Technology vs. Driving

[DaveSTi]

Good discussion concerning the growth of technology in modern cars versus the encroachment of driving feel and raw driving sensations/input.

http://www.e46m3.net/technology-and-...ving-pleasure/

Some good examples of where technology may have gone too far in this video.

[Nick 95 6sp]

Good vid and discussion. Thanks.

I agree with the points they made. A car they didn't mention but I kept thinking of as the discussion went on is the GT-R. As very well as the GT-R does so many things, I just can't like it for very long.

[Rarytas]

fast forward 60 years, this thread tittle will be, Automated Driving cars VS Physical Human Input driving cars...........lol -___-

[DaveSTi]

Originally Posted by Nick 95 6sp

Good vid and discussion. Thanks.

I agree with the points they made. A car they didn't mention but I kept thinking of as the discussion went on is the GT-R. As very well as the GT-R does so many things, I just can't like it for very long.

Yeah, the GT-R is definitely one of the computerized Playstations out there these days. Another car that came to mind was my old Evo X. It was stupid easy to drive fast because of all the computers monitoring wheel slip, etc.

I really think the last era of real mechanical sports cars was that 2000-2007 time period.

[DaveSTi]

Originally Posted by Rarytas

fast forward 60 years, this thread tittle will be, Automated Driving cars VS Physical Human Input driving cars...........lol -___-

heh, Google has those cars now. Doubt it is 60 years!

[Proven]

Originally Posted by DaveSTi

Yeah, the GT-R is definitely one of the computerized Playstations out there these days. Another car that came to mind was my old Evo X. It was stupid easy to drive fast because of all the computers monitoring wheel slip, etc.

I really think the last era of real mechanical sports cars was that 2000-2007 time period.

Couldn't agree with this anymore. We are slowly becoming passengers not drivers. The only thing electronic technology should be used for is making more power in the engine.

[c7scayman]

Above all, I hate electric steering, electric throttle, and tire pressure monitors.

[Nick 95 6sp]

Originally Posted by Proven

...The only thing electronic technology should be used for is making more power in the engine.

To this I would also add turn signals

[Chris B.]

Originally Posted by DaveSTi

Yeah, the GT-R is definitely one of the computerized Playstations out there these days. Another car that came to mind was my old Evo X. It was stupid easy to drive fast because of all the computers monitoring wheel slip, etc.

I'd rather drive a fast lap on a road course in a Z06 or a 911 GT3 than a GT-R because of that. After a certain point, its less about skill and more about a computer saving your ass when you push it too far. The technology int he GT-R is amazing, however, would it feel as rewarding running a similar lap time to a driver in a 911 GT3 if you were driving a GT-R?

Originally Posted by DaveSTi

I really think the last era of real mechanical sports cars was that 2000-2007 time period.

If you can turn off all the computer aids in modern car, it would be quite a bit more fun and rewarding. However, many of them don't allow you to turn off everything or they automatically automatically enable them under certain conditions.

For a minivan/family car/daily driver I can understand having all the driver aides. For something sporty, I'd want to be able to turn them off completely.

[Proven]

Originally Posted by Nick 95 6sp

To this I would also add turn signals

haha yeah, them too!

[Proven]

Originally Posted by Chris B.

I'd rather drive a fast lap on a road course in a Z06 or a 911 GT3 than a GT-R because of that. After a certain point, its less about skill and more about a computer saving your ass when you push it too far. The technology int he GT-R is amazing, however, would it feel as rewarding running a similar lap time to a driver in a 911 GT3 if you were driving a GT-R?

This say's it best! It's even worse with Drag racing, I get bent knowing that a lot of Pro drag cars are Automatic and all's the driver really has to do is hold a pedal down and release a lever on green. Then of course he's get to stand on the podium looking like an amazingly skilled "driver" (not that they all don't have skills, but they didn't have to use them to win).

[WolfsFang]

Originally Posted by Proven

This say's it best! It's even worse with Drag racing, I get bent knowing that a lot of Pro drag cars are Automatic and all's the driver really has to do is hold a pedal down and release a lever on green. Then of course he's get to stand on the podium looking like an amazingly skilled "driver" (not that they all don't have skills, but they didn't have to use them to win).

drag racing takes alot of skill when you get to powerful cars.

Originally Posted by c7scayman

Above all, I hate electric steering, electric throttle, and tire pressure monitors.

I agree with everything but electric steering. I thought it was bad until i started to drive my FRS. Its really smooth plus it frees up the engine bay.

[jpalamar]

I love being able to turn everything except ABS off. But I do understand why I have traction/stability control. It only takes 1 slight blip of the throttle or patch of stones to send you spinning in a turn. It is a tool to save you when you make a mistake... but not to rely on it.

Now that I've put some miles on my car and got used to it I'm starting to push it harder and harder. I do it WITH my traction control/stability ON. The reason is because it is a reminder of where the cars limits are nearing. I'd probally never risk pushing my car as hard as I do without a backup but at the same time regular driving I don't feel its truely needed, but it is nice to have.

I'm mixed because it can be a great tool but at the same time people still should know the limits of their car and be able to drive without it at the same tiem.

[Nick 95 6sp]

Originally Posted by jpalamar

...it is a reminder of where the cars limits are nearing. I'd probally never risk pushing my car as hard as I do without a backup...

This is about the same thinking for why I have my Racelogic. The Supra is my fun street car that I sometimes track and I don't want to damage it on the track. If it was a full blown racecar I'd take a different approach to such safety backups. But once in a while on some clear back roads I turn it off so I can feel what it's like to have reduced traction.

[SovXietday]

Originally Posted by Proven

This say's it best! It's even worse with Drag racing, I get bent knowing that a lot of Pro drag cars are Automatic and all's the driver really has to do is hold a pedal down and release a lever on green. Then of course he's get to stand on the podium looking like an amazingly skilled "driver" (not that they all don't have skills, but they didn't have to use them to win).

Eh, not really sure I agree.

1st of all, Top Fuel and Funny cars have 3 settings. Reverse, Neutral, Forward. There are no gears to shift through lol. Pro-stock does shift through 4 gears, but they're running mid 6 second passes. Not a high 3 lol.

2nd, those guys are driving on the edge of consciousness, let alone on the edge of tire grip and the edge of their engines turning into a massive raging firebal.

Skills, check. Balls, double check. Brains, well...

[Proven]

Originally Posted by SovXietday

Eh, not really sure I agree.

1st of all, Top Fuel and Funny cars have 3 settings. Reverse, Neutral, Forward. There are no gears to shift through lol. Pro-stock does shift through 4 gears, but they're running mid 6 second passes. Not a high 3 lol.

2nd, those guys are driving on the edge of consciousness, let alone on the edge of tire grip and the edge of their engines turning into a massive raging firebal.

Skills, check. Balls, double check. Brains, well...

Ok, I agree that those guys running 3 and 4 second passes have skills, balls, and are capable of doing something I'd prob. pass out trying. I did exaggerate with saying "all's they have to do is let go of a lever". I really wasn't thinking about funny cars / Top fuel when I mentioned it.