Army Corps of Engineers liable for Katrina flooding - TriStateTuners.com :: Home of Tristate Auto Enthusiast

importpower99 · 11-19-2009, 10:05 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/11/18/lou...uit/index.html

-- The Army Corps of Engineers' failure to properly maintain a shipping channel linking New Orleans, Louisiana, to the Gulf of Mexico led to catastrophic flooding during Hurricane Katrina, a federal court ruled Wednesday.

"It is the court's opinion that the negligence of the Corps, in this instance by failing to maintain the MRGO properly, was not policy, but insouciance, myopia and short-sightedness," U.S. District Court Judge Stanwood Duval Jr. wrote in his lengthy ruling, referring to the Mississippi River-Gulf Outlet canal.

"For over 40 years, the Corps was aware that the Reach II levee protecting Chalmette and the Lower Ninth Ward was going to be compromised by the continued deterioration of the MRGO ... The Corps had an opportunity to take a myriad of actions to alleviate this deterioration or rehabilitate this deterioration and failed to do so. Clearly, the expression 'talk is cheap' applies here."

Duval's ruling was issued in a lawsuit brought by six plaintiffs affected by the 2005 hurricane, who claimed the Corps of Engineers was liable for damages. The judge ruled against one couple, who lived in New Orleans East, but awarded the others, from the Lower 9th Ward and St. Bernard Parish, damages ranging from $100,000 to $317,000.

"The people of this city are vindicated," said Joe Bruno, one of the plaintiffs' attorneys. "They didn't do anything wrong. It's now time for them to be compensated."

The ruling applies not only to the six plaintiffs, attorney Pierce O'Donnell said, but to 100,000 homes and businesses in the parish and the Lower 9th Ward. Under the precedent set by Duval's decision, they too will be entitled to compensation.

"The judge's ruling today validates the feelings and beliefs that many citizens have held for four years," said New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin in a statement. "Although the ruling is liberating for thousands impacted by the devastation and tragedy of Hurricane Katrina, it is my hope that justice will prevail to help families make their lives whole again."

Once a Category 5 storm, Katrina had weakened to a Category 3 storm with 127 mph winds when it made landfall on the morning of August 29, 2005, between Grand Isle, Louisiana, and the mouth of Mississippi River. A few hours later, the storm again crossed over land on the other side of the river, its winds only slightly diminished.

More than 1,800 people died in the storm, most -- nearly 1,600 -- in Louisiana, where Katrina devastated New Orleans when the city's levee system failed and widespread flooding occurred. Overall, the storm damage covered more than 90,000 square miles and displaced nearly 300,000 people, causing more than $81 billion in damage. FEMA called Katrina "the single most catastrophic natural disaster in U.S. history."

While courts have declared the Corps was liable for Katrina flooding, judges until now have issued it a "get out of jail free" card, the plaintiffs' attorneys said.

"It has been proven in a court of law that the drowning of New Orleans was not a natural disaster, but a preventable man-made travesty," the attorneys said in a statement. "The government has always had a moral obligation to rebuild New Orleans. This decision makes that obligation a matter of legal responsibility."

Duval ruled that because the Corps failed to maintain the shipping channel, erosion widened it, and its banks -- which helped protect the levees -- deteriorated, leaving the levees unprotected, undermined and more vulnerable to waves coming off Lake Borgne. The Corps also failed to take other actions, such as armoring the banks with rocks, the attorneys said.

"This court cannot but comment that the Corps' approach reminds the court of the old adage, 'Close your eyes and you become invisible,' " said the ruling. "It is beyond arbitrary and capricious -- it flies in the face of the purpose of NEPA [the National Environmental Policy Act] and ignores the very heart of what 'operation' means," Duval wrote.

The plaintiffs claimed the Corps was not entitled to immunity because its activities regarding the shipping channel "were in direct contravention of professional engineering and safety standards," Duval wrote. "... Ignoring safety and poor engineering are not policy, and clearly the Corps engaged in such activities."

"This is not the Corps that built the Panama Canal," said Joe Bruno, another plaintiffs' attorney. "This is a different Corps. This is a Corps that's reckless."

The attorneys said they plan to go to Washington after Thanksgiving to meet with the Justice Department. Although the Corps was given immunity from liability in areas like Central New Orleans and New Orleans East, they said they would like to start a settlement process for all citizens.

"We want to leave no residents behind," O'Donnell said. "We'd like to have a regional settlement."

