2011 Car & Driver Lightning Lap

[Chris B.]

Every year for the past six years, Car & Driver rents out Virginia International Raceway and has highly skilled/experienced drivers, some of them who race professionally or have raced professionally, take production street cars around the track's 4.2 mile Grand East course to see how fast they are. Funny how VIR calls the same course the Grand West Course They use advanced data acquisition systems that record data every 0.1 seconds for the entire lap for multiple laps. Then they publish the results. This year they added a truck category called LLT.



Its really worth picking up the issue to read the descriptions of each car or truck and the experience of driving them on the track. For example, the Charger SRT8 was described as the dancing hippo from Fantasia. The Boss 302 LS had the same corner and sector speeds as the Corvette Grand Sport, but weighs more, so its lap times were a little slower. They asked the question, is the Audi TT the ulitmate version of the VW Golf?

Here are the results from the latest issue:
LLT
BMW X5 M 3:11.1
Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8 3:17.4

LL1
Honda Civic Si Coupe 3:24.1
Volkswagen Jetta GLI 3:27.3

LL2
Audi TT RS 3:4.8
BMW 1 Series M 3:6.6
BMW 335is 3:13.8
Dodge Challenger SRT-8 3:9.4
Dodge Charger SRT8 3:10.1
Ford Boss 302 Laguna Seca 3:2.8
Mini Cooper JCW Coupe 3:18.4
Volkswagen Golf R 3:14.0

LL3
BMW Z4 sDrive35is 3:10.4
Chevy Corvette ZR1 2:50.7 Other year was 2:49.8 on different tires
Lotus Evora S 3:5.9
Mercedes Benz C63 AMG Coupe 3:6.3
Mercedes Benz CLS63 AMG 3:4.9
Nissan GT-R 2:53.2
Porsche Cayman R 3:3.9

LL4
Porsche Panamera Turbo S 3:0.7

The 1 Series M costs about the same as a BOSS 302 LS, well more is you include the as tested price, and the question has been asked int he past, which is faster on a road course. This issue answered that. The BOSS 302 was faster by 3.8 seconds. The 1 series M is also a little over 1 second slower than the M3 around the same track.

