subaru knows RWD is more fun

[Scapegoat]

surprised to not see this posted yet.

http://www.subaru-global.com/boxersports.html

[Ender81]

I think my garage needs more rwd lol. (ok so the bug is rwd but whatever)

[jpalamar]

So let me get this right... Mustang V6 beats STi on track. Scuby copies Mustang on front motor/rear drive car. Now that Scuby will not drive good in the 2 snow storms a year we get what will people argue now?

[Ender81]

So let me get this right... Mustang V6 beats STi on track. Scuby copies Mustang on front motor/rear drive car. Now that Scuby will not drive good in the 2 snow storms a year we get what will people argue now?

Subaru copies mustang on front motor rwd?? You mean copied the Model-T right cause that's hardly a Mustang original lol.

All joking aside this car has been in the rumor mill for years it's the joint project with Toyota. So back when the V6 Mustang was still losing :-p

[DownforceTom]

Can I get an awd mustang, please? That would be rad.

[Supraholic]

So let me get this right... Mustang V6 beats STi on track. Scuby copies Mustang on front motor/rear drive car. Now that Scuby will not drive good in the 2 snow storms a year we get what will people argue now?

This post clear states and confirms what your avatar insinuates.

First get your facts straight, then post. V6 mustang against a WRX, NOT a STi.

[Scapegoat]

This post clear states and confirms what your avatar insinuates.

First get your facts straight, then post. V6 mustang against a WRX, NOT a STi.

no, it was against an STi http://www.caranddriver.com/features/10q4/lightning_lap_2011-feature/track_map_3a_vir_track_map_and_lightning_lap_2011_ sector_times_page_7

oh... in case you need it...

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/gallery370/photo_87/4014785-1-eng-US/overall_0.jpg

by more than a second!

[Scapegoat]

Can I get an awd mustang, please? That would be rad.

i made one in forza 2 because i suck at racing games. it was amazing... i want one in real life...

[Ender81]

Maybe the turbocharged mustang with awd? lol

[Scapegoat]

Maybe the turbocharged mustang with awd? lol

lol... tauras sho w/ a mustang body? gimmie!!

[Scapegoat]

in case you missed it. since you weren't paying any attention at all in the other thread

This post clear states and confirms what your avatar insinuates.

First get your facts straight, then post. V6 mustang against a WRX, NOT a STi.

no, it was against an STi http://www.caranddriver.com/features/10q4/lightning_lap_2011-feature/track_map_3a_vir_track_map_and_lightning_lap_2011_ sector_times_page_7

oh... in case you need it...

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/gallery370/photo_87/4014785-1-eng-US/overall_0.jpg

by more than a second!

[Ender81]

lol... tauras sho w/ a mustang body? gimmie!!

I wonder how well swap would work...hmmmmm :devil:

[Scapegoat]

someone bred a lambo and mustang... so i'm sure it's possible with enough fabrication and money. An awd turbo mustang would be amazing. sadly on the sho platform it'd be slower and heavier.

http://www.greatlakes4x4.com/showthread.php?t=66954

if only the rear still looked like a mustang...

and then there is this

http://hooniverse.com/2009/12/14/the-ferguson-mustang-ff-awd-and-a-427/

[Supraholic]

no, it was against an STi http://www.caranddriver.com/features/10q4/lightning_lap_2011-feature/track_map_3a_vir_track_map_and_lightning_lap_2011_ sector_times_page_7

oh... in case you need it...

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/gallery370/photo_87/4014785-1-eng-US/overall_0.jpg

by more than a second!

Daaaaaaamn! I guess I'm the one with the wrong facts. Thanks for the link.

I wonder what the conditions of the laps were (driver, temp, same day?, etc)... It just doesn't make sense that a lighter AWD car and well performer like the STI was slower.

[Ender81]

someone bred a lambo and mustang... so i'm sure it's possible with enough fabrication and money. An awd turbo mustang would be amazing. sadly on the sho platform it'd be slower and heavier.

http://www.greatlakes4x4.com/showthread.php?t=66954

if only the rear still looked like a mustang...

and then there is this

http://hooniverse.com/2009/12/14/the-ferguson-mustang-ff-awd-and-a-427/

I don't like the back of the Lambo mix but that second one is hot. Rally-Stang....just throwing it out there lol.

[Scapegoat]

Daaaaaaamn! I guess I'm the one with the wrong facts. Thanks for the link.

I wonder what the conditions of the laps were (driver, temp, same day?, etc)... It just doesn't make sense that a lighter AWD car and well performer like the STI was slower.

suspension set up. power to weight ratio. factory options, etc

[Reese]

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/gallery370/photo_87/4014785-1-eng-US/overall_0.jpg


omg VIR is one of my favortite tracks to be on!

[Scapegoat]

it's a shame the rx-8 r3 came in so far down on the list. so much for being an awesome track car

[jrkal]

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/gallery370/photo_87/4014785-1-eng-US/overall_0.jpg


omg VIR is one of my favortite tracks to be on!

Its only a matter of time before you're back in the game

[Ender81]

ok ok come on back on topic rwd subaru lol. The Toyota concept didn't look bad so hopefully Subaru doesn't screw it up too much.

http://images.freshnessmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/02-toyota-ft-86-concept-press-570x379.jpg

[jrkal]

Yeah that was Toyota's chance to stop being a pussy company since the days of the Supra and AWD turbo Celicas, too bad they scrapped it

[Ender81]

It hasn't been scrapped actually, it's still coming. Toyota released a teaser for the car and it's being shown alongside the Subaru at the Geneva show next week.

[jrkal]

It hasn't been scrapped actually, it's still coming. Toyota released a teaser for the car and it's being shown alongside the Subaru at the Geneva show next week.

Ooh damn! I gotta keep up to date

[morla]

toyota is releasing it as a scion model if I remember correctly:roll:

hopefully not...

[laser92dsm]

Also I could have sworn I read somewhere that the toyota concept was going to come to life as a scion.

Edit: Morla beat me to it. lol

[JB'sLGT]

If this isn't turbo charged, it's all kinds of fail.

[jrkal]

If this isn't turbo charged, it's all kinds of fail.

I'm thinking 6cyl NA

Hopefully not a hybrid

[laser92dsm]

I'm thinking 6cyl NA

:bigeek: That needs to have some kind of forced induction.

[Ender81]

Well this is the official image from Toyota and that is not a Scion badge
http://autocars17.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Toyota-FT-86-II-Concept-teaser.jpg

[jrkal]

:bigeek: That needs to have some kind of forced induction.

The only engine info I could find was the 2.0L Boxer engine plan that had been announced for some time now...That is also NA

I don't know why but I just see this car coming out something like a 35/70Z and an NA 6 cyl

[laser92dsm]

I don't know why but I just see this car coming out something like a 35/70Z and an NA 6 cyl

I would be really interested to see how its performs.
I would also like it to be a straight 6 like the 2j.

[bugeye1257]

heres a thread about it for more info kinda
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2117582

[oneday]

The only engine info I could find was the 2.0L Boxer engine plan that had been announced for some time now...That is also NA

I don't know why but I just see this car coming out something like a 35/70Z and an NA 6 cyl

I would be really interested to see how its performs.
I would also like it to be a straight 6 like the 2j.

Not going to happen. This car was a joint design by Subaru and Toyota (Toyota is part owner of FHI)...they designed it specifically to use the 4-cylinder Subaru boxer. There are rumors of both the 2.0T and the 2.5T in the Subaru version and the 2.0T and 2.5NA in the Scion/Toyota.

[oneday]

it's a shame the rx-8 r3 came in so far down on the list. so much for being an awesome track car

VIR Grand West isn't really the RX-8's type of course. The RX-8 would need more torque and horsepower in too many places to be competitive with these other cars. On tracks with less elevation change and more sweeping corners I think the RX-8 would fair better.

As for the WRX and STI ... they simply just don't change directions or transition as well as the Mustang (with either motor). Not to mention Subarus are pretty heavy cars with inadequate brakes for their weight and power [I know the V6 'Stang is heavier, but it has bigger brake rotors to help with heat dissipation].

[Chris B.]

I wonder what the conditions of the laps were (driver, temp, same day?, etc)... It just doesn't make sense that a lighter AWD car and well performer like the STI was slower.

All the cars were drivin on the same day by the same group of drivers. Also, the Mustang was bouncing off the 114 MPH speed limiter for 15 seconds of each lap. Imagine how much faster if would have been if it was accelerating for those 15 seconds per lap. The V6 Mustang also has nearly 50/50 weight balance.

[Chris B.]

surprised to not see this posted yet.

http://www.subaru-global.com/boxersports.html

I've been hearing about this car for years. When will if finally see production?

We need mroe RWD Subarus, other than Ben's wagon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1JgWCUBUrE

[UnderPoweredRS]

The good thing is it's going to be using a Subaru power-train so it should be easily swappable to any other Subaru motor you'd like. I say bring it with a 1.8l boxer get cheap insurance and swap it with what ever gives you a boner.

[Chris B.]

The good thing is it's going to be using a Subaru power-train so it should be easily swappable to any other Subaru motor you'd like. I say bring it with a 1.8l boxer get cheap insurance and swap it with what ever gives you a boner.

