big trouble need help - TriStateTuners.com :: Home of Tristate Auto Enthusiast

bziegler · 09-27-2010, 04:13 PM

i have a 1995 honda civic ex and i was driving the other day i drive a little hard but not rediculously hard.. but my car just shut off while driving i wasnt stopped or anything i was still moving.. so i started it back up and than i stopped and when i started to roll again and at 2000 rpms a bag knock started and than went away and about 4000 itll come back again.. now at idle it wont make any noise and it will be normal... whats going on????

EklipzGSXkid · 09-27-2010, 05:04 PM

Rod bearing.......

bziegler · 09-27-2010, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EklipzGSXkid

Rod bearing.......

you sure haha?

Qwibby · 09-27-2010, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EklipzGSXkid

Rod bearing.......

I'd sadly have to agree

EklipzGSXkid · 09-27-2010, 10:34 PM

Pull each plug wire (1 at a time)from each cyliner while running (Don't get shocked). If the noise stops, You'll know which cylinder has the bad bearing. Don't pull them all off at once though (obviously). Pull one off, Put it back on, And continue.

bziegler · 09-27-2010, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EklipzGSXkid

Pull each plug wire (1 at a time)from each cyliner while running (Don't get shocked). If the noise stops, You'll know which cylinder has the bad bearing. Don't pull them all off at once though (obviously). Pull one off, Put it back on, And continue.

okay but the noise isnt at idle so hold the car at 2 grand and do that

bziegler · 09-27-2010, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwibby

I'd sadly have to agree

being a poor college kid isnt helping

EklipzGSXkid · 09-28-2010, 06:57 AM

Care to share any more information for him, Rather then just diss-agreeing? You can try to give him some more information. Sure, It can actually be many different things. I listed the most likly to the way it had been explained. I'm going off of what most of the time the noise " could be". When cars come into my shop with a knock that isn't there at idle, But is there at a certain rpm it's more then 90% of the time, A bearing. It will only get worse the more the car is driven.

For example, Though... I've done 4 customers cars THIS past month alone, That all spun bearings. The case was identical. Other then that, I have two more scheduled in for this coming month that are arriving for the same problem, Aswell.

bziegler · 09-28-2010, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EklipzGSXkid

Care to share any more information for him, Rather then just diss-agreeing? You can try to give him some more information. Sure, It can actually be many different things. I listed the most likly to the way it had been explained. I'm going off of what most of the time the noise " could be". When cars come into my shop with a knock that isn't there at idle, But is there at a certain rpm it's more then 90% of the time, A bearing. It will only get worse the more the car is driven.

For example, Though... I've done 4 customers cars THIS past month alone, That all spun bearings. The case was identical. Other then that, I have two more scheduled in for this coming month that are arriving for the same problem, Aswell.

well its not the rod bearings... just pulled the bottom end off today and i didnt see anythhing wrong with them everything looked good rods were a little loose so i tightend them put everything back but still a knock my buddy thinks its an intake valve spring

EklipzGSXkid · 09-28-2010, 04:57 PM

First of all, I don't understand why the poster that ''diss-agreed'' with me, Deleted his post? Regardless, I was asking him for information as to what lead him to that conclusion, But obviously he was either just spamming, Or trying to spread around incorrect information on the internet, Like most spammers do that know nothing.

I don't understand...

The rods ''looked loose'', So you tightened them? Did you pull the rod caps off and inspect the rod bearings and crank????

Did you use a torque wrench and torqued the rod bolts to the specific torque spec, When "tightening down" the rod bolts?

What do you mean, You pulled the bottom end off? The oil pan?

Are you firmiliar with cars and the internals of an engine and how they work, diss-assemble, and Re-assemble?

How did your friend come to the conclusion about it being an " intake valve spring".... That's very far out there.... Does he mean a lifter? Does your friend know about the internals of an engine?

Sorry for all the questions, But if you want help, unfortunatly you hafto answer the questions. If you just pulled the oil pan and "looked" at things, You may not know you have a spun bearing.....

justdoggedya · 10-06-2010, 11:36 AM

ill have to agree with eklipz on this one.if you want my opinion pull that motor scrap it and put a dohc vtec motor in that bad boy if you like to drive hard.

420sx · 10-06-2010, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justdoggedya

ill have to agree with eklipz on this one.if you want my opinion pull that motor scrap it and put a dohc vtec motor in that bad boy if you like to drive hard.

Basically. If its just a daily and nothing more, you can pick up another D-series for under $400. If its your fun car too, now would be the time to pick a different motor if thats the route you want to go. You could also probably do just the rod bearings without much effort as well.

EklipzGSXkid · 10-06-2010, 12:13 PM

I honestly would not replace just a bearing though, If you spun a bearing. I've seen this done (no lie), almost a half dozen times this past year. I ended up putting a new motor in almost every one of the cars the people did this too, Because the cars lasted from 1 to 3 days long only.