Lightning Lap Overall Results:*

Make Model Min: Sec
Mosler MT900S 2 : 45.9
Dodge Viper SRT 10 ACR 2 : 48.6
Mosler Photon 2 : 49.8
Chevy Corvette ZR1 2 : 49.8
Lamborghini Gallardo LP570-4 Superleggera 2 : 51.8
KTM X-Bow 2 : 52.3
Nissan GT-R 2 : 53.2
Chevrolet Corvette Z06 2 : 53.5
Lamborghini Murcielago LP670-4 SV 2 : 53.9
Ferrari F430 Scuderia 2 : 54.6
Nissan GT-R 2 : 55.6
Porsche 911 GT3 RS 2 : 55.9
Porsche 911 Turbo S 2 : 57.5
Ariel Atom 2 : 57.6
Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG 2 : 58.0
Chevy Corvette Z06 2 : 58.2
Chevy Corvette Grand Sport 2 : 58.8
Audi R8 5.2 FSI 2 : 59.5
Ford GT 3 : 0.7
Porsche Panamera Turbo S 3 : 0.7
Chevy Corvette Z06 3 : 1.1
Chevy Corvette Z51 3 : 1.2
Dodge Viper SRT 10 3 : 1.6
Porsche 911 GT3 3 : 1.8
Ford Boss 302 Laguna Seca 3 : 2.8
Chevy Corvette Z51 3 : 3.6
Porsche Boxster Spyder 3 : 3.8
Porsche Cayman R 3 : 3.9
Cadillac CTS-V 3 : 4.0
Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 3 : 4.0
Cadillac CTS-V Coupe 3 : 4.2
Lotus Exige S 3 : 4.5
Audi R8 3 : 4.6
Audi TT RS 3 : 4.8
Mercedes Benz CLS63 AMG 3 : 4.9
Lotus Exige S 260 Sport 3 : 5.0
BMW M3 3 : 5.4
Lexus IS-F 3 : 5.4
BMW M3 3 : 5.6
Porsche Cayman S 3 : 5.8
Porsche 911 Carrera S 3 : 5.8
Porsche 911 Turbo 3 : 5.8
Ford Shelby GT500 3 : 5.9
Lotus Evora S 3 : 5.9
Mercedes Benz C63 AMG Coupe 3 : 6.3
Jaguar XKR 3 : 6.4
Mercedes C63 AMG 3 : 6.5
BMW 1 Series M 3 : 6.6
Mercedes Benz E63 AMG 3 : 6.9
Ford Shelby GT500 3 : 7.4
Lotus Evora S 3 : 8.3
Audi TTS 3 : 8.4
Ford Mustang GT 5.0 3 : 8.6
Jaguar XFR 3 : 8.9
Lotus Elise 3 : 9.2
Chevy Corvette 3 : 9.3
Dodge Challenger SRT-8 3 : 9.4
Porsche Cayman S 3 : 9.5
Chevy Camaro SS 3 : 9.5
BMW M6 3 : 10.0
Dodge Charger SRT8 3 : 10.1
BMW Z4 sDrive35is 3 : 10.4
BMW 335i Coupe 3 : 10.5
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo SE 3 : 10.6
Audi S4 3 : 10.8
Ford Shelby GT500 3 : 11.0
BMW X5 M 3 : 11.1
Audi RS4 3 : 11.2
BMW Z4 M Coupe 3 : 11.7
Nissan NIZMO 370Z 3 : 12.0
Nissan 350Z Track 3 : 12.5
Ford Mustang V6 3 : 12.5
Chevy Colbat SS 3 : 13.0
Ford Mustang GT 3 : 13.3
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo MR 3 : 13.3
Mitsubishi EVO MR 3 : 13.5
BMW 135i 3 : 13.7
Hyundai Genesis Coupe R Spec 3.8 3 : 13.8
BMW 335is 3 : 13.8
Subaru Impreza WRX STI 3 : 13.8
Lexus IS F 3 : 14.0
Volkswagen Golf R 3 : 14.0
Audi S5 3 : 14.6
Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 3 : 14.8
Honda S2000 CR 3 : 15.0
Pontiac Solstace GXP 3 : 15.5
Mazda Mazdaspeed3 3 : 16.0
Mazda Mazdaspeed3 3 : 16.2
Dodge Challenger SRT-8 3 : 16.3
Subaru Impreza WRX 3 : 16.5
Subaru WRX 3 : 16.6
Lotus Elise SC 3 : 16.6
Mazda RX-8 R3 3 : 16.7
Mini JCW 3 : 17.1
Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8 3 : 17.4
Infiniti G37 Sport 3 : 17.5
Dodge Charger SRT8 3 : 18.2
Mini Cooper JCW Coupe 3 : 18.4
Mazda RX-8 3 : 19.0
Subaru WRX STI 3 : 19.0
Volkswagen GTI 3 : 19.3
Chevy Cobalt SS 3 : 20.6
Dodge Caliber SRT-4 3 : 20.8
Ford Mustang GT 3 : 20.9
Volkswagen R32 3 : 21.8
Mini Cooper S 3 : 22.9
Honda Civic Si 3 : 24.1
Honda Civic Mugen Si 3 : 24.8
Volkswagen GTI 3 : 25.1
Honda Civic Si 3 : 26.5
Volvo C30 T5 2.0 3 : 26.6
Volkswagen Jetta GLI 3 : 27.3
Mazda MX-5 3 : 29.3

*There may be a couple typos in there, but I copied and pasted these from C&D's web page and other threads about the current and past issues.

Hopefully this won't end up in a which of these cars tested for their performance on a race track is a daily driver in 3 feet of unplowed snow with 2 inches of solid black ice under the snow while driving up a mountain in the Rockies thread like last year's thread about this issue did.

Last Year's Lightning Lap Thread

[O2SpecV]

hmm i would love to pick up an issue of this, but i would rather want to see video!

