Need some help from the SRT4 guys - TriStateTuners.com :: Home of Tristate Auto Enthusiast

downsmustang · 08-24-2009, 11:16 AM

My buddy picked up a used SRT-4 for dirt cheap. He asked me to assemble a list of great supporting mods the get the car build off the ground. So if anyone can chime in to help it would be great. I figure I would come to the authorities instead of looking through the internet for hours. I would need all the basic bolt on's for the car. Thanks fellas.

OMGz Turbo · 08-24-2009, 11:36 AM

FMIC
I prefer AGPs or PSI-FI

3 inch exhaust
Any full turbo back

map clamp [emanage-safc] - 4.0-4.2 volts clamping
Dasmopar clamp, ED emanage, or anyones SAFC. Stage 2 cars should clamp at 3.2-3.5 volts

return line kit
Aaronneons ....duuhh

WGA@ 20-22 psi
AGP!

Plugs gapped @ .30-.32
Stock plugs work the best for me

94-110 octane
Sunoco

No boost leaks
Check and double check!! Zip tie ALL vacuum lines

12.5 MAX a/f ratio. This is the highest I will allow. I keep the cars around 11.5-12.5[max]

Stage 1 or 2 injectors will work perfect
With a return line, the stage 1 injectors will be more than enough fuel that the stock turbo will use. No 750ccs newbs.

Stage 0-2 PCM
There is no need for stage 2. If you have it already, I would sell it. If not, then it can still be done.

300WHP almost everytime.

OMGz Turbo · 08-24-2009, 11:37 AM

Just incase you have questions heres a nice Q&A for the SRT with that setup

Modification Questions

Can it be done without a voltage clamp of some sort?

I would say most likely not. The timing tables are just to low. My theory would be water/alchy, cams and a good ported head , and trying different things on the dyno might get it done. I just dont see the point in not using a clamp though. The safc, emanage, mamp clamp, dtec, power paq will all make it easier.

What is a map clamp?

very simple. The clamp hides boost from the PCM, which in turn keeps timing high. It also leans the fuel curve out.

Why do you ask? Real simple. Every turbo car from the Factory is programed to give more fuel and less timing when the ecu reads higher boost. Now this is dependent to the map sensor. Via 2 bar or 3 bar..or whatever. The map sensor reads the boost and sends a signal via 5 volt , voltage to the pcm. The higher the volts, the more fuel and less timing the motor will see. THis is done to keep yahoos from blowing their motors. The thing is, Mopar went over board with it. They claim that the EGTs[ exhaust temps] get to high with increased boost. That basically means that turning up the boost, even with a healthy A/F ratio can melt your motor. Thats not a good thing. Now we solve that problem via the map clamp. The map clamp will keep the timing high, in turn bleeds some of the EGTs off. I have proven this a million times. Im not going to get into anymore of that crap.

The map clamp will only allow a certain voltage pass through to the pcm. As i stated before the higher the voltage seen by the pcm, the lower the timing and more fuel you get. We all know the srt runs very rich from the factory. So just leaning it out some will make power, let alone raising timing. The map clamp is adjustable so it can act like a fuel mod also. Its basically a crude SAFC, which is a map clamp per rpm instead of per boost.

Will other mods substituded for the ones listed work?

Absolutley. A dumped exhaust will work inplace of a 3"" exhaust. Contact needswings for one. Water alchy will help alot and also bring the egts down and raise timing. I dont recommend other WGA`s though. AGP is by far the best, trust me. I have tried them all. Any piggy back will work in place of the map clamp... I like the dtec the best.

Are all the mods needed?

No. The mods listed are what i feel will keep the car safe and have been proven time and again to work. Others will go a different route. Some it will take more mods and some will take less.

Do I have to use a staged pcm?

No. Any of the pcms out there will get it done. THats why I recommend the stock pcm. Why spend the money if its not needed. IF you want a plug and play car, get a mopar kit. If you want more and are going to tune it, stick with the stocker. If you already have a staged kit, you can sell it, or use it..your choice. The stage 2 is more of a prick with the piggybacks. Yes you can get them to work, but the pcm does act up with some of the piggies out there.

