subaru knows RWD is more fun

[WolfsFang]

Don't bring me into it lol I was enjoying not being in a argument. I just don't think they will come out with a turbo brz. If they do then well im wrong and that's it. I just find it hard to believe that you say you have seen the turbo model but nothing on the internet backs you up. Don't say some bs like they took our phones or techs don't go on forums. This is the 21 century people have ways of finding information and of none exist then I find it really hard to believe you.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

[Supraru]

I well don't know anything so bet you? :bigeek:

Why would I make a bet with someone over the internet who I don't even know, and why would I make a bet for anything which I am not certain about? AGAIN, I never said you were wrong, I just said I have doubts about the information you are claiming.

doubt
verb (used with object)
1.
to be uncertain about; consider questionable or unlikely; hesitate to believe.

I know what you're doing. You're trying to play both sides do you can lean either way they go. An example of what you're doing is the "no offense" line. Oh because you sai no offense then the immediate following line that will offend me but it's ok because you said no offense.

You're saying it can happen but I don't believe you. To anything I say you question but then say "well I don't know anyway". Instead all you do is try to start crap on message boards. Most likely because you're lonley.

[Supraru]

Don't bring me into it lol I was enjoying not being in a argument. I just don't think they will come out with a turbo brz. If they do then well im wrong and that's it. I just find it hard to believe that you say you have seen the turbo model but nothing on the internet backs you up. Don't say some bs like they took our phones or techs don't go on forums. This is the 21 century people have ways of finding information and of none exist then I find it really hard to believe you.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

Learn how to read. Read what I've stated then rewrite what you just wrote.

[itwillboost]

By looking at Subaru's progessions I would definitely say a BRZ turbo model will be released. When though, who knows.

[mcperson2k]

I know what you're doing. You're trying to play both sides do you can lean either way they go. An example of what you're doing is the "no offense" line. Oh because you sai no offense then the immediate following line that will offend me but it's ok because you said no offense.

You're saying it can happen but I don't believe you. To anything I say you question but then say "well I don't know anyway". Instead all you do is try to start crap on message boards. Most likely because you're lonley.

When did I ever say no offense?

I'm playing both sides of what? a BRZ vs a Turbo BRZ? Iv heard of siding with people, but never an inanimate object.

I commented on 1 thing you said, this entire time, and it was that I doubted your confirmation on a turbo BRZ next year.

Honestly, I don't know why I am still writing to you, because you are clearly some bum kid who couldn't cut it in school. You keep making things up about me, and you keep pretending like you are better off than me even though you struggle to write 1 paragraph that makes sense.

[Supraru]

When did I ever say no offense?

I'm playing both sides of what? a BRZ vs a Turbo BRZ? Iv heard of siding with people, but never an inanimate object.

I commented on 1 thing you said, this entire time, and it was that I doubted your confirmation on a turbo BRZ next year.

Honestly, I don't know why I am still writing to you, because you are clearly some bum kid who couldn't cut it in school. You keep making things up about me, and you keep pretending like you are better off than me even though you struggle to write 1 paragraph that makes sense.

Clearly I'm not struggling to write anything. Reading is not your strong point. That makes both of you who can't comprehend anything. I guess that's about right for this site. Before you bash my intelegence please tell me what you do for a living.

[mcperson2k]

Actually, I can read very well... I graduated from WCU with a Computer Science degree, and I work for the leading company in education medical simulation. I'm basically the R&D department, and I test out new hardware, cameras, and open sourced software, to see if its worth upgrading to, or even compatible in general with what we are doing. However I don't need a degree to know that you are just straight up DUMB... You showed me that yourself.

[Supraru]

Actually, I can read very well... I graduated from WCU with a Computer Science degree, and I work for the leading company in education medical simulation. I'm basically the R&D department, and I test out new hardware, cameras, and open sourced software, to see if its worth upgrading to, or even compatible in general with what we are doing. However I don't need a degree to know that you are just straight up DUMB... You showed me that yourself.

Wow a computer science degree. Yeah you're right your way smarter then me. You should go back and learn Latin.

[nuTinmuch]

Wow a computer science degree. Yeah you're right your way smarter then me. You should go back and learn Latin.

Yeah you're right your way smarter then me.

learn Latin.

:3

There's a possibility that a turbo BRZ is being developed, but if it is, I seriously doubt you or your friend have seen it or anything about it.

There's just no way that something like that wouldn't leak, especially when the existence of the BRZ/FRS/etc. was known years before it was revealed to the public.

While I'm sure you're confident in your friend (or whatever), as of right now it is you vs. the world.

[WolfsFang]

If their is going to be any forced induction then it might be a supercharger ....... which would be awesome but I have never seen a supercharger boxer motor. Reason why I say this is because it would let them keep the same pistons and compression ratio. Might only jack the price by 3k compared to maybe 10k for a turbo.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

[WolfsFang]

Scion FR-S pricing is out, looks likes its 25k for it. Kinda high but from my understanding the price also reflects all the taxes and dealer fee's that go into a new car.
http://www.scion.com/

[mcperson2k]

Yeah, I was expecting the price to be a little lower as well... Makes me super curious what the BRZ is going to be priced at. Isn't this the same price as the r-spec 2.0t genesis?

[mcperson2k]

Never mind, the r-spec is 26,500, but even so... Less than 2k more for a better suspension, brembos, and 75 more HP.

[Chris B.]

I've been looking at the tires available in 215/45-17 and also sizes similar diameters to the stock size. In the stock size there are a wide variety of reasonable priced performance tires available. Most of these tires are in the $150-$200 price range, except for the last few.


Continental ExtremeContact DW
Continental ContiSportContact 3
Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec
Kumho Ecsta XS
Hankook Ventus R-S3
Michelin Pilot Super Sport
Bridgestone Potenza S-04 Pole Position
Yokohama ADVAN Sport
Michelin Pilot Sport 3
Toyo proxes R888
Toyo Proxes Proxes R1R
Yokohama ADVAN Neova AD08
Yokohama ADVAN A048
Bridgestone Potenza RE-11
Bridgestone Potenza RE070


235/40-17 tires are close tot he same diameter as the stock tires. In that size you can get these tires.


Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec
Michelin Pilot Sport PS2
Yokohama ADVAN Neova AD08
Bridgestone Potenza RE-11
BFGoodrich g-Force R1
Toyo Proxes Proxes R1R
Toyo proxes R888


I'm not sure if 255/40-17 tires could fit under the fenders, but if they can, there seems to be a good choice of tires in that size too.

[Chris B.]

Yeah, I was expecting the price to be a little lower as well... Makes me super curious what the BRZ is going to be priced at. Isn't this the same price as the r-spec 2.0t genesis?

Never mind, the r-spec is 26,500, but even so... Less than 2k more for a better suspension, brembos, and 75 more HP.

Someone on another forum brought up that you can get a 2013 Mustang V6 with the performance package and Recaro seats for a few dollars more than the FRS and have a car that's faster on a road course than an S2000, WRX STI, Lancer Evo IX, 335is, 135i coupe, Genesis 3.8 R-Spec, etc.... It makes it a tough choice, especially for someone who needs 4 useable seats and the extra cargo room in their daily driver.

The FRS is priced competitively with the MX-5 Miata, but there are many other $25,000-$30,000 cars out there.

[CleanNeon98]

Scion FR-S pricing is out, looks likes its 25k for it. Kinda high but from my understanding the price also reflects all the taxes and dealer fee's that go into a new car.
http://www.scion.com/
Dealer fees? Dealer COSTS are built into the INVOICE price of the car, MSRP is usually a starting point for negotiation but even if you buy the car at whatever invoice is, the dealer is still holding money (and they should)

[Scapegoat]

If their is going to be any forced induction then it might be a supercharger

where did you hear this?

[mcperson2k]

Someone on another forum brought up that you can get a 2013 Mustang V6 with the performance package and Recaro seats for a few dollars more than the FRS and have a car that's faster on a road course than an S2000, WRX STI, Lancer Evo IX, 335is, 135i coupe, Genesis 3.8 R-Spec, etc.... It makes it a tough choice, especially for someone who needs 4 useable seats and the extra cargo room in their daily driver.

The FRS is priced competitively with the MX-5 Miata, but there are many other $25,000-$30,000 cars out there.

Does the performance package for the v6 come with the Brembos?

[jpalamar]

Does the performance package for the v6 come with the Brembos?

I don't think so. Personally, a simple good set of rotors and pads is all the majority of owners need anyway.

[WolfsFang]

where did you hear this?

My guess, it will be cheaper for them to do so.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

[Chris B.]

Does the performance package for the v6 come with the Brembos?

No it doesn't. For a track day car, they aren't needed. The stock V6/GT brakes do a great job of slowing down the car from high speeds. The only advantage to the brembos is possibly longer brake pad life during track day use doe to the thicker, but more costly pads. There is no change in braking distance between the stock calipers and the brembos with the same brake pad compound.

[Khellen]

25k for the FRS? Really? That's about $5k more then I'd be willing to spend on it.

[WolfsFang]

the 0-60 times are in for the cars, looks like 6.5 for it.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1203_2013_subaru_brz_limited_first_test/

[Supraholic]

The BRZ is at becker Subaru until today!

I've been following this car since 2005 when it was just a concept and to finally sit inside and experience it, was great! The car has a few neat features and was certainly developed with purists in mind. The seats and driving position are truly amazing, and keep in mind I've sat and rode shotgun in the Lexus LFA and to me, this was pretty close to that, especially for the price!

My impressions of the car:

- Don (Ender81) was with me and @ 8' tall, he fit just fine.
- The car is very small as expected, however the inside is ergonomically correct and spacious. All the things you need are where they need to be.
- The engine is very small and I can tell the changes they've made are visible as far as size. I just don't understand why they didn't move the engine further back - There's ton's of space! (about another 4-6" easy)
- The driving position is outstanding!
- @ 18.25" CoG, with a simple 1" drop you'd have the same CoG as the Lexus LFA - And trust me, the wheel gap is huge! You can certainly drop it at least 2" lol
- The car is certainly mod friendly and there's tons of space for various kinds of FI (Super or turbo charged) as well as swaps. LSX anyone?

Besides all that has been mentioned on here - (The iPod/iPhone slot next to the USB/audio aux input, the diaphragm that sends engine noises to the cabin, etc) I found a very interesting feature! The windows go down about 1" as soon as you open the door, and go back up as soon as you close them! Those are the kinds of details that drive me in! This is very similar to what 05+ mustangs do, just a bit better.

If you'd like to visually see what I'm talking about, go to this video and fast forward to 3:14 sec and watch as Chris closes the door, the window goes up to its normal fully closed position.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=romf-G6CZ7g

EDIT: Link is fixed.

[Scapegoat]

The windows go down about 1" as soon as you open the door, and go back up as soon as you close them! Those are the kinds of details that drive me in! This is very similar to what 05+ mustangs do, just a bit better.

If you'd like to visually see what I'm talking about, go to this video and fast forward to 3:14 sec and watch as Chris closes the door, the window goes up to its normal fully closed position.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=romf-...67RVAAAAAAAAAA

URL for the video isn't working.

I also find it interesting that you compare the feature to the mustang's. could you explain why it does it "a bit better"?

[mcperson2k]

URL for the video isn't working.

I also find it interesting that you compare the feature to the mustang's. could you explain why it does it "a bit better"?

Maybe it goes down further so it looks cooler... Or makes a sweeter suction type noise?

God, I want this car and don't want it at the same time... The specs make me feel like I should be spending money on something else, but the reviews make me want it even more.. :cry:

[Supraholic]

URL for the video isn't working.

I also find it interesting that you compare the feature to the mustang's. could you explain why it does it "a bit better"?

The mustang brings the window down as soon as you turn the ignition off and also because of design, if your battery dies, the door because hard to open and doesn't fully close.

Not sure why is "interesting" to you. I just thought since the mustang is very common, people would associate that and know what I'm talking about.

I will fix the link now. Not sure why it was changed.

[Supraholic]

Maybe it goes down further so it looks cooler... Or makes a sweeter suction type noise?



Is that really the impression I give, or are you just that immature?

[mcperson2k]

Is that really the impression I give, or are you just that immature?

I'm just THAT immature.

[Scapegoat]

The mustang brings the window down as soon as you turn the ignition off and also because of design, if your battery dies, the door because hard to open and doesn't fully close.

Not sure why is "interesting" to you. I just thought since the mustang is very common, people would associate that and know what I'm talking about.

I will fix the link now. Not sure why it was changed.

it's interesting because its sort of a mundane sort of feature to compare and say it's better. i'll need to check my '10, but i don't think the window comes down until i open the door.

why does the br-z do it if the window isnt going up into something?

[jpalamar]

The mustang brings the window down as soon as you turn the ignition off and also because of design, if your battery dies, the door because hard to open and doesn't fully close.

My windows only moved when I opened the door.

[Chris B.]

The mustang brings the window down as soon as you turn the ignition off and also because of design, if your battery dies, the door because hard to open and doesn't fully close.