LS9?

http://www.myadultimages.com/images/emoticons/sex/erection.gif

[UnderPoweredRS]

LS9?

http://www.myadultimages.com/images/emoticons/sex/erection.gif

anythings possible but other Subaru motors would be cake to swap.

[DaveSTi]

Needs a V6 to truly compete with the Genesis/370z.

A turbo 4 swapped in or from the factory would be nice to compete against the 2.0T model.

[Foolinaround]

I remember reading about it possibly being hybrid or incorporating some hybrid technology,ill have to look for the link later (On the yota side of the build)

[maxpowr]

rwd coupe with subaru cross memeber...i'd test drive it...been waiting for a new subaru coupe since 2000. subbie 6 speed? doubt it. seems like a stript down concept.

how many of us have wondered what a fox body dropt on a subaru chassis/drivetrain would look/drive like...surprised nobody ever did it.

[itwillboost]

I have been excited for this. My friend is planning on getting this and I want the ft-86.

[Supraru]

Rwd coupe....great, fun, fail. The final details aren't released yet obviously. But if this subaru version is released with the n/a 175hp engine everyone can thank Toyota for ruining yet another car. This car is built off a subaru chassis and obviously is using a subaru drivetrain. The only thing that is from toyota technology is the suspension from what I was told. Subaru for the longest time wasn't sure if they wanted to go to rwd or stick with awd. Looks like the rwd won out, great! Then there was an issue because Subaru wants this thing to run the turbo engine. Now apparently toyota is pitching a fit because they don't want subaru to produce a model that is faster and more sporty for obvious reasons that their model won't sell as well if you've got a 265-300 hp counter part. The spy photo's with the "cover up" all over showed a hood scoop which was great but the most recent rendering picture released for the auto show does not show a top mount.

I'm sure the car will look good and be fun but if I was looking for a new car and saw a rwd coupe with 175hp and a 265 awd sedan that is easily modded I'd take the best bang for the buck. Please subaru put in the turbo engine!!!

[Scapegoat]

whats so fail? with the toyota suspension and RWD maybe this thing will beat the v6 mustang on the track

[Supraru]

whats so fail? with the toyota suspension and RWD maybe this thing will beat the v6 mustang on the track

Not with 175 hp to the crank.

[marshallpre1]

Rwd coupe....great, fun, fail. The final details aren't released yet obviously. But if this subaru version is released with the n/a 175hp engine everyone can thank Toyota for ruining yet another car. This car is built off a subaru chassis and obviously is using a subaru drivetrain. The only thing that is from toyota technology is the suspension from what I was told. Subaru for the longest time wasn't sure if they wanted to go to rwd or stick with awd. Looks like the rwd won out, great! Then there was an issue because Subaru wants this thing to run the turbo engine. Now apparently toyota is pitching a fit because they don't want subaru to produce a model that is faster and more sporty for obvious reasons that their model won't sell as well if you've got a 265-300 hp counter part. The spy photo's with the "cover up" all over showed a hood scoop which was great but the most recent rendering picture released for the auto show does not show a top mount.

I'm sure the car will look good and be fun but if I was looking for a new car and saw a rwd coupe with 175hp and a 265 awd sedan that is easily modded I'd take the best bang for the buck. Please subaru put in the turbo engine!!!

Taking what you've said in other threads-

Cliff notes: Subaru is the greatest car company ever.

[R22B]

I think it could be fun if it was going up against the Miata for N/A. I'd still like to see a turbo or H6 option...

[Supraru]

Taking what you've said in other threads-

Cliff notes: Subaru is the greatest car company ever.

Ah...so what you're saying is you can't read? That is very far from what I said. Nice attempt at humor though.

Afterthought- in other threads I also never stated Subaru is the best. So its not just this thread you can't read. You should try hooked on phonics.

[Spocknasty]

RWD? Weak. There are more than enough decent RWD cars out there right now. A small fun AWD car needs to come out as there are definitely a shortage of those around.

[mcperson2k]

whats so fail? with the toyota suspension and RWD maybe this thing will beat the v6 mustang on the track

:lol:

[Zdrummer15]

RWD? Weak. There are more than enough decent RWD cars out there right now. A small fun AWD car needs to come out as there are definitely a shortage of those around.

I agree. Between the Mustangs, Camaros, Genesis, 370z, etc. there are plenty of good 2 door rwd options out there. It will be a tough market to compete in. Look at all the turbo 4 awd cars out there though. They're all 4 doors so a coupe would've been a nice change if you ask me. I drive a 2 door, awd, turbocharged 4 cylinder and I feel like there hasn't really been anything similar since the DSM.

[nuTinmuch]

I agree. Between the Mustangs, Camaros, Genesis, 370z, etc. there are plenty of good 2 door rwd options out there. It will be a tough market to compete in. Look at all the turbo 4 awd cars out there though. They're all 4 doors so a coupe would've been a nice change if you ask me. I drive a 2 door, awd, turbocharged 4 cylinder and I feel like there hasn't really been anything similar since the DSM.

Plenty? Not enough, imo.

I want every company to have a RWD coupe. I love seeing Hyundai getting in on it, the new 5.0 kicking everyone's ass, etc.

All it means is more options for us -- and better performing cars.

edit: also to the people complaining about this not being AWD... really? This isn't supposed to be an Impreza coupe.

[Scapegoat]

just build it

http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/text.html

[Supraru]

Plenty? Not enough, imo.

I want every company to have a RWD coupe. I love seeing Hyundai getting in on it, the new 5.0 kicking everyone's ass, etc.

All it means is more options for us -- and better performing cars.

edit: also to the people complaining about this not being AWD... really? This isn't supposed to be an Impreza coupe.

I just want it to have some nice power. Guess we'll see when it comes out.

[Chris B.]

just build it

http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/text.html

Souds just like a 914 with a WRX motor swap with a more modern frame instead fo needing a cage.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

Mark my words- This will become one of the most popular tuner cars. The "new" 240 if you will.

RWD, Turbo, and Inexpensive- the trifecta. Congrats to Toyota for finally building something worth driving again.

[Supraru]

Mark my words- This will become one of the most popular tuner cars. The "new" 240 if you will.

RWD, Turbo, and Inexpensive- the trifecta. Congrats to Toyota for finally building something worth driving again.

Uhh hate to burst your bubble but toyota is running the non turbo subaru engine with no intentions of turbo charging it.

[itwillboost]

Uhh hate to burst your bubble but toyota is running the non turbo subaru engine with no intentions of turbo charging it.

They do have plans of it being turbo lol, where do you get your info ?

[Supraru]

They do have plans of it being turbo lol, where do you get your info ?

From subaru new model update. When talking to the instructor I asked if this new car was going to have the turbo engine. He told me toyota does not want the turbo model in their vehicle and was basically "fighting" with subaru since they want the turbo fb in there. This would be the first I've heard they want a turbo model. Where are you getting your info from? I hope it's not off a toyota message board.

[Zdrummer15]

Plenty? Not enough, imo.

I want every company to have a RWD coupe. I love seeing Hyundai getting in on it, the new 5.0 kicking everyone's ass, etc.

All it means is more options for us -- and better performing cars.

edit: also to the people complaining about this not being AWD... really? This isn't supposed to be an Impreza coupe.

Okay, maybe I shouldn't have used the word "plenty." It is always great to see competition because it only makes the cars better. My point is that there aren't any offerings in the market the car would fit in if it was awd so I'd rather see it be that. As much as I love seeing all these great rwd, 2 door cars out there, I'd like to see others types of performance car markets grow to this point as well.

[Supraholic]

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1294&d=1298902040

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1282&d=1298899538

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1277&d=1298899483.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1272&d=1298899483

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1278&d=1298899483

[Foolinaround]

Game,blouses. (http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2011/02/subaru-rear-drive-sports-car-actually-all-wheel-drive.html)

Seriously,its AWD,so chill out subie heads.

[Supraholic]

Game,blouses. (http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2011/02/subaru-rear-drive-sports-car-actually-all-wheel-drive.html)

Seriously,its AWD,so chill out subie heads.

It was hard to see, but I didn't see any front axles.. Anyways, it would cost too much to rearrange the config and make it AWD; if that happens, the price is gonna go up!

I hope they have this at the NYIAS this year!!!

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1288&d=1298901951


That Rear end and exhaust pipes are looking pretty sexy!

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1290&d=1298901951

[oneday]

Game,blouses. (http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2011/02/subaru-rear-drive-sports-car-actually-all-wheel-drive.html)

Seriously,its AWD,so chill out subie heads.

From the link you provided ...:
UPDATE: Upon inspection the vehicle, it most certainly does not have front driveshafts and is a RWD platform, leaving only the question as to why Subaru’s plaque says it does. Sorry to get your hopes up, you fans of Symmetrical AWD.

It's not AWD, so freak out subie heads?

[Foolinaround]

From that same article

"As though the driveshaft weren’t enough, on a display plaque next to a scale model of the architecture it goes so far as to call the vehicle a “rear-wheel drive sports car” and then in the very next sentence states that it features “Subaru’s signature Symmetrical AWD system.” No wonder we were confused."