420sx · 10-06-2010, 12:20 PM

Why is that? If the crank and rod suffered no damage, why cant you just replace the bearings and be on your way? What else would need to be done?

OutToWinPAHC · 10-06-2010, 12:24 PM

3 foot wooden dowel. Put the dowel on places like the exhaust runners right against the head, side of the head, intake runners, valve cover, injector solenoid and listen through the dowel... You should be able to pin point if the noise is on the top and, what cylinder it is, and if its on the intake or exhaust stroke.

Now you wont see rod knock by looking, could also be a wrist pin. But you should see bearing carnage somewhat.

OutToWinPAHC · 10-06-2010, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 420sx

Why is that? If the crank and rod suffered no damage, why cant you just replace the bearings and be on your way? What else would need to be done?

You don't spin or loose bearings without affecting clearances, heating somethings, or scoring something. Tolerances are tight, usually the journals needs repair and polishing and a alter spec bearing.

420sx · 10-06-2010, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OutToWinPAHC

You don't spin or loose bearings without affecting clearances, heating somethings, or scoring something. Tolerances are tight, usually the journals needs repair and polishing and a alter spec bearing.

But on a car without a spun bearing, it would be as simple as just replacing them? IE, if the rods came out and the existing bearings were in good shape, one could simply install the new ones and off you go?

SovXietday · 10-06-2010, 01:14 PM

It's a rod bearing, DON'T turn the damn car on! I don't know why people say that you should diag a suspected spun bearing by turning the car on, if you catch it soon enough you can fix it without having to replace the whole lower end. Especially in a Honda, I've done it, I've seen it done, and Honda even considers it an ok way to fix a customers car if the damage is under a certain degree.

You need to tear apart the lower end of the car. The WHOLE thing, not just look at the backside of the rod, that doesn't tell you anything. You have to take the rods apart, and you need to look at the actual bearing surface. If it's got heat marks on it, scratches that can catch a fingernail, etc it needs to be replaced. The JOURNALS MUST BE CLEAN! They cannot have scratches on them or heat markings. If they do, THE ENTIRE CRANK MUST BE REPLACED. You need to get the correctly sized bearings from Honda, and you won't be able to tell without taking the crank out and being able to look at the markings on the girdle. Honestly, if you're going to replace one, you should just replace them all. Spinning one means you definitely damaged all of the others to some degree anyway.

It is cheaper to fix the bearings than it is to replace the lower end, however, it is also much more difficult and time consuming and you really need to know what you're doing. My honest suggestion, find yourself a good block and swap it. All done.

OutToWinPAHC · 10-06-2010, 01:32 PM

This is true, but you always dont have to replace a crank, good machine shops and repair them. But if its a lower end noise, and you dont have the means of doing this repair, then dont try it. However if its top end, you can use the dowel method to source the noise.

Could be rod knock, main bearings, or rod bearings....... or it could be as simple as a lifter

shutupnshift04 · 10-06-2010, 05:36 PM

Its 100% rod bearing. Especially if you took the pan off and it was loose and tightening a blown bearing WILL NOT HELP YOU. when a bearing goes the rod walks around the crank and will absolutely damage a motor to the point where the whole bottom end needs to be rebuilt especially if he was driving around trying to "diagnose" the problem. Tightening a loose rod bolt will do nothing but make the problem worse! DO NOT start the car again even though the bottom end is prolly shot by now. It will be much cheaper to buy a new motor then to pay a machine shop to fix the crank replace the bearings and while your in there you might as well do new rings/pistons especially since u might have damaged the cyl walls. Sorry to hear about your misfortune weve all been there! but next time you hear a knock turn motor off immediatly to save yourself a grand or so possibly.

09-27-2010, 04:13 PM	#1
bziegler Tri-State Training Wheels Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: downingtown Member #17077 My Ride: 95 honda civic ex iTrader: (0)	big trouble need help i have a 1995 honda civic ex and i was driving the other day i drive a little hard but not rediculously hard.. but my car just shut off while driving i wasnt stopped or anything i was still moving.. so i started it back up and than i stopped and when i started to roll again and at 2000 rpms a bag knock started and than went away and about 4000 itll come back again.. now at idle it wont make any noise and it will be normal... whats going on???? __________________ 97 dodge dakota-dead 95 honda civic ex-daily braaaaapp

09-28-2010, 06:57 AM	#8
EklipzGSXkid Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: PA Member #4554 iTrader: (13)	Care to share any more information for him, Rather then just diss-agreeing? You can try to give him some more information. Sure, It can actually be many different things. I listed the most likly to the way it had been explained. I'm going off of what most of the time the noise " could be". When cars come into my shop with a knock that isn't there at idle, But is there at a certain rpm it's more then 90% of the time, A bearing. It will only get worse the more the car is driven. For example, Though... I've done 4 customers cars THIS past month alone, That all spun bearings. The case was identical. Other then that, I have two more scheduled in for this coming month that are arriving for the same problem, Aswell. Last edited by EklipzGSXkid; 09-28-2010 at 07:03 AM.

