Blackwater (Xe), Triple Canopy, DynCorp, etc.

[DC2.2GSR]

I searched for similar threads and the only one that came up was one from 2 years ago and it was filled with a bunch of random BS.

I'm reading the book Blackwater by Jeremy Scahill right now and i've been doing a lot of research about privatization using these "contractors". I've always had some kind of opinion about privatization of the military, but I was never sure what exactly I thought about it until I read this book. after learning about the specifics of what goes on with and without anyone else knowing and what these people are getting away with, it's very obvious to me now. These companies scare the living hell out of me, and they should scare you too.

free roam in the middle east to do whatever and shoot whoever they want with absolutely NO accountability (i.e. 'Baghdad's Bloody Sunday')... Christian extremism in the USA... BILLIONS and billions of dollars of our money used to trick the world into thinking we have fewer troops in Iraq... etc. etc. all of this and much more has been going on since Sept. 11 and before without ANY questioning from the American people.

has anyone else ever been interested enough to actually research any of these 'private contractors' more in depth than simply watching a youtube video showing battle footage? is anyone else as disturbed and pissed off as i am that this bullsh*t is happening with our money and is making the world hate the US more and more every day?

[den9]

they arent all that bad, i know black water has a bad rep, alot of these companies are from other countries like england, and most of them just pull security for politicians, film crews and business men. i dont think they are all that bad, but i cant really judge since i never been over there. i guess its good they get the job done, when us forces cant do **** because they have ridiculous rules of engagement.

they get paid i think a grand a day, i heard its cheaper than us soldiers because they dont have to pay benefits or any of that long term stuff. pretty much all of these guys are ex special forces who want to actually make money for what they do, and alot of them ride in soft skinned suv's and get killed.

mercenaries been around around for hundreds of years, this is nothing new. nobody ever realized it until fallujah when those blackwater guys were killed and hung from a bridge.

[den9]

if u want to read a good book pick this up, its the best book i ever picked up, if you find the war interesting you will like this.

[drifty240]

Somebody has been watching to much "24" Blackwater is not that bad.

[den9]

they just have bad rep for shooting cars that get in their way, you cant blame them when they are driving unarmored suburbans and a car could fly up and blow up on them.

they also shoot everything in site after an ied goes off, because usually theres a follow up attack with ak47's

[DC2.2GSR]

Originally Posted by drifty240

Somebody has been watching to much "24" Blackwater is not that bad.

this 'somebody' has never seen a single episode. i'm assuming maybe it has something to do with companies running the govt?

blackwater and similar corporations do nothing but profit from war. sure mercenaries have been around forever, but blackwater has taken it to a new level. these 'contractors' can do whatever they want without having to worry about ever being held responsible for what they've done. thousands of US troops have been court marshaled and discharged and/or sent to prison for a single inhumane or negative event. these employees can kill anyone they feel like and get away with it because the US State Dept has granted contractors immunity from ANY law. War Crimes trials? yep... they've tried and they cannot convict them of a single thing. blackwater has openly declared its forces above the law. they insist thaty they cannot be held to the Pentagon's uniform code of military justice, insisting that they are civilians... but at the same time, they say they cannot be tried as civilians for crimes because they are a part of the "US Total Force" and the convictions would limit their ability to perform their duties. basically they'r esaying that their jobs require them to be lawless and have the right to kill anyone anywhere anytime.

the killings in Nisour Square in Baghdad weren't even covered in the news. it was filtered. the State Dept. didn't want to let it out. the Blackwater convoys turned onto a one-way street the wrong way and drove straight toward a single car who had the right of way. when the car got within 50 feet, before the driver had a chance to stop, a blackwater employee shot the 18 year old driver in the face. the car continued to drift forward and blackwater proceeded to kill the boys mother, the Iraqi police officer who was trying to help the kid who was shot in the face, and 11 other innocent people in the square. all because the convoy turned the wrong way onto a one way street. after the 15 minutes of killing were over, not one single non-blackwater weapon or shell casing was found. these people were minding their own business and got killed by trigger happy mercenaries. evidently "protecting" the one US State Dept. official they were transporting was more important than 14 innocent people. there's no discretion used, it's "kill everyone who looks suspicious and let em figure out later if they were hostile or not". it's disgusting. Blackwater boasts a reputation of never having a single VIP killed, but that's at a tremendous cost... hundreds of innocent lives.