[Ender81]

I would rather have the 1 series M. I don't care about the laptime I just dig that car. Nothing against the M3 or the Boss.

[mcperson2k]

The TT is pretty impressive... Obviously not as slow as people make them out to be.

[Chris B.]

Originally Posted by mcperson2k

The TT is pretty impressive... Obviously not as slow as people make them out to be.

The TT RS that was tested has quite a few upgrades over the regular model. 360 HP instead of 211 HP, 343 ft-lbs of torque instead of 258 ft-lbs of torque to start. It also has wider wheels and tires with performance tires, adjustable magnetic ride suspension, different brakes and exhaust, etc... Its not the same TT as the regular models.

[Chris B.]

Originally Posted by Ender81

I would rather have the 1 series M. I don't care about the laptime I just dig that car. Nothing against the M3 or the Boss.

Being a smaller car, the 1 series M probably feels more like an E36/46 than the current M3 does.

[Chris B.]

Originally Posted by O2SpecV

hmm i would love to pick up an issue of this, but i would rather want to see video!

They will probably have videos available within a week or two. By this time last year various cars' lap videos were available.

[JB'sLGT]

The 302 Laguna Seca comes with R-Comps from the factory. A better comparison would've been the "regular" Boss.

[nuTinmuch]

I'm a little surprised at how close the Golf R is to the STI.

Also disappointed to see that they didn't retest the 370 now that its breaking/engine cooling issues have been fixed.

[Chris B.]

Originally Posted by JB'sLGT

The 302 Laguna Seca comes with R-Comps from the factory. A better comparison would've been the "regular" Boss.

Several of the other cars they have tested int he past also come with R compound tires form the factory including at least one of the Corvettes. Its a test of production cars with factory options. The tires on the 302 LS are DOT legal and a factory option. I haven't heard of anyone objection to the Pilot Sport Cup tires on some of the 911's and Corvettes in the past tests.

[nuTinmuch]

Originally Posted by Chris B.

Several of the other cars they have tested int he past also come with R compound tires form the factory including at least one of the Corvettes. Its a test of production cars with factory options. The tires on the 302 LS are DOT legal and a factory option. I haven't heard of anyone objection to the Pilot Sport Cup tires on some of the 911's and Corvettes in the past tests.

Yeah, I never understood this complaint. Tires might me easy to switch out, but they're still factory equipment.

It isn't a test of potential, it's a test of what you can buy and take to the track today.

[Chris B.]

Originally Posted by nuTinmuch

I'm a little surprised at how close the Golf R is to the STI.

Also disappointed to see that they didn't retest the 370 now that its breaking/engine cooling issues have been fixed.

They did get a few laps out of the car before the brakes failed suddenly and posted a time. Maybe Nissan didn't want to resubmit a car?

I was disappointed that Ferrari didn't make a 458 Italia available in time for the test.

[Chris B.]

When talking with Ender81 tonight, he mentioned how the 1 Series M beat the old iron block Shelby GT500's lap times.

That brings up a good point, no matter how much power you have, a nose heavy car that doesn't transition well requires a lot of power to put down a good lap time. The 2011 aluminum block version of the GT500 is about 3.5 seconds faster per lap than the 2010 iron block version of the same car. Weight and weight placement make a big difference in handling.

[sean3]

Originally Posted by Chris B.

Several of the other cars they have tested int he past also come with R compound tires form the factory including at least one of the Corvettes. Its a test of production cars with factory options. The tires on the 302 LS are DOT legal and a factory option. I haven't heard of anyone objection to the Pilot Sport Cup tires on some of the 911's and Corvettes in the past tests.

It's a Mustang though. I initially read it and thought "WOW THE MUSTANG DESTROYS EVERYTHING ELSE AROUND ITS PRICE RANGE", then remembered the LS edition comes with different tires. I understand what they did, but I think it's stupid. These kinds of comparisons REALLY need to be run on identical tire compounds... but that's not reasonable to ask for.

The 1 series M and Boss 302 are around the same price. If you glanced at this test you'd think the Boss 302 is worlds faster when in reality it's only slightly faster with a large tire advantage.