The Mustang's windows from 2005 to 2013 don't go down until you pull on the door handle to open the door. They don't move down when you turn the ignition off.

[Supraholic]

it's interesting because its sort of a mundane sort of feature to compare and say it's better. i'll need to check my '10, but i don't think the window comes down until i open the door.

why does the br-z do it if the window isnt going up into something?

Is better to me for the reason I stated previously. Perhaps yours is better to you. I'm not the car god, that is just merely my own opinion. No need to make a huge deal out of this, but since it has gone so far, I would definitely like to see if yours does that or not just out of curiosity. :)


why does the br-z do it if the window isnt going up into something?

they do this in order to create a tighter seal and prevent water from leaking inside.

[Scapegoat]

we havent gone "so far"... i wasnt even calling you out on anything. i was just wondering...

[Supraholic]

The Mustang's windows from 2005 to 2013 don't go down until you pull on the door handle to open the door. They don't move down when you turn the ignition off.

Ah, thanks for the clarification Chris!

[xhrl]

Maybe it goes down further so it looks cooler... Or makes a sweeter suction type noise?

God, I want this car and don't want it at the same time... The specs make me feel like I should be spending money on something else, but the reviews make me want it even more.. :cry:

My friends who are looking to buy either the FR-S or the BRZ are asking the same thing.

1. Buy a FR-S/BRZ and go FI to add more power
2. Buy a 2013 Genesis Coupe 2.0T R-Spec and fix the under steer

adding FI to an NA engine isn't usually dirt cheap, but there should be plenty of aftermarket support for it
but at the same time, you can easily squeeze more power from a car that comes with a turbo and suspension mods cost less compared to a legitimate FI kit.

I was looking to trade in my car for a FR-S but mileage is disappointing.. yes, this isn't a Prius and it isn't meant to be.. but staying in the higher rpm range and DDing can really do some damage.
also, it doesn't help that a lot of people will want the Subaru version and dealers won't cut me any deals..

[Scapegoat]

in 20 years this car will be the new 240

[WolfsFang]

Heading to toyota to order my FRS, cant wait. I was really leaning on the genesis 3.8 since my friend took me a ride in it but after reading the reviews im going FRS.

[mcperson2k]

Heading to toyota to order my FRS, cant wait. I was really leaning on the genesis 3.8 since my friend took me a ride in it but after reading the reviews im going FRS.

You said earlier you removed your down payment on a premium BRZ (didn't you lose money doing that for the premium model?) and put it down on the FR-S...

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcScST7yuN7bkppJf3Nb4_3CHEGbRFll7 mRkanBi3Hmk8dtG9hdr_dTtWAKO8A

[rocknrace03]

they do this in order to create a tighter seal and prevent water from leaking inside.

i believe its also to relieve cabin pressure when you close the door, some cars opt to do this over hiding vents under the rear bumper

[WolfsFang]

You said earlier you removed your down payment on a premium BRZ (didn't you lose money doing that for the premium model?) and put it down on the FR-S...

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcScST7yuN7bkppJf3Nb4_3CHEGbRFll7 mRkanBi3Hmk8dtG9hdr_dTtWAKO8A

I was on the list to order the brz, though I couldent make it until 3 days later to put the money down. So I had 4 people ahead of me.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

[Ender81]

Saw it, Love it, Want it. That is all.

[JB'sLGT]

i believe its also to relieve cabin pressure when you close the door, some cars opt to do this over hiding vents under the rear bumper

Yes. The C6 had an issue with this. In development, it would make the hatch pop when they would close a door.

[WolfsFang]

Got my order in, first person at my dealer. Getting Raven color and prem, def getting HID's and still debating on the spoiler or not.

[mcperson2k]

Got my order in, first person at my dealer. Getting Raven color and prem, def getting HID's and still debating on the spoiler or not.

Where do you see options for the FR-S? Premium ? Spoiler? What options are there?

[rickeo]

Had this car in 2003.. and I still do.

[WolfsFang]

Where do you see options for the FR-S? Premium ? Spoiler? What options are there?I dont but since this is scion and they love to have massive options to customize im taking a guess. Plus the HID's dont come standard with the FRS so their has to be a option for it. Lasty the spoiler im just going off of the BRZ brochure which had the spoiler as a option.

[jpalamar]

Got my order in, first person at my dealer. Getting Raven color and prem, def getting HID's and still debating on the spoiler or not.

I dont but since this is scion and they love to have massive options to customize im taking a guess. Plus the HID's dont come standard with the FRS so their has to be a option for it. Lasty the spoiler im just going off of the BRZ brochure which had the spoiler as a option.

For somebody buying this car, you don't seem to know anything about it.

[mcperson2k]

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/281035/subaru_brz_sti_planned.html

Just another article like the thousands of others out there, but this one says no turbo for the BRZ, because the WRX's get the turbo, and they want to keep them as separate cars, and same with AWD.

Can you clarify this Suparu? :lol:

Kidding!

[Scapegoat]

not sure how people are ordering this car without driving it first... i should surprise becky with one... after i rip the motor from her sti and shove it in this lol.

the car is also begging for a rotary engine

[mcperson2k]

Just found this video too... Flimsy bumper? lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK43qgc9xlk&feature=player_embedded

[Scapegoat]

Just found this video too... Flimsy bumper? lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK43qgc9xlk&feature=player_embedded

for the price point, i'm not surprised. my srt-4 was way worse than that. even my mustang's bumper can be pushed in a little. it's so it doesnt break during a low impact hit.

really no big deal

[Supraru]

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/281035/subaru_brz_sti_planned.html

Just another article like the thousands of others out there, but this one says no turbo for the BRZ, because the WRX's get the turbo, and they want to keep them as separate cars, and same with AWD.

Can you clarify this Suparu? :lol:

Kidding!

Again why would they release there is a turbo model coming out to damage the first sales of the car? They have done this plenty of times from the production of the wrx from the Rs, 2.0 to 2.5, the 08' to 09' power increase.

[jpalamar]

Just found this video too... Flimsy bumper? lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK43qgc9xlk&feature=player_embedded

Whats your point? My Z06 body peices flex like that to and my car is still badass.

[mcperson2k]

Whats your point? My Z06 body peices flex like that to and my car is still badass.

Yeah, and people complained about that and they fixed it. And my point was the bumper is flimsy, obviously.

[jpalamar]

Yeah, and people complained about that and they fixed it. And my point was the bumper is flimsy, obviously.

Go look at a C6... it isn't fixed.

[Supraru]

Not sure what bumper covers you've been playing with but depending where you push on them they all flex. Bumper covers are thin plastic. What do you expect?

[mcperson2k]

Not sure what bumper covers you've been playing with but depending where you push on them they all flex. Bumper covers are thin plastic. What do you expect?

Yeah, and FLEX is a super broad term, which is why I said it looks flimsy. As in it FLEXes more than most cars. No **** a bumper is going to flex when you push on it, but I have never owned a car where it did that much...

[Supraru]

Yeah, and FLEX is a super broad term, which is why I said it looks flimsy. As in it FLEXes more than most cars. No **** a bumper is going to flex when you push on it, but I have never owned a car where it did that much...

Again check out most cars, you'd be surprised. We both know your brother had a probe and you have a civic. Doesn't sound like a wide variety of cars to me.

[WolfsFang]

For somebody buying this car, you don't seem to know anything about it.

what are you talking about? No one knows the accessories for the FRS so im taking a guess. The first one being the HID im sure their will be a option for that. The spoiler i dont know if scion will have that as a option.

[mcperson2k]

Again check out most cars, you'd be surprised. We both know your brother had a probe and you have a civic. Doesn't sound like a wide variety of cars to me.

Your really stupid? Honestly. And here is my cheapo point a to point b economy car. Way less flexing. Center of my bumper, and you can see I am pressing hard because my thumb is changing colors.

http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b376/mcperson2k/?action=view&current=53a2b3bd.mp4

[SHOdude]

Aren't most high quality body kits with fiberglass or polyurethane so that don't break or warp easily and will snap back into shape?

[mcperson2k]

Aren't most high quality body kits with fiberglass or polyurethane so that don't break or warp easily and will snap back into shape?

Not sure

[SHOdude]

Pulled this off of a body kit website:

"Pros and Cons of Polyurethane body kits:

As stated in the previous paragraph, polyurethane is a much more resilient material than fiberglass. Polyurethane kits tend to be thicker than most fiberglass kits, and weigh about the same in comparable thickness of kits. Urethane has a much more pliable consistancy which is an important factor in the installation of the kit. The rigitity of fiberglass almost certainly requires adjustments and alterations to the material when fitting the kit, while urethane tends to be able to flex into place. Urethane can also withstand much more of an impact than fiberglass.

The downside to urethane body kits is the cost in making a kit. For each and every piece, it costs about $4000 USD to create a mold, so for one body kit for one car, the cost for just the mold is $16,000. Given that there are thousands of styles of cars on the market and hundreds of styles of body kits, Polyurethane kits are much more rare to come by and usually only availible for the highly popularized import tuners."

[SHOdude]

We both know your brother had a probe and you have a civic. Doesn't sound like a wide variety of cars to me.

Unless you know this man personally this was a very condescending statement.

[mcperson2k]

Unless you know this man personally this was a very condescending statement.

Yep, hes stuck on that ever since I said my brother let me drive one of his cars to school and back when I got my license... Almost 10 years ago.

[Ender81]

Little more on topic please.

[SpEcRv9]

http://speedhunters.com/archive/2012/03/28/news-gt-gt-250hp-brz-sti-on-the-way.aspx

While it won't be the turbocharged monster that some were expecting, Atake says the STI would be powered by a tweaked version of the car's current NA boxer motor making around 250hp.

[Scapegoat]

http://speedhunters.com/archive/2012/03/28/news-gt-gt-250hp-brz-sti-on-the-way.aspx

interesting... 250hp in that car would be great. especially coming from that wittle 2l

[JB'sLGT]

Meh. Depends on where the torque numbers end up.

Still rather take the tuning potential of a turbo.

[Scapegoat]

excited to see how the NA STi motor handles boost w/o internal mods. should be fairly stout.

[jpalamar]

Isn't the compression a tad high for any good boosting? 12.5:1

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-subaru-brz-sports-car-first-drive-review

[Scapegoat]

Isn't the compression a tad high for any good boosting? 12.5:1

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-subaru-brz-sports-car-first-drive-review

maybe for the base model. who knows what the plan is for an NA sti.

i'm also not sure of the tech involved with this motor... but the new 5.0 in the mustang has a very high compression ratio as well, but is completely computer controller and can have the ratio reduced to safe FI levels.

if the 2L compression in the BRZ is capable of being altered like the mustang's, then it's NA compression ratio is a null point. but like i said, i don't know the tech involved with this specific motor

[mcperson2k]

The new WRX is going to use a turbo fa20 and their goal is 270HP. So I would think, many of these FR-S and BRZ's will see turbos in the future, even it isn't from the factory.

What ever happened to the swap aspect of this car? When talk of these guys first started getting popular, I know the manufactures were talking a lot about designing the car to make WRX and STI swaps very accessible but since the final version has been released, I haven't heard anything about it. Also with roll cages, they said they designed the interior so that no holes would need to be cut in the dash for a cage, is this still true as well?

[Chris B.]

Isn't the compression a tad high for any good boosting? 12.5:1

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-subaru-brz-sports-car-first-drive-review

There are quite a few 2011+ 5.0 Mustang owners putting down 650-900 HP at the wheels on pump gas with stock compression. With proper tuning high compression isn't an issue.

[Badsupra111]

Wow that makes me lose alot of respect for subarus :(

[mcperson2k]

Wow that makes me lose alot of respect for subarus :(

I truly feel sorry for you

[Scapegoat]

Wow that makes me lose alot of respect for subarus :(

why is that?

[Badsupra111]

Because ive driven those mustangs and they seem like such junk, my ex had one. I used to own an sti swapped wrx and loved it, but figured they would be ahead of the base model mustang on twisty tracks and what not atleast?....or am i reading something wrong?

[JB'sLGT]

Subaru didn't put much effort forth in their USDM suspension bits. I guess they felt Americans cared more about comfort than sport.

Their JDM market suspensions are incredibly more sporty than any of their USDM cars.

[WolfsFang]

Because ive driven those mustangs and they seem like such junk, my ex had one. I used to own an sti swapped wrx and loved it, but figured they would be ahead of the base model mustang on twisty tracks and what not atleast?....or am i reading something wrong?

im sure the brz/FRS can drift around the mustang while on the track....because race car.

[Badsupra111]

Subaru didn't put much effort forth in their USDM suspension bits. I guess they felt Americans cared more about comfort than sport.

Their JDM market suspensions are incredibly more sporty than any of their USDM cars.

Well im an american cuz this is america,,,,:lol:

[SpEcRv9]

or am i reading something wrong?

you're reading everything wrong, because this car was never meant to compete with the mustang.

[Scapegoat]

Because ive driven those mustangs and they seem like such junk, my ex had one. I used to own an sti swapped wrx and loved it, but figured they would be ahead of the base model mustang on twisty tracks and what not atleast?....or am i reading something wrong?

you're not making any sense. care to reconsider your response to why you're losing respect for subaru? has nothing to do with mustangs.

