Signatus asks TST, (update 3-3-08)

[Signatus230]

Alright mates, I'll explain the background a bit so you understand the whole story better.

Cliff notes: My only car had a bad engine when I bought it, so I decided to swap it, and 6 months later found out the ECU is bad. (see questions at end of post)


February of '07: I bought my car (1999 Subaru Impreza RS) for quite cheap. It had a small number of scrapes along the drivers side door / rear quarter panel and one large dent. I managed to scrub (not scrape) alot of the paint off of it (from the other car, not my paint, lol) and it looks ALOT better. I even managed to bang out the dent somewhat so its not as noticeable. Anyway, when I bought it, the previous owners told me the car burned a 1/2 quart every 1000 miles. Right.

Fast forward 3 months to April '07: The engine burned about a liter every 250 miles. Yes, I said it, 250 miles. Needless to say, I was shocked, and pissed. Not as pissed since I had intended on swapping the car anyway. Then, one brilliant day, I decided to put in Seafoam (the stuff that cleans the carbon build up in your engine on the various moving parts). Well, the engine actually liked it, and it ran better for about 2 days, then it happened. I had horrible rod knock.

Badass Rodknock

So that was it, I said screw it, and started to look for an engine. Mistake number one: I found a sweet deal for one in Mass, talked to the guy and then picked it up in Conn.(he went down halfway, I went up halfway) I thought great! The day we came back, was the day I started to tear the car apart. We didn't get real far, but the by the end of the next day, the engine was out.

Fast forward to August '07: Engine was in, drivetrain stuff, etc etc. Now for mistake number two: I tried to start the car, no go. Then I tried it again, and my dad said; "Umm Ian, your starter just sparked and is now glowing" Turns out, due to the fact when I had some friends over to help, I didn't get the opportunity to see which wires went where for the starter and basically switched ground and power I think. So the starter was blown. I had a bad feeling after that.

A month later, September '07; I said **** it, and decided to give Ryan a call. We finally got a good date set, and I had the car towed up there (goddamed no name street!!!) in the middle of October, so he could get it running.

Fast forward again to Decemeber '07: We both determined (Ryan and I) that the harness I merged, was really already merged for a 96L. It basically went like this:

96L + JDM = the harness I got with the engine.
I tried to put JDM + RS harness to run in my car.
What I really did was JDM/L + RS harness = no worky.

So I decided to send the harness' up to a buisness in Mass (ironically the SAME one the guy worked at from whom I bought the engine) and they had it for about a month, and recently sent it down (couple of weeks ago). So Ryan tried to get this working, and low and behold, the same problem arises: The fuel pump does NOT FREAKEN PRIME. In order for it to come on, you have to manually (to keep it simple) apply power to it. Ryan did that, and wow! The car ran, but you need to start the car right away else it will never stop priming and thus the car could go boom. So, I told ECS (the buisness which fixed and merged the harness') and they said it could be one of two problems:

My Ecu is B A D
I have an immobilizer ECU - which, by the way, I have no idea what that means.

So, after all my rambling here is the question - what should I do? I have several options:

- Scrap the engine basically, buy another engine set (USDM, screw JDM) and re-do this whole process

- Buy an aftermarket ECU (If my car was running 100%, I had planned on doing that anyway) specifically an Apexi PowerFC for the EJ20k. They range from like 850 non-commander to 1100 with commander.

- Look for another EJ20k stock ECU (would be quite hard to find, and personally I don't trust many sellers anymore)

- Sell the car as a project car (NOT a parts car, that takes way to damn long)

I am leaning towards two options at this time: Take a chance, buy an apexi and put it in. If the car still doesn't work, then its something with the wiring or the Fuel pump. The other option is just scrapping this, buying another car, and essentially re-do this whole process in a year after I have the damn money. (remember, I am a college student, I have not had a car for... 9 months now, and its getting pretty old. I only take a couple of night classes at montco, but come next semester, I will be taking another couple of classes).

So what do you think?

Update 3-3-08: Well, I bought a PFC from a local shop, had it shipped from Cali, got to area1320 in like 5 days or so. So Ryan put the PFC in today, after doing the crap you need to do to get the car to idle right, it actually runs! There is alot of stumbling around 3k, Ryan is pretty sure that it is getting too much fuel.

However, I still do NOT have an 02 sensor hooked up for the car, because I don't have the correct 02 sensor. I will get pictures up as soon as possible.

The 02 sensor plug is just like this:

00
00

4 pins basically, with three wires coming out and going to the ECU.

Now this is a long shot, since most of the real JDM techys are on RS25 for my engine, but... I'll ask anyway. Is the EJ20k, Version 3, 02 sensor a 4 plug, 3 wire 02 sensor?

Here is pretty much the only place that I could find that has those 02 sensor (special order, I'm sure)

http://www.rallispec.com/new%20catalog_gc8JDM.pdf

[gary]

As I have heard and repeated many times, get the car running stock before you go and try to modify what should already work. Your car is very nice and you will be extreamly happy once this "nightmare" is over.

If the ECU is an immobilizer ECU, don't you need the keys to go with it? When your keys were on the desk at the shop, I thought I seen regular keys? Doesn't a immobilizer EDU read a chip in the key and tell the ECU ok yea prime the pump and start the car? I don't really know much about Subarus, just enough to get by without feeling dumb at the shop.

[Signatus230]

Well, the car runs stock! Ask ryan! Lol. Hmm @ immobilizer ECU, I forgot that it means that... Did they have ECU's like that back in 1996?

