Q about electronic boost controllers

[Intercooled T]

I still don't understand how they work. My car uses a wastegate solenoid that feeds a non-adjustable WG actuator to provide boost. (15-16psi factory)

Now, I've bought a used adj. WG actuator, so would it make more sense to use the adj. WG actuator in conjunction with the factory WG solenoid, or just put the adj. actuator on full boost and use an electronic boost controller to regulate it?

Sorry, that's like a few different questions, not sure how better to word this...

[SexyDSM95]

Put it this way, if you can use a manual boost controller to increase/decrease the amount of boost that you want your car to push, then an EBC theory would work the same way. The only difference is that it would be electronic, be easier to set, and better regulated compared to a ball and spring MBC.

[Intercooled T]

well the adj actuator is 'adjusted' by a tool that opens/closes the actuator.

I'm sure it'd be easier to change boost electronically on the fly, but does the electronic controller just act and function like the original WG solenoid?

[SexyDSM95]

Well hrmm it seems to me that your solenoid is controlled by that tool (manually) and not by the ECU? I am not quite getting what you are saying there.

I believe an EBC would work better by the stock solenoid being ECU controlled. So it'll lower boost based on RPM, knock,.....Most aftermarket ones use a stepper motor for faster response at high boost.

P.S. I thought all stock WG's were "non-adjustable" (with the exception of some internal actuators that have the threaded rod) hence the whole reasoning for a MBC...

[KrautFed20V]

What a Boost controller does (whether it be MBC or EBC) is basically restrict the flow of charge air to the wastegate until it reaches the specified boost then "opens up" to actuate the waste gate, it doesnt' replace the way the actuator works, just modifies the flow of air to it... you can still see small gains from an adjustable actuator because it will also hold boost longer (takes longer to open)

[SexyDSM95]

Originally Posted by KrautFed20V

What a Boost controller does (whether it be MBC or EBC) is basically restrict the flow of charge air to the wastegate until it reaches the specified boost then "opens up" to actuate the waste gate, it doesnt' replace the way the actuator works, just modifies the flow of air to it... you can still see small gains from an adjustable actuator because it will also hold boost longer (takes longer to open)

..yea what he said and an EBC does not replace your existing solenoid either. It's stil vac in/out, then wiring instructions. Just in case you thought that.

[igo4bmx]

FYI good EBC's offer fuzzy logic, which help the controller understand the boost response of the turbo and adapt and help control and respond appropraitely. (aka faster and steadier)

[2point4DSM]

Originally Posted by igo4bmx

FYI good EBC's offer fuzzy logic

Although excellent in theory, fuzzy logic controllers don't work well with some setups... ie, DSMs. Not exactly sure why but this has been shown to the be the case over and over again. And frankly it's not worth the money.

Just make sure you look into a controller that is going to be able to give you the max boost you want. Some EBCs are limited to low boost.

The difference btw EBC and manual controllers is that EBC don't have to leak air all the time therefore making boost response faster. I suppose they use a quick response type of valve/actuator.

I'm using an HKS EVC-EZ. Good for 30+ psi of boost. Very simple unit. Has a on/off button and adjustable gain knob that mounts in the car connected by wires to the valve mounted under the hood. The valve is then connected to a boost/vacuum source and the turbo wastegate actuator.

[snakeeyes]

fuzzy logic controllers are junk

the simpler EBCs are best, like Profec B

in theory MBC should provide best response because the WG fully closed doesn't see a signal until you hit the desired boost

[Intercooled T]

Ok, I got it now. Yea, the ECM controls the solenoid, which controls the air flow to the actuator. Who uses a profec 1 or 2? That's what I've heard works best for my setup.

thanks!

[1988 Olds]

I've heard those were good. I spend alot of useless time on www.turbobuick.com. Hopefully one day I will own one or acquire my mom's.

I still think you should just get/make a manual one man but controlling the boost electronically is cool too I guess. You can mount those vacumm ones inside the car. You already have the boost gauges so. Can't wait man. Lets put that intercooler on lol.

[2point4DSM]

The problem with mounting a manual boost controller in the car is that the longer the vacuum lines on the boost controller the slower it responds. So then you start getting lag and or ridiculous spikes in boost.

There are manual boost controllers out there that let you place the actuator in the engine bay and then runs a solid type of line into the cabin. The line is more like a sheathed solid flexible wire.

I'm sure one of the vendors on here probably sells them. Hallman came up with them a while back and if I remember correctly he was a GN guy that went to DSMs.

[1988 Olds]

Good Point man. I think that's exactly what the one's I'm thinking about are like. I'm not really up to date on these Turbo cars at all man. I have no idea about ECM or Electric Boost Controllers. I guess it is like a steel cable that turns a valve. Doesn't sound very reliable. I guess going with the electronic one is alot nicer piece. Is it like a valve you can control for the scanmaster.

[KrautFed20V]

only problem with EBC is $$$ compared to MBC, that's why i don't mind getting out of the car

[2point4DSM]

Actually, most of the fast guys consider the manual boost controllers a lot more reliable than the electronic ones. Sort of like the idea of crank vs. power windows.

[SexyDSM95]

Originally Posted by 2point4DSM

Actually, most of the fast guys consider the manual boost controllers a lot more reliable than the electronic ones. Sort of like the idea of crank vs. power windows.

How is it more reliable when most MBC's don't hold boost too well and/or leak?

[alachua]

if you want to get fancy, you can get a dual manual boost controller. This has two different valves, set for different boost levals, and has a small solenoid before them. The solenoid is hooked inside the car, and allows you to switch between high and low boost with a button. Manual controller simplicity and 'reliability', with selectable boost levels.

-Cliff

[2point4DSM]

Originally Posted by SexyDSM95

How is it more reliable when most MBC's don't hold boost too well and/or leak?

It's all about the type of spring and how well it resists corrosion in there. A cheap MBC is going to be made of steel or something else that rusts easily and/or have a crappy spring. I had a dejon dual boost controller that lasted a year. But there are also cheap EBCs that have some crappy internals.

A good MBC is more reliable than a good EBC just because there are less parts to fail. With an EBC you not only have to worry about the solenoid/valve/actuator portion going bad but you also have to worry about the electronics. With a good MBC, just lube it every once in a while and your golden.

[the mike]

My biggest problem with MBC's are the PTFB(part throttle full boost) issues. Essentially the MBC allows full boost at part throttle. The ECU sees only part throttle and only feeds a certain amount of fuel, but the boost/air flow is near the max setting, thus leading to high EGT's and a dangerous lean condition. EBC's can take care of this issue.

[KrautFed20V]

Originally Posted by the mike

My biggest problem with MBC's are the PTFB(part throttle full boost) issues. Essentially the MBC allows full boost at part throttle. The ECU sees only part throttle and only feeds a certain amount of fuel, but the boost/air flow is near the max setting, thus leading to high EGT's and a dangerous lean condition. EBC's can take care of this issue.

this can be true, but in MAF cars it's not as much of a concern because the ECU already sees the amount of air entering the system and adjusts accordingly, the problem with many vw's that run MBC's all the time is the spike due to PTFB will send the car into limp mode (4psi max) that's why i only use it during racing (where WOT is 95% of the time)