Track Racing OR AutoX?

[Chris B.]

Originally Posted by JB'sLGT

Good to see some actual data. $4k is still a large amount of money.

I wish my rotors were $60 per pair!

$4k for 1220 minutes(over 20 hours) of track time. How much would 20 hours of AutoX cost in entry fees alone?

Ford OEM rotors form Newtakeoff.com They came off Mustangs that were send fromt the assembly line to an aftermarket tuner for upgrades. They were converted to Roush, Shelby, Steeda, Griggs, etc... special models with brake upgrades.

[Scapegoat]

Originally Posted by jpalamar

If your budget is $200 for racing, you can't really afford it anyway.

i thought the same thing... even if you're autocrossing half seriously, your budget should be way more than $200 for the season

[Elliott18t]

Originally Posted by Chris B.

$4k for 1220 minutes(over 20 hours) of track time. How much would 20 hours of AutoX cost in entry fees alone?

Ford OEM rotors form Newtakeoff.com They came off Mustangs that were send fromt the assembly line to an aftermarket tuner for upgrades. They were converted to Roush, Shelby, Steeda, Griggs, etc... special models with brake upgrades.

considering it would take more than the year to reach 20hrs of driving time in autox, over the course of the year its cheaper in upfront costs I guess.. But when you start considering track time and parts etc, track days are the obvious winner.

[Scapegoat]

autocross is great, if you like using one gear

[mcperson2k]

JDMTylers CRX is so mint, it probably won't ever see any track.

[DJI203]

I don't understand why there's so much discussion, it's simply a distinction between value and cost.

If you are constrained by total cost, ie an absolute number that your budget cannot exceed, then track days are not for you. If you have $200 that needs to be stretched over one year, you don't have a choice besides multiple autocross events or perhaps 1 track day. But if you are not constrained and can afford to spend upwards of $1500, then you have the option of both track days and auto-x. And given the 2 options track days seem to be the better value in terms of PER minute or mile.

[JB'sLGT]

Originally Posted by Chris B.

$4k for 1220 minutes(over 20 hours) of track time. How much would 20 hours of AutoX cost in entry fees alone?

$4900 spread out over 14+ years assuming 10 events per year. So basically in 14+ years I can expect to pay about a quarter more than what you spent in one. For over 14 years of racing I can more than live with that.



What are your costs for 14 years of track days at your 2010 rate?

$2470 x 14 = $34,500 in entry fees alone. add in tires, pads, rotors, vehicle wear, insurance, etc and we're talking well into the $40k
range.

Originally Posted by Scapegoat

i thought the same thing... even if you're autocrossing half seriously, your budget should be way more than $200 for the season

Thanks Dad. It is.

[Khellen]

Originally Posted by DJI203

I don't understand why there's so much discussion, it's simply a distinction between value and cost.

If you are constrained by total cost, ie an absolute number that your budget cannot exceed, then track days are not for you. If you have $200 that needs to be stretched over one year, you don't have a choice besides multiple autocross events or perhaps 1 track day. But if you are not constrained and can afford to spend upwards of $1500, then you have the option of both track days and auto-x. And given the 2 options track days seem to be the better value in terms of PER minute or mile.

Agreed. I think we can now rest the case of "which venue allows you the most driving time per your dollar spent."

I still don't think track days are the end all choice. You learn a lot of great skills at autoX events that will be useful in all other motorsports. One of the best things you learn to do at any autoX is being able to adapt and learn new courses every time you attend an SCCA event. At every event you're having to learn a new course within a short period of time, react / read ahead as you drive, plan out your lines, and where you should be braking.

The best experience would be to do both types of events. Obviously most members won't be able to afford to do a track day every month so there is plenty of room to do both events.

[Chris B.]

Originally Posted by JB'sLGT

What are your costs for 14 years of track days at your 2010 rate?

$2470 x 14 = $34,500 in entry fees alone. add in tires, pads, rotors, vehicle wear, insurance, etc and we're talking well into the $40k
range.

Actually, its no where close to that. If you attend track days that regularly, after a few years, most people either move on to wheel to wheel racing or become an instructor. Depending on who is running the track day, instructors either get to go for free or pay $25-$50 per track day.

[DJI203]

Originally Posted by Chris B.

Actually, its no where close to that. If you attend track days that regularly, after a few years, most people either move on to wheel to wheel racing or become an instructor. Depending on who is running the track day, instructors either get to go for free or pay $25-$50 per track day.

+1

NASA allows instructors to run HPDE for FREE. I'm hoping to get there in 1-2 years.

Chris - what's the next DE you're doing?

[JB'sLGT]

Nice. Autox also allows instructors to run for free.

[Chris B.]

Originally Posted by DJI203

Chris - what's the next DE you're doing?

I haven't decided yet. Between moving and my work schedule changing I only signed up for one event so far in June. I might do NJMP Thunderbolt with Tracktime 4 Cars next week on Tuesday.

[Scapegoat]

Originally Posted by JB'sLGT

Thanks Dad. It is.

$200/year covers wear and tear, gas, event fee's, etc?