What the hell?

[Supraru]

From that same article

"As though the driveshaft weren’t enough, on a display plaque next to a scale model of the architecture it goes so far as to call the vehicle a “rear-wheel drive sports car” and then in the very next sentence states that it features “Subaru’s signature Symmetrical AWD system.” No wonder we were confused."

What the hell?

Did you read the update or even look at the picture? Going by that it's definitely rwd. I also see that it has dual avcs which is nice to see. Still can't tell it it's a turbo motor or not.

[Foolinaround]

I read the article,didnt skim through the pictures. I just saw someone post it on my feed this morning on facebook so i read through and posted.

[Supraru]

I read the article,didnt skim through the pictures. I just saw someone post it on my feed this morning on facebook so i read through and posted.

UPDATE: Upon inspection the vehicle, it most certainly does not have front driveshafts and is a RWD platform, leaving only the question as to why Subaru’s plaque says it does. Sorry to get your hopes up, you fans of Symmetrical AWD.

[Foolinaround]

UPDATE: Upon inspection the vehicle, it most certainly does not have front driveshafts and is a RWD platform, leaving only the question as to why Subaru’s plaque says it does. Sorry to get your hopes up, you fans of Symmetrical AWD.

See bold?

[marshallpre1]

ummm... I'm getting a semi....

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1324&d=1298911338
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1326&d=1298911338
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1327&d=1298911338
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1328&d=1298911338
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1329&d=1298911338
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1331&d=1298911368
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1337&d=1298911368
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1339&d=1298911368
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1290&d=1298901951
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1287&d=1298901951
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1291&d=1298901963

[Supraholic]

Oooohhhh come on!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Supraru]

See bold?

So what you're telling me is you completely disregarded the rest of that statement that isn't in bold that states there are no front axles and had a rwd set up? Makes total sense to pay attention to to a plaque with writing on it over looking at the product to see what it actually is.:roll:

[Foolinaround]

Exactly. I'm glad you understand my reasoning.

[Supraru]

Exactly. I'm glad you understand my reasoning.

Tst at it's smartest. :lol: at least you realize it.

[Supraholic]

I showed the pics to the wife to which she replied - "WOW!!!! looks sexy!!!!! I want one!" So maybe we'll get one version of each LOL...

[Foolinaround]

Totally bro,you're definitely the superior mind. Give me lessons on how to be as awesome as you?

[jrkal]

Damn, looking good from what we can tell..

[marshallpre1]

Totally bro,you're definitely the superior mind. Give me lessons on how to be as awesome as you?

I, as well as many others here, have just stopped listening and responding to him. It's better for your health

[Supraru]

Totally bro,you're definitely the superior mind. Give me lessons on how to be as awesome as you?

Well lesson one: when there aren't axles going from the trans to the front wheels it is not awd. I'm sorry that you can not tell the difference unless someone posts it on a forum.

[Foolinaround]

I remember there being a way to block people's post from view,I just don't know it. But im sure supraru does,cause hes awesome.

[92awdtsi]

whats so fail? with the toyota suspension and RWD maybe this thing will beat the v6 mustang on the track

quoted for lolz. Maybe subaru will finally make a car that will compete with the N/A 6cyl mustang.

[Khellen]

quoted for lolz. Maybe subaru will finally make a car that will compete with the N/A 6cyl mustang.

http://storage.1337productions.com/uploads/beating-a-dead-horse.gif

So wait....this is the 2nd FT-86 concept? Really? They need another? The first was great...did I miss something?

Maybe the new Subaru is 100% RWD then slips to 50/50 like the GTR or something? That would fufill the "AWD & RWD" description.

[Supraru]

I remember there being a way to block people's post from view,I just don't know it. But im sure supraru does,cause hes awesome.

It's in your user cp. :wink:

[Supraru]

I, as well as many others here, have just stopped listening and responding to him. It's better for your health

Yeah.....damn me for being right. I guess that's the way things work here, don't listen to the people who are right. Good luck.

[Ender81]

I don't think it was you being right or wrong that he had a problem with. I think it was your usual delivery.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2011/03/12-toyota-ft-86-ii-live-geneva-2011.jpg
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2011/03/22-toyota-ft-86-ii-live-geneva-2011.jpg
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2011/03/33-toyota-ft-86-ii-live-geneva-2011.jpg

To say I want it but be an understatement.

[jpalamar]

Other then the wheels, that car looks really good.

[Ender81]

Yeah I don't like the rims either. I think they are there to show off the rotors lol.

[Chris B.]

Yeah I don't like the rims either. I think they are there to show off the rotors lol.

Big brakes. :banana::rock::supz: Lets hope that's standard.

[marshallpre1]

Love the front. Rear just looks a little too aggressive. Nice looking car. I wish they divulged the engine info.

[Supraru]

Love the front. Rear just looks a little too aggressive. Nice looking car. I wish they divulged the engine info.

It's the new fb subaru na engine as previously stated. Only difference is it probably is running the dual avcs. For the most part you're looking around 175 hp and around the same in tq with not much moddability.

[Scapegoat]

hey everyone... looks like toyota and subaru...

http://mychinaconnection.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/dropped-the-ball1.jpg

http://www.subaru-global.com/about/motorshow/ms/2011geneva/boxer/index.html

2.0 na

[Ender81]

I would prefer to see an FI engine but I am going to hold judgement until they release the numbers and details.

[DaveSTi]

I doubt the Subaru looks as good as the Toyota judging by the spy shots and the model shown.

[Scapegoat]

I doubt the Subaru looks as good as the Toyota judging by the spy shots and the model shown.

have to agree. looks like an econo coupe... unless of course the model is just for showing off the overchromed drivetrain that won't come like that

[Ender81]

I love Subaru but I really think at this point all they could really do is screw up how this looks lol. I may be wrong but I doubt it.

[Supraru]

hey everyone... looks like toyota and subaru...

http://mychinaconnection.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/dropped-the-ball1.jpg

http://www.subaru-global.com/about/motorshow/ms/2011geneva/boxer/index.html

2.0 na

Link is messed up. At least I don't think it's just my phone.

[R22B]

Link is messed up. At least I don't think it's just my phone.

The link worked for me and it says 2.0 N/A... Boo

[Supraru]

The link worked for me and it says 2.0 N/A... Boo

Still not working for me. My guess is there is flash involved. Lol. Forgot about the 2.0. So it looks like Toyota won out and these cars will be slow as balls.

[Supraru]

I love Subaru but I really think at this point all they could really do is screw up how this looks lol. I may be wrong but I doubt it.

But as always it's easy to overlook the ugliness when there is a good amount of power or easily can make power.

[Scapegoat]

link is to a flash site

[Supraholic]

Not sure if you guys have seen these. Scroll down past the first 20 or so pics.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=983

The more I look at it from different angles, the more I like it!


So far, the 2.0 N/A has been confirmed for Europe. We don't know what the US is gonna get. Rumors are there will be a turbo trim. N/A should be right around 210-220hp, turbo around 305.

[DriftyMcNeon]

Looks like all this time swapping my 240 was wasted.

Time to get me into a Toyobaru!

[Ender81]

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-U-VGJeXvQfI/TWuk03HWCJI/AAAAAAAATgk/iRPCWA6LHnA/s400/Subaru+Boxer+Sports+Car+Architecture+%25282%2529.J PG

Subaru solves issue of blindspots?

[DaveSTi]

^ that pic reminds me of a ford fusion.

[marshallpre1]

Not sure if you guys have seen these. Scroll down past the first 20 or so pics.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=983

The more I look at it from different angles, the more I like it!


So far, the 2.0 N/A has been confirmed for Europe. We don't know what the US is gonna get. Rumors are there will be a turbo trim. N/A should be right around 210-220hp, turbo around 305.

Hope you're right man. Turbo anything is good for me :)

This angle looks so good

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1417&d=1298965011

[Khellen]

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1374&d=1298964808

Hide yo kids, Hide yo wife.

I for one like the new celica....errrr.

[jrkal]

Damn this has potential if it is turbo'd USDM.

Oh and the rear reminds me of a 370

[mcperson2k]

How much will it be? I like it.

[Scapegoat]

I for one like the new celica....errrr.

hmmm... i see it

http://www.celica.net/celicapics/celica_home.jpg

[Ender81]

I don't care if they call it a Celica, they could call it dog **** for all I care just make sure it still looks like that lol.

[Khellen]

hmmm... i see it

http://www.celica.net/celicapics/celica_home.jpg

This is probably a good guess at what the production car will look like....haha

All kidding aside. That car is gorgeous. If it's released when my accord's loan is up in 2013...I'd buy one. :)

....assuming it dosent have a price tag of $30k.

[jrkal]

You can probably bet on a price tag of 28-30k if not more,.

[marshallpre1]

This is probably a good guess at what the production car will look like....haha

All kidding aside. That car is gorgeous. If it's released when my accord's loan is up in 2013...I'd buy one. :)

....assuming it dosent have a price tag of $30k.