[Badsupra111]

Wtf do you not understand....from what i read on the first page the v6 mustang beat the sti, yes that is sad to me, i could care less if it was meant to compete with it...still sad. There are various other reasons ive slowly lost respect for subaru completely aside from the topic at hand but no matter how you say it, thats sad.

[Supraru]

Wtf do you not understand....from what i read on the first page the v6 mustang beat the sti, yes that is sad to me, i could care less if it was meant to compete with it...still sad. There are various other reasons ive slowly lost respect for subaru completely aside from the topic at hand but no matter how you say it, thats sad.

It didn't loose to a base v6. It lost to a v6 with every ford racing upgrade I imaginable. Ford has always been great with factory options. Subaru on the other hand is all aftermarket.

[mcperson2k]

It didn't loose to a base v6. It lost to a v6 with every ford racing upgrade I imaginable. Ford has always been great with factory options. Subaru on the other hand is all aftermarket.

-Strut tower brace
-Larger front sway bar and SVT rear sway bar
-Unique front springs
-Unique front and rear calipers with performance friction pads
-19inch painted aluminum wheels
-255/40R19 summer only tires
-Unique stability control calibration
-Gloss black side mirrors :lol:
-3.31 rear axle
-Unique engine cover for manual transmission only

[Chris B.]

It didn't loose to a base v6. It lost to a v6 with every ford racing upgrade I imaginable. Ford has always been great with factory options. Subaru on the other hand is all aftermarket.

Its far from every Ford racing part imaginable. Its all factory parts from the Mustang GT and a part(sway bar) from the GT500. It even still has the base model V6 mustang speed limiter.

Didn't we go over this back in 2011? Lets get back on topic here. What does this have to do with the BRZ exactly other than both cars cost about the same price?

[Supraru]

Its far from every Ford racing part imaginable. Its all factory parts from the Mustang GT and a part(sway bar) from the GT500. It even still has the base model V6 mustang speed limiter.

Didn't we go over this back in 2011? Lets get back on topic here. What does this have to do with the BRZ exactly other than both cars cost about the same price?

Well you're right about that. It's not every but as much that could be added on to severely change the handling and braking characteristics. It would be like me swapping my car with all sti parts and destroying cars far superior to mine of the track and say "oh you lost to a 2.5 Rs" when in actuality I really upgraded. To me at least kinda just seems like you're comparing cars that aren't how you can buy them from the showroom.

It has nothing to do with the brz but is apparently on topic to what is being talked about currently.

[Rado_VR6]

Well you're right about that. It's not every but as much that could be added on to severely change the handling and braking characteristics. It would be like me swapping my car with all sti parts and destroying cars far superior to mine of the track and say "oh you lost to a 2.5 Rs" when in actuality I really upgraded. To me at least kinda just seems like you're comparing cars that aren't how you can buy them from the showroom.

It has nothing to do with the brz but is apparently on topic to what is being talked about currently.

You have a point, it's apples to oranges.

[Chris B.]

Well you're right about that. It's not every but as much that could be added on to severely change the handling and braking characteristics. It would be like me swapping my car with all sti parts and destroying cars far superior to mine of the track and say "oh you lost to a 2.5 Rs" when in actuality I really upgraded. To me at least kinda just seems like you're comparing cars that aren't how you can buy them from the showroom.


The difference is you can buy a V6 Mustang with the performance package from the showroom. Its a 100% stock vehicle. 100% STOCK. No changes at all from when it rolled off the assembly line. It even has the stock base V6 speed limiter. Its sort of like comparing a base Impreza to an Impreza RS 2.5 RS and calling the Impreza 2.5 RS upgraded with aftermarket parts.


It has nothing to do with the brz but is apparently on topic to what is being talked about currently.


It really belongs in a different thread and the topic has been beat to death last year. Some people think a secretaries car with non secretaries car parts from the factory is somehow cheating when in fact thousands of them are made every year using 100% OEM parts from other vehicles in the same lineup. Its the same as Subaru offering a new 2.5 RS Impreza with WRX suspension bits, WRX wheels and tires, and a WRX STi sway bar with no upgrade in power.

[Supraru]

The difference is you can buy a V6 Mustang with the performance package from the showroom. Its a 100% stock vehicle. 100% STOCK. No changes at all from when it rolled off the assembly line. It even has the stock base V6 speed limiter. Its sort of like comparing a base Impreza to an Impreza RS 2.5 RS and calling the Impreza 2.5 RS upgraded with aftermarket parts.

You're seeing my point but you're just not getting that click in your brain. No matter how you want to twist words or if it was factory or not they are still major upgrades. I never disagree that what ford does in that category is bad at all. I think it's actually awesome. But in the end you'd be buying a v6 track package car. So whenever you bring it up you always brush it off like it got beat by just a v6 stang when in reality it got a major track package upgrade. Would you not agree on that? Do you really believe if subaru offered the same kind of treatment with stickier tires, bigger sways, and pads that bit harder the out come would be different?


It really belongs in a different thread and the topic has been beat to death last year. Some people think a secretaries car with non secretaries car parts from the factory is somehow cheating when in fact thousands of them are made every year using 100% OEM parts from other vehicles in the same lineup. Its the same as Subaru offering a new 2.5 RS Impreza with WRX suspension bits, WRX wheels and tires, and a WRX STi sway bar with no upgrade in power.

Again, I can throw all sti parts on my very light 2.5 rs (which I have plus some) go out and whoop on some Porsche's but you wouldn't see me act silly and say to them "hey man you just got beat by a stock subaru man". See my point? Most likely not since you to much of a fanboy to understand it.

That is the last I will say of this in the thread so we can stay on topic.

Yay brz fun!

[Chris B.]

You're seeing my point but you're just not getting that click in your brain.


I understand what you are saying, but it makes no sense.


No matter how you want to twist words or if it was factory or not they are still major upgrades.


So basically any car that doesn't come with drum brakes, a single barrel carb, and leaf springs is a major factory upgrade.


I never disagree that what ford does in that category is bad at all. I think it's actually awesome. But in the end you'd be buying a v6 track package car.


You are buying into the marketing that is calling it a track package car. Ford actually had a contest to name the options package that is now called the track package. Some of the other top contenders were Stallion package and something else horse related. I think one of the other popular entries that received some votes was the Wild Pony or Buckin` Pony package.


So whenever you bring it up you always brush it off like it got beat by just a v6 stang when in reality it got a major track package upgrade.


Its not a major track package upgrade. Its marketing at its finest, mainly putting Mustang GT suspension bits, wheels, and tires on a V6 Mustang. Would your attitude be the same if it was called the Stallion package?

Its basically saying that a BMW 3 series with the handling package or the Volvo C30 with the Sport Chassis option has major track prepped upgrades. They don't and neither does the V6 Mustang. Its an option package for those that don't want the extra comfortable ride to the library and enjoy the occasional turn.


Would you not agree on that?


Nope I don't agree on it. Does that mean every Mustang GT is a track prepped car since the V6 "track package" has mostly Mustang GT suspension bits and the optional 19" Mustang California Special wheels and tires?


Do you really believe if subaru offered the same kind of treatment with stickier tires, bigger sways, and pads that bit harder the out come would be different?


Sure and I'd recommend Subaru do that before Ford decides to put the GT driveshaft on the V6 and remove the speed limiter.


Again, I can throw all sti parts on my very light 2.5 rs (which I have plus some) go out and whoop on some Porsche's but you wouldn't see me act silly and say to them "hey man you just got beat by a stock subaru man". See my point? Most likely not since you to much of a fanboy to understand it.


You are talking about something completely different. You are talking about major upgrades with non factory optional parts for that specific model. What you are talking about is like doing a suspension and drivetrain swap from a BMW M3 into a 325 and not a stock 325 with the factory optional handling package or sport package.

I really laughed at the fanboy part. Especially since I'm probably one of the least brand loyal people around when it comes to cars. I've owned Porsches, Plymouths, Oldsmobiles, Chevys, etc... and enjoyed them all. I'm just very knowledgable about what I drive. I almost bought a WRX once and almsot bought a WRX STI recently instead of another Mustang.


That is the last I will say of this in the thread so we can stay on topic.

Yay brz fun!


If I win Mega Millions tonight I'll buy a bunch of us BRZ's so we all can have fun!

[Supraru]

I understand what you are saying, but it makes no sense.



So basically any car that doesn't come with drum brakes, a single barrel carb, and leaf springs is a major factory upgrade.



You are buying into the marketing that is calling it a track package car. Ford actually had a contest to name the options package that is now called the track package. Some of the other top contenders were Stallion package and something else horse related. I think one of the other popular entries that received some votes was the Wild Pony or Buckin` Pony package.



Its not a major track package upgrade. Its marketing at its finest, mainly putting Mustang GT suspension bits, wheels, and tires on a V6 Mustang. Would your attitude be the same if it was called the Stallion package?

Its basically saying that a BMW 3 series with the handling package or the Volvo C30 with the Sport Chassis option has major track prepped upgrades. They don't and neither does the V6 Mustang. Its an option package for those that don't want the extra comfortable ride to the library and enjoy the occasional turn.



Nope I don't agree on it. Does that mean every Mustang GT is a track prepped car since the V6 "track package" has mostly Mustang GT suspension bits and the optional 19" Mustang California Special wheels and tires?



Sure and I'd recommend Subaru do that before Ford decides to put the GT driveshaft on the V6 and remove the speed limiter.



You are talking about something completely different. You are talking about major upgrades with non factory optional parts for that specific model. What you are talking about is like doing a suspension and drivetrain swap from a BMW M3 into a 325 and not a stock 325 with the factory optional handling package or sport package.

I really laughed at the fanboy part. Especially since I'm probably one of the least brand loyal people around when it comes to cars. I've owned Porsches, Plymouths, Oldsmobiles, Chevys, etc... and enjoyed them all. I'm just very knowledgable about what I drive. I almost bought a WRX once and almsot bought a WRX STI recently instead of another Mustang.



If I win Mega Millions tonight I'll buy a bunch of us BRZ's so we all can have fun!

I get enough points for posting off topic do like I said I'm done here.

I played my $5 for megamillions as well. I swear the lottery is a scam!

[mcperson2k]

So the standard features of both cars have been released (I'm too lazy to link them), and if the BRZ is at 26k like people are predicting, the BRZ seems like the better buy. For 1k more, you get the Nav, and the HID headlights, plus some other little odds and ends. I still can't get passed the front bumper of the BRZ though, the FR-S bumper looks so much better IMO.

[Chris B.]

So the standard features of both cars have been released (I'm too lazy to link them), and if the BRZ is at 26k like people are predicting, the BRZ seems like the better buy. For 1k more, you get the Nav, and the HID headlights, plus some other little odds and ends. I still can't get passed the front bumper of the BRZ though, the FR-S bumper looks so much better IMO.

I wonder if all the body panels and mounting points are the same so that you can switch bumpers?

[mcperson2k]

I wonder if all the body panels and mounting points are the same so that you can switch bumpers?

From what I have been reading (which is speculation, because some of it is recent, and some a few months old), the side of the headlights, that point to the center of the car, is more narrow on the FR-S than it is on the BRZ, so they aren't interchangeable.

[Badsupra111]

Regardless of peformance subarus are getting uglier and uglier :-/

[Khellen]

Wtf do you not understand....from what i read on the first page the v6 mustang beat the sti, yes that is sad to me, i could care less if it was meant to compete with it...still sad. There are various other reasons ive slowly lost respect for subaru completely aside from the topic at hand but no matter how you say it, thats sad.

I can appreciate that you read the first page of the thread but.....you do realize we are on page 30 right?

Also, Toyota designed the styling of the BRZ. So if you're going to be upset about the styling direct it at Toyota...not Subaru.

(Subaru does design some horrendously ugly cars as of late though)

[Supraru]

Wtf do you not understand....from what i read on the first page the v6 mustang beat the sti, yes that is sad to me, i could care less if it was meant to compete with it...still sad. There are various other reasons ive slowly lost respect for subaru completely aside from the topic at hand but no matter how you say it, thats sad.

Easy solution.....don't buy a Subaru. I'm sure they don't care about you.

[davin]

This new car has jumped the shark. IE: Toyota Matrix. But has a lot of hype.

[WolfsFang]

This new car has jumped the shark. IE: Toyota Matrix. But has a lot of hype.

i have no idea what this means?

[SHOdude]

this ? http://gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=960734&t=o (http://gifsoup.com/view/960734/jump-the-shark.html)

[Ender81]

Easy solution.....don't buy a Subaru. I'm sure they don't care about you.

And to think I thought I would never agree with you on something Subaru related lol.

[jpalamar]

Also, Toyota designed the styling of the BRZ. So if you're going to be upset about the styling direct it at Toyota...not Subaru.

Subaru accepted it... therefore if it is ugly it is their fault.

[davin]

i have no idea what this means?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jump%20the%20shark

This car has had too much hype. It would probably get a little more attention from me if it had a turbo, but this is nothing better than an Impreza RS. The D1 of this car even got rid of the engine and put in a v8.