Is the return line needed?

If you are using a stage 2 car or bigger injectors with a piggyback, No it isnt. Its the easiest and cheapest way so thats why I recommend it.

Is a bigger fuel pump needed?

No a walbro 255 is not needed. The stock pump is good enough, but the 255 is only 100 beans. So its a good cheap mod that can be done while adding a return line.

Should I use a cooler thermostat?

YES! You will need to keep the car cool, otherwise your 300whp will drop pretty fast when racing. I recommend a fan switch! A fan switch is your friend. Look in the how 2 section for that. I use a 160 stat, and like it. Others like the 180. Each one will work fine.

Can i use a boostcontroller?

Yes. They arent needed with the AGP wga, thats why I dont mention them. They also spike the turbo more. They will work though

Are colder spark plugs needed?

NO. The stock plugs gapped as listed, work fine. Agp sells a nice set if you want to go aftermarket

Is a bigger FMIC needed?

I havent tuned a 300whp without one, but I would say no. Add some W/I in the mix, and that should get it done. It may take a bit more tuning also. You can also expect a faster decline in power when racing numerous times

What about Water injection?

This is a great mod. It will help with detonation, keeping the egts lower and aid with fueling. Timing will go up, and the combustion chamber gets cleaned. Might be used inplace of a big FMIC. I havent experienced 300whp without a cooler though

Tuning Questions:

Are the boost numbers listed needed and are they spiked or holding

A normal 300whp tune, I use 20 psi holding for awhile falling to 16. That should get it done. For more wtrq I spike it to 22 and falling to 16. You can get these numbers with lower boost, but it will take more tuning for sure. Try some things on the dyno and track and see what works best for you.

Can 20psi be held to redline

Yes, but I havent seen that much of a difference on the dyno to go through the hassel.

Can this be done on pump gas?

Check the mod lits, you see 94 octane on there right? Can it be done with lower octane? Maybe. Anything less than 93, I would use water/alchy injection to be on the safe side. I always recommend atleast 93 to my customers. Cali guys....well you get nice weather so stop beatchin

What fuel pressure should I use?

That needs to be proven on a wideband. No way to say for sure, with the different mods out there. I would start with 50psi with the vacuum line off. Then raise or lower from there

What about EGTs?

Oh boy not this again. If u follow the how 2, you wont have a problem. Street, dyno and track tested. Raising the timing along with a nice a/f ratio will keep the egts in check

What about a/f ratio?

Depends on the gas and persons choice. In an ideal sitiuation with all the tuning crap available.. I would like to see 12.4 across the board and falling to 11.8 at around 5600 to redline. Now that doesnt mean 12s are bad... It just, Thats what ideal is to me.

How do the vacuum lines get set up?

I always use the green line. I like the added torque. I run the pink line to the TB vacuum port, block the blue line and everything else. I dont use the soleniods at all. Also no BLEED is needed.

Misc questions

Will these mods void my warranty?

If you need to asked this question, you need to sell the car and move to greenland

Is this setup good for daily driving?

YES!! Thats the whole point, a 300whp daily driver.

How much does this setup cost?

Depends on the brands and if you bought the stuff new or not. So i wont ball park it

What is the expected track times with this setup?

Depends on driver, track prep and temp, and weight of the car. We all know what das has done, so aim for the 11s

Biggest question of them all:

IS THIS SETUP REALLY SAFE??