10-06-2010, 12:20 PM	#14
420sx Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Warrington, PA Member #2811 My Ride: '98 240sx, 98 Impreza L, 00 SV650 iTrader: (5)	Why is that? If the crank and rod suffered no damage, why cant you just replace the bearings and be on your way? What else would need to be done? __________________ loltst

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09-27-2010, 05:04 PM	#2
EklipzGSXkid Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: PA Member #4554 iTrader: (13)	Rod bearing.......

09-27-2010, 10:34 PM	#5
EklipzGSXkid Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: PA Member #4554 iTrader: (13)	Pull each plug wire (1 at a time)from each cyliner while running (Don't get shocked). If the noise stops, You'll know which cylinder has the bad bearing. Don't pull them all off at once though (obviously). Pull one off, Put it back on, And continue.

09-28-2010, 04:57 PM	#10
EklipzGSXkid Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: PA Member #4554 iTrader: (13)	First of all, I don't understand why the poster that ''diss-agreed'' with me, Deleted his post? Regardless, I was asking him for information as to what lead him to that conclusion, But obviously he was either just spamming, Or trying to spread around incorrect information on the internet, Like most spammers do that know nothing. I don't understand... The rods ''looked loose'', So you tightened them? Did you pull the rod caps off and inspect the rod bearings and crank???? Did you use a torque wrench and torqued the rod bolts to the specific torque spec, When "tightening down" the rod bolts? What do you mean, You pulled the bottom end off? The oil pan? Are you firmiliar with cars and the internals of an engine and how they work, diss-assemble, and Re-assemble? How did your friend come to the conclusion about it being an " intake valve spring".... That's very far out there.... Does he mean a lifter? Does your friend know about the internals of an engine? Sorry for all the questions, But if you want help, unfortunatly you hafto answer the questions. If you just pulled the oil pan and "looked" at things, You may not know you have a spun bearing.....

10-06-2010, 11:36 AM	#11
justdoggedya Tri-State Training Wheels Join Date: Oct 2010 Member #17721 My Ride: 1999 civic si iTrader: (0)	ill have to agree with eklipz on this one.if you want my opinion pull that motor scrap it and put a dohc vtec motor in that bad boy if you like to drive hard.

10-06-2010, 12:13 PM	#13
EklipzGSXkid Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: PA Member #4554 iTrader: (13)	I honestly would not replace just a bearing though, If you spun a bearing. I've seen this done (no lie), almost a half dozen times this past year. I ended up putting a new motor in almost every one of the cars the people did this too, Because the cars lasted from 1 to 3 days long only.

10-06-2010, 12:24 PM	#15
OutToWinPAHC Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Tokelau Member #5081 My Ride: R33 GTS25T, RHD E46, Truck, part R32 GTR iTrader: (2)	3 foot wooden dowel. Put the dowel on places like the exhaust runners right against the head, side of the head, intake runners, valve cover, injector solenoid and listen through the dowel... You should be able to pin point if the noise is on the top and, what cylinder it is, and if its on the intake or exhaust stroke. Now you wont see rod knock by looking, could also be a wrist pin. But you should see bearing carnage somewhat.

10-06-2010, 01:32 PM	#19
OutToWinPAHC Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Tokelau Member #5081 My Ride: R33 GTS25T, RHD E46, Truck, part R32 GTR iTrader: (2)	This is true, but you always dont have to replace a crank, good machine shops and repair them. But if its a lower end noise, and you dont have the means of doing this repair, then dont try it. However if its top end, you can use the dowel method to source the noise. Could be rod knock, main bearings, or rod bearings....... or it could be as simple as a lifter

10-06-2010, 05:36 PM	#20
shutupnshift04 Tri-State Training Wheels Join Date: Nov 2007 Member #6240 iTrader: (0)	Its 100% rod bearing. Especially if you took the pan off and it was loose and tightening a blown bearing WILL NOT HELP YOU. when a bearing goes the rod walks around the crank and will absolutely damage a motor to the point where the whole bottom end needs to be rebuilt especially if he was driving around trying to "diagnose" the problem. Tightening a loose rod bolt will do nothing but make the problem worse! DO NOT start the car again even though the bottom end is prolly shot by now. It will be much cheaper to buy a new motor then to pay a machine shop to fix the crank replace the bearings and while your in there you might as well do new rings/pistons especially since u might have damaged the cyl walls. Sorry to hear about your misfortune weve all been there! but next time you hear a knock turn motor off immediatly to save yourself a grand or so possibly.