Whatcha guys think bout dat?
No seriously, should the gov't have to pay money to it's citizens?

c0nfl1kt · 11-19-2009, 07:10 PM

I am sure the Hurricane itself and the fact that the city sits in mostly under sea level with a giant Lake next to it and a pretty rabid river on the other side had nothing to do with it.

No, the government owes its citizens no money for a storm. If they let this through then it will open the floodgates to many other instances where levees broke, storms surged over sea walls and barriers, etc.

FocusDude · 11-21-2009, 01:51 PM

Hindsight is twenty twenty.

92sileighty · 11-21-2009, 05:52 PM

really? the city is below sea level, what did they think was gonna happen

CANNIBALOFDOOM · 11-21-2009, 06:07 PM

reading a reply with "then it will open the floodgates" had be cracking up. i'm not going to post my view of all of this because it will be a 13 page rant filled with terrible grammar and spelling.

Clutch · 11-21-2009, 06:09 PM

this is pretty crazy news.

russiankid · 11-21-2009, 06:11 PM

Well this is old new that it is being blamed on Army Corps of Engineers. The flood gates have not been serviced in 10+ years IIRC. The were not built to withstand a category 5 storm. So with the added bonus of ****ty drain systems, the gates broke. Otherwise, Katrina would not have been that bad and really wasn't.

c0nfl1kt · 11-21-2009, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russiankid

Well this is old new that it is being blamed on Army Corps of Engineers. The flood gates have not been serviced in 10+ years IIRC. The were not built to withstand a category 5 storm. So with the added bonus of ****ty drain systems, the gates broke. Otherwise, Katrina would not have been that bad and really wasn't.

Wait, you just said the floodgates weren't built to withstand category 5 storms(hurricanes). That means that you think Katrina was a category 5 when it hit land, yet say it wasn't that bad? Please tell me you are tired and made a mistake.

russiankid · 11-21-2009, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by c0nfl1kt

Wait, you just said the floodgates weren't built to withstand category 5 storms(hurricanes). That means that you think Katrina was a category 5 when it hit land, yet say it wasn't that bad? Please tell me you are tired and made a mistake.

Err I am tired, sorry. They were built to withstand category 2 storms 10+ years ago. Since then they haven't touched them and then Katrina hit which was category 3.

c0nfl1kt · 11-21-2009, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russiankid

Err I am tired, sorry. They were built to withstand category 2 storms 10+ years ago. Since then they haven't touched them and then Katrina hit which was category 3.

I agree they weren't suitable. Yet, isn't it ironic that it isn't the first time New Orleans sank?

russiankid · 11-21-2009, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by c0nfl1kt

I agree they weren't suitable. Yet, isn't it ironic that it isn't the first time New Orleans sank?

Well New Orleans sucks, period. No one over there gives a rats ass about anything. 95% of the leaders do what is required to keep their status, which means they neglect so many things. An example would be the flood gates and levees. Both are being rebuilt after the storm because they obviously failed to do their job. Katrina was basically a huge wake up call for New Orleans which revealed so much crap that was hidden and people just lived with it.

c0nfl1kt · 11-21-2009, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russiankid

Well New Orleans sucks, period. No one over there gives a rats ass about anything. 95% of the leaders do what is required to keep their status, which means they neglect so many things. An example would be the flood gates and levees. Both are being rebuilt after the storm because they obviously failed to do their job. Katrina was basically a huge wake up call for New Orleans which revealed so much crap that was hidden and people just lived with it.

Well, yeah, you could see it that way and I agree. They need to stop campaigning to get people to feel sorry for them and fix their city the right way. It wasn't 100% their fault that the administration didn't dispatch federal aid sooner, but the politicians from decades ago got the snowball rolling so that is the root of the problem right there. It sounds ****ed up, but that's the truth. For the innocents that died and lost their homes I feel sorry for because their city's government played poker with their city and lost. All it took was one bad hand.

russiankid · 11-21-2009, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by c0nfl1kt

Well, yeah, you could see it that way and I agree. They need to stop campaigning to get people to feel sorry for them and fix their city the right way. It wasn't 100% their fault that the administration didn't dispatch federal aid sooner, but the politicians from decades ago got the snowball rolling so that is the root of the problem right there. It sounds ****ed up, but that's the truth. For the innocents that died and lost their homes I feel sorry for because their city's government played poker with their city and lost. All it took was one bad hand.