It's supposed to be a Genesis coupe competitor, so I would imagine that it should be around the same price. The base model is probably $23K ish and the highend will probably approach $30K. For one thing, I can bet that the base hp of this car will be around 200ish, maybe 220 hp. It just doesn't make sense to have it make the same hp as the current tc, which is 180hp.

[Supraru]

Thought it was supposed to be low 20 range

[RWDTurbo149]

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2011/01/toyota-ft-86-could-get-305-hp-subaru-wrx-sti-engine.html

STI variant?! ^^^

doubt it. And i don't doubt that toyota will kill off most of the things which make this car look awesome when they move to production

[marshallpre1]

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2011/01/toyota-ft-86-could-get-305-hp-subaru-wrx-sti-engine.html

STI variant?! ^^^

doubt it. And i don't doubt that toyota will kill off most of the things which make this car look awesome when they move to production

I'd reserve judgment until the production model hits.

[Chris B.]

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2011/01/toyota-ft-86-could-get-305-hp-subaru-wrx-sti-engine.html

STI variant?! ^^^

doubt it. And i don't doubt that toyota will kill off most of the things which make this car look awesome when they move to production

If they do make the 305 HP motor available, it might even be faster than a secretary's car!

[Zdrummer15]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6i1ejgwqPY&feature=feedu
The video says it should be significantly cheaper then a 370Z. That is cool and all, but I'd be willing to bet that also means it won't perform like a 370Z.

[Supraholic]

http://www.insideline.com/subaru/subaru-rwd-sports-car-benchmarks-porsche-caymans-performance.html

[Supraru]

I sure hope they turbo it. This is the specs from the na 2.0 that at least appears will be in these cars at first.

While the new, more efficient unit was designed with an emphasis on improved low- and mid-range power delivery, the Forester we drove was still in need of some decent revs to get around briskly. Its full 148 horsepower hits at a fairly average 6,000 rpm, and torque (146 pound-feet) doesn't peak until 4,200 rpm.

148 crank hp and 146 ft lbs of tq really doesn't seem like it will sell any cars. At least in subaru spy shots they have a hood scoop. I don't see any evidence that this toyota version has an intercooler anywhere. It will be a better looking slower rwd version of the old celica. Doesn't really seem like a step forward at all.

[Supraholic]

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/6640/ft86ii2.png

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/2408/ft86iirear.jpg

[Supraru]

Looks great. Hopefully it doesn't take 30 seconds to redline first gear. Lol

[WolfsFang]

back looks like a 350/370z

[Khellen]

Too bad production models never look like their concept counterparts. :(

[DaveSTi]

Too bad production models never look like their concept counterparts. :(

Damn safety standards.:lol:

[Khellen]

Damn safety standards.:lol:

If only the world was full of cotton candy, puppy dogs, and rainbows we wouldent need safety standards. :(

It always makes me cringe when manufacturers release amazing concepts but then the production models look...ehhhh. Lets hope that isnt the case.

[Supraholic]

http://i.imgur.com/EMKng.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/dOEC5.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/7RdcY.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/fcvh5.jpg

[SkaSto]

Both the toyota and the subaur intrest me... i might be trading for that!

[Supraholic]

http://www.youtube.com/v/7cAzZFBqfZM

[endless]

Was stated above that the rear looks like a 350/370z, but I'm going to lean more towards a cross between a BMW Z4/6 coupe, and a audi s5 coupe for sure.. The front end, total body curviture has that s15/supra timeless look to it. I'd be down for one of the yotas, especially in the 20k price range.

[Supraholic]

I think it looks almost identical to the Toyota 5000GT concept that came out in 2004. Sorry for the bad pic, however, you can see the bulge over the fenders, the squared corners on the q-panel windows, etc. Very Very similar; almost as if they took that concept and changed the front & rear ends.

http://supraholics.com/supra/Automobile_Revealed_May_2004_cropped.jpg

[Supraholic]

Exclusive: Behind the scenes

http://blog.toyota.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/img_5615.jpg

Click here to go to source. (http://blog.toyota.co.uk/exclusive-behind-the-scenes-with-the-toyota-ft-86-ii-sports-concept)

[R22B]

Exclusive: Behind the scenes

http://blog.toyota.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/img_5615.jpg

Click here to go to source. (http://blog.toyota.co.uk/exclusive-behind-the-scenes-with-the-toyota-ft-86-ii-sports-concept)

That looks like some hot wet sloppy lesbian sex. DO WANT!

[jjm4life]

reserving comment until a production model is ready.
do want rwd turbo and under 3k lbs. i dont think thats asking for too much

[DaBombDiggidy]

20k and no turbo? hmm nvm ill take a genesis over this turd any day.

[mcperson2k]

20k and no turbo? hmm nvm ill take a genesis over this turd any day.

is 20k a lot for a car?

[Supraholic]

I put a little chart together:

http://supraholics.com/mypics/temp/ft86_genesis_comparo.jpg

[Ender81]

Really digging the chart lol

[Khellen]

I put a little chart together:


The estimated curb weight of the FT-86 is 2800-3000 lbs? Somehow I don't see that happening.

[Ender81]

Curb weight of my WRX is supposedly 3085 give or take (taken from edmunds I thought it was 3200 myself) either way 3,000 shouldn't be that tough of a goal.

[Supraholic]

The estimated curb weight of the FT-86 is 2800-3000 lbs? Somehow I don't see that happening.

This car is supposed to weight approx. 150-200lbs LESS than the current Scion Tc which weights 3086lb.

Also keep in mind that this car is SMALL... This car is 48.19 inches tall. Just to put it into perspective, the Ferrari 458 Italia is 47.8 inches tall. The Lexus LFA is 48 flat. Even though this car has a pretty much perfect wheelbase, is also going to be pretty short.

My old 88 Corolla GTS is only 2400lbs and has the heavy old tech iron block, steel bumper supports that weight a ton and heavy suspension components.

The Toyobaru, with aluminum bumper support, aluminum suspension parts, Subaru's light boxer engine, etc should be pretty light... The only downside is new federal regulations which require all kinds of gadgets to be standard like higher doors, air bags, etc...

To be honest, this car will probably weight about 100lbs more than the smaller miata. The miata has a shorter wheel base and smaller front and rear track, but very similar overall length.

Here are some renditions based on given measurement:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/wcbjr/compare.jpg

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=101&d=1255296097


Regardless... and you can quote me on this, this car WILL be the next driftking! LOL

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/RockMannX/tsuchiya.jpg

[R22B]

Wow... the overlay with the hatch STI really puts it into perspective.

[RuhRohh]

as much as people love RWD, i still wish subaru would give the market an option for the AWD.
thats where subarus made its name by producing a full line up of cars with the AWD. without it i feel like its just another car entering the mass production market

[Silver_2001_C5]

So let me get this right... Mustang V6 beats STi on track. Scuby copies Mustang on front motor/rear drive car. Now that Scuby will not drive good in the 2 snow storms a year we get what will people argue now?

ive seen awd buru's off the road, laying in a ditch during the snowstorms we get. I dont think awd/rwd really matters with people like that behind the wheel lol

[Supraholic]

as much as people love RWD, i still wish subaru would give the market an option for the AWD.
thats where subarus made its name by producing a full line up of cars with the AWD. without it i feel like its just another car entering the mass production market

What's the point of AWD anyways? You like carrying dead weight around? For the 2-5 snowstorms that we get around here, is not worth carrying AWD around all year round. I'm a huge rally fan and love AWD for that application, but what's the use if you only use such few times?

I think is time for Subaru to have a true sports car...RWD!

[Supraru]

What's the point of AWD anyways? You like carrying dead weight around? For the 2-5 snowstorms that we get around here, is not worth carrying AWD around all year round. I'm a huge rally fan and love AWD for that application, but what's the use if you only use such few times?

I think is time for Subaru to have a true sports car...RWD!

http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/8/4/84127_ORIG-zing_.gif

[Subie_sleeper]

What's the point of AWD anyways? You like carrying dead weight around? For the 2-5 snowstorms that we get around here, is not worth carrying AWD around all year round. I'm a huge rally fan and love AWD for that application, but what's the use if you only use such few times?

I think is time for Subaru to have a true sports car...RWD!

AWD makes a substantial difference in the rain too. ;)

Pretty much any situation on the road where a loss of traction can occur.

I can see RWD > AWD on a road course..... but in the real world, I prefer to have power to all four wheels.

[Silver_2001_C5]

it might help in the rain if you want to race somebody lol. If the person drives safely in the rain, i cant see how awd would make a substantial difference. If you get into a hydroplaning situation, it wont matter if you have fwd,rwd,or awd. At that point, the tires are not touching the pavement anymore and it if its bad enough, the car will go wherever it wants to lol.

[twastheglow]

All this leg humping with AWD vs. RWD is pointless. It all boils down to personal preference. There are merits to both.

[Supraru]

AWD makes a substantial difference in the rain too. ;)

Pretty much any situation on the road where a loss of traction can occur.

I can see RWD > AWD on a road course..... but in the real world, I prefer to have power to all four wheels.