We have numerous cars that have thousands of miles with similar setups. not one person to my knowledge has had a problem. now things happen, and that should be taken into condsideration when modding your vehicle. Take it to someone who knows the SRT, not just cars. People make that mistake alot, and it hurst the wallet. Mod your car at your own risk. Running 300whp and higher boost will put alot of strain on the stock turbo. The life will be shortened. how long is unknown. We have cars with 50k miles at 20+psi , but that doesnt mean yours will last that long. I am available for installs and tuning if your in the cleveland ohio area, or want to drive in. Pm me for details

downsmustang · 08-25-2009, 07:38 PM

Here is the plan of attack on the car. We had to replace two sensors today and wired up the iPod adapter and now its on to the bigger and better stuff. I do have a few questions for my experts though. I get the deal with the return fuel line kits and how the returnless style stuff can be a pain in the neck when swapping for bigger injectors. My question is kind of a two fold deal. I'm assuming the SRT4's are just like other turbo cars you open up exhaust and give it some more air to breath and some fuel and they run like a bat out of hell with a good tune on them. The first part of my question would involve how the stock "blow off valve" (I know it isn't really a blow off valve) and if there is a need to buy the up pipe for an actual blow off valve before we put a bigger turbo on the car? Secondly about tuning. Since the stage kits are retired from mopar performance and the aftermarket has some possiblities which would work best? I know SCT software works wonders for some cars, but how about the SRT4's. I like the map clamp sensor and the cost and ease of install, would a hand held tuner from diablo sport or sct be able to help as well or are stand alones really the way to go? The goal for the car is to be a grocery getter with some balls. My buddy builds grand nationals all the time so this car is more of a fun to drive car that he won't mind taking out anytime not just on nice days (alot of his cars are either on drag radials or slicks so driving cars with street tires would be a welcomed change of pace)

The plan of attack was suppose to be:
Exhaust: Mopar/Borla 2.5" with the Needswings Downpipe with electric cut out (The 2.5" exhaust is so his wife doesn't mind taking it out if she has to go somewhere)
Wastegate Actuator: AGP
Intercooler: AGP Street or MPx intercooler
Fuel: Walboro 255 pump
Cold air intake: AGP or AEM something along those lines
Some uppipe and blow off valve combo

It seems like from what was posted that the car needs some injectors and more fuel and a way to lean it back out more then anything else. That coupled with the wastegate actuator.

DaBombDiggidy · 08-26-2009, 10:56 PM

from forward motion... guys are awesome. also their wastegate > agp... agp turbos are not the best quality either
(and they are obviously plugging their parts but other ones are sufficient too.... also dont get a cheap big front mount youll loose power)

Stage 1
Mopar Performance Stage 1
Forward Motion adjustable wastegate actuator
Magnecor 8.5mm wires
NGK V Power spark plugs
Motor Mount inserts (race style)
AEM Cold Air Intake

Stage 2
Add:
3 Inch Cat Back Exhaust
Forward Motion Heavy Duty Drag Mounts
Forward Motion Front Mount Intercooler Kit
TurboXS or Tial blow off valve

Stage 3
Add:
3 Inch Downpipe
Crane #14 Cams
Fidanza Cam Gears
Forward Motion Return Fuel System and 255 LPH Fuel Pump (not needed if you have stage 2)
Remove Balance Shafts

Stage 4
Add:
Forward Motion Enforcer 1 Turbo

Stage 5
Add:
3 Inch O2 housing
FM Max Flow exhaust manifold
Enforcer 2 Turbo

OMGz Turbo · 08-27-2009, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBombDiggidy

from forward motion... guys are awesome. also their wastegate > agp... agp turbos are not the best quality either
(and they are obviously plugging their parts but other ones are sufficient too.... also dont get a cheap big front mount youll loose power)

Stage 1
Mopar Performance Stage 1
Forward Motion adjustable wastegate actuator
Magnecor 8.5mm wires
NGK V Power spark plugs
Motor Mount inserts (race style)
AEM Cold Air Intake

Stage 2
Add:
3 Inch Cat Back Exhaust
Forward Motion Heavy Duty Drag Mounts
Forward Motion Front Mount Intercooler Kit
TurboXS or Tial blow off valve

Stage 3
Add:
3 Inch Downpipe
Crane #14 Cams
Fidanza Cam Gears
Forward Motion Return Fuel System and 255 LPH Fuel Pump (not needed if you have stage 2)
Remove Balance Shafts