[DJI203]

Originally Posted by Khellen

I still don't think track days are the end all choice. You learn a lot of great skills at autoX events that will be useful in all other motorsports. One of the best things you learn to do at any autoX is being able to adapt and learn new courses every time you attend an SCCA event. At every event you're having to learn a new course within a short period of time, react / read ahead as you drive, plan out your lines, and where you should be braking.

The best experience would be to do both types of events. Obviously most members won't be able to afford to do a track day every month so there is plenty of room to do both events.

in all seriousness you should just splurge on 1 track day. you talk about the merits of auto-x and we've done it. the car control i learned during those 2 seasons of auto-x helped me during my last event at Summit when the rear end came loose and I had to save it from going off track. but if u think auto-x is that great, doing a track day will blow your mind. the concept of carrying momentum, threshold braking, trail braking, throttle steer, race line vs school line... you won't get that ever during auto-x.

last CCA event at NJMP, they hosted an auto-x session as well. of the 100+ cars that showed up, i think only 10 bothered to do the auto-x. the rest skipped or just hung out at the paddocks instead. once you've done a DE...

[JB'sLGT]

Originally Posted by Scapegoat

$200/year covers wear and tear, gas, event fee's, etc?

I said before my budget is higher than that. I don't have a set limit, but I have a good idea what I can and cannot spend.

Originally Posted by DJI203

last CCA event at NJMP, they hosted an auto-x session as well. of the 100+ cars that showed up, i think only 10 bothered to do the auto-x. the rest skipped or just hung out at the paddocks instead. once you've done a DE...

Autox is a humbling experience for most road racers/track dayers. If you don't keep getting practice at it, you'll be off your game big time. I completely understand. My first event this season I did terrible.

[jcr557]

Autocross, rallycross first. Thats how I started and then moved on to track events and now currently into rally. Everything money depending of course. Racing is an expensive hobby lol.

[DJI203]

Originally Posted by JB'sLGT

Autox is a humbling experience for most road racers/track dayers. If you don't keep getting practice at it, you'll be off your game big time. I completely understand. My first event this season I did terrible.

Why do you continue to talk up auto-x? You don't need to preach the merits any further, I've already said more than once I found it to be valuable. However considering you have NOT done ONE hot lap in your life, you really are NOT in a position to comment on auto-x vs track, and this is what the thread is about. It was not about auto-x vs nothing - please tell me why auto-x is better than nothing.

It's laughable to assume the folks at CCA were "off their game big time." Why don't you attend the CCA auto-x events and see how off they are. It's just after you've come into the pits after driving 25 minutes on a 2.5 mile course with multiple elevation changes, blind turns, etc.. the last thing the drivers cared for was to drive through a glorified NJ drivers road test holding 2nd gear. It wasn't humbling, it was just boring.

Again most of us DE'rs have started off doing auto-x or even continue to do both. Case in point:

Originally Posted by jcr557

Autocross, rallycross first. Thats how I started and then moved on to track events and now currently into rally. Everything money depending of course. Racing is an expensive hobby lol.

When you've done both, then come back and comment here. If not, start a thread, Auto-X vs Nothing?

[JB'sLGT]

Originally Posted by DJI203

Why do you continue to talk up auto-x? You don't need to preach the merits any further, I've already said more than once I found it to be valuable. However considering you have NOT done ONE hot lap in your life, you really are NOT in a position to comment on auto-x vs track, and this is what the thread is about. It was not about auto-x vs nothing - please tell me why auto-x is better than nothing.

It's laughable to assume the folks at CCA were "off their game big time." Why don't you attend the CCA auto-x events and see how off they are. It's just after you've come into the pits after driving 25 minutes on a 2.5 mile course with multiple elevation changes, blind turns, etc.. the last thing the drivers cared for was to drive through a glorified NJ drivers road test holding 2nd gear. It wasn't humbling, it was just boring.

I haven't done both? And why are you so mad?

I was stating a fact. If you haven't been practicing. You won't be good at it.

Calm down. Yeesh.

[oneday]

DJ, if you don't like AX so be it, but do you not get that some people _prefer_ the competition aspect of AX over just driving at track days?

Over the last 10 years of AX and HPDEing, I've found that people who constantly repeat that "AX sucks/is lame/is boring" are themselves terrible AXers (and therefore hate AX).

I happen to still enjoy AX even though I spend most of my motorsports money/time budget on track days and/or wheel to wheel racing. AX demands a totally different mindset and focus compared to HPDEs.

[jcr557]

Originally Posted by DJI203

When you've done both, then come back and comment here. If not, start a thread, Auto-X vs Nothing?

I have done both and I consider autocross a learning experience to get a better understanding of a car. Racing against the clock is fun and at the end of the day knowing where you placed in your class and overall is awesome. I go through a lot of cars and everytime I purchase a new one, I take it to an autocross event.

Track events are more fun and require more money/planing/experience and at the same they are more dangerous. Not dangerous in the sence of you crashing (which is always a possibility) but more dangerous in the sence of not knowing how experienced the driver in front of you or behind you is and by they making a mistake, in can affect you. At the same time, one as the driver knows the consequences of the sport and since this is our hobby, we have to look past that and hope everything will be good by the end of the day.