Well, there goes modding my car significantly.

[ozthunder]

Some of you may know, some may not, that i've had to battle with a few decisions recently. One of which is whether or not to take a break after my senior year (this year, as long as Temple doesn't rape my grad check in a week), and if I want to pursue Law. I had a bit to think about it...I didn't think I was going to grad until next jan, so I had a decent amount of time to kind of skirt the topic. Well I found out a couple days ago that I can move my grad date, take classes in the winter, and get out scot free in May. Kinda cool...but scary. Going to college in itself was scary...going to the real world? Holy ****! So I sat down with my peeps over the past week or so and have decided that I need to go to Law school.

Pros and cons of this decision are...

Pros- $$ out of school, doing what I want to do.

Cons- no $$ until i'm out, massive loans, 3 years of hell (first year is the hardest).

So to cheer me up, i've been looking around on autotrader for a car after I get out. Merely one of those "fantastical" ideas I have that i'm gonna ball out when I can, while I can, for the better good of my sanity.

But I tell you what, that doesn't mask the fact that this nonsense..this whole "get educated for your life" nonsense is beyond stressful.

- over and out. also explains my lack of posting the past week or so.

[importpower99]

I was going to go to temple to finish my degree(masters), but I had enough. I got tired of working two jobs and having little time for myself. Good luck to you though, it pays off in the end.

[ozthunder]

I hope to God it does..b/c if it doesn't, well, im gonna be all cracked up.

[importpower99]

Were you looking to work for the government (DA, public defender, etc) or go into a private firm?

[CHAOS]

the real world is a bitch, keep your head up, get educated, and dont look back....

[NJGOAT]

You don't need to get an advanced degree to be succesful in life. My best advice to you is to really take time and make sure that a law degree is what you really want. There are only so many fields (mainly a lawyer) where a law degree can ever begin to help you earn enough money to pay back the investment you are making.

[importpower99]

You don't need to get an advanced degree to be succesful in life.

Its not all about being succesful in life, it's about the abilty to set goals and achive them.

There are only so many fields (mainly a lawyer) where a law degree can ever begin to help you earn enough money to pay back the investment you are making.

Any college degree will enable you to pay off student loans. Thats why they say it will pay off in the long run to graduate college, not the short run.

[zerioustt]

Originally Posted by importpower99

Its not all about being succesful in life, it's about the abilty to set goals and achive them.

That's one in the same...

If you set goals in life and succeed..that's being succesful.

Its completely up to you, is it really what you want to do?

[NJGOAT]

Originally Posted by importpower99

Its not all about being succesful in life, it's about the abilty to set goals and achive them.

Any college degree will enable you to pay off student loans. Thats why they say it will pay off in the long run to graduate college, not the short run.

Setting goals and achieving them is important to success and in life in general. My argument was not that this wasn't the case, or that he shouldn't set a goal and achieve it. My argument was based on the belief that a lot of people have that earning some form of advanced degree is what is needed to get ahead in a career. In some careers it is (lawyers, teachers, scientists), in other's it isn't.

Your statement that any college degree will enable you to pay off student loans is ABSOLUTELY FALSE. We are currently living in a time where the following scenario is true:

**
Two people who just graduated high school have 100k dollars. Person A takes that money and invests it in Treasury Bonds. Person B spends it on a 4 year degree and earns his bachelors. Based on the average earnings of a person with a high school diploma versus a bachelor's degree, person A will reach retirement age and have more money than person B.

If we change the scenario, so that they do not begin with the money in hand, but rather person B needs 100k in student loans that must be repaid with interest, person A and B will break even by retirement age.
**

What that scenario shows is that the average cost of "higher" education has outpaced the added earnings potential of the people. To further illustrate my point, let's use my friend Allison that I graduated college with:

Allison wanted to be a social worker. Allison attended Boston College with me and she wracked up about 110k in student loans. She then went on to Fordham University and in two years earned her Masters degree at a cost of 50k in student loans. Allison is now 160k in debt. She earned a top paying job in the field of Social Work pulling down a whopping 34k per year salary out of school. HER STUDENT LOAN PAYMENTS ARE 75% OF HER TAKE HOME SALARY.

While that is an extreme example it is the perfect way to illustrate why so many college graduates are suffering financially and having their credit destroyed by debt that they can't repay. If the OP doesn't want to be a lawyer, than he shouldn't go to law school just for S&G's because he will NEVER earn enough money at a "regular" job to make up the difference in what he paid out.