Stage 4
Add:
Forward Motion Enforcer 1 Turbo

Stage 5
Add:
3 Inch O2 housing
FM Max Flow exhaust manifold
Enforcer 2 Turbo

Swapping cams is completely unnecessary unless your making over 500hp, the stock cams are more then effecient. Removing the balance shafts id put in the stage 2 catergory. And if you want big turbo power i wouldnt even include the E1. Thats more of a factory turbo than anything

marshallpre1 · 08-27-2009, 02:28 PM

I.... have no comments... I'm keeping my car stock lol

downsmustang · 08-28-2009, 02:38 PM

Thanks for the help guys. I'm looking into forward motion and a few other places as well. The more info the better. The more I read the more I learn and then I can try to piece everything together as I go.

08-24-2009, 11:36 AM	#2
OMGz Turbo Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ltown Member #3108 My Ride: 01' WS6..That whistles...01' Explorer 5.slow iTrader: (0)	FMIC I prefer AGPs or PSI-FI 3 inch exhaust Any full turbo back map clamp [emanage-safc] - 4.0-4.2 volts clamping Dasmopar clamp, ED emanage, or anyones SAFC. Stage 2 cars should clamp at 3.2-3.5 volts return line kit Aaronneons ....duuhh WGA@ 20-22 psi AGP! Plugs gapped @ .30-.32 Stock plugs work the best for me 94-110 octane Sunoco No boost leaks Check and double check!! Zip tie ALL vacuum lines 12.5 MAX a/f ratio. This is the highest I will allow. I keep the cars around 11.5-12.5[max] Stage 1 or 2 injectors will work perfect With a return line, the stage 1 injectors will be more than enough fuel that the stock turbo will use. No 750ccs newbs. Stage 0-2 PCM There is no need for stage 2. If you have it already, I would sell it. If not, then it can still be done. 300WHP almost everytime. __________________ loading HATERS.....99% ████████████████] NO ONE CARES ABOUT BEING TTT APPROVED