Don't feed the troll. We all know subaru is only market for the Philadelphia market.....:rotfl:

[Subie_sleeper]

it might help in the rain if you want to race somebody lol. If the person drives safely in the rain, i cant see how awd would make a substantial difference. If you get into a hydroplaning situation, it wont matter if you have fwd,rwd,or awd. At that point, the tires are not touching the pavement anymore and it if its bad enough, the car will go wherever it wants to lol.

I disagree. An AWD car has twice as much ability to retain traction.

I am NOT saying that an AWD car can't hydroplane. I'm saying that in a situation where a person who is driving reasonably has to make a panic maneuver (on ANY surface) an AWD car is more controllable.

Here's an example I see almost EVERY time I take a customer out on a test drive in the rain. The thick white lines that are painted at traffic intersections get REALLY slick in the rain. There is an intersection that my test drive loop crosses that has a stop on a decent incline. Turning right onto Tilman Ave from Cetronia Rd. for those who know the area. When we catch that light, 90% of the time when it turns green a FWD or RWD car pulling out from the stop breaks a tire loose. I'm just using this example because it's something I see on a fairly regular basis.This can also make merging into traffic a scary situation.
At this point the two sides of the debate should just agree to disagree.
Those of us in the AWD camp KNOW we're right.
Those of you on the other side KNOW that you're right.

I'd like to grab two A4s or TTs, one with Quattro & one FWD on a rainy day & set up some cones in a parking lot for some tests. :)

[Silver_2001_C5]

Im not being for or against any drive type. You obviously prefer AWD and I do not. I dont hate AWD at all. As a matter of fact, when driving reasonably, Ive never had a problem getting traction in the rain with any vehicle that Ive owned. Cant say Ive ever came close to losing control of a car during an evasive maneuver either. I must say, I always get a kick out of it when 4WD and AWD vehicles are sitting in a ditch because they lost control after a lil snow :lol:

[Fujito]

lesbarus

[Supraru]

Told you not to feed the troll.

[Supraholic]

We all need training wheels on our bikes when we're starting out.

As I said earlier, rally is one of my favorite forms of motorsports and for that or any application similar to that, nothing but AWD would do for me. For daily driving and even spirited driving around our area, base on the amount of snow, rain, etc, that we get around our area (Stats here) (http://www.theweathernetwork.com/statistics/C02374/uspa0025?ref=topnav_weather_statistics) is not worth carrying all the extra weight... Plus I like letting the tires break loose every once in a while.

[Supraru]

We all need training wheels on our bikes when we're starting out.

As I said earlier, rally is one of my favorite forms of motorsports and for that or any application similar to that, nothing but AWD would do for me. For daily driving and even spirited driving around our area, base on the amount of snow, rain, etc, that we get around our area (Stats here) (http://www.theweathernetwork.com/statistics/C02374/uspa0025?ref=topnav_weather_statistics) is not worth carrying all the extra weight... Plus I like letting the tires break loose every once in a while.

My car is 2700 lbs. The extra weight clearly doesn't bother me like it bothers you. Plus it's more impressive to spin 4 tires over two.

[Supraholic]

http://toyobaru.net/gallery/data/503/medium/Subaru_216a_Illustration.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-V8zm9UBa8Ls/TZjXqE_wwkI/AAAAAAAATwk/YRF5D9ihqU0/s1600/Subaru+%25E3%2582%25B9%25E3%2583%2590%25E3%2583%25 AB+216A+%2528FT-86%2529+1.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-NSfY2QZaJ3E/TZjXuc75mwI/AAAAAAAATwo/Ojw6Dd7gS8I/s1600/Subaru+%25E3%2582%25B9%25E3%2583%2590%25E3%2583%25 AB+216A+%2528FT-86%2529+2.jpg

[DaveSTi]

I disagree. An AWD car has twice as much ability to retain traction.

I am NOT saying that an AWD car can't hydroplane. I'm saying that in a situation where a person who is driving reasonably has to make a panic maneuver (on ANY surface) an AWD car is more controllable.

Here's an example I see almost EVERY time I take a customer out on a test drive in the rain. The thick white lines that are painted at traffic intersections get REALLY slick in the rain. There is an intersection that my test drive loop crosses that has a stop on a decent incline. Turning right onto Tilman Ave from Cetronia Rd. for those who know the area. When we catch that light, 90% of the time when it turns green a FWD or RWD car pulling out from the stop breaks a tire loose. I'm just using this example because it's something I see on a fairly regular basis.This can also make merging into traffic a scary situation.
At this point the two sides of the debate should just agree to disagree.
Those of us in the AWD camp KNOW we're right.
Those of you on the other side KNOW that you're right.

I'd like to grab two A4s or TTs, one with Quattro & one FWD on a rainy day & set up some cones in a parking lot for some tests. :)

There's way too much energy being devoted in this thread between AWD and RWD.

SportCompact Car did a test several years ago pitting the best of each drivetrain up against each other in handling tests in rain and dry. This meant skid pad, slalom, track times, g's, you name it.

The AWD won every time. There is no way easier to explain why than 4>2. There are very fast track cars with every drivetrain out there, but take a look at the absolute fastest and they're AWD. Unless banned from the event a la F1 (too fast).

There's really no debate to this, AWD has more traction under every driving scenario except for braking. All drivetrains rely on the tire compound of 4 wheels during braking.

Seriously...this argument is Car 101 basic.

There's an argument for weight and driving technique preference with each drivetrain, but you can't argue in the face of physics just because you haven't had an issue with RWD in inclimate weather. I used to own a Mustang. I drove it in PA during winters. I know RWD. It isn't nearly as good as AWD is in those conditions. If you think it is, you're lying to save face or numb to what the car is doing.

[Supraholic]

Should someone start a thread about RWD vs. AWD for those that are butt hurt?

Dave, as far as I know, AWD is not banned in F1, is just too heavy and complex to implement. I could be wrong, so if you have a link that would help. I agree with you for the most part.

[OMGz Turbo]

Should someone start a thread about RWD vs. AWD for those that are butt hurt?

Dave, as far as I know, AWD is not banned in F1, is just too heavy and complex to implement. I could be wrong, so if you have a link that would help. I agree with you for the most part.

Already is a thread somewherez.

[DaveSTi]

Should someone start a thread about RWD vs. AWD for those that are butt hurt?

Dave, as far as I know, AWD is not banned in F1, is just too heavy and complex to implement. I could be wrong, so if you have a link that would help. I agree with you for the most part.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-wheel_drive_in_Formula_One

It was too difficult to implement at the time..(1960's), but was banned anyway in 1982. It's a shame in a way, since the cars could have been even faster with modern AWD technologies.

[Godofelru]

Lol I just read that entire article and all I got from it was:

AWD cars placed terribly or quit because they drove like ass. In addition they weighed 10% more and didn't offer any real grip benefit. The wet race it did well in, but still crashed trying to drive like a hero in poor road conditions.

If I am wrong holla at me. My interpretation could be off.

[DaveSTi]

Lol I just read that entire article and all I got from it was:

AWD cars placed terribly or quit because they drove like ass. In addition they weighed 10% more and didn't offer any real grip benefit. The wet race it did well in, but still crashed trying to drive like a hero in poor road conditions.

If I am wrong holla at me. My interpretation could be off.

1960's 4WD. Offered more grip but didn't drive well and weighed more.

[Supraru]

Lol I just read that entire article and all I got from it was:

AWD cars placed terribly or quit because they drove like ass. In addition they weighed 10% more and didn't offer any real grip benefit. The wet race it did well in, but still crashed trying to drive like a hero in poor road conditions.

If I am wrong holla at me. My interpretation could be off.

What they were really trying to do was make the transition to a turbo fwd F1 car but that fell through when they realized how ridiculously stupid it was. :rotfl:

[Chris B.]

SportCompact Car did a test several years ago pitting the best of each drivetrain up against each other in handling tests in rain and dry. This meant skid pad, slalom, track times, g's, you name it.

The AWD won every time.


Was it the exact same model of car for every drivetrain cofiguration except for what wheels were driven? Same size, brand, and model of tires? Same suspension setup? etc...

[Supraru]

Was it the exact same model of car for every drivetrain cofiguration except for what wheels were driven? Same size, brand, and model of tires? Same suspension setup? etc...

I see the point you're trying to make here. I don't think there is even a car company that has the same car with a fwd, rwd, and awd set up. So really any comparison would be bogus in most eyes. I'd like to read this article he speaks of for fun.

[DaveSTi]

Article appeared back in 98 or 99, so I can't find it on the internet. It was a pretty good breakdown of different models for their drivetrains with equivalent power levels for the track times. Tires would be a great question to ask from that test, I can't remember what happened there. I'm pretty sure if the tires were all different, I woulda remembered it as a bogus test.


Oh well

[Chris B.]

I see the point you're trying to make here. I don't think there is even a car company that has the same car with a fwd, rwd, and awd set up. So really any comparison would be bogus in most eyes. I'd like to read this article he speaks of for fun.

During the 80's Chrysler had factory RWD conversion kits available for some of the FWD cars that were used in various racing series. They did their own tests on race tracks with everything being as equal as possible and found that RWD was superior to FWD of course. One of the car magazines did an article on it.

