Obama's plan for Universal Healthcare...opinions

[CleanNeon98]

Discuss your thoughts on this.

[c0nfl1kt]

Like the stimulus, it's a huge bill that even if divided into 10 seperate bills would be, by themselves, huge bills. It's going to take years if not a whole decade for it to fully impact the insurance companies. At the same time, the insurance companies see huge potential clients if it does create competition for them and lowers prices. Also, everyone is required to get insurance, so chances are high that they will get a big chunk of new customers. Just like mandatory car insurance, health insurance is necessary because too many people are way too dumb to get it themselves and then complain about giant bills for the rest of their lives.

In short, I agree with the idea, but I want specifics on coverage before I decide to switch to the government plan or keep my private.

[Got Insulin?]

Ever sat for hours upon hours at the DMV, only to get to the desk, and have a blatant asshole take care of you, and act like you're some type of burden to them? Imagine that in a hospital, with a broken ankle. I like the idea, but there's no way I'm going to get put on some list to see a doctor six months from now so I can get my insulin perscription changed.

[Proven]

I also agree with the above.. It's a great idea and I fully support Obama. I think most that don't agree with this program are either republican or just dont like Obama in general so their thoughts are sku'ed.

[Got Insulin?]

Originally Posted by Proven

I also agree with the above.. It's a great idea and I fully support Obama. I think most that don't agree with this program are either republican or just dont like Obama in general so their thoughts are sku'ed.

Actually, I am a Dem, and voted for the Obamanator, I just think that there's not enough planning involved, and that people don't realize that this could take, like, ten years to get 85% rolling. There's alot involved with this- aside from the cash. Have any of you ever been to a doctor abroad? I have, and it wasn't pleasant. If fact, his complete misdiagnosis could have cost a friend her life.

[StiChick06]

on subject but at the same time off the subject... there should be a cap put on, on how much a hospital or doctor or anything medical can cost. the price and cost's are outrageous! if that gets capped then insurance rates would go down since they won't have to pay out as much.

[c0nfl1kt]

I think eventually there will be a limit to what you can get done. Just like with communications companies, the influx of people getting treatment will force insurance companies to put caps(they are doing something like that right now). Anything over standard will be paid out of pocket or the carrier might just decide to pay for parts of it. But yeah, it's going to take years to go into full effect just like the stimulus. You just don't take Tylenol and it takes effect right away. It needs to work its way through the bloodstream. This will need to work its way through a huge nation of 47,000,000 uninsured.

[bastid]

I think smarter people need to take a greater amount of time than what will be allowed to make these kinds of decisions.

[c0nfl1kt]

Originally Posted by bastid

I think smarter people need to take a greater amount of time than what will be allowed to make these kinds of decisions.

This idea has been floating around since the early 1990's thought about and thoroughly worked on by very smart people. The only reason it failed last time was because of heavy lobbying by the healthcare insurance industry. Now, that same industry is on the administrations side. Chalk one up for the good guys, in my book.

[importpower99]

Bill Clinton tried in the ninities and got his ass chewed for it.

There will be no waiting list for healthcare (STOP WATCHING FOX NEWS).
It is not going to be like canadain healthcare.
THIS WILL BE AN OPTION!
You do not have to take this health care plan.

It is being put in place to help individuals and familes afford health care. And it will have lower premiums, so it will be compitition for private insurance. Which means they will lower there rates, to now stay competitive.


(This is not free, or socialized health care).

However, Obama needs to take his time and not rush it. I would rather it take another year and have it done right. Rather then have it done next month and have it done half assed.

[The Captain]

...will be the downfall of his presidency. There are easier ways to lower health care costs. Malpractice is the ultimate killer. Insurance costs so much because doctors have to charge so much to pay the insurance companies to cover for malpractice.

[bastid]

Originally Posted by c0nfl1kt

This idea has been floating around since the early 1990's thought about and thoroughly worked on by very smart people. The only reason it failed last time was because of heavy lobbying by the healthcare insurance industry. Now, that same industry is on the administrations side. Chalk one up for the good guys, in my book.

They are promising quality, affordability, and availability. Laws of business state that we will only ever truly receive 2 of these 3.

[bastid]

Originally Posted by importpower99

Bill Clinton tried in the ninities and got his ass chewed for it.