Before Katrina hit, officials were saying that everything is fine and we're good to go. Yeah, ok. The first problem New Orleans encountered was before the storm hit. When they issued a mandatory evacuation, they didn't realize how many people could not evacuate because they had no source of transportation. That already shows that the officials don't even know what they are dealing with in terms of population. Many people were left behind just because of the lack of transportation.

dragonfly2k3 · 11-22-2009, 03:58 AM

Wow, thats kind of shocking. Has there been any documentation as to anyone requesting repairs/documenting deterioration? Are we just assuming because they didnt do anything they are at fault? Im confused. I dont know alot about the subject, so flame away if needed, but be sure to include facts when you do.

importpower99 · 11-22-2009, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragonfly2k3

Wow, thats kind of shocking. Has there been any documentation as to anyone requesting repairs/documenting deterioration? Are we just assuming because they didnt do anything they are at fault? Im confused. I dont know alot about the subject, so flame away if needed, but be sure to include facts when you do.

Yeah Spike Lee did one. IT pretty much states that whitey blew the flood gates with explosives, to keep the expensive part of new orleans of getting destroyed. And residents heard a loud noise before the water rushed in.

And yes people actually believe this dumb s**t

dragonfly2k3 · 11-22-2009, 10:07 PM

^^lol!

ILLJIM69 · 11-22-2009, 11:31 PM

It's true bad. We are already broke, nothing like making it almost guaranteed that a bunch of retards who decided to live in a city along the gulf coast that sits below sea level will sue because it FINALLY flooded. Stupid call and I hope somehow it gets reversed.

FocusDude · 11-23-2009, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by importpower99

Yeah Spike Lee did one. IT pretty much states that whitey blew the flood gates with explosives, to keep the expensive part of new orleans of getting destroyed. And residents heard a loud noise before the water rushed in.

And yes people actually believe this dumb s**t

And they can vote!?!

crazyduckme · 11-24-2009, 10:28 AM

Both of my parents work for the Army Corps... this is insane. They are both pretty outraged and ranted to me about this for a while.

There was just a big project in Lousiana this General wanted the Army Corps to lower the project by 6" because it was "obstructing" his view. WTF. Everyone on the project said no and gave him a really hard time for it.. and it's a GOOD thing too, because that tropical storm/hurricane that just hit would have broken that project down if it was 6" lower. That General came out and APOLOGIZED for almost making a huge mistake.

I fully support the Army Corps for what they are doing. I worked there for 2 summers, made a lot of friends... and a bunch of them flew down right after Katrina to help out.

