internal vs external wastegates debate - TriStateTuners.com :: Home of Tristate Auto Enthusiast

igo4bmx · 07-29-2005, 04:28 PM

both do exactly what they're supposed to do.... control boost...

MuddyREX · 07-29-2005, 04:30 PM

yeah

igo4bmx · 07-29-2005, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuddyREX

yeah

i would like will to chime in on the power debate if possible ;)

2point4DSM · 07-29-2005, 04:34 PM

External wastegates are usually more beefy than internal gates and control boost better and more reliably. Venting either to atmosphere can actually add some ponies with everything else being equal because in effect the size of the exhaust is larger. A bigger external dumping wastegate is even better cause it is like a bigger exhaust.

Otherwise, venting them back into the exhaust has no effect on power except for the fact that most times external gates are used in conjunction with tubular o2 housings.

Wil

2point4DSM · 07-29-2005, 04:41 PM

On DSMs, and according to tuner shops, venting to atmosphere has been associated with up to 30hp increase.

igo4bmx · 07-29-2005, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2point4DSM

External wastegates are usually more beefy than internal gates and control boost better and more reliably. Venting either to atmosphere can actually add some ponies with everything else being equal because in effect the size of the exhaust is larger. A bigger external dumping wastegate is even better cause it is like a bigger exhaust.

Otherwise, venting them back into the exhaust has no effect on power except for the fact that most times external gates are used in conjunction with tubular o2 housings.

Wil

i will agree with that
close loop systems where the exhaust gases from the external gate go back into the main exhaust system and cause 1- more gas to go in the confined area aka resitriction and 2- a turublance from the re-introduction of gases into a moving gas flow (even through scavanging is not significan t in FI setups)

Prototype240 · 07-29-2005, 06:04 PM

"The performance advantage, while small, is usually with the remote wastegate. Showe me an integral wastegate on a race car." - Corky Bell "Maximum Boost"

Just goes along with what's been said. Just figured Mr. Bell needed to be quoted in this thread.

wgknestrick · 07-31-2005, 09:06 AM

The only downsides to EWG is price, room to fit them, and if they are dumped, sound. They are better in every shape and form.

I still don't know about the power depate on dumped vs. plumbed back in. 30hp seems a little high to me.

doug · 07-31-2005, 03:54 PM

An external tends to be more reliable, but on a lot of cars.. if they do need maitenence, theyre a b!tch to get to to work on.... internals are not as reliable, but are easy to work on.

igo4bmx · 07-31-2005, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doug

An external tends to be more reliable, but on a lot of cars.. if they do need maitenence, theyre a b!tch to get to to work on.... internals are not as reliable, but are easy to work on.

i dunno about you, but my ext wg is all bolted together (tial 38mm) u can take it apart, change springs, etc..
when i had an internal gate setup, the flapper valve part was all pressed together and you could not open it up

doug · 07-31-2005, 06:23 PM

yeah well both have negatives and positives... tial gaskets tend to blow out a lot, I'm on my third. I'm just gonna machine the flanges and run gasketless.

97TSi · 08-01-2005, 09:52 AM

External beats the piss out of internal any day. It's just a matter of whether or not you can stand the noise. And I've seen guys drop .3-.5 in the 1/4 after just an external wg.

MuddyREX · 08-01-2005, 10:10 AM

Do external wastegates make the extremely loud BRRRAAAAAAAP sound that I hear at high RPMs on the DSMs?

TalonTsi97 · 08-01-2005, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuddyREX

Do external wastegates make the extremely loud BRRRAAAAAAAP sound that I hear at high RPMs on the DSMs?

Yea usually thats what it is. Sounds good doesent it?

doug · 08-01-2005, 07:34 PM

Yeah I have an open dump on my waste gate... it's freakin' sick loud.

capaGC8 · 08-01-2005, 07:36 PM

EWGs are meant for higher powered, sometimes streetable, cars. IWGs can be modified to peform well enough to not consider going external. Just look at what Deadbolt turbo does with it's SZ series turbos.

You'll make more power with an EWG, but you'll also cause more UNWANTED attention.

doug · 08-01-2005, 07:38 PM

EWG

MuddyREX · 08-01-2005, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TalonTsi97

Yea usually thats what it is. Sounds good doesent it?

I actually think it sounds horrible. My .02

doug · 08-01-2005, 10:49 PM

you think that because wrx's sound like p00 :P

jk horizontally opposed motors

2point4DSM · 08-01-2005, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuddyREX

Quote:

Originally Posted by TalonTsi97

Yea usually thats what it is. Sounds good doesent it?