08-24-2009, 11:37 AM	#3
OMGz Turbo Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ltown Member #3108 My Ride: 01' WS6..That whistles...01' Explorer 5.slow iTrader: (0)	Just incase you have questions heres a nice Q&A for the SRT with that setup Modification Questions Can it be done without a voltage clamp of some sort? I would say most likely not. The timing tables are just to low. My theory would be water/alchy, cams and a good ported head , and trying different things on the dyno might get it done. I just dont see the point in not using a clamp though. The safc, emanage, mamp clamp, dtec, power paq will all make it easier. What is a map clamp? very simple. The clamp hides boost from the PCM, which in turn keeps timing high. It also leans the fuel curve out. Why do you ask? Real simple. Every turbo car from the Factory is programed to give more fuel and less timing when the ecu reads higher boost. Now this is dependent to the map sensor. Via 2 bar or 3 bar..or whatever. The map sensor reads the boost and sends a signal via 5 volt , voltage to the pcm. The higher the volts, the more fuel and less timing the motor will see. THis is done to keep yahoos from blowing their motors. The thing is, Mopar went over board with it. They claim that the EGTs[ exhaust temps] get to high with increased boost. That basically means that turning up the boost, even with a healthy A/F ratio can melt your motor. Thats not a good thing. Now we solve that problem via the map clamp. The map clamp will keep the timing high, in turn bleeds some of the EGTs off. I have proven this a million times. Im not going to get into anymore of that crap. The map clamp will only allow a certain voltage pass through to the pcm. As i stated before the higher the voltage seen by the pcm, the lower the timing and more fuel you get. We all know the srt runs very rich from the factory. So just leaning it out some will make power, let alone raising timing. The map clamp is adjustable so it can act like a fuel mod also. Its basically a crude SAFC, which is a map clamp per rpm instead of per boost. Will other mods substituded for the ones listed work? Absolutley. A dumped exhaust will work inplace of a 3"" exhaust. Contact needswings for one. Water alchy will help alot and also bring the egts down and raise timing. I dont recommend other WGA`s though. AGP is by far the best, trust me. I have tried them all. Any piggy back will work in place of the map clamp... I like the dtec the best. Are all the mods needed? No. The mods listed are what i feel will keep the car safe and have been proven time and again to work. Others will go a different route. Some it will take more mods and some will take less. Do I have to use a staged pcm? No. Any of the pcms out there will get it done. THats why I recommend the stock pcm. Why spend the money if its not needed. IF you want a plug and play car, get a mopar kit. If you want more and are going to tune it, stick with the stocker. If you already have a staged kit, you can sell it, or use it..your choice. The stage 2 is more of a prick with the piggybacks. Yes you can get them to work, but the pcm does act up with some of the piggies out there. Is the return line needed? If you are using a stage 2 car or bigger injectors with a piggyback, No it isnt. Its the easiest and cheapest way so thats why I recommend it. Is a bigger fuel pump needed? No a walbro 255 is not needed. The stock pump is good enough, but the 255 is only 100 beans. So its a good cheap mod that can be done while adding a return line. Should I use a cooler thermostat? YES! You will need to keep the car cool, otherwise your 300whp will drop pretty fast when racing. I recommend a fan switch! A fan switch is your friend. Look in the how 2 section for that. I use a 160 stat, and like it. Others like the 180. Each one will work fine. Can i use a boostcontroller? Yes. They arent needed with the AGP wga, thats why I dont mention them. They also spike the turbo more. They will work though Are colder spark plugs needed? NO. The stock plugs gapped as listed, work fine. Agp sells a nice set if you want to go aftermarket Is a bigger FMIC needed? I havent tuned a 300whp without one, but I would say no. Add some W/I in the mix, and that should get it done. It may take a bit more tuning also. You can also expect a faster decline in power when racing numerous times What about Water injection? This is a great mod. It will help with detonation, keeping the egts lower and aid with fueling. Timing will go up, and the combustion chamber gets cleaned. Might be used inplace of a big FMIC. I havent experienced 300whp without a cooler though Tuning Questions: Are the boost numbers listed needed and are they spiked or holding A normal 300whp tune, I use 20 psi holding for awhile falling to 16. That should get it done. For more wtrq I spike it to 22 and falling to 16. You can get these numbers with lower boost, but it will take more tuning for sure. Try some things on the dyno and track and see what works best for you. Can 20psi be held to redline Yes, but I havent seen that much of a difference on the dyno to go through the hassel. Can this be done on pump gas? Check the mod lits, you see 94 octane on there right? Can it be done with lower octane? Maybe. Anything less than 93, I would use water/alchy injection to be on the safe side. I always recommend atleast 93 to my customers. Cali guys....well you get nice weather so stop beatchin What fuel pressure should I use? That needs to be proven on a wideband. No way to say for sure, with the different mods out there. I would start with 50psi with the vacuum line off. Then raise or lower from there What about EGTs? Oh boy not this again. If u follow the how 2, you wont have a problem. Street, dyno and track tested. Raising the timing along with a nice a/f ratio will keep the egts in check What about a/f ratio? Depends on the gas and persons choice. In an ideal sitiuation with all the tuning crap available.. I would like to see 12.4 across the board and falling to 11.8 at around 5600 to redline. Now that doesnt mean 12s are bad... It just, Thats what ideal is to me. How do the vacuum lines get set up? I always use the green line. I like the added torque. I run the pink line to the TB vacuum port, block the blue line and everything else. I dont use the soleniods at all. Also no BLEED is needed. Misc questions Will these mods void my warranty? If you need to asked this question, you need to sell the car and move to greenland Is this setup good for daily driving? YES!! Thats the whole point, a 300whp daily driver. How much does this setup cost? Depends on the brands and if you bought the stuff new or not. So i wont ball park it What is the expected track times with this setup? Depends on driver, track prep and temp, and weight of the car. We all know what das has done, so aim for the 11s Biggest question of them all: IS THIS SETUP REALLY SAFE?? We have numerous cars that have thousands of miles with similar setups. not one person to my knowledge has had a problem. now things happen, and that should be taken into condsideration when modding your vehicle. Take it to someone who knows the SRT, not just cars. People make that mistake alot, and it hurst the wallet. Mod your car at your own risk. Running 300whp and higher boost will put alot of strain on the stock turbo. The life will be shortened. how long is unknown. We have cars with 50k miles at 20+psi , but that doesnt mean yours will last that long. I am available for installs and tuning if your in the cleveland ohio area, or want to drive in. Pm me for details __________________ loading HATERS.....99% ████████████████] NO ONE CARES ABOUT BEING TTT APPROVED Last edited by OMGz Turbo; 08-24-2009 at 11:40 AM.