after the Nisour square massacre, the US State Dept. started an "investigation" into Blackwater. that's the first time Eric Prince appeared in public representing Blackwater Worldwide. the investigation went nowhere. you know what happened to Blackwater? they signed more contracts and upped their force in Iraq. Families of the dead Iraqis were present to see Blackwater employees be punished for their crimes and they went back to their homes disgusted because nothing happened. the Iraqi govt. was furious, but could do nothing about it.

in addition to the way they opperate, if you break everything down and look at the statistics and facts, they are so tied into this country's inner workings it's sickening. Eric Prince (founder of Blackwater) and his family are heavily connected with the CNP and Christian extremists that run the country. they've got their hands in everything. they cannot be seriously investigated or get in trouble for anything because they are the government. they are written into the plan for the 'US War Machine'...

it's like working with a kid who is the boss' son. the kid is a d-bag and gets away with murder (figuratively) because no one can say anything to the boss about his own son. if you do, it goes nowhere because the boss won't fire his son or get him in trouble. the boss tells you he's going to do something about it, but behind closed doors you know nothing was said because the kid continues to do whatever the hell he wants. the only difference is that with Blackwater, it's literally getting away with murder.

to those of you who say blackwater and similar companies aren't that bad, seriously... research some of this stuff. i guarantee you'll change your minds. it's so disturbing.

[drifty240]

Profit from war? From a person that has been on both sides of the fence Private Contractor and US Army Ranger. Unfortunately in today's world it is not that clean cut in war and violence. You highlight all the action that make the press because they are news worthy. What about...

1. March 31, 2004, Iraqi insurgents in Fallujah attacked a convoy containing four American private military contractors from Blackwater USA who were conducting delivery for food caterers ESS. The four contractors, Scott Helvenston, Jerry Zovko, Wesley Batalona and Michael Teague, were attacked and killed with grenades and small arms fire. Their bodies were hung from a bridge crossing the Euphrates

2.In April 2004, a few days after the Fallujah bridge hanging, a small team of Blackwater employees, along with a fire team of U.S. Marines, held off over 400 insurgents outside the Coalition Provisional Authority headquarters in Al Najaf, Iraq, waiting for U.S. troops to arrive. The headquarters was surrounded and it was the last area in the city that remained in coalition control. During the siege, as supplies and ammunition ran low, a team of Blackwater contractors 70 miles (113 km) away flew to the compound to resupply and bring an injured U.S. Marine back to safety outside of the city.

3. Had a $1.2 billion contract for private security in Iraq renewed by the State Department

I don't know what else to really say. I understand how you can form your disregard for Blackwater but the only thing you see about them are the bad. Its news worthy, know one wants to see the good. Who do you think protects the civilian doctors and workers that are in country?

[DC2.2GSR]

yes, they profit from war. if there was not an occupation of Iraq, Blackwater would still be the small, small arms training facility it was in 2000. the Prince family would still be incredibly wealthy and have strong connections withing the radical right wing government, but it would not be on the level it is today. as an example, Blackwater had $736,906 in federal contracts in the fiscal year 2001. By '06, it was over $593 million. That's over an 80,000% increase. That's profiting from war. Bush has taken the privatization to the extreme level that it is today, but even under Clinton, it was still SOP.

in my opinion it's not right to be shifting all of the military's responsibilities (who have laws to abide by and whose actions have consequences) to private contractors who can do whatever they please and who have no one to answer to. In fact, I agree with a lot of the people opposed to Blackwater in saying that according to US law, a contract with Blackwater or any similar organization is in direct violation of the Anti-Pinkerton Act. It's illegal to employ a civilian mercenary group. again, this is where evidently Blackwater is above the law because as you pointed out, their contract was renewed yet again.