11-19-2009, 10:05 AM	#1
importpower99 Tri-State Aficionado Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Allentown, PA Member #5620 My Ride: 2012 Xterra Pro 4X iTrader: (0)	Army Corps of Engineers liable for Katrina flooding http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/11/18/lou...uit/index.html -- The Army Corps of Engineers' failure to properly maintain a shipping channel linking New Orleans, Louisiana, to the Gulf of Mexico led to catastrophic flooding during Hurricane Katrina, a federal court ruled Wednesday. "It is the court's opinion that the negligence of the Corps, in this instance by failing to maintain the MRGO properly, was not policy, but insouciance, myopia and short-sightedness," U.S. District Court Judge Stanwood Duval Jr. wrote in his lengthy ruling, referring to the Mississippi River-Gulf Outlet canal. "For over 40 years, the Corps was aware that the Reach II levee protecting Chalmette and the Lower Ninth Ward was going to be compromised by the continued deterioration of the MRGO ... The Corps had an opportunity to take a myriad of actions to alleviate this deterioration or rehabilitate this deterioration and failed to do so. Clearly, the expression 'talk is cheap' applies here." Duval's ruling was issued in a lawsuit brought by six plaintiffs affected by the 2005 hurricane, who claimed the Corps of Engineers was liable for damages. The judge ruled against one couple, who lived in New Orleans East, but awarded the others, from the Lower 9th Ward and St. Bernard Parish, damages ranging from $100,000 to $317,000. "The people of this city are vindicated," said Joe Bruno, one of the plaintiffs' attorneys. "They didn't do anything wrong. It's now time for them to be compensated." The ruling applies not only to the six plaintiffs, attorney Pierce O'Donnell said, but to 100,000 homes and businesses in the parish and the Lower 9th Ward. Under the precedent set by Duval's decision, they too will be entitled to compensation. "The judge's ruling today validates the feelings and beliefs that many citizens have held for four years," said New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin in a statement. "Although the ruling is liberating for thousands impacted by the devastation and tragedy of Hurricane Katrina, it is my hope that justice will prevail to help families make their lives whole again." Once a Category 5 storm, Katrina had weakened to a Category 3 storm with 127 mph winds when it made landfall on the morning of August 29, 2005, between Grand Isle, Louisiana, and the mouth of Mississippi River. A few hours later, the storm again crossed over land on the other side of the river, its winds only slightly diminished. More than 1,800 people died in the storm, most -- nearly 1,600 -- in Louisiana, where Katrina devastated New Orleans when the city's levee system failed and widespread flooding occurred. Overall, the storm damage covered more than 90,000 square miles and displaced nearly 300,000 people, causing more than $81 billion in damage. FEMA called Katrina "the single most catastrophic natural disaster in U.S. history." While courts have declared the Corps was liable for Katrina flooding, judges until now have issued it a "get out of jail free" card, the plaintiffs' attorneys said. "It has been proven in a court of law that the drowning of New Orleans was not a natural disaster, but a preventable man-made travesty," the attorneys said in a statement. "The government has always had a moral obligation to rebuild New Orleans. This decision makes that obligation a matter of legal responsibility." Duval ruled that because the Corps failed to maintain the shipping channel, erosion widened it, and its banks -- which helped protect the levees -- deteriorated, leaving the levees unprotected, undermined and more vulnerable to waves coming off Lake Borgne. The Corps also failed to take other actions, such as armoring the banks with rocks, the attorneys said. "This court cannot but comment that the Corps' approach reminds the court of the old adage, 'Close your eyes and you become invisible,' " said the ruling. "It is beyond arbitrary and capricious -- it flies in the face of the purpose of NEPA [the National Environmental Policy Act] and ignores the very heart of what 'operation' means," Duval wrote. The plaintiffs claimed the Corps was not entitled to immunity because its activities regarding the shipping channel "were in direct contravention of professional engineering and safety standards," Duval wrote. "... Ignoring safety and poor engineering are not policy, and clearly the Corps engaged in such activities." "This is not the Corps that built the Panama Canal," said Joe Bruno, another plaintiffs' attorney. "This is a different Corps. This is a Corps that's reckless." The attorneys said they plan to go to Washington after Thanksgiving to meet with the Justice Department. Although the Corps was given immunity from liability in areas like Central New Orleans and New Orleans East, they said they would like to start a settlement process for all citizens. "We want to leave no residents behind," O'Donnell said. "We'd like to have a regional settlement." Whatcha guys think bout dat? No seriously, should the gov't have to pay money to it's citizens?

11-21-2009, 01:51 PM	#3
FocusDude Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lower Lower Bucks Member #6269 My Ride: 01 Focus ZX3 iTrader: (0)	Hindsight is twenty twenty. __________________ 2001 Ford Focus ZX3 - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures. - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

11-21-2009, 06:11 PM	#7
russiankid Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: May 2008 Location: Lincoln University PA Member #7769 My Ride: 2012 Scion tC iTrader: (0)	Well this is old new that it is being blamed on Army Corps of Engineers. The flood gates have not been serviced in 10+ years IIRC. The were not built to withstand a category 5 storm. So with the added bonus of ****ty drain systems, the gates broke. Otherwise, Katrina would not have been that bad and really wasn't. __________________ 2012' Scion tC 6-speed M/T.

11-22-2009, 03:58 AM	#14
dragonfly2k3 Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: Mar 2007 Member #4106 iTrader: (5)	Wow, thats kind of shocking. Has there been any documentation as to anyone requesting repairs/documenting deterioration? Are we just assuming because they didnt do anything they are at fault? Im confused. I dont know alot about the subject, so flame away if needed, but be sure to include facts when you do. __________________ HIDs, they're serious business.

11-22-2009, 10:07 PM	#16
dragonfly2k3 Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: Mar 2007 Member #4106 iTrader: (5)	^^lol! __________________ HIDs, they're serious business.

11-21-2009, 05:52 PM	#4
92sileighty Tri-State Post Whore Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Springfield Member #6020 My Ride: 05 S2000 iTrader: (1)	really? the city is below sea level, what did they think was gonna happen

11-21-2009, 06:07 PM	#5
CANNIBALOFDOOM Tri-State Aficionado Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Palmerton pa Member #13467 My Ride: 2012 Wrx iTrader: (0)	reading a reply with "then it will open the floodgates" had be cracking up. i'm not going to post my view of all of this because it will be a 13 page rant filled with terrible grammar and spelling.

11-21-2009, 06:09 PM	#6
Clutch Tri-State Training Wheels Join Date: Apr 2009 Member #13160 My Ride: 2002 Honda S2000 iTrader: (0)	this is pretty crazy news.

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