There will be no waiting list for healthcare (STOP WATCHING FOX NEWS).
It is not going to be like canadain healthcare.
THIS WILL BE AN OPTION!
You do not have to take this health care plan.

It is being put in place to help individuals and familes afford health care. And it will have lower premiums, so it will be compitition for private insurance. Which means they will lower there rates, to now stay competitive.


(This is not free, or socialized health care).

However, Obama needs to take his time and not rush it. I would rather it take another year and have it done right. Rather then have it done next month and have it done half assed.

Go to a DMV or Post Office lately?

All kidding aside, there are 9000 people turning 65 daily. $1 out of every $5 dollars spent in our economy is on healthcare, 80% of which going to treating chronic conditions - found in a much higher frequency among the elderly. Specifically diabetes, hypertension, CAD, CHF, asthma, etc. Additionally, we are moving toward a 5 figure physician shortage.

Now, take 47,000,000 people, of whom a large percentage are using the ER as their primary care physicians because they can, and line them up each 5 times per year on average and tell me there won't be an availability problem unless we find another quarter million primary care physicians.

This problem will not be fixed with a new insurance plan without SERIOUS sacrifice either by patients, doctors, taxpayers, a combination, or all of the above.

[zex97]

The thing that bothers me about this plan is the cost and who is going to pay for it. He wants to tax those that make over 250,000 a year more. One day I'd like to be in that group and I don't want to carry the tax burden, what is the incentive to enterprise if you are just going to take more than 50% in combined taxes from me. The middle class will inevitably be taxed for this. Also I have a feeling this program will turn out like all the rest the gov runs, like medicaid, medicare, ss...etc....Broke!

[SpEcRv9]

Originally Posted by zex97

The thing that bothers me about this plan is the cost and who is going to pay for it. He wants to tax those that make over 250,000 a year more. One day I'd like to be in that group and I don't want to carry the tax burden, what is the incentive to enterprise if you are just going to take more than 50% in combined taxes from me. The middle class will inevitably be taxed for this. Also I have a feeling this program will turn out like all the rest the gov runs, like medicaid, medicare, ss...etc....Broke!

when you make 250k a year, a little extra tax isn't a burden..

when you make 30k a year, a little extra tax IS a burden..

it's gonna continue to be the case of the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer either way....

[bastid]

Originally Posted by SpEcRv9

when you make 250k a year, a little extra tax isn't a burden..

when you make 30k a year, a little extra tax IS a burden..

it's gonna continue to be the case of the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer either way....

I'm not following...

An additional 4% of taxes on $250,000 on top of the 33% tax bracket is $92,500 total.

The $30,000 tax bracket is at 15%, or $4,500 total annually.

How do the "rich get richer" when you take more money away from them, and the "poor get poorer" when you don't take anything more from them?

[importpower99]

Originally Posted by bastid

Go to a DMV or Post Office lately?

All kidding aside, there are 9000 people turning 65 daily. $1 out of every $5 dollars spent in our economy is on healthcare, 80% of which going to treating chronic conditions - found in a much higher frequency among the elderly. Specifically diabetes, hypertension, CAD, CHF, asthma, etc. Additionally, we are moving toward a 5 figure physician shortage.

Now, take 47,000,000 people, of whom a large percentage are using the ER as their primary care physicians because they can, and line them up each 5 times per year on average and tell me there won't be an availability problem unless we find another quarter million primary care physicians.

This problem will not be fixed with a new insurance plan without SERIOUS sacrifice either by patients, doctors, taxpayers, a combination, or all of the above.

So your saying that if there is affordable healthcare it would fail because the people that are sick will actually go to the doctor now instead of dying? Causing an influx of new patients in doctor office's around the nation?

But under the same breath you are also saying that we would need more doctors, and more family doctors will open up for business? How is that bad?

So I ask you....whats your plan?
Because what we have now isn't working.
We call it a health plan system when it is really a sick care system. It cost less to keep people well than to treat them after they become sick. How does that make sense to you?


And like I said I would rather wait and have it done right, then too soon and half assed.

And I stay away from the DMV. When I need my drivers license re-newed I go to a satilite office.

[bastid]

Originally Posted by importpower99

So your saying that if there is affordable healthcare it would fail because the people that are sick will actually go to the doctor now instead of dying? Causing an influx of new patients in doctor office's around the nation?