[ozthunder]

Well here's a bit of knowledge before saying I won't be able to afford, etc etc..

I have no loans, no financial ties right now past my car. That's it. My education has been free..scholarships, grants, and private savings = no debt. I will only have the debt from law school.

My grades and my LSAT score (hopefully lol) should be able to put me into a top second tier school/low first tier school...right now the trend is 90+ for starting, with 125 not being uncommon. I have connections due to personal history that I don't need to publicly discuss, so to worry about a job...not really?

As per the college + job thing. It's been shown that in many fields you need more than UG to really hit a "good" pay scale. My majors are an indication of that..were I not doing law, I would need grad school and a doctorate to become a professor or any sort of serious researcher. That's just the trend...20-30 years ago a HS degree would be the mainstream...and the the baby boomers turned that upside down, and now we see the scale shifting. Does that mean you can't make bank without a college degree? No, there will always be people that buck the trend. Always. But consistently, a degree higher than UG is needed.

And yes, I want to be a lawyer. I'm just down about altering my current lifestyle in order to meet that.

And btw, social work rarely "pays". But then again..one who went to school for that prolly did it to fulfill their personal desires. All the power to that!

[05Accent]

whoot dylon.

[cmr076]

Originally Posted by NJGOAT

You don't need to get an advanced degree to be succesful in life. My best advice to you is to really take time and make sure that a law degree is what you really want. There are only so many fields (mainly a lawyer) where a law degree can ever begin to help you earn enough money to pay back the investment you are making.

i completely disagree with that. Having a law degree can help in almost every aspect of life, weather it be getting a better job, or being able to negotiate a better salary in a non legal based job. i am currently studying for the Lsats as we speak, and although there going to be difficult, they are far from impossible. a few friends just took them and with minimal studying got between 155 and 160s. also the potential earnings as a lawyer, compared to the amount of schooling is just incredible. both my parents are lawyers (grads from temple law) and you wouldnt believe what the starting lawyer, with NO experience other than law school makes at my dads firm...

[Scapegoat]

there are many careers out there for someone with a law degree. Its all a matter of how you decide to apply that knowledge and in what area you specialized in.

FYI: My step-dad was a lawyer, now a writer , and I currently make more than he did as a lawyer I'm also making that money at the same age he was still in law school. I don't have a degree

[ozthunder]

lol..doesn't shock me. The law varies..I want to get into medical law. I've worked in a hospital ~7 years, so i've been kinda rooted in that atmosphere.

[importpower99]

Setting goals and achieving them is important to success and in life in general. My argument was not that this wasn't the case, or that he shouldn't set a goal and achieve it. My argument was based on the belief that a lot of people have that earning some form of advanced degree is what is needed to get ahead in a career. In some careers it is (lawyers, teachers, scientists), in other's it isn't.

Your statement that any college degree will enable you to pay off student loans is ABSOLUTELY FALSE. We are currently living in a time where the following scenario is true:

**
Two people who just graduated high school have 100k dollars. Person A takes that money and invests it in Treasury Bonds. Person B spends it on a 4 year degree and earns his bachelors. Based on the average earnings of a person with a high school diploma versus a bachelor's degree, person A will reach retirement age and have more money than person B.

If we change the scenario, so that they do not begin with the money in hand, but rather person B needs 100k in student loans that must be repaid with interest, person A and B will break even by retirement age.
**

What that scenario shows is that the average cost of "higher" education has outpaced the added earnings potential of the people. To further illustrate my point, let's use my friend Allison that I graduated college with:

Allison wanted to be a social worker. Allison attended Boston College with me and she wracked up about 110k in student loans. She then went on to Fordham University and in two years earned her Masters degree at a cost of 50k in student loans. Allison is now 160k in debt. She earned a top paying job in the field of Social Work pulling down a whopping 34k per year salary out of school. HER STUDENT LOAN PAYMENTS ARE 75% OF HER TAKE HOME SALARY.