[JB'sLGT]

Originally Posted by Chris B.

Several of the other cars they have tested int he past also come with R compound tires form the factory including at least one of the Corvettes. Its a test of production cars with factory options. The tires on the 302 LS are DOT legal and a factory option. I haven't heard of anyone objection to the Pilot Sport Cup tires on some of the 911's and Corvettes in the past tests.

I get that, but I'm not talking about Corvette ZR1s and Porsche GT3s. They're both comparably tired and in the same class.

I could put the same tires on the M1 and it would've been right there with the times of the Boss LS. The tire wear rating for the Boss LS's Pirellis are 60 and the M1's Michelins are 220. Factory option or not, it's pretty easy to see someone is playing with a stacked deck.

[Chris B.]

The other cars in the test that come with R comps come with better R comps. The Pirellis on the 302 LS aren't as good as the Pilot Sports on the other cars. Pirelli makes another R comp that is more on the levle of the Pilot Sport, but Ford didn't offer it for one reason or another. Maybe because they wanted a tire that wouldn't make the car undriveable in the rain like many Pilot Sport Cup equipped cars are. They are better than the performance street tires most of the other cars come with. Some of the cars in the comparison only come from the factory with performance all season tires. Sure it would be nice to fine one performance tire that is available in the stock size of every car that Car 7 Driver might ever test on a road course, but like you said that's not practical. Its a test of what the manufacturer offers and is available for consumers to buy.

Maybe comparisons like this will encourage more manufactures to offer better performing vehicles. Just look at how much has changed since the first Lightning Lap comparison 6 years ago.

Also the 1 Series M has the boost controlled by the computer so that it develops peak torque at low RPM and keeps the flat torque curve until high RPM. It has 370 lb-ft of torque at 1500-1700 RPM. The Boss 302 LS doesn't develop that much torque until very high in the RPM range. Due to the 1 Series M's broad torque curve, the drivers needed to shift less in some parts of the track and that shaved time off their laps according to the article. The sections where it didn't have to downshift is where it was faster than the 302 LS and other cars that ran faster lap times. Each car has advantages and disadvantages.

[Chris B.]

Originally Posted by JB'sLGT

I get that, but I'm not talking about Corvette ZR1s and Porsche GT3s. They're both comparably tired and in the same class.

I could put the same tires on the M1 and it would've been right there with the times of the Boss LS. The tire wear rating for the Boss LS's Pirellis are 60 and the M1's Michelins are 220. Factory option or not, it's pretty easy to see someone is playing with a stacked deck.

BMW has offered the Pilot Sport Cup on some models of the M3 as a factory option in the past. Its even mentioned in the little owners manual that comes with the Pilot Sport Cup tires. I'm sure BMW could have offered lower treadwear rated performance tires with the 1 Series M if they wanted to, but the simple fact is they didn't. Its how the car is available from the factory.

The Pilot Sport PS2's on the 1 Series M are rather soft for 220 treadwear tires that do very well in autoX and track use for street tires, so its not like the car comes with hard all season tires.

Also you can't compare treadwear ratings of tires of different brands to each other to compare their grip. The Pilot Sport Cups and the Pirellis on the Boss 302 LS have the same treadwear rating, but anyone that has used both would say the Pilot Sport Cups have more grip and are a better overall dry track tire. Sure the 302 LS had grippier tires the other cars in the test, but it didn't have an as advanced stability control program as other cars in the test. Should we nitpick every detail of the two cars? The Boss 302 LS didn't have a computer controlled rear diff that can act as a locked diff to gain more traction out of the corners. I don't think any non BMW product in its price range in the comparison had that. Should we have to add that to each car in the 1 Series M's price range to even out the fairness of the test? Should we have to change the stability control progras of each car so they are more evenly matched? Is BMW playing with a stacked deck because they have a computer controlled rear diff while the Boss 302 LS has a diff who's basic design goes back 40+ years? What about "free" mods that you can do to some cars to increase their performance? If we nitpick tires, differentials, stability control, then should we nitpick details such as why didn't they do the "free" power mods that you can do in some of the cars tested?