[Scapegoat]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jump%20the%20shark

you've used the term in the wrong situation. it is meant to imply that something that currently exists, and has existed for a bit of time, has irrevocably changed for the worse after a specific moment.

this car does not exist for the consumer yet, therefore the usage of "jump the shark" is impossible... because it never got on the water skis.

[Supraru]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jump%20the%20shark

This car has had too much hype. It would probably get a little more attention from me if it had a turbo, but this is nothing better than an Impreza RS. The D1 of this car even got rid of the engine and put in a v8.

The brz is clearly better then an Rs. 35 more hp, rwd so less drivetrain loss and just as light. Oh yeah don't forget it handles (only through articles) damn near as good as a Porsche caymen which had big hype for handling better then a 911 when it was released. It's still going to be fun to drive.

[Khellen]

Subaru accepted it... therefore if it is ugly it is their fault.

Something tells me it was more of a "well, they are making us build it anyways....so we might as well throw our badge on it too" situation.

Something else to think about ......if this wasn't the case why were their FRS concepts out 6 months to a year before the BRZ? It seems to me Subaru just took the toyota body, did a few styling quirks to be able to tell the two apart, and called it a day.

As I said before, I'm not denying Subaru has been making some extremely ugly cars as of late but I don't think they can take credit (good or bad) for this car's styling.

[mcperson2k]

^^^ If you don't remember, when Toyota was showcasing the body of the concept FR-S, which they designed, Subaru was showcasing all the mechanical aspects of the car, which they designed, in a clear body.

I highly doubt Subaru invested tens of millions of dollars into a car which they didn't agree upon the looks of.

[jpalamar]

I highly doubt Subaru invested tens of millions of dollars into a car which they didn't agree upon the looks of.

Holy crap... common sense. Black hole forming in the interwebz now.

[Supraru]

The rumor was that Toyota gave them 500 cars. Can't say it's valid or not but that's just one point of view. If you're given them and sell them it's profit.

[WolfsFang]

ill just leave this here, this might be the best review i have ever read.
BRZ DRIVEN FULL REVIEW with pics of lowered BRZ
At first when it was announced that Subaru and Toyoya were to collaborate on a rear wheel drive sports car I honestly didn’t pay attention nor did I want to be bothered by the thought. For years it seemed cars from the Far East start as an awesome idea and by the time it gets to our shores it’s very watered down and becomes apparent that someone in Japan had a very different idea of what Americans would want.

This "watering" down effect for the average enthusiast is always felt in the handling and braking areas. Add in the traditional factory awd handling and added weight and we are left with a platform that “has potential". To the average enthusiast you can tell the "passion" of the car was lost in corporate decisions and it left you wondering "what were they thinking?".

The passion of the new BRZ sports car from Subaru was not only retained but was THE primary focus. This is evident as you approach the car. From the carved roof line that provides additional head room for driver and passenger, the hood bulges just over the front wheel arches, to the front nose that is meant to slice through the air with a high level of efficiency. Your mind processes these things in milliseconds and it’s NOT the same as seeing it at the car show. At the car show you are 5-6 months away from driving it,.... if your wife says you can get one, ..if you can afford it....but at 25 grand.......you can ! Its at that moment that a voice says “you’re getting this". You feel like a kid who sees the BMX bike or a skateboard in the store and has already mastered it.

From the first second you stand near this car.....off of the stage at your local new car show, its very much "game on" and your throat swallows as your senses are alerted that something great has happened here. You won’t notice but anyone around you will notice,.. your smile...and I don’t mean the controlled smile when you take your driver’s license picture...I mean the smile you have as you day dream about hitting the lottery ! THAT SMILE! That uncontrollable smile of pure happiness. Total elapsed time.......2 seconds.

These feelings consume me as images of all the fun things in life flashed before me. My dad driving his 450SEL 6.9 around a long sweeper when I was young to show me how well independent suspension cars handle, sliding my mom’s 280Z in the rain in 10th grade or the first few miles of my new 87 Golf GTi. But as quickly as that happens all of the things I have learned as a driver, instructor and racer also came to mind and then the big drums and theatrical music starting playing in the Grand Turismo music track in my head.

Whether you are short or tall as you stand before the car you realize its overall height is LOW. There is a feeling of "OMG what have I got myself into" that admittedly gets the adrenalin pumping. As you slide down into the low sitting coupe there are NO feelings of familiarity from ANY Subaru of the past. Your body slides into the most supportive, heavily bolstered seats of any Subaru I can ever remember. My 6 ft 2 frame, size 38 waist had no problem feeling immediately at home. Anyone who has ever sat in a Formula car or open wheel car will be very reminded of this seating and foot position because your butt is sitting LOW and you feel as though the pedals are "hung" from the fire wall and your heels are on the floor which promotes an INSTANT "fast feeling". Right away you notice the pedals are placed perfectly for heel and toe action. For anyone who never learned now it will be MUCH easier.

As you extend your hands over the steering wheel adjusting it outward or up for tall drivers, you quickly notice you have room for proper hand placement and full range of motion. But the biggest thing you notice is you are UNDER the wheel and the under dash area has a lot of room for say a 34inch inseam in this situation. Steering wheel and gear shifter location are spaced for sport driving and the shifter is in front of the wheel. Undoubtedly the Miata was the king for stock shortest shifter throw but those days are over! The only effort needed to shift this car is with your wrist.

While taking all of this in your eyes fall upon the red “push start” button. And for once you feel as though there was someone on the board of directors or project managers who is ACTUALLY a “car guy”(or gal).
With your left hand on the much smaller than EVER steering wheel, and the remote in your pocket you push the RED start button and the small direct injection 2.0 liter, Boxer engine comes to life. Nothing earth shattering but it revs freely right off of idle. To the “mod hungry” group of enthusiast you instantly imagine a light weight flywheel and firmer clutch …except…….the clutch feels VERY good. The motor revs very fast and is responsive. The motor does NOT have the boxer rumble but does sound aggressive.

There is no “reaching” for the shifter as it’s easily within reach and pushing the lever into first gear proves to be a very short commute from neutral. This is the first real hint of what you have “gotten yourself into”.

As I pull out of the parking space the first thing I notice is I am NOT turning the steering wheel like a mass transit bus driver. Instead my left hand drops from the 9 o clock position to the 6 o clock position and I am reminded of an 05 STI with a Quik Rack ! The 13:1 rack is electronic and the steering feel is medium weight. Imagine Miata meets Lotus Elise, meets Porsche 911!

My initial curiosity was to press the gas pedal to the floor to see how the 200hp, high revving motor feels, but I resisted. First I started turning the steering wheel to see how responsive it is. ITS RESPONSIVE ! Its amazing what happens when you remove front axles and a differential. Immediately you notice the absence of body roll. Your brain says..” how can this be?”. Then the advertised lower CG than a Ferrari 458 comes to mind and you look for the closest exit ramp.

Turn in is cerebral like. NO REALLY…..its unlike ANY Subaru I have ever driven. That includes the GC8 STI Type RA with factory goodies etc. Mind you my wife and I met at a Subaru dealer and we have owned 13 Subaru’s since 2000. The list includes 04 STI, 06 Legacy Spec-B, 2001 2.5Rs, 2011 WRX and many more. NONE were left stock and ALL had extensive suspension and brake work. ALL were tracked at some point in time. I only say this to validate my opinion of the STOCK steering in the BRZ.

Simply put: Subaru hit this out of the park! The steering is this car means you can put this car EXACTLY where you want it. The stock Michelin Primacy’s will fool you. These tires have a VERY stiff sidewall and in typical Michelin fashion, are surprisingly supportive for a 215/45-17.

Some will do the crazy wheel and tires sizes and some will go for “less equals more”. The factory knew this and have rolled the fenders for you. With the wheels off you quickly realize you will be able to fit a 10inch wide wheel in the back. But remember at 200hp and 2700lbs anything above a 245 probably will never get warm enough for good traction! This platform is efficient. Everything the factory did was to save weight and make the best use of the power to weight ratio.

Borrowing from the multi link rear suspension of the previous and current generation Impreza and WRX platforms the rear suspension I am told has various pillow ball mounts for a more “positive handling car”.
14mm rear sway bar, reverse front WRX control arms, no pitch stop mount and motor mounts that are seemingly WRX like…….make up the short list of distinctive differences this car has underneath.
No front eccentric bolts means stock class auto-crossers have their work cut out for them. But that’s just it….this car STOCK on a twisty road will RUN AWAY from a stage 2 STi. How you might ask?

2749 lbs with full tank, 2714 lbs with spare tire removed and 2650 lbs with 1/8 of a tank means this car weighs 150lbs less than a 2000 Impreza 2.5 RS, has 35 more horsepower ,no front axles to push, and does this thing called………TURN !!! The BRZ turns like the best of them. I have driven a lot of cars over the years and by default instructed a lot of students (which means you have to take them for 3 laps in their car before you turn it over to them) in all of the latest and greatest. This car will dominate at autocrossing. Track day drivers will love it because unlike the AWD platform of the WRX and STI this car has CRISP turn in, allows you to get on the gas BEFORE the apex and tracks out with an amazing amount of confidence. AGAIN……all from a stock car.

Less weight means less to stop. The brake pedal is hard and feels like an EVO with stainless steel lines ! No more mushy pedal even after you do braided lines and good fluid. Under hard braking the car is planted. The first thing you think is….”why would you get a big brake kit?”. Front rotors are same as 2011 WRX. Rear brakes also 2011 WRX-like. This car stops very well. Consider these brakes come on a car with about 70more horsepower and weighs 550 lbs more. It stops.

Oh and the power. 200hp in a 2700 lb car on paper isn’t a big deal. What Subaru has done is they have made this car handle so well that as soon as the road turns……the power becomes far more usable than say a 300hp AWD STI. Keep in mind I drove my 300whp 2011 WRX to pick up the BRZ. My WRX has STOPTECH brakes, Pagid pads, Bilstein shocks, sway bars, steering rack bushings and Michelin Pilot Supersports. The BRZ’s ability to make use of the power you can put down is the key. Gone are the days of turn in…WAIT……then get back on the gas, then track out. Now its FAR more fluid like. It reminds me of a go kart in the sense that you come in hot, trail brake, crank in the amount of steering input you need and the car gives it to you as you sweep past the apex and then track out WITHOUT upsetting the “rhythm” of cornering. Most racers know that the reality of “slow in fast out” becomes fast in, “gather it up “then fast out ! This is true with this car. I do think that it rewards an experienced driver but would also allow a novice to have fun and learn the limits. Yes the factory did design some understeer into this equation….BUT…….before you get mad with visions of -3.9 degrees of front camber…….the understeer this car has is LESS than a older chassis GC Impreza with ALL of the caster and camber tricks.

The reality is this car is amazing. Some will buy it and do a turbo kit with 700whp, some with buy it and do stock level autocrossing. For me this car is so refreshing with its handling and agility that power just isn’t the focus. Yes it could use some more power but it more than makes up for it with handling, braking and “FEELING”. One thing is for certain, nothing in my recent memory feels as good as a BRZ.




Myles Williams
Racecomp Engineering/GTWORX

[mcperson2k]

Holy crap... common sense. Black hole forming in the interwebz now.

Yeah, maybe if I just said that as a statement... However it was a response to Khellen's thought on why the Subaru BRZ is ugly... Hence the "^^^". I guess I will just always use the quote feature from now on, since apparently some people need pictures.

[jpalamar]

Yeah, maybe if I just said that as a statement... However it was a response to Khellen's thought on why the Subaru BRZ is ugly... Hence the "^^^". I guess I will just always use the quote feature from now on, since apparently some people need pictures.

I agree with you and you basicallly say I'm stupid? Maybe you need pictures.

[Khellen]

^^^ If you don't remember, when Toyota was showcasing the body of the concept FR-S, which they designed, Subaru was showcasing all the mechanical aspects of the car, which they designed, in a clear body.


I do remember. What I meant to say is Subaru never released a body concept until 6 months to a year AFTER the FRS was being shown at every show. Why? Probably because they didn't want to steal Toyota's thunder since it was their design. Just like Toyota wasn't show casing what was under the hood since that was Subaru's part of the project.

I highly doubt Subaru invested tens of millions of dollars into a car which they didn't agree upon the looks of.


The car's design was inspired by previous Toyota sports cars including the Toyota Sports 800, Toyota 2000GT, and Toyota AE86.[23]


Why would Subaru design a car with styling ques from Toyotas? Of course they okay'd it.....Toyota is a major stockholder in their company. (20%)

The only thing on the BRZ that looks even remotely like the Subaru is the fenders.

Don't misunderstand what I'm saying....I think they BRZ looks nice. I actually like the looks of the car. Mostly because Subaru didn't design it. I'm just arguing the fact that they didn't have a very big say in what the car looks like.

