The philosophy on the benefits of upgraded rear pads...? - TriStateTuners.com :: Home of Tristate Auto Enthusiast

**TROLL** · 01-25-2006, 03:52 AM

Just wanted to pick some brains on whether an upgraded rear brake pad is worth it or not. Seeing as how the majority of the braking is done up front, I'm just not sure how important the rear is.
This question is a general one, but my personal setup includes: Subaru 4 pot front calipers with DBA 4650 slotted front rotors, and H6 rear larger rotors with stock calipers. I also feel that my Tein Flex coilovers play into braking because they prevent some of the nosedive that would occur with the stock springs and lighten the load off of the rear tires.
So, two weeks ago I ordered Ferodo DS2500 pads after reading rave reviews. I was definitely purchasing the fronts, and decided what the hell I'd get the rears too.
What I'm wondering now is if getting the rears was unnecessary, or if its the obvious choice, especially since I've already taken the step to shift braking bias rearward with the H6 rotors.
What exactly are the effects of upgrading rear pads? Obviously fade, but I dont often hear thats a problem on the rear pads. How about brake balance? But then again isnt it possible to lock up the rears on stock pads? I'm not sure, because I think the fronts lock up first.
Anyways, just looking to hear some advanced insight on whether or not upgrading rear pads is a good idea.
FYI I have installed the front pads out of necessity to replace what I had in there previously, but the rears are still sitting in the box waiting for summer tires and the autox season.
Thanks in advance, hopefully this inspires some informative discussion...

htheduck · 01-25-2006, 04:42 AM

Choosing the right pads overall for your driving needs is a religious experience (to quote someone) - it's all a matter of personal preference and experience. Buy the pads use them and try some different ones-untill you find the right combination. The right PAD combination is the right bias for YOUR driving style.

I ran Carbotech XP8 (F) and stock rear pads on an SRT4 last year - they both lasted 5 days then needed replacement.

I had another situation in which the rears were too much bite for my driving style:
Hawk HT10 (F) and HP+(R) was too much rear bite for me. I never had the rears lockup -but it 'felt' like it.

I put the HT10s to work and cracked them!

I will be sorting out which combination pads to run this year-also depending on the tracks as well.

Safir · 01-25-2006, 10:27 AM

I have upgraded rear brakes (duh) and use pad choice in teh rear to help how the car behaves under braking and entering a corner coming off the brakes - A stronger pad, and the car wil lbrake more evenly, not nosedive, and stay very planted and stable, a weaker rera pad and the car nosedives more, transfers more weight towards the front, and sometimes get squirrely (an extreme case is the saturn, with it's rear drums... no rear braking, nosedives a lot, rear end starts to want to come around, then locks due to the lack of weight on the tires - let me tell ya, THAT's exciting

) this helps turn-in a little by getting more weight on the front tires, and lets the rear end "come around" a little more as you begin to turn.

In essence, you can control the brake bias with rear pad selection without so much risk of completely destroying the car's braking behavior with a bias controler. with your "big" front brakes and stock rear, especially if you start adding real strong front pads, the car can get real squirrely under braking due to the weight transfer. I guess what i'm trying to say is that the rear brakes CAN do a lot more work than you're giving them credit for.

US_R33 · 01-26-2006, 05:36 AM

i've always run the same compound rear pads as i have front pads. my driving style on the track is fastest with this setup. basically Bryan, once you find a set of pads that you like and feel works really well for you......DON'T CHANGE THEM......when they wear out, replace them with the same pads. its so difficult to find the right compound among the hundreds of choices that once you find one that you are very confident driving with, your best bet is to stick with it

Late,
Daniel

wgknestrick · 01-28-2006, 01:00 AM

I've always liked to replace all 4 pads with the same type if possible on my STI. I don't like changing the stock bias based on pad type. Once you find a pad, stick with them and just replace F or R as needed.

You'd probably be fine though mixing pads.

Safir · 01-29-2006, 10:26 PM

brian has already messed with bias putting big honkin' front calipers on his WRX, playing with pads won't make that much difference ;)

**TROLL** · 01-29-2006, 11:09 PM

the 4 pot calipers decrease front clamping force slightly actually compared to the stock wrx brakes, and although i have dba rotors up front now they are stock diameter.
bryan

Raven18940 · 01-30-2006, 11:45 PM

My theory on brake pads is find a pad that you like and stick with it. For example, a lot of saab 9-5 people like PBR ceramic pads cause they bite good and don't eat rotors. However, they're a sort of on or off pad, nothing then everything. I knew I'd hate that and went with PBR Metal Master pads that have very linear, progressive force as well as a nice firm pedal. I love them, though my rotors aren't so happy. I got them only for the front, but I'm planning on getting them for the rear as they need changing.

Brake bias isn't really a problem for me, my car comes with a lot of initial rear bias and then the EBD shuffles the brake force around as things lock up. Yay electronics. However, the high initial rear bias can be used for some fun. I'm thinking about changing to larger diameter (280 mm vs 300 mm) rear rotors though cause 1) they're vented and 2) it'll increase my overall braking force.

How much were your brake upgrades out of curiousity?

US_R33 · 01-31-2006, 01:47 AM

vented rotors will really come in handy if you're doing any type of road racing events........otherwise don't waste your money....you'll never notice any significant braking improvement by installed 20mm larger/vented rear brake rotors.....i would also imagine that those rotors, while not really improving your stopping capabilities, would wreak havoc with your EBD system

01-25-2006, 04:42 AM	#2
htheduck Tri-State Addict Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: NY Member #583 iTrader: (0)	Choosing the right pads overall for your driving needs is a religious experience (to quote someone) - it's all a matter of personal preference and experience. Buy the pads use them and try some different ones-untill you find the right combination. The right PAD combination is the right bias for YOUR driving style. I ran Carbotech XP8 (F) and stock rear pads on an SRT4 last year - they both lasted 5 days then needed replacement. I had another situation in which the rears were too much bite for my driving style: Hawk HT10 (F) and HP+(R) was too much rear bite for me. I never had the rears lockup -but it 'felt' like it. I put the HT10s to work and cracked them! I will be sorting out which combination pads to run this year-also depending on the tracks as well. __________________ -H To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures. 94 Integra LS To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

01-25-2006, 10:27 AM	#3
Safir Tri-State Aficionado Join Date: Oct 2005 Member #940 iTrader: (0)	I have upgraded rear brakes (duh) and use pad choice in teh rear to help how the car behaves under braking and entering a corner coming off the brakes - A stronger pad, and the car wil lbrake more evenly, not nosedive, and stay very planted and stable, a weaker rera pad and the car nosedives more, transfers more weight towards the front, and sometimes get squirrely (an extreme case is the saturn, with it's rear drums... no rear braking, nosedives a lot, rear end starts to want to come around, then locks due to the lack of weight on the tires - let me tell ya, THAT's exciting ) this helps turn-in a little by getting more weight on the front tires, and lets the rear end "come around" a little more as you begin to turn. In essence, you can control the brake bias with rear pad selection without so much risk of completely destroying the car's braking behavior with a bias controler. with your "big" front brakes and stock rear, especially if you start adding real strong front pads, the car can get real squirrely under braking due to the weight transfer. I guess what i'm trying to say is that the rear brakes CAN do a lot more work than you're giving them credit for.

01-29-2006, 10:26 PM	#6
Safir Tri-State Aficionado Join Date: Oct 2005 Member #940 iTrader: (0)	brian has already messed with bias putting big honkin' front calipers on his WRX, playing with pads won't make that much difference ;)