Why do you think they hung the burned bodies? Could it be the level of hatred for Blackwater because of their brutality? Could it be because they're sick of the unwarranted killings? Even the US troops are sick of blackwater. they kill innocent people, and then the Iraqis kill US troops because they think the US military forces are the ones responsible for the killings. Blackwater's lawlessness creates more of a headache for the military because it's one step forward, two steps back.

the protection of civilian doctors and workers is fine. when it involves blindly shooting first and asking questions later then it is completely unacceptable.

i can say the same but opposite to you... you only seem to give validity to the reports of violence against blackwater and the times they have sucessfully helped protect the US troops. when you start to dig a bit deeper, you realize that the bad far outweighs the good.

[drifty240]

Originally Posted by DC2.2GSR

Why do you think they hung the burned bodies? Could it be the level of hatred for Blackwater because of their brutality? Could it be because they're sick of the unwarranted killings? Even the US troops are sick of blackwater. they kill innocent people, and then the Iraqis kill US troops because they think the US military forces are the ones responsible for the killings. Blackwater's lawlessness creates more of a headache for the military because it's one step forward, two steps back.

Apparently you have not seen the beheading of civilian contractors or the dragging of the pilots body's down the street in Somalia. Not everyone believes in the Geneva Convention.

Originally Posted by DC2.2GSR

the protection of civilian doctors and workers is fine. when it involves blindly shooting first and asking questions later then it is completely unacceptable.

Shooting blindly is easy to say when your sitting behind your computer. In a country were 12 year old boys carry AK47's. And at anytime someone could be a suicide bomber or there to ambush you what would you do. I am sure if you ask nicely they will not shoot you.... I was in Somali and Iraq and if you walk around not thinking everyone is or could kill you , you will not make it home. I am not promoting violence just an awareness.

Originally Posted by DC2.2GSR

i can say the same but opposite to you... you only seem to give validity to the reports of violence against blackwater and the times they have sucessfully helped protect the US troops. when you start to dig a bit deeper, you realize that the bad far outweighs the good.

Digging deeper only shows more of what the press wants you to see. Happiness does not sale papers or keep readership up.

[Scapegoat]

i'd rather an experienced mercenary be at war than a fresh faced 18 year old kid.

I also hold no compassion for the innocents of a country and people who have been known to strap bombs to children and infants and use them as bait to kill our boys and girls... if the animals over there weren't so willing to kill themselves to kill us there would be no need to take such drastic measures to keep our people safe and secure.

their own people created a situation where every other citizen is a potential threat.

[den9]

its hard to say, would you rather be 18 and in the army or a ex special forces contractor.

contractors get paid alot more, but dont have armored vehicles, they can leave whenever they want though

if your in the military im sure you have a sense of pride, and a loyal teammates to back you up and help you out. the pay probably sucks and you can leave whenever you want.

if i ever went over there it would sure as hell not be for the money, and id want to be riding in a stryker

[Scapegoat]

Originally Posted by den9

its hard to say, would you rather be 18 and in the army or a ex special forces contractor.

contractors get paid alot more, but dont have armored vehicles, they can leave whenever they want though

if your in the military im sure you have a sense of pride, and a loyal teammates to back you up and help you out. the pay probably sucks and you can leave whenever you want.

if i ever went over there it would sure as hell not be for the money, and id want to be riding in a stryker

at what the military pays them, i'm surprised the contractors don't have armored vehicles of any kind... in fact, i'd say i don't believe that at all.

All that being said, i'm not in their position... nor will i ever be. My opinion still stands, i'd rather have a mercenary fighting for us than an 18 y/o

[den9]

Originally Posted by Scapegoat

at what the military pays them, i'm surprised the contractors don't have armored vehicles of any kind... in fact, i'd say i don't believe that at all.

All that being said, i'm not in their position... nor will i ever be. My opinion still stands, i'd rather have a mercenary fighting for us than an 18 y/o

im confused? the military doesnt pay contractors, and the contractors dont have any armored vehicles as far as im concerned, if they do maybe 1 outta 20? im dont really understand what your saying though.