[mcperson2k]

I agree with you and you basicallly say I'm stupid? Maybe you need pictures.

http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/f5c/2f7/05b/resized/so-sorry-meme-generator-i-is-sorry-30ee62.jpg

[marshallpre1]

Who gives a **** exaclty who designed what. It has received essentially universal praise from magazines implying it is a fantastic car. We should care more about the fact that Toyota/Subaru went back to designing a driver's car!

[WolfsFang]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jump%20the%20shark

This car has had too much hype. It would probably get a little more attention from me if it had a turbo, but this is nothing better than an Impreza RS. The D1 of this car even got rid of the engine and put in a v8.

what are you talking about? The D1 car uses a EJ boxer engine.

[mcperson2k]

BRZ Priced at 25,495 making it a better buy than FR-S! IMO

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/subaru-of-america-announces-pricing-for-2013-brz-2012-04-05

[Jah1mon]

Price is pretty good, this is worth checking out if the aftermarket treats this thing kindly.

[mcperson2k]

Price is pretty good, this is worth checking out if the aftermarket treats this thing kindly.

One of the bigger companies, forget which. Is already offering a complete kit for a cosworth crate swap. 335hp minimum.

[Jah1mon]

One of the bigger companies, forget which. Is already offering a complete kit for a cosworth crate swap. 335hp minimum.

Aw you're right tunehouse.com will be offering the kit. I'm also trying to find out if a EJ drops in easily. That would be the easest way to make power.

I wish Nissan would follow suit with making a small coupe like Toyota/Subaru. That way I wouldn't be so tempted to sell my 240sx for this car.

[WolfsFang]

The aftermarket is going to be huge for this car. They already got cams, coilivers, and much more for this car.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

[mcperson2k]

Aw you're right tunehouse.com will be offering the kit. I'm also trying to find out if a EJ drops in easily. That would be the easest way to make power.

I wish Nissan would follow suit with making a small coupe like Toyota/Subaru. That way I wouldn't be so tempted to sell my 240sx for this car.

Funny you said that because I just saw this today... http://www.torquenews.com/1084/new-smaller-370z-works-nissan

[c7scayman]

As written in this new FR-S test article: http://www.insideline.com/scion/fr-s/2013/2013-scion-fr-s-full-test.html

"Oh, and according to Tada-san, the twins will undergo continual updates on an annual basis, similar to the approach Nissan takes with the GT-R."

That might mean it will have power boosts every year. That is good possible news.

[Scapegoat]

i doubt they'll boost power every year. why would anyone buy the car this year if that happens? it'll probably get tweaks here and there as time goes on and the car gets tested out in the real world. which is great

[Habs24 7]

OK,let's see, RWD check, 50/50 weight ratio check, great handling check, not the most powerful car on the planet check, 4 seats check, A DRIVERS CAR check. Sounds just like my RX8 ( without the steady diet of oil and low MPG, although the 9K redline is a blast:thumbup:) Welcome to the club!!!!!!!!!!!

[c7scayman]

OK,let's see, RWD check, 50/50 weight ratio check, great handling check, not the most powerful car on the planet check, 4 seats check, A DRIVERS CAR check. Sounds just like my RX8 ( without the steady diet of oil and low MPG, although the 9K redline is a blast:thumbup:) Welcome to the club!!!!!!!!!!!

Apparently, it is 55% front/45% rear weight distribution. Because the steering rack did not fit with the lower Boxer engine, they needed to push the engine towards the front like 5 or 6 inches to get the clearance for the steering rack. Still handles great though. Close enough to 50/50.

[Supraru]

OK,let's see, RWD check, 50/50 weight ratio check, great handling check, not the most powerful car on the planet check, 4 seats check, A DRIVERS CAR check. Sounds just like my RX8 ( without the steady diet of oil and low MPG, although the 9K redline is a blast:thumbup:) Welcome to the club!!!!!!!!!!!

Rx8's suck. Brz will be a fun car that handles very well.

[Chris B.]

OK,let's see, RWD check, 50/50 weight ratio check, great handling check, not the most powerful car on the planet check, 4 seats check, A DRIVERS CAR check. Sounds just like my RX8 ( without the steady diet of oil and low MPG, although the 9K redline is a blast:thumbup:) Welcome to the club!!!!!!!!!!!

The main difference is the RX-8 gets fuel mileage similar to an old 1/2 ton pickup truck and the FRS/BRZ gets fuel mileage that's actually acceptable for a daily driver.

[Habs24 7]

Nice to see Subaru got it right this time. BRZ a huge improvement over the XT6 & SVX

[Khellen]

Apparently, it is 55% front/45% rear weight distribution. Because the steering rack did not fit with the lower Boxer engine, they needed to push the engine towards the front like 5 or 6 inches to get the clearance for the steering rack. Still handles great though. Close enough to 50/50.

The video I watched with one of the engineers of the BRZ stated that the 55% / 45% weight distribution was used to make the rear end come out a little bit easier.

The engineer finished by saying if the BRZ had more power...say 300....he would have prefered a 50/50 weight distribution.

[rocknrace03]

http://www.consult-me.eu/subaru-brz-toyota-hoyas-2013.php this is pretty neat, 360 of interior and some outside view as well

[Supraru]

Nice to see Subaru got it right this time. BRZ a huge improvement over the XT6 & SVX

As far as sports coupes sure but one would also say for the size of the company the wrx was a pretty big hit. While there were turner turbo vehicles out before it there was none that boomed the import market like the release of the wrx. Hell that thing sold like hot cakes and it looks like a neon. From there we saw cars like the Evo, srt-4, mazdaspeed protoge/miata/3/6, and I'm sure there are more I missed but you get the point. After the wrx the flood gates opened for reasonably priced 4 cylinder turbo sporty type cars.

[Scapegoat]

You mean the flood gates opened after the 80's era dodge and early 90's dsm turbos

[Supraru]

You mean the flood gates opened after the 80's era dodge and early 90's dsm turbos

False. If that were the case there would have been more put out there. Also late 90's eclipses were far to over priced. Subaru put out an affordable tuner car and then boom everyone put out an affordable turbo tuner car. Proof is in the numbers.

[Scapegoat]

False. If that were the case there would have been more put out there. Also late 90's eclipses were far to over priced. Subaru put out an affordable tuner car and then boom everyone put out an affordable turbo tuner car. Proof is in the numbers.

the wrx did not open the flood gates... it did not pave the way for other turbo 4's to be successful in the american market.

Dodge clearly paved that road. there were far more available turbo models in existence prior to the release of the wrx than after. the dsm crowd wouldnt exist w/o the 2.2l turbo dodges popping up in the mid mid 80's.

i'm not saying the wrx wouldn't have been as popular as it is now if dodge never released the 2.2l turbo. but the wrx didnt start things off.

[Supraru]

As far as sports coupes sure but one would also say for the size of the company the wrx was a pretty big hit. While there were turner turbo vehicles out before it there was none that boomed the import market like the release of the wrx. Hell that thing sold like hot cakes and it looks like a neon. From there we saw cars like the Evo, srt-4, mazdaspeed protoge/miata/3/6, and I'm sure there are more I missed but you get the point. After the wrx the flood gates opened for reasonably priced 4 cylinder turbo sporty type cars.

the wrx did not open the flood gates... it did not pave the way for other turbo 4's to be successful in the american market.

Dodge clearly paved that road. there were far more available turbo models in existence prior to the release of the wrx than after. the dsm crowd wouldnt exist w/o the 2.2l turbo dodges popping up in the mid mid 80's.

i'm not saying the wrx wouldn't have been as popular as it is now if dodge never released the 2.2l turbo. but the wrx didnt start things off.

You should reread my statement instead of random words in a paragraph.

[Chris B.]

After driving the FR-S on Saturday, I have to say the FR-S/BRZ is going to be a fun car. The ones I drove had the TRD/Eibach springs, TRD exhaust, aftermarket Enkei wheels, and Yokohama S-Drive tires. The S-Drive tires will be a factory or dealer option with the TRD 18" wheels. The springs will be a dealer option. Unfortunately both cars were autotragic transmission models. In auto mode its awful. In manumatic mode its not so bad. I was disappointed that all four of the FR-S cars available to drive were modified. I want to know what the stock model feels like. The seating position is comfortable and the seats are supportive. The wheel and shifter seem to be positioned pretty close to perfect.

Due to the recent rain, it was easy to exceed the limits of the tires on the wet asphalt. I drove the FR-S after 20 minutes of pouring rain. You definitely have to be smooth with your inputs. I'm glad the traction control and stability control defaults to ON when you start the car because many inexperienced buyers of the car would be spinning the car without those features on. The car rotates easily and I'm sure it would rotate too easily without stability control.

Overall, its a well balanced and its very responsive to steering inputs. I'm use to driving a 3400+ lb car on the track and it the FR-S felt like a gokart. The power probably would be more than adequate with the manual transmission. The automatic seemed slow to downshift and the transmission always assumed that if you eased up on the throttle, you wanted a high gear for good fuel economy. If the auto trans programming could be updated with aftermarket tuning, it wouldn't be bad. Contrary to popular belief, an adult can fit int he back seat without getting their legs crushed. I'm 5'9" and when I adjusted the seat to the position I found comfortable, a friend who is a little taller than me could sit int he back seat without his kneed pressed against the seat back. Contrary to some speculation, you don't need your knees in your armpits if you are sitting in the back seat.

Would I buy one? Maybe... The interior room and storage space is a little small for my needs and lets face it, if you don't need a NEW car, $25K buys one hell of a 914 or nice used Corvette or a tow vehicle, trailer, and used race car. I always wanted a factory Miata coupe and they never were sold here. The FR-S/BRZ are the closest I can get to that. I will say that anyone that buys one to drive it will really enjoy it.

[WolfsFang]

Got a call from the dealer, they said only a few more weeks.

[novec64]

Had the chance to autocross 2 of them on Saturday as well. Impressive is an understatement. I can't wait to own one!

http://i349.photobucket.com/albums/q391/novec64/e62a87dc.jpg?t=1336254674
http://i349.photobucket.com/albums/q391/novec64/2392faae.jpg?t=1336254668

[mcperson2k]

^^^ Yeah those are the ones that the First86 winners got to track. I guess they finally made their way to the east coast. I am still trying to figure out if I want one of these, or a used e46 m3, or used 06 Evo. I am just a little hesitant, because even though its a great car, its still a lot of money for what you get. I am also looking at new GTI's.. I figure, I don't race my cars, and I am not a race car driver... I like to push cars, but to my own limitations, not necessarily the cars limitations. So I am guessing for ME, both cars will have equal performance values on the street.

[marshallpre1]

After driving the FR-S on Saturday, I have to say the FR-S/BRZ is going to be a fun car. The ones I drove had the TRD/Eibach springs, TRD exhaust, aftermarket Enkei wheels, and Yokohama S-Drive tires. The S-Drive tires will be a factory or dealer option with the TRD 18" wheels. The springs will be a dealer option. Unfortunately both cars were autotragic transmission models. In auto mode its awful. In manumatic mode its not so bad. I was disappointed that all four of the FR-S cars available to drive were modified. I want to know what the stock model feels like. The seating position is comfortable and the seats are supportive. The wheel and shifter seem to be positioned pretty close to perfect.

Due to the recent rain, it was easy to exceed the limits of the tires on the wet asphalt. I drove the FR-S after 20 minutes of pouring rain. You definitely have to be smooth with your inputs. I'm glad the traction control and stability control defaults to ON when you start the car because many inexperienced buyers of the car would be spinning the car without those features on. The car rotates easily and I'm sure it would rotate too easily without stability control.

Overall, its a well balanced and its very responsive to steering inputs. I'm use to driving a 3400+ lb car on the track and it the FR-S felt like a gokart. The power probably would be more than adequate with the manual transmission. The automatic seemed slow to downshift and the transmission always assumed that if you eased up on the throttle, you wanted a high gear for good fuel economy. If the auto trans programming could be updated with aftermarket tuning, it wouldn't be bad. Contrary to popular belief, an adult can fit int he back seat without getting their legs crushed. I'm 5'9" and when I adjusted the seat to the position I found comfortable, a friend who is a little taller than me could sit int he back seat without his kneed pressed against the seat back. Contrary to some speculation, you don't need your knees in your armpits if you are sitting in the back seat.

Would I buy one? Maybe... The interior room and storage space is a little small for my needs and lets face it, if you don't need a NEW car, $25K buys one hell of a 914 or nice used Corvette or a tow vehicle, trailer, and used race car. I always wanted a factory Miata coupe and they never were sold here. The FR-S/BRZ are the closest I can get to that. I will say that anyone that buys one to drive it will really enjoy it.

Love the review. Nice to hear from someone with experience driving on the track. Can't wait to get a chance to drive it as well.

[Chris B.]

A few photos added to my earlier review.