While that is an extreme example it is the perfect way to illustrate why so many college graduates are suffering financially and having their credit destroyed by debt that they can't repay. If the OP doesn't want to be a lawyer, than he shouldn't go to law school just for S&G's because he will NEVER earn enough money at a "regular" job to make up the difference in what he paid out.
__________________
2004 Pontiac GTO (12.773 @ 109.72, 1.945 60') - His
2003 Chevrolet Avalanche Z71 - Hers

WTF?????
First who has 100k after graduating High School????? IF you have that much money you could invest and not worry about college. So your scenario makes no sense. As for you friend allison, I feel sorry for her she is one of the few people who are usually good hearted and want to help people. Social work is not the way to go, its the only job that requires a masters and you still make less then 30k a year. I meant to say that before but i didn't. And not all people go to expensive colleges, thats why i went to a junior college first. So my total debt is less then 30k, and i got a job that allows me to pay off my loans and still have money to save and to piss away(by pissing away I mean my car).

Your statement that any college degree will enable you to pay off student loans is ABSOLUTELY FALSE

Prove it! (besides social work, I knew about that in college)
[QUOTE][While that is an extreme example it is the perfect way to illustrate why so many college graduates are suffering financially and having their credit destroyed by debt that they can't repay. /QUOTE]
Who can't! The repayment amounts are minimal, and you have a lot of options when it comes to repaying them, so....what exactly are you talkin about?

If the OP doesn't want to be a lawyer, than he shouldn't go to law school just for S&G's because he will NEVER earn enough money at a "regular" job to make up the difference in what he paid out.

What do you mean regular job?

My argument was based on the belief that a lot of people have that earning some form of advanced degree is what is needed to get ahead in a career. In some careers it is (lawyers, teachers, scientists), in other's it isn't.

Again, what are you talkin about? Most jobs look for a 4 year degree, it doesn't matter what degree it is or where it's from, thay just want to see a level of commitment. Lawyers can't get ahead from obtaining a masters degree, you need one to become one. (Ex. Uline, Enterprise, Hertz, Target, etc.)

[cmr076]

med. malpractice FTW!

[ozthunder]

Originally Posted by cmr076

med. malpractice FTW!

Yea..and even the other side. I just think especially in PA, our system is so screwed up. There's a lot to be desired...I also know a lady who has a partnership that deals with this stuff, so I'm interning there in the Spring.

Yea..if I somehow didn't get into law school, I would just get a masters and then a doctorate. But I don't see myself wanting to "waste" 4 years by not going the whole process...the system just now dictates that you need to go above and beyond.

[Scapegoat]

my step-dad originally worked for a firm in philly that mainly did mal-practice suits. He interviewed at a couple of hospitals b/c he's seen a number of erroneous suits against doctors and was thinking about switching sides.

But he quit all that to become a writer, wrote a jewish cowboy novel that is getting good reviews... but little sales :-/

[NJGOAT]

If you go back and read your pro's and con's list, you have some of the same things I listed as being con's. I didn't catch that you REALLY wanted to be a lawyer, it was presented more as a, "I think I may go to law school, but I'm not sure thing" If you really want to be a lawyer, then all the power to you and good luck at law school. If that is the case, then don't take a break and keep on going, or you will risk getting apathetic and used to working and having money.

I went to a great school (Boston College), majored in Political Science and was lucky enough to have most of it paid for by a sports scholarship. My grades were great and I came to a cross roads: get a law degree or go into lobbying/campaign management. I took some time to think about it and decided that I would rather be in transportation as that is what I found I loved.

I guess my whole point is, if you want to be a lawyer, go for it and attend the best school you can find. The only caveat of that is if you don't really want that, you will be wasting a lot of time and money.

As for the argument over who makes more, having or not having a degree has really become a non-issue in the majority of the work force. I have people with masters degrees that work as admin's for me and I have great managers that probably barely made it out of high school. Any intelligent person looking to hire people will put a much greater weight on experience and accoplishment in the workforce than on a college degree. There are limited fields (scientist, professor, lawyer, etc.) that require the degree as a right of passage, but for the vast majority of jobs out there, don't think your degree will open every door for you, or earn you more money just because you have it. Take that advice from someone who probably attended a "better" college than just about anyone on this board and holds an executive position with a lot of people working for me.

[cmr076]

Originally Posted by onebadgoat9286

Yea..and even the other side. I just think especially in PA, our system is so screwed up. There's a lot to be desired...I also know a lady who has a partnership that deals with this stuff, so I'm interning there in the Spring.

Yea..if I somehow didn't get into law school, I would just get a masters and then a doctorate. But I don't see myself wanting to "waste" 4 years by not going the whole process...the system just now dictates that you need to go above and beyond.

haha you could always go to weidner i hear they accept AANNNYYYONEEE.

sorry if anyone on here is at weidner law.