I actually think it sounds horrible. My .02

If your racing someone with an EWG it can sound intimidating. So I can understand why you wouldn't like it.... ;)

07-29-2005, 04:28 PM	#1
igo4bmx Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Under the bar... Member #592 My Ride: 2009 Audi A3 Quattro, 2008 BMW X5, 2003 WW Evo8, 2000 Turbo SOHC Civic iTrader: (1)	internal vs external wastegates debate both do exactly what they're supposed to do.... control boost... __________________ BOOST doesn't get you laid. Roofies and some creativity does however Tuned by some white dude @ a shopwithbigtrucks.com "You get what you pay for" - thanks captain obvious, unless you bought rotas and received volks.

07-29-2005, 04:30 PM	#2
MuddyREX Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Perkasie, PA Member #82 My Ride: 02 Subaru WRX iTrader: (4)	yeah __________________ The original, since 1979. <---- 190,000 mile WRX - Gone To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

07-29-2005, 04:34 PM	#4
2point4DSM Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: Jun 2005 Member #505 My Ride: 08 Sienna Limited AWD, 07 John Deere riding mower, 03 Honda Pilot, 92 GSX iTrader: (0)	External wastegates are usually more beefy than internal gates and control boost better and more reliably. Venting either to atmosphere can actually add some ponies with everything else being equal because in effect the size of the exhaust is larger. A bigger external dumping wastegate is even better cause it is like a bigger exhaust. Otherwise, venting them back into the exhaust has no effect on power except for the fact that most times external gates are used in conjunction with tubular o2 housings. Wil __________________ - Wil 08 Sienna, limited AWD w/ laser guided cruise control, FTMFW!

07-29-2005, 04:41 PM	#5
2point4DSM Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: Jun 2005 Member #505 My Ride: 08 Sienna Limited AWD, 07 John Deere riding mower, 03 Honda Pilot, 92 GSX iTrader: (0)	On DSMs, and according to tuner shops, venting to atmosphere has been associated with up to 30hp increase. __________________ - Wil 08 Sienna, limited AWD w/ laser guided cruise control, FTMFW!

07-29-2005, 06:04 PM	#7
Prototype240 Tri-State Aficionado Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: South Jersey Member #162 iTrader: (0)	"The performance advantage, while small, is usually with the remote wastegate. Showe me an integral wastegate on a race car." - Corky Bell "Maximum Boost" Just goes along with what's been said. Just figured Mr. Bell needed to be quoted in this thread. __________________ Chris DiMarco 95 240SX

07-31-2005, 03:54 PM	#9
doug Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: May 2005 Location: Springfield, PA Member #450 My Ride: 2007 WRX STi Limited, 1969 Z/28 Camaro iTrader: (1)	An external tends to be more reliable, but on a lot of cars.. if they do need maitenence, theyre a b!tch to get to to work on.... internals are not as reliable, but are easy to work on.

07-31-2005, 06:23 PM	#11
doug Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: May 2005 Location: Springfield, PA Member #450 My Ride: 2007 WRX STi Limited, 1969 Z/28 Camaro iTrader: (1)	yeah well both have negatives and positives... tial gaskets tend to blow out a lot, I'm on my third. I'm just gonna machine the flanges and run gasketless.

08-01-2005, 09:52 AM	#12
97TSi Tri-State Addict Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Haddon Heights, NJ (SJ) Member #150 iTrader: (0)	External beats the piss out of internal any day. It's just a matter of whether or not you can stand the noise. And I've seen guys drop .3-.5 in the 1/4 after just an external wg. __________________ -Nick 97 TSi B16G FactoryRemoved.com

08-01-2005, 10:10 AM	#13
MuddyREX Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Perkasie, PA Member #82 My Ride: 02 Subaru WRX iTrader: (4)	Do external wastegates make the extremely loud BRRRAAAAAAAP sound that I hear at high RPMs on the DSMs? __________________ The original, since 1979. <---- 190,000 mile WRX - Gone To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

08-01-2005, 07:34 PM	#15
doug Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: May 2005 Location: Springfield, PA Member #450 My Ride: 2007 WRX STi Limited, 1969 Z/28 Camaro iTrader: (1)	Yeah I have an open dump on my waste gate... it's freakin' sick loud.

08-01-2005, 07:36 PM	#16
capaGC8 Tri-State Addict Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: south florida Member #329 iTrader: (0)	EWGs are meant for higher powered, sometimes streetable, cars. IWGs can be modified to peform well enough to not consider going external. Just look at what Deadbolt turbo does with it's SZ series turbos. You'll make more power with an EWG, but you'll also cause more UNWANTED attention.

08-01-2005, 07:38 PM	#17
doug Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: May 2005 Location: Springfield, PA Member #450 My Ride: 2007 WRX STi Limited, 1969 Z/28 Camaro iTrader: (1)	EWG

08-01-2005, 10:49 PM	#19
doug Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: May 2005 Location: Springfield, PA Member #450 My Ride: 2007 WRX STi Limited, 1969 Z/28 Camaro iTrader: (1)	you think that because wrx's sound like p00 :P jk horizontally opposed motors

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