I showed up a little before 3 PM on Saturday to a small patch of rain over Baltimore that was soaking the FT86 First Drive event.
http://zx2.org/images/ft86/ft86-rain.jpg

After a 20 minute delay, they let us drive the cars. Apparently they didn't want us driving in the rain.
http://zx2.org/images/ft86/ft86-black.jpg

The instrument cluster is simple and easy to read.
http://zx2.org/images/ft86/ft86-dash.jpg

Contrary to popular belief and internet speculation, a full sized adult fits in the back seat. I adjusted the seat to a comfortable driving position for me with a friend in the back seat. For reference, I'm 5'9" and the car fit me well.
http://zx2.org/images/ft86/ft86-adult-back-seat.jpg

Here is a photo of my legs in the back seat with the front seat adjusted for me.
http://zx2.org/images/ft86/ft86-me-backseat.jpg

Also, a full sized adult fits comfortably in the trunk. While he was in the trunk, Ryan said he though you could fit two or three dead hookers in the trunk.
http://zx2.org/images/ft86/ft-86-ryan-trunk.jpg

[marshallpre1]

Chris, would you mind me quoting your post and posting it on supraforums?

Thanks

[Chris B.]

Chris, would you mind me quoting your post and posting it on supraforums?


Feel free to quote it and put it on other forums.

[Khellen]

Also, a full sized adult fits comfortably in the trunk. While he was in the trunk, Ryan said he though you could fit two or three dead hookers in the trunk.


That's a relief...I have to tie them to the roof whenever I drive my miata.

It's a shame the cars weren't manual Chris.....great review!

[Chris B.]

I'm also pretty sure the aftermarket Enkei wheels on the car were are somewhere in the 35mm-45mm offset range. However, I didn't get a good look at the back of the wheel to get the exact number.

I also forgot to mention there isn't much need to roll the fenders. The wheel arch metal is cut out behind the lip to allow for extra clearance.

[SHOdude]

That's a relief...I have to tie them to the roof whenever I drive my miata.!

I lol'd :mrgreen:

[Supraholic]

Sorry for the late reply guys. Its been pretty crazy. I was there along with Chris B. as well.

Ok, let's talk about FR-S! I'll try to keep it to the point and simply point out things that havent been talked about here already. If you have any questions let me know.

Here we go! My wife and I arrived at the event about 10 min early, proceeded to sign up, and were presented with a cool FR-S hat! +1 Scion! I don't have pictures of the hat but I can take a pic if you guys want me to.

After registration, we started looking around and talking to the staff about the car and the event. Here's something I didn't know - It comes with a 2 year maintenance program! You pay nothing on maintenance for 2 years - Every Scion gets it. Anyways, a few minutes after we got there it started raining. Our session got delayed for about 20 min. When the rain seized, they proceeded to enlighten us with their knowledge about the car and of course track rules. See below:

Click on image to enlarge.
http://supraholics.com/FRS/IMG_2793_SMALL.jpg (http://supraholics.com/FRS/IMG_2793.jpg)

Let me tell you about the cars at the event - There were 4 of them and they were all equally tuned. A Hot Lava, a Raven Black, Firestorm red, and I forget the name of the white one. They all had Enkei wheels with Yokohama 225 tires all around. TRD 1.2" lowering springs and TRD Catback exhaust. They were all automatics as well, unfortunately. All these options will be available through Scion except the Enkei wheels. They used Enkei wheels because the TRD wheels are still in development.

Click on image to enlarge.
http://supraholics.com/FRS/IMG_2783_SMALL.jpg (http://supraholics.com/FRS/IMG_2783.jpg)

Click on image to enlarge.
http://supraholics.com/FRS/IMG_2786_SMALL.jpg (http://supraholics.com/FRS/IMG_2786.jpg)

If you take note from the pic below, this car likes being lowered. The arms are perfectly flat even though it has been lowered 1.2" already.

Click on image to enlarge.
http://supraholics.com/FRS/IMG_2789_SMALL.jpg (http://supraholics.com/FRS/IMG_2789.jpg)

The interior is quite impressive at this price point. I actually enjoy being inside this car more than a Ferrari California! My wife says she's quite impressed and she doesn't really like the interior in sports cars. She was expecting the car to be uncomfortable.

Click on image to enlarge.
http://supraholics.com/FRS/IMG_2790_SMALL.jpg (http://supraholics.com/FRS/IMG_2790.jpg)


Click on image to enlarge.
http://supraholics.com/FRS/IMG_2792_SMALL.jpg (http://supraholics.com/FRS/IMG_2792.jpg)


Click on image to enlarge.
http://supraholics.com/FRS/IMG_2794_SMALL.jpg (http://supraholics.com/FRS/IMG_2794.jpg)

Pointing out aerodynamics features such as this - Look at the red arrow.

Click on image to enlarge.
http://supraholics.com/FRS/IMG_2796_SMALL.jpg (http://supraholics.com/FRS/IMG_2796.jpg)

Now that you know what the car specs are, let's look at the track. I took a satellite image and drew the track layout (from memory) just to give you an idea. The track is approx. 1 mile and during my session, because of the wet track, track layout, and traction control having to stay on at all times, there wasn't really a chance to open it up beyond 1st gear. The start is by the sidewalk at the upper right corner.

Click on image to enlarge.
http://supraholics.com/FRS/track.jpg (http://supraholics.com/FRS/track.jpg)

Onto the drive!


Click on image to enlarge.
http://supraholics.com/FRS/IMG_2799_SMALL.jpg (http://supraholics.com/FRS/IMG_2799.jpg)

Like I said before, the track was soaking wet when we started (not as pictured - that picture was taken at another time) and we had to keep traction control on at all times. We all get to go twice. For my first drive, I chose to leave the car in automatic mode as I didn't know the car or the track. In this setting the transmission is absolutely HORRIBLE! There's absolutely no torque to get you going fast. Once you let go of the gas pedal, there's a complete disconnect and a big gap from the time you let go, hit the brakes, to hitting the gas again. It seemed like it took forever! - That along with traction control kicking in made for a completely horrible drive! It absolutely ruined the good things about the car.

Next it was my wife's turn to drive - She was rearranging the rear view mirrors and all even though there wasn't going to be anyone behind her - It gave me the great pleasure of admiring the car from the passenger side and I enjoyed it quite a lot, which isn't common for me! Being in the passenger seat allowed me to look at the incredibly deep and large dashboard, the nice materials (again at this price point) and how well arranged and well placed everything is! (Yeah, she was driving that slow :D)

The second time around, I specifically asked to drive the "Black One" - Is a color thing I said - The guy said Ok, but I know he was laughing inside! LOL.

This time I chose for the manual mode using the paddle shifters. Again, there wasn't really a lot of space to warrant going into second gear specially with a wet track. I tried it once and I just had to immediately shift back into 1st.

The tranny was a lot more responsive and engaging in this mode. It allowed me to experience and enjoy the rest of the car a lot more. Even though I never went above (ummm 35-40mph?) the track layout allowed me to experience every engineering dollar that went into this car! The steering is incredibly responsive and short. The driving position is excellent and the brakes are quite nice as well (they WRX brakes). Having being in the LFA, I can certainly see the influence and with this car being lowered it actually had a better CoG than an LFA by .25".

So far, the little experience I've had with this car has made me want it more and more! From the stunning looks, specially when lowered, to the amazing engineering behind it. Everywhere you look, you can see how much thought it was put into each piece!

Here's a video my wife took of me going 'round the track. Sorry for the shaking and the narrow video. She was using her phone vertically.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZtFEb2YlWQ&feature=youtu.be

If Toyota were to bring the Supra back with as much thought as this car, BRACE yourselves!!!!

I also wanted to point out the very large rock panels! I bet these provide tons of rigidity.

Click on image to enlarge.
http://supraholics.com/FRS/IMG_2810_SMALL.jpg (http://supraholics.com/FRS/IMG_2810.jpg)

Check out the VIN tag - Subaru logo everywhere! Also, what ever happened with the first 86 owners getting the first 86 cars? At the track we had Numbers 68, 72, and not sure about the other two.


Click on image to enlarge.
http://supraholics.com/FRS/IMG_2817_SMALL.jpg (http://supraholics.com/FRS/IMG_2817.jpg)


Click on image to enlarge.
http://supraholics.com/FRS/IMG_2833_SMALL.jpg (http://supraholics.com/FRS/IMG_2833.jpg)

[mcperson2k]

So jelly. Pretty sure these are the same cars that were at the first 86 event. Pretty sure all the test cars and mules sent to car reviewers and developers have a different vin. I know the first guy on the list got his car last week and he has number 1. Also someone who preordered posted their vin and they were 87.

[novec64]

That sucks it rained later that day. :cry: We were really giving them hell @ 10:00 and it was amazing how well they took it! :driving:

[mcperson2k]

Who has gotten one of these? I know someone on here has to have one.

[WolfsFang]

Who has gotten one of these? I know someone on here has to have one.

I have the frs on order for 2 months now. Car will be sponsored by a local shop so their will be day one mods.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

[Supraholic]

Spotted a black FRS at Krause Toyota last night and there's no markup!18053 $26,6k

[SpEcRv9]

cool car...but pushing 27k is just too much...

[Supraholic]

cool car...but pushing 27k is just too much...

I respectfully disagree. Just the looks alone calls for $20K. Then take all the R&D this car got and forget about it!

There's a reason every magazine is raving about it.

[Supraru]

We've had two ordered and picked up. The third one I guess the guy didn't want. It's a limited and is marked up to 30k. The car feels great but I wouldn't drop 30k on it.

[mcperson2k]

cool car...but pushing 27k is just too much...

That's the auto not the 6 speed. The 6 speed is 2k less than the auto. I like the brz better but if I ended up in one of these I think I would be in the frs. The Subaru dealerships are using the brz as proof that consumers are stupid.

[Chris B.]

I have to say after driving the FRS with the traction control off and stability control off on dry pavement, its a fun car. I assume the BRZ is very similar. The FRS seemed a little tail happy, but that may help with those that do autocross.

[jpalamar]

Car will be sponsored by a local shop so their will be day one mods.

:rotfl:

[WolfsFang]

:rotfl:

i dont see whats so funny when i was running a intake the first day i got the car. Its off atm since we are removing the sound box and they are going to make a much cleaner one.

[jpalamar]

i dont see whats so funny when i was running a intake the first day i got the car. Its off atm since we are removing the sound box and they are going to make a much cleaner one.

Its funny because you are bragging about an intake from your 'sponser' but you don't have any dyno numbers or track times to show if it even does anything.

[WolfsFang]

Its funny because you are bragging about an intake from your 'sponser' but you don't have any dyno numbers or track times to show if it even does anything.

As I said in my member log we are not aiming for numbers they are just aiming to spread the word they work on the car (maybe in the future when we are all done we will dyno). Plus they dont have a dyno. Also if you weren't so lazy you could do some research the fact that the intake only makes around +7hp, the main factor is it smooths out the TQ curve. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8129

[mcperson2k]

As someone who works in the R&D field for a big company... That sounds like some really crappy R&D on their part to not record before and after. How do you know it makes 7hp if they have no dyno? Just curious.

[Supraru]

Company: hey we're going to sponsor your car and build you an intake.

Me: sounds good but I'm going to need to see some numbers and af's to make sure my car is safe.

Company: Oh we're not worried about numbers we just wanna spread the word about the frs and brz,

Me: hahahahahahaha are you kidding me? The car will advertise itself and has nothing to do with the part you're putting on my car.

Sounds line something is hacked or they have no business sense.

[WolfsFang]

As someone who works in the R&D field for a big company... That sounds like some really crappy R&D on their part to not record before and after. How do you know it makes 7hp if they have no dyno? Just curious.

the +7hp~ is from that thread with the same diameter as the stock intake. The only reason why we cant dyno is because they dont have a dyno in their shop. All we can do is take advice from the big companys from what they are releasing just like in that thread. If we had a dyno with all the equipment then it would of been a different story. They know what they are doing and we pay close attention to the A/F ratio. These guys build 1000+ supra's/rally cars/ worked on GTR's and many other cars.

*edit*im not going to pay $200+ just to do a dyno run on a intake and exhaust that might only show ~10hp total on a good day. Maybe once we start flashing the ECU (someone did it and claimed a +30hp) or something else major but not for simple boltons.

[Scapegoat]

you ain't got numbers so don't say numbers.

an intake as a day 1 mod isn't much to be boasting about. now, if you're shop went to work fabbing up exhaust headers and a full exhaust i'd be impressed.

[SHOdude]

Pics or it didn't happen.

[Supraru]

the +7hp~ is from that thread with the same diameter as the stock intake. The only reason why we cant dyno is because they dont have a dyno in their shop. All we can do is take advice from the big companys from what they are releasing just like in that thread. If we had a dyno with all the equipment then it would of been a different story. They know what they are doing and we pay close attention to the A/F ratio. These guys build 1000+ supra's/rally cars/ worked on GTR's and many other cars.

*edit*im not going to pay $200+ just to do a dyno run on a intake and exhaust that might only show ~10hp total on a good day. Maybe once we start flashing the ECU (someone did it and claimed a +30hp) or something else major but not for simple boltons.

So this shop that builds these magical 1000 hp cars doesn't have a hook up for a dyno? Again bs. If they are building these parts why wouldn't they want numbers so they can sell more? They are sponsoring you which means they want their name out there associated with your frs/brz's. I don't think you or they quite understand what a sponsorship is.