08-27-2009, 02:28 PM	#7
marshallpre1 Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: NY Member #6445 My Ride: N/A iTrader: (1)	I.... have no comments... I'm keeping my car stock lol __________________ Jeremy 1997 Supra TT 6MT- PT67/Vipec/HKS/AEM/etc- fun street car 2004 G35 Coupe 6MT- Brembo pkg- daily/track days 1994 SC300 5MT- NA-T- PT61/AEM V1- future track car

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08-24-2009, 11:16 AM	#1
downsmustang Tri-State Aficionado Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: DELCO, PA Member #2215 My Ride: 2002 Ford Mustang GT iTrader: (0)	Need some help from the SRT4 guys My buddy picked up a used SRT-4 for dirt cheap. He asked me to assemble a list of great supporting mods the get the car build off the ground. So if anyone can chime in to help it would be great. I figure I would come to the authorities instead of looking through the internet for hours. I would need all the basic bolt on's for the car. Thanks fellas.

08-25-2009, 07:38 PM	#4
downsmustang Tri-State Aficionado Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: DELCO, PA Member #2215 My Ride: 2002 Ford Mustang GT iTrader: (0)	Here is the plan of attack on the car. We had to replace two sensors today and wired up the iPod adapter and now its on to the bigger and better stuff. I do have a few questions for my experts though. I get the deal with the return fuel line kits and how the returnless style stuff can be a pain in the neck when swapping for bigger injectors. My question is kind of a two fold deal. I'm assuming the SRT4's are just like other turbo cars you open up exhaust and give it some more air to breath and some fuel and they run like a bat out of hell with a good tune on them. The first part of my question would involve how the stock "blow off valve" (I know it isn't really a blow off valve) and if there is a need to buy the up pipe for an actual blow off valve before we put a bigger turbo on the car? Secondly about tuning. Since the stage kits are retired from mopar performance and the aftermarket has some possiblities which would work best? I know SCT software works wonders for some cars, but how about the SRT4's. I like the map clamp sensor and the cost and ease of install, would a hand held tuner from diablo sport or sct be able to help as well or are stand alones really the way to go? The goal for the car is to be a grocery getter with some balls. My buddy builds grand nationals all the time so this car is more of a fun to drive car that he won't mind taking out anytime not just on nice days (alot of his cars are either on drag radials or slicks so driving cars with street tires would be a welcomed change of pace) The plan of attack was suppose to be: Exhaust: Mopar/Borla 2.5" with the Needswings Downpipe with electric cut out (The 2.5" exhaust is so his wife doesn't mind taking it out if she has to go somewhere) Wastegate Actuator: AGP Intercooler: AGP Street or MPx intercooler Fuel: Walboro 255 pump Cold air intake: AGP or AEM something along those lines Some uppipe and blow off valve combo It seems like from what was posted that the car needs some injectors and more fuel and a way to lean it back out more then anything else. That coupled with the wastegate actuator.

08-28-2009, 02:38 PM	#8
downsmustang Tri-State Aficionado Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: DELCO, PA Member #2215 My Ride: 2002 Ford Mustang GT iTrader: (0)	Thanks for the help guys. I'm looking into forward motion and a few other places as well. The more info the better. The more I read the more I learn and then I can try to piece everything together as I go.