Out of jurisdiction?

[Gorilla Unit 33]

first off id like to thank google earth for making the power picture presentation possible....

ok story goes like this. Im just driving along on sproul rd ( aka rt320) minding my own business. Now for anyone that knows the street well the know if your coming from Springfield and into Swarthmore on this road, right after crossing over baltimore pike, theres a pretty unorganized turn. When i say unorganized i mean there ****ty roads, no yellow lines arround the turn, EXTREMELY dark at night due to on street light and being in a highly wooded area and if your a first timer to taking this turn you get confused because theres no "chevron" signs and if your looking forward all you see is orange barrier and a do not enter sign. Furthermore this turn is also the intersection for 2 other streets making it even more difficult. On to the good stuff, im proceeding, in a bone stock altima, around this turn late tonight trying to pay as much attention as possible. Just so happens i cut it a bit close, although not really any cars around, big deal right? WRONG! Just so happens theres a SPRINGFIELD police officer in his patrol car traveling the opposite way further down the street that saw me cut it a bit close. I pull over knowing right away hes going to turn around, and if he doesnt turn around its a gift from god, needless to say he does. I apoligized and gave him respect like i would with any officer. Also explained how its hard to judge that turn due to ****ty roads and no painted lines. Sgt. Raymond Purcell Jr., of the Springfield township police dept, thought well who gives a **** and took just my license. Meanwhile im sitting in my car with a friend and im thinking as i sit in my car pulled over in front of a SWARTHMORE COLLEGE sign with an arrow on it. I was in Swarthmore township, why the **** did this Springfield cop pull me over out of his jurisdiction? and what the hell is this guy doing in swarthmore to begin with? I then just thought well maybe since he never even asked for my registration, he was just going to run my background and make sure i didn't have any warrants then let me go. He comes back to my window, just as two Swarthmore police pull around the corner and onto the street, and tells me ill be receiving a ticket in the mail for "wreck less driving" and that theres points. Quickly i asked from whom i would be recieving the tiket from and he said Swarthmore. I then questioned him by saying "wait arent you a Springfield officer? how could you give me a ticket in a borough, for a borough, you dont even work for? let alone pull me over there was no major crime being committed here i don't see how thats possible or legit.". He told me "well i radioed Swarthmore police and asked if i could pull you over, and they said yes". I was shocked, inside dying laughing, and said "wait you mean to tell me within the 10 seconds you saw me come around the corner, pull a U turn and get out of your car to greet me, you had already had permission to persue me out of your boundaries? (insert gigle here) ok thank you for your time officer purcell" shook his hand, smiled and proceeded on my way.

Yellow line the turn i was traveling
Red line the intersecting streets



After this had happened i had tried to look for another officer, in my home township, to ask how this ticket could withstand in court, let alone does this springfeild officer have rights to do such a thing out of his patrol boundaries. I was unsuccessful at finding an officer to ask though at such a late time at night.

anyone know anything about this? out of township tickets? sounds like bs and just another way to get money and **** me up with points. I need to find an in with swarthmore or Springfield

[WhiteXFire]

How do charges get filed for anything...either there's a complaining witness or a police officer actually witnesses the crime. Well, you just got both, an officer from another township witnessing the action and swarthmore issuing the ticket based on his testimony. How can an officer give someone a ticket if you call the police on them and say they almost ran you off the road...how about when you get in an accident and the police come later?

[Gorilla Unit 33]

Originally Posted by WhiteXFire

How do charges get filed for anything...either there's a complaining witness or a police officer actually witnesses the crime. Well, you just got both, an officer from another township witnessing the action and swarthmore issuing the ticket based on his testimony. How can an officer give someone a ticket if you call the police on them and say they almost ran you off the road...how about when you get in an accident and the police come later?

im still trying to figure this out also myself. Like you said there basing the ticket off of his testimony, but still I was never confronted by a swarthmore police officer tonight whatsoever. Like i said as the officer was coming back to give me my liscense back and send me on the way swarthmore cops pulled onto the street, thats it swarthmore didnt do anything but that from what i saw. Although from what Officer Purcell from springfield tells me im going to be issued a ticket in the mail from Swarthmore.

Any laywers that can handle this quickly without much cash? i would assume this is a fairly easy Win.

[drew]

you better get a lawyer, that's a $200 ticket ( before taxes ) and possible 6 month suspension

[2drStunner]

Once again cops FTL! Your screwed!

[ITSTOCK]

lol, if he was on normal patrol roads, you're screwed. That would be funny watching the argument that the cop was out of his jurisdiction.

[Z3R0]

They can pull you over outside of their jurisdiction because they are cops...and cops pull people over. He can't give you a ticket but he can tell Swarthmore that he pulled someone over and that they need to mail him a reckless driving ticket...I don't know how much of a fighting chance you actually have. Did you ask him why he needed your license before you handed it to him, or why he pulled you over outside his borough when he first pulled you over?