[WolfsFang]

They tune the cars by pulls. They know its not the safest or smartest but they gata use what they have. Their is no room in the shop for a dyno and no local shops around here that has one.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

[Higu]

There's a Dyno in West Milford

[c7scayman]

Trying to get this thread back on track:

BRZ vs Mustang V6:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD3hgleEOXA

BRZ vs Renault Megane 265 Trophy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNUL9eQO5Q0

BRZ vs MX-5 vs Genesis Coupe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ronU4dyK-8

There was a BRZ vs FRS vs MX-5 from the Japanese show, Best motoring/Tsukuba Battle, but I can't find it now.

[Scapegoat]

Trying to get this thread back on track:

BRZ vs Mustang V6:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD3hgleEOXA


I'd like to see them replace the 30k v6 with a base 30k GT and see the comparison

[mcperson2k]

I read that they were releasing a special version of the NC Miata before the ND release, and its supposed to be 240hp, lighter, and have better suspension. I would like to see this against the BRZ/FR-S.

[c7scayman]

I read that they were releasing a special version of the NC Miata before the ND release, and its supposed to be 240hp, lighter, and have better suspension. I would like to see this against the BRZ/FR-S.

That is the Supercharged MX-5 not headed for the U.S.
It is called the Yusho concept and it looks amazing:

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/mazda/2012-mazda-mx-5-yusho-concept-ar130499.html

[SHOdude]

Wasn't the m edition miata supercharged?

[c7scayman]

Oh, and here is how the BRZ does on our local track, Thunderbolt in NJ.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxAkNUQ24Pk&feature=related

[WolfsFang]

you ain't got numbers so don't say numbers.

an intake as a day 1 mod isn't much to be boasting about. now, if you're shop went to work fabbing up exhaust headers and a full exhaust i'd be impressed.

when did boast I about having a intake? Someone said where is the mods and i said. You need to stop putting words in my mouth.

[DaBombDiggidy]

Its funny because you are bragging about an intake from your 'sponser' but you don't have any dyno numbers or track times to show if it even does anything.

intake dyno numbers are bull **** anyway. theyre like hey we dyno'ed the car stock at XXX and then we put our intake and a tune giving it 5-6 more degrees of timing, or smoothed out the graph to 10, or dynoed it 20 times until the best number poped up. and we made 10 hp more!!! then the jdm kids shoot a nut and company rolls in money.

Intakes really don't do that much or they would come with 3" piping from factory. talk to any engineer or person into flow dynamics, typically stock intakes with better filters perform just as good as any aftermarket one because the TB is a bottle neck to the whale penis you have stuck on it, and most intakes are cold air set up anyway. many independent dyno tests with stock TB diameter/ turbo inlet diameter have shown this to be true.

[jpalamar]

intake dyno numbers are bull **** anyway. theyre like hey we dyno'ed the car stock at XXX and then we put our intake and a tune giving it 5-6 more degrees of timing and we made 10 hp more!!! then the jdm kids shoot a nut and company rolls in money.

All the good companies do stock dyno, then dyno with just the intake, then dyno with the intake and re-tuned. They also typically show track times and MPH gains for before and after to see if the dyno numbers actualy make a difference in the rear world. Even some flow numbers are cool to see. All done same car, same day to its legit numbers.

Intakes really don't do that much or they would come with 3" piping from factory. talk to any engineer or person into flow dynamics, typically stock intakes with better filters perform just as good as any aftermarket one because the TB is a bottle neck to the whale penis you have stuck on it, and most intakes are cold air set up anyway. many independent dyno tests with stock TB diameter/ turbo inlet diameter have shown this to be true.

I beg to differ. There are plenty of intakes that actually work much better then stock. here is just one example but it is a cool read. http://www.vararam.com/b2.html

I'm not sure if they say this part or not but it is very common to consistantly run .1 to .2 faster in the 1/4 as well as add 1-3mph with this part alone. It also lower IATs a ton... so even though this benifit doesn't 'gain' power it will prevent you from loosing power while your stuck in traffic or in line at the track(higher IAT = less timing). Granted, this isn't something that will be seen with just dyno numbers alone.

This intake also has better gains the faster you go. Something that doesn't really show on a dyno but is proven by track times and logging at different speeds.

To max the flow of your TB your going to need much more then small mods too. Thats why TB mods typically don't yeild any real gains for the average car. It isn't always about the size of the intake or the TB... but the way it flows or brings in cooler air. Also... if you got a bigger TB wouldn't you want a bigger MAF as well?

I also DON'T believe that going from just an OEM filter to an aftermarket filter alone will yield any real world results other then weight reduction for your wallet .

[DaBombDiggidy]

All the good companies do stock dyno, then dyno with just the intake, then dyno with the intake and re-tuned. They also typically show track times and MPH for before and after to see if the dyno numbers actualy make a difference in the rear world. Even some flow numbers are cool to see.

all companies that make/sell intakes create truths w/ omissions to sell a product, the only thing better about them is the filter. im also sure flow numbers of intake vs intake is fine, take the flow numbers from the intake manifold runner to see a true difference though. at the end of the day companies are trying to make a buck and most people buy into it when the "intake hp numbers" are really coming from the tune.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCi2yo4UqPI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAIxeQUSg-Q&feature=relmfu

edit... you have an c5 those intakes were junk from factory lol you are the 1%

[mcperson2k]

I don't see how track times would be necessary for something so insignificant like an intake. Unless a computer was driving the car.

[SHOdude]

But there's still no pictures of said intake soo...

[mcperson2k]

****s on the D-LOW!

[Supraru]

Probably didn't even get the car. Lol.

[WolfsFang]

Probably didn't even get the car. Lol.yup i never got the car yet :roll:

[jpalamar]

edit... you have an c5 those intakes were junk from factory lol you are the 1%

Completely irrelevant.

[Supraru]

yup i never got the car yet :roll:

Still don't know why there is no clips of thin intake and pictures. I'm guessing you have some sweet dryer hose.

[WolfsFang]

Still don't know why there is no clips of thin intake and pictures. I'm guessing you have some sweet dryer hose.
im starting to think people on this site are illiterate, as i said a few post back its off the car for now.

[Supraru]

im starting to think people on this site are illiterate, as i said a few post back its off the car for now.

Why you take it off man. The sponsorship run out?

[DaBombDiggidy]

dude has a car, someone gave him an intake for test fittment and now they are probably changing it a bit /thread

intake discussion
a. Typical stock intake = TB --> fender. you are the 1%, and it is relevant, because you have an aftermarket intake that changes the routing of the air while 99% of the others don't. typically they make it worse IE short rams
b. please enlighten me how the typical aftermarket intake that is only thicker and routes itself to the same spot in the fender lowers IATs? do they create a vortex in the space time continuum grabbing air from a previous cold winter?
c. no one has ever proven with multiple runs before and after with a typical intake upgrade they are running faster times without any other hidden modifications IE tire/tune/getting used to tracking the car.
d. your whole TB thing is my point. the ONLY reason someone needs a "typical" aftermarket intake is because of an aftermarket throttle body. < which having one of those means you probably have some serious mods and etc.
e. aftermarket filters are, mostly, better because they are more concerned with flow then production costs and stopping materials from getting to the motor.

go grab a wendys straw and put a mcdonalds on the end of it and blow through it. then grab two mcdonalds straws and blow through them, the air is the same and its NOT any cooler.

[jpalamar]

c. no one has ever proven with multiple runs before and after with a typical intake upgrade they are running faster times without any other hidden modifications IE tire/tune/getting used to tracking the car.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o32/jasonpalamar/Forum/image001-4.jpg

Source: http://www.vararam.com/gmhightech.html

go grab a wendys straw and put a mcdonalds on the end of it and blow through it. then grab two mcdonalds straws and blow through them, the air is the same and its NOT any cooler.

Read: http://www.vararam.com/airtemp-test-page.html
http://www.vararam.com/camaro-vs-comp.html

[Supraru]

dude has a car, someone gave him an intake for test fittment and now they are probably changing it a bit /thread

Why would they change anything. They don't care about the products. They clearly stated they just want people to know about the car. Lol. Great business.

[Supraru]

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o32/jasonpalamar/Forum/image001-4.jpg



Read: http://www.vararam.com/airtemp-test-page.html
http://www.vararam.com/camaro-vs-comp.html

Haha...burn.

[mcperson2k]

Its not really a burn since he said
a. Typical stock intake = TB --> fender. you are the 1%, and it is relevant, because you have an aftermarket intake that changes the routing of the air while 99% of the others don't.

[WolfsFang]

I am here. Heard about the site from Nabisco.
http://home.ucwphilly.rr.com/photog72/images/wrxhitch4.JPG

The stuff that come out of your brain just makes me fart. A intake and exhaust is nothing to brag about so that's why their is no dyno runs.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

[Supraholic]

The stuff that come out of your brain just makes me fart. A intake and exhaust is nothing to brag about so that's why their is no dyno runs.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

Wolfsfang - I usually try to be respectful while directing myself to others, however you're making it very difficult!

Can you please take a picture or video of said vehicle and/or intake so we can have a visual? We know you have the technology as you're posting from your phone!

If you can take video even better. That way we can have a listen to the new intake compare to the old, which took Toyota/Subaru engineers hours and hours to develop. Perhaps the one you got from that shop is better.

[mcperson2k]

Hours and hours, lol.. That just sounds funny being directed at such a big company. Though, it probably did take just a few hours because they probably reused it from another car.

[WolfsFang]

Wolfsfang - I usually try to be respectful while directing myself to others, however you're making it very difficult!

Can you please take a picture or video of said vehicle and/or intake so we can have a visual? We know you have the technology as you're posting from your phone!

If you can take video even better. That way we can have a listen to the new intake compare to the old, which took Toyota/Subaru engineers hours and hours to develop. Perhaps the one you got from that shop is better.
im going back sometime next week, iv been busy with work so i have not been able to go to the shop all last week.

[Supraru]

Wolfsfang - I usually try to be respectful while directing myself to others, however you're making it very difficult!

Can you please take a picture or video of said vehicle and/or intake so we can have a visual? We know you have the technology as you're posting from your phone!

If you can take video even better. That way we can have a listen to the new intake compare to the old, which took Toyota/Subaru engineers hours and hours to develop. Perhaps the one you got from that shop is better.

Well he said he took it off for some reason and hasn't responded why and if he took it off he still has it laying around. If it Ws me I really don't take things off my car unless they fail or it just sucks ass.

[mcperson2k]

Common sense would tell you that if they are using his car to mock up an aftermarket intake for it, they would initially need the car to take measurements and make it fit, probably have him drive with it for a day or so, and repeat. Eventually when they have something they like, they would remove it and go over it thoroughly to make sure everything is up to par, and then send it out to be reproduced (or reproduce it themselves?). Its not like the mock up intake is the one Wolf will be driving around with on his car forever. They will give him a finished product / discount it to him.

[Supraru]

Common sense would tell you that if they are using his car to mock up an aftermarket intake for it, they would initially need the car to take measurements and make it fit, probably have him drive with it for a day or so, and repeat. Eventually when they have something they like, they would remove it and go over it thoroughly to make sure everything is up to par, and then send it out to be reproduced (or reproduce it themselves?). Its not like the mock up intake is the one Wolf will be driving around with on his car forever. They will give him a finished product / discount it to him.

Common sense would say if you read what he stated the shop has no interest in marketing parts otherwise they would have dyno tested with and without to see where they can improve their intake. You claimed you were in the R&D field so you should understand that. Them not doing it shows me they don't really care. He even said himself they don't care about numbers and just want to say "we work on the frs/brz" which to me is pretty dumb if you're a shop and sponsoring a car.

[WolfsFang]

Common sense would say if you read what he stated the shop has no interest in marketing parts otherwise they would have dyno tested with and without to see where they can improve their intake. You claimed you were in the R&D field so you should understand that. Them not doing it shows me they don't really care. He even said himself they don't care about numbers and just want to say "we work on the frs/brz" which to me is pretty dumb if you're a shop and sponsoring a car.
common sense would make people read previous post and then will answer their question why i have it off. As stated again the shop isent going to brag they made a intake since its something so minor.

[Supraru]

common sense would make people read previous post and then will answer their question why i have it off. As stated again the shop isent going to brag they made a intake since its something so minor.

Last I checked shops are in the business to make money. People see you have and intake made by them they go to the shop to buy one. What part of a business don't you or they not understand? This is why I think you're bsing. A shop isn't going to make you something and sponsor you and not brag about what they are doing to a unique car. They are in the business to make money not do stuff for free. And you're trying to blow smoke up our ass and say that you got a free custom intake and didn't take one picture of it with your camera phone? Stop lying man. Your gig is up.

[mcperson2k]

Common sense would say if you read what he stated the shop has no interest in marketing parts otherwise they would have dyno tested with and without to see where they can improve their intake. You claimed you were in the R&D field so you should understand that. Them not doing it shows me they don't really care. He even said himself they don't care about numbers and just want to say "we work on the frs/brz" which to me is pretty dumb if you're a shop and sponsoring a car.