I had a relative that was an ALMS crew chief for a while and was involved in automobile racing since the 70's as both a driver and crew chief. The only real advantage he saw to AWD cars was more even tire wear in endurance racing. That lead to less handling changes over the life of the tire. The RWD cars were typically faster in lap times, except at the end of the tire's life, according to him. I've heard other drivers say similar things.

In reality 99% of the people here on this forum can't drive with enough skill to make the difference between RWD and AWD noticeable.

[DaveSTi]

http://www.autospies.com/news/What-Offers-the-Best-Performance-FWD-RWD-or-AWD-17435/

the comments to this are great.

[DaveSTi]

In reality 99% of the people here on this forum can't drive with enough skill to make the difference between RWD and AWD noticeable.

sorry man, i respect your tracking with the stang, but this is a ridiculous statement.

[fightinchunk]

clubloose was this past saturday. we spent from 11pm to 6am the night before turning a saabaru into a rwd drift car. hearing the boxer rumble as it went sideways was awesome to say the least.

next up:r200 welded diff, modify steering knuckles for added angle, and an actual proper tune instead of a 20g base map.

[Zdrummer15]

In reality 99% of the people here on this forum can't drive with enough skill to make the difference between RWD and AWD noticeable.

I would say it's the opposite. The average driver is the one who will benefit from awd more than the experienced and skilled racer. Driving an awd car hard through a corner is a lot more forgiving to someone who doesn't know the limit of the car than doing the same with rwd.

[Ender81]

I would say Honest_Bob knows the difference between rwd and awd better then any of us lol.

[Godofelru]

What they were really trying to do was make the transition to a turbo fwd F1 car but that fell through when they realized how ridiculously stupid it was. :rotfl:

Nice comeback! My car has no issues with grip whatsoever as long as it's warmer than 45 degrees out!

Let me know how long that glass tranny of yours lasts in the subaru, oh wait didn't it already shred 4th gear? :)

Back on OT. AWD is awesome and really they should stick to what they know best.

[Supraholic]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-wheel_drive_in_Formula_One

It was too difficult to implement at the time..(1960's), but was banned anyway in 1982. It's a shame in a way, since the cars could have been even faster with modern AWD technologies.

To be honest, I don't think AWD would benefit simply because of the speed, downforce they already create. And they are able to achieve this because of their construction design. AWD would disrupt that.

I read FIA's latest technical regulations. As with anything F1, the rules are very ambiguous, however, it does clearly state that:


9.1 Transmission types :
No transmission system may permit more than two wheels to be driven.

9.8 Torque transfer systems :
9.8.1 Any system or device the design of which is capable of transferring or diverting torque from a slower to a
faster rotating wheel is not permitted.
9.8.2 Any device which is capable of transferring torque between the principal axes of rotation of the two front
wheels is prohibited.

This does not mean that engineers are not allowed to adapt another motor and trans-axle to the front end. That however would create a lot more weight and aerodynamic compromises.

Was it the exact same model of car for every drivetrain cofiguration except for what wheels were driven? Same size, brand, and model of tires? Same suspension setup? etc...

This is a very difficult thing to measure because usually vehicles are designed one way or the other, RWD, or AWD, etc. To be able to find a vehicle that offers both without compromising on the design is rather difficult. It has been my experience though that when a manufacturer offers a model with both options, the AWD is the slower one. When you look Honda Civic AWD, Camry, etc of the past, the AWD was slower and also consumed more energy due to the extra added weight. When you also look at more modern cars like the BMW 3 series , Lexus IS both offered with RWD & AWD, the AWD version is slower. Obviously, and no one can debate this, in any kind of slippery condition, the AWD would be superior.

This has been my stance since this conversation started. Its definitely a driver's choice to make. I'm not saying that AWD is not worth having. When it snows, it is a great thing, for me however I don't feel the weather around here is bad enough to justify me needing AWD for the REST of the entire year. I've been through blizzards, heavy rains, etc with AWD, RWD, FWD, and always the AWD has been best. Yet I've never gotten stuck with RWD or FWD. With a little bit of finesse, you can manuver yourself out of almost anything.

P.S - I lied, I did get stuck once. I had a BMW 325 and had to stop at the gate at work after a blizzard. After trying to get going again, I started sliding sideways. It took me about 5-10 min to get out. This however is my mind set - that doesn't justify me the need to carry all the added weight of AWD all year round, so that I can use it maybe once or twice a year. Everyone has their choices and I respect that.

I would say Honest_Bob knows the difference between rwd and awd better then any of us lol.

That cannot be used as a comparison. You can't take a vehicle that was designed as an AWD vehicle and delete the front shafts, specially a subaru where the engine sits all the way in front of the strut towers and then call it RWD LOL... :rotfl:

[R22B]

That cannot be used as a comparison. You can't take a vehicle that was designed as an AWD vehicle and delete the front shafts, specially a subaru where the engine sits all the way in front of the strut towers and then call it RWD LOL... :rotfl:

But his car is RWD ;). I saw how RWD Subaru's did in the 2WD rallycross - not so good. It completely destroys the balance of the car.

As far as RWD/AWD debate. Obviously getting more power down to more wheels is better, but I wouldn't say its better in every form of racing. For instance, we will never see an Audi R10 with AWD. Its too heavy and complicated (and probably banned).

However, for production cars, AWD can be extremely competitive on the track - a lot more than what people are willing to give it. Look at K-PAX Racing for example :)

[Chris B.]

sorry man, i respect your tracking with the stang, but this is a ridiculous statement.

Maybe I should have elaborated, but I really believe out of the 20,000+ members here, less than 200 (the remaining 1%) have the skills to show significant performance differences between similar(similar power, weight, suspension design, etc...) and properly set up RWD and AWD cars. The rest don't have the skills or experience to truly exploit any advantage one drivetrain configuration has over the other in autocross, on a race track, rally cross, or any other form or high performance driving or driving competition.

Most people way over estimate their driving skill.

[Chris B.]

That looks like some hot wet sloppy lesbian sex. DO WANT!

I want to see it scissor grind with a 458 Italia.

[DaveSTi]

To be honest, I don't think AWD would benefit simply because of the speed, downforce they already create. And they are able to achieve this because of their construction design. AWD would disrupt that.

I read FIA's latest technical regulations. As with anything F1, the rules are very ambiguous, however, it does clearly state that:



This does not mean that engineers are not allowed to adapt another motor and trans-axle to the front end. That however would create a lot more weight and aerodynamic compromises.




Those rules very clearly rule out modern AWD systems. No torque transfer? Really?

[DaveSTi]

Maybe I should have elaborated, but I really believe out of the 20,000+ members here, less than 200 (the remaining 1%) have the skills to show significant performance differences between similar(similar power, weight, suspension design, etc...) and properly set up RWD and AWD cars. The rest don't have the skills or experience to truly exploit any advantage one drivetrain configuration has over the other in autocross, on a race track, rally cross, or any other form or high performance driving or driving competition.

Most people way over estimate their driving skill.

Against a clock, I think you'd find AWD being easier to drive quicker for most of the members here.

I do agree with the overestimation of driving skill. We're all guilty of it.

I autocrossed my Mustang for a good 5 years. Autocrossed an AWD Talon, the STi and the Evo too. There really is a noticeable difference in that racing venue.

At the drag strip, the Mustang vs. the AWD cars was also vastly different.

Only thing I couldn't give you a comparison on between the two drivetrains is on a track track.

[Supraholic]

Those rules very clearly rule out modern AWD systems. No torque transfer? Really?

F1 is all about the driver. We can see the difference torque transfer makes in cars like the 458. Without the electronics, it definitely feels more spirited, but with it is quite faster.

[jpalamar]

This thread sucks.

[Supraholic]

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/1792/sideftcolor.png

[Supraholic]

Scion to debut a concept of this car at the NYIAS April 20th. I hope is a separate version of the FT-86 for Scion.


Rendering of the FT-86 II.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1531&d=1302628822

[marshallpre1]

I'm going to the NYIAS this Friday. Will report when I come back :)

[fightinchunk]

F1 was all about the driver.

fixed. it's almost all about the machine now. put jarno trulli/heikki/sutil/kubica is a front running car and it'll just simply prove that most top tier level drivers have very similar skill levels. GP2 is a much better indicator of lower level talent that'll translate into top tier OWRS well... hence the paul di resti hype

[Supraholic]

fixed. it's almost all about the machine now. put jarno trulli/heikki/sutil/kubica is a front running car and it'll just simply prove that most top tier level drivers have very similar skill levels. GP2 is a much better indicator of lower level talent that'll translate into top tier OWRS well... hence the paul di resti hype

You're comparing drivers that are very good with drivers that are very good. That's why they appear to be about the same. Obviously F1 has tons of high tech equipment, but it still holds true to having high driving skills. There are very good drivers this season and hence why Shumacher is having such a hard time catching up. He was a good driver during an era of average drivers. Now he's a good driver in a time of great drivers.

[Supraholic]

http://c0013734.cdn1.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/x2_59e3790

http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg640/scaled.php?tn=0&server=640&filename=7butqo.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640

[twastheglow]

This car is going to be grossly underpowered for it's looks. Unless of course they water it way down for production.