What if we did change the tires and the stability control program of some of the cars didn't act properly because instead of pulling 0.92 lateral g's the cars now were pulling 1.2 lateral g's and the program wasn't designed for it?

The rules specifically state that Car & Driver asked the manufacturers to provide the most track friendly wheels and tires available. Here is the little rules section that was published in the magazine last year:


If its what the manufacturer offers in a mass produced vehicle, then its not playing with a stacked deck or using a ringer vehicle. The 1 Series M was a lower production model than the Boss 302. Its production stopped in December 2011. BMW didn't offer tires more performance oriented than the Pilot Sport PS2. For something so limited in production, they could have offered different tires as a factory option, but they didn't.

This is a test of cars as available form the factory. Sure you can modify these cars in many different ways to make them faster, intakes, headers, exhausts, computer reprogramming, different wheels, different tires, different seats, removing air conditioning, etc.... but that's not how they are delivered from the factory.

[nuTinmuch]

People also put way too much weight on this specific test in general, just as way many people put a lot of weight on the Nurburgring + the Top Gear test track.

Every track is different, and likewise, conditions are different at the LL from year to year.

What the Lightning Lap does show, though, is that almost everyone is improving year to year.

It's fun, though.

They did get a few laps out of the car before the brakes failed suddenly and posted a time. Maybe Nissan didn't want to resubmit a car?

I think they did the test a little earlier this year. There are only a few 2012 370s around the country right now, and afaik, there was a pretty huge delay in getting them out, as the plant they are built at was still recovering from last year.

[JB'sLGT]

not quoting your whole post

Originally Posted by Chris B.

BMW has offered the Pilot Sport Cup on some models of the M3 as a factory option in...

Just admit the Boss has a huge advantage over the other cars in its class b/c it has R-Comps...even if they are a factory option.

Also, no one competitive in autox runs PS2s b/c they're expensive and no where near grippy enough (we're talking street tire classes).

[Chris B.]

Originally Posted by JB'sLGT

not quoting your whole post
Just admit the Boss has a huge advantage over the other cars in its class b/c it has R-Comps...even if they are a factory option.

Each car has different things that give it advantages in different areas. The 1 Series M's broad torque curve gives it an advantage over naturally aspirated cars that have a narrower range of peak torque. For example, compare the Honda S2000 CR to the 2010 Mustang GT. They have about the same power to weight ratio, but the Mustang has a broader range of torque. The S2000 makes most of its torque from 6000-8000 RPM. The Mustang makes most of its torque from 1500 RPM to 5700 RPM. The Mustang weighs at least 700 lbs more than the S2000 CR and the S2000 CR has a lower frontal area and a lower Cd. The S2000 CR has the Bridgestone Potenza RE070 tires with a treadwear of 140 and the Mustang has the Pirelli tires with a treadwear of 220. Yet, the Mustang runs faster lap times in this test even though its heavier, has less grippy tires, has a larger frontal area, and more drag because it has a more torque over a wider RPM range. Just like the 1 Series M has more torque over a wider RPM range than the Boss 302 LS. The broad range of torque is even mentioned in the article as an advantage the 1 Series M has over many of the other cars in the test. Each car has its advantages and disadvantages.

If a manufacturer puts good tires on some of its limited production cars and some people don't like it then they should complain to the car manufacturers and not on forums. Back in 1999-2000 you could get the same ties on the Ford Escort, as part of a factory option package, that came standard on the BMW M3 and some Ferraris of the time period.

Originally Posted by JB'sLGT

Also, no one competitive in autox runs PS2s b/c they're expensive and no where near grippy enough (we're talking street tire classes).

I never said they were a class leading must have tire, but for a true street tire they are pretty grippy and do well. Look at the SCCA and BMW CCA results from the events in the San Fran area from a few years back. There were quite a few people running those tires who weren't far off the pace of the hot street tire class tires of the time and some people using those tires had PAX times that were close to the fastest PAX times of the day.