People who do not have insurance are using the ER's for common colds, abdominal pain, and other very routine problems because they won't be turned away. This is why, especially at a charity care organization, you wait a long time to get seen in the ER.

And, I'm not saying it will fail either because the definition of "failure" is subjective to some extent. I'm simply stating that it is a pipe dream to have affordable, available, and quality healthcare all at the same time without a complete overhaul of the system.

Originally Posted by importpower99

But under the same breath you are also saying that we would need more doctors, and more family doctors will open up for business? How is that bad?

We will need a quarter million more family doctors by 2020, as less and less people strive to be a family practitioner to pay ridiculous malpractice insurance premiums and deal with all of the other baggage in becoming a physician for an average take home of $130,000 annually. Why do that when you can become an ophthalmic surgeon, pretty much never risk a patient's life, and make more like $400-600,000 a year? Do we pay family practitioners more? Where does this money come from?

Originally Posted by importpower99

So I ask you....whats your plan?

1. Cap malpractice judgments and only provide maximum judgment where gross negligence is proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Penalize those who try to exploit the system with bull**** lawsuits.

2. Make it easier for physicians to practice medicine and not spend so much time with everything that detracts away from them treating their patients. This will largely come with automation of antiquated practices like using paper and faxes to record and exchange information.

3. Kind of goes along with #2 - make it easier for physicians to get paid fairly for the services they deliver. Approximately 30% of all medical claims get rejected the first time they are submitted to an insurance carrier. Half of these rejected claims are never refiled due to various inefficiencies in physician offices. A 15% hit in revenue represents approximately 28% of a physician's bottom line.

4. Audit insurance companies to ensure they are paying fairly and not gaming the system.

5. Pay better physicians more money based on outcomes and evidence of providing superior care than their peers. This should attract more academic hotshots into medicine like the days of old vs. law, banking, etc.

6. Transfer common acute medical care/treatment for things such as colds, influenza, rashes, acne, pink eye, to nurse practitioners and physician assistants and take these common cases out of the hands of the physicians so they can treat more serious and/or chronic conditions.

Originally Posted by importpower99

Because what we have now isn't working.
We call it a health plan system when it is really a sick care system. It cost less to keep people well than to treat them after they become sick. How does that make sense to you?

Is this a copy paste of an Obama speaking point? Understand that the largest generation in America (the baby boomers) is aging, and not aging well. On a go forward basis your principles make sense, and I agree. However, we'll have somewhere well north of 50 million people age 65 or older within 10 years. These are the people that drank like fish and smoked like chimneys because no one knew any better.

It makes absolutely no sense as a country trying to stabilize the worst economy in 75 years to open the flood gates when there is not an infrastructure to support it. That's like doubling the amount of users on a network without taking the appropriate steps to first make sure the infrastructure and bandwidth is deep enough to handle the additional load without performance degradation.

Originally Posted by importpower99

And like I said I would rather wait and have it done right, then too soon and half assed.

Like the Stimulus and Cap and Trade? I agree with you 110%.

[SpEcRv9]

Originally Posted by bastid

I'm not following...

An additional 4% of taxes on $250,000 on top of the 33% tax bracket is $92,500 total.

The $30,000 tax bracket is at 15%, or $4,500 total annually.

How do the "rich get richer" when you take more money away from them, and the "poor get poorer" when you don't take anything more from them?

yeah, I meant in general....the rich get richer the poor get poorer it's how it always will be....it was a poor choice of words to use in that statment after my first point haha...that statment really doens't belong in this thread after a taxation issue lol...

[4DR_DB7]

The Albeit Over-Simplified Truth = Obama is fighting against the Drug Companies and Health Insurance Conglomerates. They are the ones who send lobbyists to buy out/influence the congressman and senators (mostly republican in this case) who are, and have been, the ones fighting a more modernized universal health-care system for YEARS.

All I know is, whatever is opposite of what the Drug Companies and Health INsurance companies want, is probably best for the American People. The opponents try to spin the facts to make you think you have to buy into the Universal plan. That is complete BS. IF you have healthcare thru your work, or even purchase your own direct from a provider, and you are happy with it..... you can keep it. Good for you. Its everyone else (aka. the majority of the county) who isn't happy with their plans or who can't afford them that this plan really benefits.