[drew]

jurisdiction won't mean anything, he didn't write you a ticket he radioed it in and swarthmore is mailing you the ticket; that's why you didn't get it on the spot


you need a lawyer asap, i'd start calling before the ticket even arrives

[Gorilla Unit 33]

Originally Posted by ITSTOCK

lol, if he was on normal patrol roads, you're screwed. That would be funny watching the argument that the cop was out of his jurisdiction.

but he wasnt on his normal patrol roads so.....?

[Kiel]

I am so tired of the worthless cops in our area giving out bull**** tickets like this. Don't mind the drunken assholes who drive around every week, or the idiots on motorcycles who come flying down my street at 2am, or the moron people who do stupid **** like drive into me as I'm waiting in a drive thru queue, the people who try to run a red light and get blocked by oncoming traffic so they just sit in the intersection and completely block one lane of travel...nah, who cares about them, when there are easy tickets to give out to people who make a simple mistake which causes no danger to anybody and give them outrageous fines and crippling penalties! Yeah! I swear to god for every one good cop I run into I hear about 20 ****ty ones like this. It still doesn't beat the time I got pulled over for driving around a cop who had someone ELSE pulled over, late at night - I drove wide and drove slowly to pass by him, and just down the road (on 252 just past Rt 1) THREE cops come screaming up behind me and give me a sobriety check. Because I slowly drove around a cop who was doing a traffic stop. ****ing get a life, dicks. Stop harassing people.

[NJGOAT]

Unfortunately you are probably screwed. Most, if not all, towns have joint patrol and jursidiction agreements with all surrounding towns. This allows them to provide backup between the various towns in case of a major issue, as well as to avoid complications from the situation you are describing. So, the fact that a Springfield cop pulled you over in Swarthmore has no bearing on anything, because he probably has the right to do so. Tickets are always issued in the town in which they occur, hence why the ticker was from Swarthmore, not Springfield. Ever get pulled over by a state or county cop? It works the same way.

My advice would be to get a lawyer, or talk to the prosecutor. Explain the situation and plead yourself down to a fine and no points. No matter how crappy the situation is, you did, by your own admission, break the law. If you have a problem with the intersection, write your elected officials and plead the case, the judge will probably care less how poorly demarcated everything is.

[Kiel]

Originally Posted by NJGOAT

If you have a problem with the intersection, write your elected officials and plead the case, the judge will probably care less how poorly demarcated everything is.

The county and elected officials won't care about the intersection either. This area has some very poorly designed intersections which are known hazards, and they'll never, ever get fixed. It would be falling on deaf ears.

[dubjinc]

you probably won't be getting a ticket. my girl got pulled over and long story short was told to expect several tickets in the mail, and never got one, he was probably trying to get you worked up about what he thinks you did wrong, and let you think your getting tickets so you drive more careful, but i bet you won't get anything.

[J.Ralli]

purcell is a dick.... he hates modified cars in general... i hate him lol but uhh if u get a ticket lemme know cause i got a good lawyer who will only charge $500

[J.Ralli]

ahhh yes purcell, i remember why hes a dick, pulled me over cause he couldnt keep up with me and he lost me going down hill in CLIFTON HEIGHTS.... last time i checked you can see the whole way down a damn hill, then he has the nerve to say that im being a taxi driver, yea that not streotypical of anything.... ****in asshole douche bag piece of ****, stupid fat **** with his greasy 80s hair....

[Kiel]

Originally Posted by J.Ralli

ahhh yes purcell, i remember why hes a dick, pulled me over cause he couldnt keep up with me and he lost me going down hill in CLIFTON HEIGHTS.... last time i checked you can see the whole way down a damn hill, then he has the nerve to say that im being a taxi driver, yea that not streotypical of anything.... ****in asshole douche bag piece of ****, stupid fat **** with his greasy 80s hair....

Is this guy old? He sounds like the guy who pulled me over a long time ago and called my car a piece of ****.

[white2000neon]

I think if you explain your story to the prosecutor at least the points will be dropped. Tell them there is no signs to forwarn the turn and no yellow lines to follow around this turn.

[J.Ralli]

Originally Posted by Kiel

Is this guy old? He sounds like the guy who pulled me over a long time ago and called my car a piece of ****.

late 20s early 30s...

[Kiel]

Originally Posted by J.Ralli

late 20s early 30s...

Wasn't him then. Oh well at least the locals seem to be decent for my jurisdiction (Upper Providence).

[ITSTOCK]

Originally Posted by white2000neon

I think if you explain your story to the prosecutor at least the points will be dropped. Tell them there is no signs to forwarn the turn and no yellow lines to follow around this turn.

Hi, I live in the area and know these roads by heart. I was driving too fast around turns and going in to oncoming traffic.

Oh ****, I mean.....uhhhhh