Thanks for the input. Positive encouragment is essentially what I need now, lol. I really don't want to sell it, but if I have to... a car is just a car after all.

[gary]

Ohh I know I heard it last night. It runs as smooth or better than any other subie I have seen. Just that stupid priming you have to figure out. Your so close man. If I had your asking price and you had the interior put in, I would have trouble not buying it. So so nice.

[ScubaSteve]

Originally Posted by Signatus230

Well, the car runs stock! Ask ryan! Lol. Hmm @ immobilizer ECU, I forgot that it means that... Did they have ECU's like that back in 1996?

Thanks for the input. Positive encouragment is essentially what I need now, lol. I really don't want to sell it, but if I have to... a car is just a car after all.

Anna Maria's old Jeep was a 97 and it had the chip in the key deal. (trying to start it with a copied key while on senior week= bad news for me)

[Renegade_]

How do the 96 wrxs have an immobilizer? Even the US '04 STis dont have it....

[Signatus230]

Originally Posted by Renegade_

How do the 96 wrxs have an immobilizer? Even the US '04 STis dont have it....

Yea, thats what I was thinking. Its possible, but I can't really see that happening. Oh well, another grand will probably be gone in a few weeks. *rolls eyes*

[Vince@R/TTuning]

Sorry to hear about all the problems you have had...We could give ya a really good deal on a power fc if you would like and try and help ya out

You should be able to trace the harness and find out why the fuel pump isnt coming on...

OR if you dont wanna go through the trouble you can just run your own wiring to the fuel pump with relay and hook the signal wire to 12v ignition...which would mean everytime you turn the key on the fuel pump would start running, which isnt the greatest thing to do, but lots of supra guys do it when they bypass the fuel pump module that they have good success with it and also most race cars are wired that way but would take care of your fuel pump issue

Im sure Ryan can get ya all taken care of but if ya need any wiring schematic or wanna get that power fc let me know

[Signatus230]

Thanks. I definatly am thinking about the FC. I want to see what ECS says first.

[RyanG]

Ian, I really feel for ya buddy. i dont really think at all that this ecu has an immobilizer. iirc no wrx from that era had that feature but I could be wrong. I really think it was just a missed wire. I WILL find it and make it right. I wont sleep untill then dude :P. I have been going over this situation with a few people and we all think its something silly we arent seeing... I still have a few more tricks up my sleeve buddy!!

[Ender81]

If Ryan says it will be fixed then sit back and don't sweat it. When you are that close you almost have to.

[Signatus230]

I always had confidence in Ryan, never doubted him. I mean really, he has had to put up with me and my car for what... 4 months now? Lol. I should start coming up the the Thursday night meets just to chill.

Edit: These are the two PM's I recieved from ECS:


First message

Hey Ian, We have been in contact with Ryan, and have been discussing this with him now for about a week or so. Best we can determine via our conversation, you may have 1 of 2 things going on there. You could have A. a bad ecu or B. an immobilizer ecu which is stopping the fp from priming. All ej20k motor sets did not require the use of a diode, only the ej20G did. Either way, you paid us for the service and that service comes with a no questions asked 6 month guarantee, that means that if you feel the need to send it back to have us peak it over and determine that for sure there is no flaw in the wiring and rule that out, then by all means please do so Let me know

-Paul

Second Message

An immobilizer ecu is simple actually. Subaru of Japan integrated the immobilizer system into the STi in the v3/v4 change over, some got it some didn't, what it is, is the ability for the ECU to need to sync with a chipped key, if it does not see the key, it will not start the car via, disabling the fp relay. Also, if an ECU is simply bad, it will not turn on either the main relay or fp relay. A PFC, would indeed fix the problem of having a bad ecu, however, i do not know if Ryan or any of the guys at 1320 are versed with tuning the PFC, if not, we are, and would be more than happy to the car for you if you chose to go w/ a PFC.
-Paul

[Ender81]

Sounds like either way it will work out for you.

[Honest_Bob]

I wouldnt worry to much about it. Your car is at the best suby shop in the area.

[Signatus230]

Originally Posted by Honest_Bob

I wouldnt worry to much about it. Your car is the best suby at the best suby shop in the area.

Fixed.


Lol. I will be going up tonight. Gonna crack that suckers case, see if there is anything obvious, if not then I'll just order a PFC. Damn things are so expensive, lol.

[ScubaSteve]

Well there goes the whole keeping the new motor stock for awhile thing lol. THough technically you kept it stock for a couple months.

[Renegade_]

Originally Posted by ScubaSteve

Well there goes the whole keeping the new motor stock for awhile thing lol. THough technically you kept it stock for a couple months.

This resolution was in place? when did this happen?

[Signatus230]

Alrighty, so we decided to just run a switch to basically manually turn the Fuel pump on and off for the time being. When I get a PFC, we will see what happens.

The other smaller issues with the car were:

Bad radiator - leaked a ****load. Ryan got another one last night.
Power steering pump is... wacked. It basically feeds the fluid into the return line, Its not like you can switch the P/S lines, lol.
No 02 sensor in the uppipe. I guess there is only a rear 02 Sensor in the Downpipe used for these engines? Also, the wiring harness has the 4 plug - 3 wire sensor merged into it, so what 02 sensor could I use?

Then I need to read to the codes, yay blinking lights.

[Signatus230]

Bump - another, more promising update this time. See post #1.