[Scapegoat]

Originally Posted by den9

im confused? the military doesnt pay contractors, and the contractors dont have any armored vehicles as far as im concerned, if they do maybe 1 outta 20?

meant government...

not sure how they don't have armored vehicles as far as you're concerned. it seems kinda ridiculous for a company to send in valuable employees w/o protection.

[cszakolczai]

Originally Posted by Scapegoat

meant government...

not sure how they don't have armored vehicles as far as you're concerned. it seems kinda ridiculous for a company to send in valuable employees w/o protection.

They have armored vehicles. Just because they don't drive around in Camoflaged Humvee's does not mean that the black shiney Suburban isn't armor plated with bullet proof glass. Black Water is an interesting company from what I've heard and read about. I receive newsletters from them on a regular basis. I have heard from certain sources that companies such as Triple Canopy require a higher standard then say Blackwater. I of course cannot support this with actual facts, because I cannot look at the Blackwater employee's DD214 VS the Triple Canopy employee's DD214. I believe that contracting companies are growing and are profiting off this war more then we may realize. I understand the need for said companies, but I can also see this being a very large problem in the future for the US government and wherever Blackwater may enter. On the other hand, I did find it very interesting when Blackwater was told to leave Iraq.

[Bane]

Ive gone down to Blackwater for tactical training, met plenty of the contractors, great guys, do messed up things go down over there sure but you dont fight fair when your at war

Their vehicles and weapons are the real deal they arnt rolling around in open top Jeep Wranglers

[cszakolczai]

Also, as I touched on before, just because the guys don't have full loadouts and huge tactical vests does not mean they don't have that on their person. They are contractors who are meant to be as civilized and deadly as possible.

[DC2.2GSR]

Originally Posted by cszakolczai

I believe that contracting companies are growing and are profiting off this war more then we may realize. I understand the need for said companies, but I can also see this being a very large problem in the future for the US government and wherever Blackwater may enter. On the other hand, I did find it very interesting when Blackwater was told to leave Iraq.

this is exactly my point. a need for them (on some level) has developed, but the extent of the company's reach is what is dangerous. that's what i was talking about when i said 'dig deeper' a few posts above. i don't mean dig deeper into what the news media has chosen or been told what to report. dig into the actual facts about these companies (i.e. who they are, who they know, where they've been, and where they're going) and you'll start to see the big picture. it's not some conspiracy theory, it's the cold hard truth about what is going on.

i also found it interesting how Blackwater was told to leave Iraq... and that they did nothing of the sort. refer back to the above posts concerning Blackwater getting away with anything. no laws anywhere apply to them.

Bane - the tactical training is the 'good side' of Blackwater. they are professionals and their training programs really are second to none. if you are in law enforcement or the military or have the cash and desire, Blackwater's training facilities are the "one stop shop" (as the like to say). it's just really sad that the quality training has to be tied to such a terrible group of businessmen and politicians with their own agendas and that overseas, blackwater opperates in such a horrible way.

[ndubz]

With great power come great corruption. Motives on all sides are ****ed. This is war, there are no rules. the Geneva accords and other treaties are a complete joke. The simple fact is that it is our nature to fight with each other. It is also in our nature to be greedy. Mercenaries combine the two. The world sucks dude, get used to it. As Roosevelt said, "the only thing to fear is fear itself". So just go about your day and be glad your not a target.

I agree with you in many regards, but what are we really going to do? I have done much research into the current global situations. But the fact is that we are powerless. So we can talk about it all we want but nobody is gonna do anything to change things.

[den9]

im not saying they are riding in open top jeeps, im not saying they dont have armored personnel carriers either, but i know they definetly ride in armorless suv's too.

those guys who got hung on the bridge were driving in a soft skinned suv

even the marines lack armor in their humvees, sometimes they put sandbags on the floor to protect themselves if an ied goes off.


check this out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzzHwaIONRE