Track Racing OR AutoX?

[jpalamar]

Originally Posted by JB'sLGT

I'm sitting here doing math and I'm finding that the $ per seat time argument isn't holding up when you look at a full 10 event season of autox vs 10 track day expenses, including entry fees, gas, tires, pads, rotors, insurance (?), and lodging (?).

Using my actual data from last year
# of AutoX events: 5 (due to health and other reasons)
Total time spent driving at events: 42.65 minutes
Entry fees: $175

So you wasted 5 total days and $175 to only be behind the seat for 42.65 minutes. You can do that in 1 day of a road course for not much more $. I can guarentee you get more out of consistant track time then you do doingless then 10 minutes at a day at autoX.

[Elliott18t]

i remember when my friend started he burnt through a set or so on his mustang. it's been properly balanced since then.

I am wondering if I will get into it this year or not..

[DJI203]

Originally Posted by JB'sLGT

I'm sitting here doing math and I'm finding that the $ per seat time argument isn't holding up when you look at a full 10 event season of autox vs 10 track day expenses, including entry fees, gas, tires, pads, rotors, insurance (?), and lodging (?).

Using my actual data from last year
# of AutoX events: 5 (due to health and other reasons)
Total time spent driving at events: 42.65 minutes
Entry fees: $175
Fuel cost driving to, from, and at events: $90
Tolls: $40
Tires: $0. on my 3rd season with my Z1s, which I also daily from March to early November, depending on weather trends. Original purchase price $800. plus mount and balance $90.
Pads: $0. installed HPSes 4 years ago and have a third of life left. Original purchase price was $200 for all 4 corners.
Rotors $300. I installed these in February of last year but the originals had 90k miles on them. I hardly consider this an autox expenditure.

Totalling that up, last year I spent $7.15 for every minute spent of actual driving at autoxes.

I'm very interested to hear what you guys are spending per year on all your track days and how many events you do.

If you REALLY want to play that game, then make it even more apples to apples and add in the wear and tear on the same number of miles you drive in auto-x. 4 sessions on track is maybe 80 miles driving. Do a 2 day event and that's 160 miles... think of how long it'd take you to rack up 80-160 miles on an auto-x course, YEARS...

Lodging and tolls are moot, there are plenty of tracks just as close as to your local auto-x event. In terms of brakes/tires, I did 6 days last year on my current set of rotors, pads, and tires. My pads still have 2/3rds life left, rotors the same, Star Specs at 7/32nd. You have to remember there are so many pad options, some much more aggresive than others. Same with tires and treadwear... I was considering the Hankook R-S3's b/c of their awesome value but truth is I think I might get more like out of the Star Specs (not to mention in the northeast, you have to be prepared to drive in the wet where the R-S3's won't perform as well).

I typically plan for 4-5 events per year, most of which are 2 day events so call it on average 7-9 days. Each 2 day event is around $350, and that's 8-10 driving sessions ranging from 20-25 mins each. So call it 200 mins driving per weekend, also factor in the classroom training which is probably another 180 mins for the weekend. Your registration fee buys you total "activity" time of 380 mins, or little over 6 hours per weekend. A typical auto-x day gets you maybe 7 runs, each one being a minute or less. So $50 buys me 7 mins driving, which is fine. But the fact that I'm also working half the day chasing cones, I don't consider that as part of "total activity" time I bought... if anything it's the exact opposite, lol.

This really isn't that complicated nor does it have to be. Yes, one day or weekend of hot laps will be more expensive than 1 day or weekend of auto-x. But whether it's registration fee, wear and tear, gas, etc - when you factor in total time or miles you get per event, auto-x is not the clear cheaper alternative. And let me reiterate, I have nothing against auto-x. I did it for 2 seasons with MSNE and it was fun and useful (car control techniques). But end of day, I wanted to leave the parking lot and really see what the car is capable of, whether it's through a chicane, sweeper, or the straights - all on different elevations. You'll never get that with auto-x.

Originally Posted by jpalamar

So you wasted 5 total days and $175 to only be behind the seat for 42.65 minutes. You can do that in 1 day of a road course for not much more $. I can guarentee you get more out of consistant track time then you do doingless then 10 minutes at a day at autoX.

Exactly, for 2x what he spent, he would've gotten over 4.5x driving time...

[Elliott18t]

http://www.scca.com/about/index.cfm?cid=44704

where does $175 come from in fees for autox?

[DJI203]

Originally Posted by JB'sLGT

Using my actual data from last year
# of AutoX events:5 (due to health and other reasons)
Total time spent driving at events: 42.65 minutes
Entry fees: $175

Originally Posted by Elliott18t

http://www.scca.com/about/index.cfm?cid=44704

where does $175 come from in fees for autox?

It's $35 per event...

[Elliott18t]

i see nothing about $35 per event on either scca.com or phillyscca.com

[Chris B.]

Originally Posted by JB'sLGT

I'm very interested to hear what you guys are spending per year on all your track days and how many events you do.

In 2010 I spent $1,741.99 on wheels, tires, rotors, and brake pads. The tires had more than 50% tread left in the winter of 2010 when I put the snow tires on my car and the last set of brake pads I bought had about 70% of the pad material left. So that works out to under $1.43 per minute in parts. That's not deducting for the tire tread left and the brake pad material left.

I spent $2,470.96 on entry fees with the higher priced track day groups and I paid extra with many of them to get an instructor, even when they said I really don't need it. I had approximately 1220 minutes of track time in 2010 over 11 days at the track. So that works out to $224.63 per track day or $2.025 per minute in entry fees.

I don't have records on gas costs for the track days and several of the track days I picked because they were along to route to somewhere else I was heading for vacation. For example VIR was on my way to a vacation in South Carolina. Monticello and Watkins Glen were on my way to visit friends in upstate NY. My Mustang averaged about 8 MPG on the track and I did over 1500 miles on the track in 2010. So I estimate I used at least 190 gallons on the track.

With the price of parts and entry fees, my track time cost me about $3.45/minute. That doesn't include deducting half of the $968 spent on tires because the tires had more than 50% tread left at the end of 2010 nor deducting half the price of the brake pads I bought in the fall of 2010 because they had at least 70% of the material left on them. It also doesn't include the price of gasoline used at the track because I don't have receipts for that.

I also could have gone to the same tracks with lower priced groups on different days, but with my work schedule being such that I worked every other weekend at the time and certain days during the week, it limited what days I could go.

So in summary $3.45 per minute not including gasoline and not deducting for tires that were only 50% worn and used next season along with brake pads that were only 30% worn and used next season.

[Chris B.]

Originally Posted by jpalamar

So you wasted 5 total days and $175 to only be behind the seat for 42.65 minutes. You can do that in 1 day of a road course for not much more $. I can guarentee you get more out of consistant track time then you do doingless then 10 minutes at a day at autoX.

42.65 minutes is about two sessions of a typical track day where you get 4 to 5 sessions or sometimes seven sessions. With some local track day entry fees being $210-$225, it seems cheaper to do the track day.

[JB'sLGT]

DJ what kind of car do you track?

Originally Posted by jpalamar

So you wasted 5 total days and $175 to only be behind the seat for 42.65 minutes. You can do that in 1 day of a road course for not much more $. I can guarentee you get more out of consistant track time then you do doingless then 10 minutes at a day at autoX.

So if my budget is $200 I can do one day of racing per year. SWEET!!

I agree that you will absolutely learn a track throughout the course of the day at a HPDE/PDX/open run what have you. One of the main points of autox is to race a different track each time using skills you have acquired. No two courses will ever be the same.

Originally Posted by Elliott18t

i see nothing about $35 per event on either scca.com or phillyscca.com

It will be posted on the registration page when the next event pops up. Some regions charge more, some less. Reg is usually $50 for non-SCCA members.

[JB'sLGT]

Chris - How many events did you do in 2010 & 11?

[Elliott18t]

Originally Posted by JB'sLGT

It will be posted on the registration page when the next event pops up. Some regions charge more, some less. Reg is usually $50 for non-SCCA members.

thank you,

my friend just confirmed this for me as well.

[jpalamar]

Originally Posted by Chris B.

42.65 minutes is about two sessions of a typical track day where you get 4 to 5 sessions or sometimes seven sessions. With some local track day entry fees being $210-$225, it seems cheaper to do the track day.

Even better!

Originally Posted by JB'sLGT

So if my budget is $200 I can do one day of racing per year. SWEET!!

If your budget is $200 for racing, you can't really afford it anyway.

[Elliott18t]

I would rather do a bunch of smaller (SCCA) events than one track day a year, just saying. Last few events I have been to, there are extra runs after all the heats are over anyways.

[Chris B.]

Originally Posted by JB'sLGT

Chris - How many events did you do in 2010 & 11?

In 2010 I did 11 days at the track. Most were two day events one was a one day event. In 2011, I think I only did five days at the track.

In 2009, I did four track days and spent 620 minutes on the track. Two of the days were with groups where you get 7 30 minute sessions per day.

Technically I made a profit on the 2011 track day season if you include totaling a car and the track day insurance paying me more for the car and mods than what I paid for the mods and what I owed on the car. I'll have to see how many times I got the track day insurance for events in 2010 and 2011. It wasn't for every event, just certain tracks and it cost me $140-$160 per weekend.

I updated my cost estimate to include the 50% of tire tread and 70% of brake pad left over. It looks like $2.92 per minute not including gas and track day insurance.

[JB'sLGT]

Good to see some actual data. $4k is still a large amount of money.

I wish my rotors were $60 per pair!

[oneday]

Originally Posted by Chris B.

You didn't include gas to/from or at each event.

[Elliott18t]

Originally Posted by oneday

You didn't include gas to/from or at each event.

he said he didn't include that because it was usually on the way to or from a vacation.

[igo4bmx]

Originally Posted by JB'sLGT

Good to see some actual data. $4k is still a large amount of money.

I wish my rotors were $60 per pair!

centric premium rotors at rockauto.com

best store ever

[JB'sLGT]

Originally Posted by igo4bmx

centric premium rotors at rockauto.com

best store ever

Wow great price. FBP charged me $150 per axle for the centric premiums blanks.

[Chris B.]

Originally Posted by oneday

You didn't include gas to/from or at each event.

I have no idea what the gas prices were at the time and several of the track days were on the way to visit friends and relatives on on the way to a vacation spot. So in those situations, would I just include the gas to and from the track that was out of the way of my normal driving route tot he other destinations?