[Supraholic]

http://www.myfr-s.com/media/110420/FRS1_small.jpg

http://www.myfr-s.com/media/110420/FRS2_small.jpg

[Supraholic]

http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/5492/40271742.jpg

[Supraholic]

http://i56.tinypic.com/8wkuh3.jpg

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/4162/frsconceptfront2.jpg

http://pressroom.toyota.com/images/Concept001.jpg

[DaveSTi]

good god that thing is sexy as hell.

[SpEcRv9]

This car is going to be grossly underpowered for it's looks. Unless of course they water it way down for production.

Which they will...

[Supraholic]

Car is 95% production ready. Engine will be at least 200hp NA thanks to Toyota's DS-4 system and Yamaha's head tuning. There will be a turbo option as well.

[oneday]

This car is going to be grossly underpowered for it's looks. Unless of course they water it way down for production.


If it looks like that, is 2800-3000lbs, and has 180-200 hp ... it'll be stellar.

[Supraholic]

Saw the car at NYIAS yesterday and it is a spectacular design. There was a crowd around the car at all times. I HOPE the fenders stay!

[nuTinmuch]

Car is 95% production ready. Engine will be at least 200hp NA thanks to Toyota's DS-4 system and Yamaha's head tuning. There will be a turbo option as well.

Source for the turbo option? I would love this to be true. :(

[Supraholic]

Source for the turbo option? I would love this to be true. :(

AUTOCAR. "There are rumors of Kitted car with more like 270bhp"


http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/3057/ft861.jpg
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/7073/ft862.jpg
http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/4393/ft863.jpg
http://img852.imageshack.us/img852/1908/ft864.jpg
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/893/ft865.jpg
http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/7769/ft866.jpg
http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/3697/ft867.jpg
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/6940/ft868.jpg[/QUOTE]

[Khellen]

June 2013 my accord is payed off....this could be my next car. :)

Time to start saving!




....if it's not 30k.

edit:

What's the deal with the back window in this pic?

http://c0013734.cdn1.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/x2_59e3790

[Ender81]

Jeremy they are saying around 17-20K for that one.

[Supraholic]

Why a Scion? Because scion said so!

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/storyimage/CA/20110425/OEM03/304259951/AR/AR-304259951.jpg&q=80&MaxW=505
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110425/OEM03/304259951/1423


NEW YORK -- It's going to be a Toyota in the rest of the world, so why would the FR-S concept coupe get a Scion badge in the United States and Canada?

According to Toyota executives, the decision went all the way to company scion and president Akio Toyoda. In discussions with American management, the company decided that the 200-hp, rear-drive FR-S would be a halo car for the young buyers that Scion craves.

So what does the Toyota brand get out of it?

Said Toyota Division General Manager Bob Carter: "There may be additional uses for that platform," hinting that an all-wheel-drive vehicle might be derived for Toyota dealers. "It's a heck of a package."

[nuTinmuch]

Thanks for the link!

I really hope that rumor turns out to be true.

[Supraholic]

Ooooh baby!

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1701&stc=1&d=1303526951

Pic is obviously non-official, but hint hint Subaru!

[DaBombDiggidy]

loving all of these rwd coupe concepts coming back because i will be in line for an upgrade when these are out :)

[nissamax]

hmm if subarus looks like that i will be owning one

[bkruelle]

If toyota and subi are teaming up why not make that concept a AWD TT. Take some design goodies off of the supra.. Possibly targa top, 6spd, would even be cool to see a couple models, one in awd format and one in a rwd format bot sportting 6cylTT and a 6speed. May cost over $30k but it would be one hell of a car

[jpalamar]

Ooooh baby!

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1701&stc=1&d=1303526951

Pic is obviously non-official, but hint hint Subaru!

I really like that... but too much Photoshop.

[twastheglow]

If toyota and subi are teaming up why not make that concept a AWD TT. Take some design goodies off of the supra.. Possibly targa top, 6spd, would even be cool to see a couple models, one in awd format and one in a rwd format bot sportting 6cylTT and a 6speed. May cost over $30k but it would be one hell of a car

You answered your own question.

[JB'sLGT]

Well, if this turns out to be fail, Factory Five is basing their new lightweight sports car around a WRX drivetrain. Target price for a completed car is $15k.

http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/818intro.html

[twastheglow]

Well, if this turns out to be fail, Factory Five is basing their new lightweight sports car around a WRX drivetrain. Target price for a completed car is $15k.

http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/818intro.html

Wow! I know many people disagree, but I wish they would make it with a hard top.

[Supraru]

Hi turbo. The scoop is all I needed to see.

[Ender81]

Well, if this turns out to be fail, Factory Five is basing their new lightweight sports car around a WRX drivetrain. Target price for a completed car is $15k.

http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/818intro.html

Yeah this has been brought up in this thread and pretty much every Subaru thread lol. I am waiting to see which design they go with.

[Supraholic]

FT-86 UK version spied

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/toyota-ft-86-spied-testing/257036/pictures/toyota-ft-86-spied-testing.aspx

http://cdn.images.autocar.co.uk/612x408FFFFFF/Car/Toyota/Toyota-165111151467021600x1060.jpg

http://cdn.images.autocar.co.uk/612x408FFFFFF/Car/Toyota/Toyota-165111151459671600x1060.jpg

[Fifteen]

Meh not impressed with the toyota or subaru concepts.

[Supraholic]

Testing around Europe - Video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm9avYS5af8

http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/2730/ft81.jpg

[Supraholic]

Possible Turbo version
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1925&d=1306949057

NA Version
http://i.i-sgcm.com/news/article_events/2011/2431_10_l.jpg

[Khellen]

Possible Turbo version
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1925&d=1306949057

,/swoon

[JST2KWIK]

is it just me or does the NA version look way better?

[Zdrummer15]

is it just me or does the NA version look way better?

The only things that look different to me are the hood scoop (for obvious reasons), wing, front bumper, and headlights. I would say since the second picture is just a rendering that the n/a version will probably look more like the first picture when all is said and done.

[Foolinaround]

Id rather see the NA with the turbo scoop on it

[thefro526]

Id rather see the NA with the turbo scoop on it

I'd rather see an official Subaru rendering.

[Supraholic]

http://www.autoguide.com/gallery/gallery.php/d/364397-4/Scion+FR-S+19.JPG


As the official launch of the Toyota FT-86 approaches this Fall, details about the final production version of what is easily the most highly anticipated car of the year are starting to slip out. The details come from Moto Miwa, the founder of Club4AG, a site dedicated to the AE86 (the car that inspired the FT-86), after a conversation with Chief Engineer Tada-san and having seen what he claims is the final production version of the upcoming sports car.

Miwa’s fanaticism is hard to ignore, and so as much as we want to take his word for it, we’ll take a grain of salt with all the Koolaid he’s been drinking.

Described as “basic” and “pure” but not cheap, Miwa says it’s as revolutionary as the Datsun 510, the BMW 2002, the VW Beetle, the ’65 Mustang and the Honda CRX.

The design is said to be closer to the original FT-86 Concept, with a few details from the Scion FR-S Concept. It will look identical in all markets, apart from different badging – with the U.S. market model sold as the Scion FR-S.

Under the hood the boxer 4-cylinder has reportedly been almost entirely redesigned and shares nothing but its opposed cylinder layout with the Subaru version. Yahama engineers were involved in the development of the engine.

To ensure this car lives up to the hype Toyota employed its best engineers, including some who worked on the original AE86, as well as on the MR2 and Prius. Lessons from the LFA program were implemented and even engineers from Subaru’s WRC and STI divisions got involved.

Miwa describes how the car was built with tuners and racers in mind, with spaces near the dash so a roll cage can be installed while keeping the dash intact. The engine mounts and space under the hood will also make for an easy swap of a turbocharged Subaru boxer engine, should you want to go that route. (This detail has been confirmed to AutoGuide by a Scion insider).

“Never before, has such low-cost niche-car seen so much research, so much development budget, and resourced with so many talents,” says Miwa, who then quotes Tada-san, who describes the FT-86 as a car endorsed by Akio Toyoda and designed by passion, not a committee.

And as much hype as the FT-86 has received so far, the reality will be better promises Miwa. “This car will ROCK YOUR WORLD” he says, “I will bet my soul on it.”

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2011/07/toyota-ft-86-scion-fr-s-exciting-new-details.html

[marshallpre1]

This could be a lot of win.

[jpalamar]

Not impressed. They are basically saying they are making a cool looking turd until you swap the motor out and mod it.

[Ender81]

Not impressed. They are basically saying they are making a cool looking turd until you swap the motor out and mod it.

I think they are making a car like the miata and the S2000. Meaning it's perfectly good the way it is for taking a turn and enjoying the drive. The difference being they are making it easy on anyone who wants to make more power. So they are saying this car is great the way it is but if you want something more from it here you go.

[marshallpre1]

I think they are making a car like the miata and the S2000. Meaning it's perfectly good the way it is for taking a turn and enjoying the drive. The difference being they are making it easy on anyone who wants to make more power. So they are saying this car is great the way it is but if you want something more from it here you go.