Marketing isn't a requirement of future development. Companies, large and small, develop new products everyday that get scrapped before they ever make it through the first round of testing.

I don't know anything about the shop, but they probably are creating an intake just to say they have one, and that's it.. Once they finish it, they could easily just throw the stock one back on the car, dyno it, then put theirs on and dyno it. Very few businesses are going to spend the money to fine tune a product like that unless that is their market. I don't think intakes are this shops market..

Take K&N filters for example, and put that up against some no name brand. K&N's #1 priority is filters, while no name brand could be producing 100 other no name products. K&N will dump money into researching and developing more efficient designs and materials for their intakes, while no name brand will mass produce one design for every product they offer given that it "works" until its time to poorly replicate a more modern design that K&N developed.

[Supraru]

Marketing isn't a requirement of future development. Companies, large and small, develop new products everyday that get scrapped before they ever make it through the first round of testing.

I don't know anything about the shop, but they probably are creating an intake just to say they have one, and that's it.. Once they finish it, they could easily just throw the stock one back on the car, dyno it, then put theirs on and dyno it. Very few businesses are going to spend the money to fine tune a product like that unless that is their market. I don't think intakes are this shops market..

He already stated that they aren't going to dyno the car. But also stated they build 1000 hp cars but don't have access to a dyno. Make sense to you?


Take K&N filters for example, and put that up against some no name brand. K&N's #1 priority is filters, while no name brand could be producing 100 other no name products. K&N will dump money into researching and developing more efficient designs and materials for their intakes, while no name brand will mass produce one design for every product they offer given that it "works" until its time to poorly replicate a more modern design that K&N developed.

And K&N tests and has dyno proof of their product. They aren't going to sponsor a car and make an intake system for it and not have numbers to back it up. That's how they make money.

Still not sure why he hasn't posted pictures of the intake. If a company made you something for your new car you wouldn't have taken a picture of it?

[WolfsFang]

He already stated that they aren't going to dyno the car. But also stated they build 1000 hp cars but don't have access to a dyno. Make sense to you?

The owner of the vehicles get a dyno on their own time and report back. Thry just build the cars and tune them. Maybe i worded it wrong with the intake but we are not getting hyped up for just that mod.

[BigWhiteTodd]

The owner of the vehicles get a dyno on their own time and report back. Thry just build the cars and tune them. Maybe i worded it wrong with the intake but we are not getting hyped up for just that mod.

so they just build them and tune with out a dyno and bam owner straps it on the dyno it makes 1000hp? how do they tune it?

[WolfsFang]

so they just build them and tune with out a dyno and bam owner straps it on the dyno it makes 1000hp? how do they tune it?

This is getting kind of annoying having to repeat myself. Look back a few post and I said they do pulls.

[Got Insulin?]

Then that shop sucks. You're just digging your hole deeper, WF.

[WolfsFang]

Then that shop sucks. You're just digging your hole deeper, WF.

Yea im done, anymore updates will be in my log (should be going back tuesday.)

[Supraru]

Still waiting for those pics.

I'm proud to announce Cosworth is sponsoring my car. They just dropped in one of their prototype engines for me but didn't care about tuning it/dynoing it/selling other engines.

[Khellen]

Still waiting for those pics.

I'm proud to announce Cosworth is sponsoring my car. They just dropped in one of their prototype engines for me but didn't care about tuning it/dynoing it/selling other engines.

http://ericlightborn.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/beating_a_dead_horse.jpg

[Supraru]

http://ericlightborn.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/beating_a_dead_horse.jpg

Yeah just hate when people try way to hard to fit in. Just have fun with the car. No need to make up stuff and talk out of your ass. Lol

[WolfsFang]

Yeah just hate when people try way to hard to fit in. Just have fun with the car. No need to make up stuff and talk out of your ass. Lol

your the one who is still talking about it so i think you are just looking for some attention. Idk why you keep dragging this on, im in no way trying to fit in, infact i dont give two ****s if you like me or not since i will never see you in real life (infact anyone.)

Anyway went to the shop today, we started to mock up how the exhaust should be. Its going to be a catback atm (will bolt on the the oval looking thing, no idea what it is called first time i have seen one) and will be straight to until the diff when it will split into a Y for duel back. They are ordering SS for the exhaust (we got into a deep discussion if the exhaust should be made from SS or aluminum.) Also told me he is going to order the aluminum piping for the intake.

Will update my log with more photos later. Also the car sound really sick with the piping just like this. Should of gotten a video of it.
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/dragonman14/2012-06-18_16-46-18_158.jpg

[jpalamar]

Enjoy your heat soaking metal intake.

[WolfsFang]

Enjoy your heat soaking metal intake.I have no idea what this means, im also getting the feeling you are just trying to troll hard like mr "im a subaru mechanic" over here. Also last time i checked aluminum dissipates heat since why all intercooler piping (the good ones and some intakes) are made from it.

[Supraru]

I have no idea what this means, im also getting the feeling you are just trying to troll hard like mr "im a subaru mechanic" over here. Also last time i checked aluminum dissipates heat since why all intercooler piping (the good ones and some intakes) are made from it.

:rotfl:

[jpalamar]

I have no idea what this means, im also getting the feeling you are just trying to troll hard like mr "im a subaru mechanic" over here. Also last time i checked aluminum dissipates heat since why all intercooler piping (the good ones and some intakes) are made from it.

I'm not trolling. I'm schooling you... atleast I hope so.

My 2 cents.

Weight is why alum piping is used in IC piping... not the heat dissipation properties. I believe copper dissipates heat better then alum . Granted its much softer so might not be as practical and I'm not sure of the melting points and all that jazz. Maybe Ti could be used also?

If I were to build a FI car... my hot side pipe/IC is the side I'd want heat to dissipate from. The cold side would be insulated to prevent the heat in the engine bay from re-heating the intake air after the IC. I'd have to do some R&D to find a good medium between engine bay temps and intake temps though.

In a non FI car, I assume you would heat soak more from alum intake piping since then engine bay temps are likely higher then ambient air temps. Alum piping would just absorb the heat in the engine bay and transfer it to the intake charge. You would at the least have to have the pipe hot jet coated to help solve this problem.

I'm running on about 2 hours of sleep a night right now so I may have to re-type some of this, but hopefully it makes sense.

[Redline86]

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g98/grmjoeg/message%20board/IMG_3581.jpg

[TR MS3]

That one looks awesome, what is different about it. Obviously the wheels, but for some reason I really like the way this one looks.

[mcperson2k]

Its a TRD body kit I believe.

[TR MS3]

I've been on the fence about the looks, but that one... LOVE IT!

[Got Insulin?]

Smaller in person than I had imagined them. Reserving my opinion until I drive one...

[Chris B.]

Smaller in person than I had imagined them. Reserving my opinion until I drive one...

They are about the same size as an AE-86. Many people try to compare them to a Genesis Coupe and a Mustang, but the FRS/BRZ is much smaller than those cars.

[DocWalt]

----

:eek: Awesome.

[WolfsFang]

I'm not trolling. I'm schooling you... atleast I hope so.

My 2 cents.

Weight is why alum piping is used in IC piping... not the heat dissipation properties. I believe copper dissipates heat better then alum . Granted its much softer so might not be as practical and I'm not sure of the melting points and all that jazz. Maybe Ti could be used also?

If I were to build a FI car... my hot side pipe/IC is the side I'd want heat to dissipate from. The cold side would be insulated to prevent the heat in the engine bay from re-heating the intake air after the IC. I'd have to do some R&D to find a good medium between engine bay temps and intake temps though.

In a non FI car, I assume you would heat soak more from alum intake piping since then engine bay temps are likely higher then ambient air temps. Alum piping would just absorb the heat in the engine bay and transfer it to the intake charge. You would at the least have to have the pipe hot jet coated to help solve this problem.

I'm running on about 2 hours of sleep a night right now so I may have to re-type some of this, but hopefully it makes sense.
thanks for the info guess i read your post in the wrong way

[Redline86]

That one looks awesome, what is different about it. Obviously the wheels, but for some reason I really like the way this one looks.

It is a full 5axis kit. Front lip, side skirts, rear lip, spoiler, and wheels. They will be available through the Scion dealership. The lip kit is $1,800 installed and that can be financed when buying the car

[Big_Jim]

It is a full 5axis kit. Front lip, side skirts, rear lip, spoiler, and wheels. They will be available through the Scion dealership. The lip kit is $1,800 installed and that can be financed when buying the car
Pretty sure paint is additional. Same as it was for the 5AD kits on previous scions.

[Redline86]

Pretty sure paint is additional. Same as it was for the 5AD kits on previous scions.

without paint it is around $1100

[DocWalt]

Awesome. Can you buy the 5AD wheels through the dealer as well?

[WolfsFang]

Awesome. Can you buy the 5AD wheels through the dealer as well?

No the only wheels you can buy is the trd but they are not out yet

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

[Supraholic]

That car belongs Jack Hollis, Scion's VP. The kit was developed by 5axis but will be sold as TRD. There are TRD wheels in development as well.

[DocWalt]

Ok, so the 5axis wheels would be a first purchase then lol

[WolfsFang]

That car belongs Jack Hollis, Scion's VP. The kit was developed by 5axis but will be sold as TRD. There are TRD wheels in development as well.
do you know the specs on them? If they are 18x8.5 or greater im buying!

[Redline86]

That car belongs Jack Hollis, Scion's VP. The kit was developed by 5axis but will be sold as TRD. There are TRD wheels in development as well.

I believe TRD has their own kit. It will still be sold as a 5axis kit.

[mcperson2k]

All I know is that 95% of everything the dealership is offering for the FR-S is a total rip off. I would just wait for a knock off to come out in a few months. Its probably 1/4 the price. Oh, but if you buy it from a dealership, its included in the warranty you say? When has a stealership ever fixed a broken bumper for free unless it just came from the factory misaligned.

The TRD bbk is the best part... 10k.. :lol:

[DocWalt]

Got to sit in a BRZ today (BTW, silver BRZ at the Subaru dealer in Norristown, buyer bought a WRX instead) and was impressed by how much space there was inside considering I'm a pretty big dude. Short throws on the shifter, and nice and smooth. I dig it.

[c7scayman]

Scion FRS vs Scion tC. Track tested. I'm surprised they are not that far apart in performance.
http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtests/2012/06/2013-scion-fr-s-vs-2011-scion-tc-track-tested.html

[MattBear]

Scion FRS vs Scion tC. Track tested. I'm surprised they are not that far apart in performance.
http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtests/2012/06/2013-scion-fr-s-vs-2011-scion-tc-track-tested.html

i would attribute some of that to the Michelins on the FRS. they aren't very good tires IMO when stacked against the Yokos that the Scion was equipped with.

either way the FRS/BRZ still needs a powerband adjustment, of about 40 lb/ft torque!

[WolfsFang]

I have no idea if this is important or not but HKS came out with a 2 new headgasket's, one for NA that moves the compression to 12.6:1 and another labeled for BOOST that moves it down to 12.4:1.

[jpalamar]

Mustang V6 w/ track pack beats BRZ around track.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD3hgleEOXA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I have no idea if this is important or not but HKS came out with a 2 new headgasket's, one for NA that moves the compression to 12.6:1 and another labeled for BOOST that moves it down to 12.4:1.

I think your gonna want to lower compression way more then that before adding any serious boost.

[grimm]

by a second... Mustang is 1.7L bigger and has 100HP 130Tq over the BRZ and only weighs 50lbs more. Not sure what you expected?

[jpalamar]

by a second... Mustang is 1.7L bigger and has 100HP 130Tq over the BRZ and only weighs 50lbs more. Not sure what you expected?

Mustang is actually about 750lbs more.

[Chris B.]

by a second... Mustang is 1.7L bigger and has 100HP 130Tq over the BRZ and only weighs 50lbs more. Not sure what you expected?

I wish the V6 Mustang was only 50 lbs more than the BRZ. If it was, it would be the best performance value in a new car that we have had in years!

The 2011 V6 Mustang is 3453 lbs(more curb weight than a 2005-2009 V8 Mustang GT) with no options and over 3500 lbs with some options. The 2013 V6 Mustang with no options is 3523 lbs. The BRZ/FRS are under 2800 lbs. That's a difference of over 700 lbs.

[Supraru]

Mustang is actually about 750lbs more.

If only there was a resident ford mustang fanboy that could give you all the stats.


I wish the V6 Mustang was only 50 lbs more than the BRZ. If it was, it would be the best performance value in a new car that we have had in years!

The 2011 V6 Mustang is 3453 lbs(more curb weight than a 2005-2009 V8 Mustang GT) with no options and over 3500 lbs with some options. The 2013 V6 Mustang with no options is 3523 lbs. The BRZ/FRS are under 2800 lbs. That's a difference of over 700 lbs.

oh wait there he is!!!!

[jpalamar]

If only there was a resident ford mustang fanboy that could give you all the stats.

They listed weight in the video. Don't need to be fanboy to be able to read :lol:

[mcperson2k]

Nothing better than a fanboy calling someone else a fanboy.

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t236/pipodekutclown/Fanboys.jpg