Correct. It is going to be smaller than an S2K.

[Supraholic]

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2011/08/brzweb.jpg

WRX drivers won't like hearing it, but Subaru has got some catching up to do with Toyota. While the latter has unveiled several concepts to preview its version of the rear-drive coupe the two are developing together, the former has yet to show us anything more than a frame. But that's about to change.

At the rapidly approaching Frankfurt Motor Show, Subaru will be unveiling a "technology concept" for its version of the sports car. And in announcing its plans, Fuji Heavy's automotive unit has revealed the car's name: BRZ.

The letters stand for Boxer Rear-drive Zenith, and will be worn on the concept called the BRZ Prologue. We're not quite sure what to expect, exactly, of a "technology concept," but hopefully, it'll give us a better idea of what we're looking at than what we've seen so far. Follow the jump for the press release and follow the link to the teaser site for more.

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/08/23/subaru-names-its-coupe-brz-as-concept-heads-for-frankfurt/

[Supraru]

Finally, I hear now there are rumors that at first it won't be turbo'd......fail. I'd be pretty pissed if I bought one and the next year they came out with a superior version.

[Subie_sleeper]

Finally, I hear now there are rumors that at first it won't be turbo'd......fail. I'd be pretty pissed if I bought one and the next year they came out with a superior version.

I forgot to post this when my GM & Mr. Becker got back from a SOA event in Chicago.

Sadly, it is powered by a non-turbo 2.0 for starters.....:cry:

They saw one up close.... & from their reaction we're ALL really looking forward to getting them on the lot. :mrgreen:

They made everyone leave their cell phones outside the area so no pictures were snapped. :cry:

It's supposed to be priced under 25K. :mrgreen:

[jpalamar]

It would be cool is they offered to sell it as a rolling chasis instead of paying for a motor that is just going to be replaced.

[Supraru]

I forgot to post this when my GM & Mr. Becker got back from a SOA event in Chicago.

Sadly, it is powered by a non-turbo 2.0 for starters.....:cry:

They saw one up close.... & from their reaction we're ALL really looking forward to getting them on the lot. :mrgreen:

They made everyone leave their cell phones outside the area so no pictures were snapped. :cry:

It's supposed to be priced under 25K. :mrgreen:

Yeah I've heard that for a little bit but was really crossing my fingers someone was throwing a curve ball. Looks like boring Toyota won. This whole time they didn't want Subaru's version to be turbo'd. What ******s. I'm also wondering how much of it could be that the new turbo engine isn't ready yet. Guess time will tell.

[JST2KWIK]

After reading that article about the Toyota version, I am really excited to see this car. This is the first time I would put Toyota and 'passion' in the same sentence, but I almost feel like they want this car to be succesful more so for customer enjoyment than for profit :eek:

[Supraru]

After reading that article about the Toyota version, I am really excited to see this car. This is the first time I would put Toyota and 'passion' in the same sentence, but I almost feel like they want this car to be succesful more so for customer enjoyment than for profit :eek:

While I'm sure it will be a "fun car" and they look good, 200 hp to the crank was impressive for imports in the late 90's early 2000's. Times have changed and more power is better. It's kinda more of a step back.

[JST2KWIK]

While I'm sure it will be a "fun car" and they look good, 200 hp to the crank was impressive for imports in the late 90's early 2000's. Times have changed and more power is better. It's kinda more of a step back.

See I totally disagree. More power = more money and as biggy said, and I quote, "mo' money mo' prollems." On a serious note, this will make RWD cars setup with performance in mind attainable for the masses. 17 year old kids dont need 300hp but it's nice to have a cheap, RWD alternative to the SI. I bet it will outhandle many expensive cars

[SpEcRv9]

17 year old kids dont need 300hp but it's nice to have a cheap, RWD alternative to the SI.

17 year old kids dont need cars that are 25k either.

[specvince]

See I totally disagree. More power = more money and as biggy said, and I quote, "mo' money mo' prollems." On a serious note, this will make RWD cars setup with performance in mind attainable for the masses. 17 year old kids dont need 300hp but it's nice to have a cheap, RWD alternative to the SI. I bet it will outhandle many expensive cars


subaru's market plan isnt mainly for 17 year old kids, and your one to talk you had a 335i. lol soo who are you to say anything about 17 year old kids with 300hp cars. not every 17 year old kid is a crappy driver. dont be so ignorant lol

[DaveSTi]

not every 17 year old kid is a crappy driver. dont be so ignorant lol

Yeah they are. There simply isn't enough time behind the wheel by 17 years old to be as good as someone with more years of experience. Fact of life.

[marshallpre1]

Yeah they are. There simply isn't enough time behind the wheel by 17 years old to be as good as someone with more years of experience. Fact of life.

Agreed. Couple that with texting, it's pretty much game over for anyone on the road

My opinion on the car: 200hp & 3000lbs @ <25K is not bad. If that figure is closer to 220hp, I'll be happier. However, for me, it is simply still too slow. I wouldn't buy it. Make it 300hp and 3000lbs for ~$30K and odds of me picking it up just multiplied ten fold. Hell sell it under a Toyota badge and then BAM, just made the Toyota line up a lot younger (ie less boring) while not alienating younger, Scion buyers.

[Subie_sleeper]

Yeah they are. There simply isn't enough time behind the wheel by 17 years old to be as good as someone with more years of experience. Fact of life.

QFT !!!!

& the ones who are adamant about how great they are, are usually the most dangerous.

The only way a young person can be a great driver @ 17 is if he/she has been involved in some type of on track racing for MANY years prior.

[JST2KWIK]

17 year old kids dont need cars that are 25k either.

Of course they don't need them. That doesn't mean they don't get them.

subaru's market plan isnt mainly for 17 year old kids, and your one to talk you had a 335i. lol soo who are you to say anything about 17 year old kids with 300hp cars. not every 17 year old kid is a crappy driver. dont be so ignorant lol

Haha I was waiting for somebody who knows me to call me out. You're right they aren't marketing the car specifically towards 17 year olds but chances are, they are going to be within the demographic who want them. (and with parents who can afford them, they will wind up with them).

Not all 17 year olds are lousy drivers but they are ALL inexperienced. I have always respected cars and understood the responsibility of driving which is why even though I drove the 335 fast, I never pushed it anywhere near the limit. Frankly I didn't have the experience to handle it and I probably still don't have enough hard driving/track time under my belt to push any car all the way to the limit 'safely.' lol

[Ender81]

This thread isn't about the driving abilities of a 17yr old keep it on topic.

[Supraru]

Like I said, who really wants a 200 crank hp car now a days. Sure you can have fun with it and the drifters will point out the A86 and how cool these cars could be but then again who wouldn't rather have these light weight 2 doors pushing 265-300 hp stock? Everyone can thank boring Toyota for that. When I see everyone here commenting "yeah but it's slow" in other random threads I'll be there to say I told ya so. haha

Anyone know when the subaru version pictures are supposed to be released?

[Ender81]

I am really fine with the hp it will have. I guess I just come from a different mindset where you care less about hp and more about things like suspension, weight distribution and power to weight. Besides you can always remedy low hp :)

[red07eclipse]

that car is in the new grand trismo

[Supraholic]

Spy Photos: Toyota FT-86 / Scion FR-S Race Car by Gazoo

http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/assets_c/2011/10/ScionFR-S_gazoo6_KGP_ed-thumb-717x478-102906.jpg

We still don't have the normal version of the Toyota FT-86 (or its sister, the Subaru BRZ), but on Saturday, Toyota will be racing an FT-86 in the German VLN series on the Nurburgring. The cars are prepped by Gazoo Racing.

There isn't much we can learn about the real version from this race-prepped car with its R-Spec tires, big brakes (which could be production sized but would be expensive), lightweight wheels and fixed calipers front and rear (four-piston up front, two piston out back-- again, could be production, but expencive) but it's good to see that they're still working on the car and using racing to benchmark performance.

Lexusophiles will remember that the same thing was done during the development of the LF-A. That car was also prepped by Gazoo.

http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/assets_c/2011/10/ScionFR-S_gazoo2_KGP_ed-thumb-717x478-102908.jpg

http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/assets_c/2011/10/ScionFR-S_gazoo7_KGP_ed-thumb-717x478-102912.jpg

[Supraholic]

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/3418/ft86.jpg
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/7073/ft862.jpg

[Jah1mon]

If they stay true to its lower curb weight, the 200hp figure will justify it. I'm sure Subaru wouldn't want to add too much power to this thing and overshadow the performance of their AWD cars.

Plus if you can easily mount a EJ engine inside, you can build any motor you want to power this thing, and already have a decent chassis to back you up.

[Supraru]

If they stay true to its lower curb weight, the 200hp figure will justify it. I'm sure Subaru wouldn't want to add too much power to this thing and overshadow the performance of their AWD cars.

Plus if you can easily mount a EJ engine inside, you can build any motor you want to power this thing, and already have a decent chassis to back you up.

Not really sure the Fb mounts the same as the ej. I'll have to look next time one comes in. That would make the just drop in an ej idea not as simple.