ABS vs no ABS. Opinions?

[jpalamar]

Read this. I know it is for bikes, but I would think the same concept would apply to just about anything on wheels.
http://www.msf-usa.org/imsc/proceedi...ngdistance.pdf

In the ABS-enabled mode, for each load/speed/brake combination, the stopping distances were very consistent from one run to another.

In the ABS-disabled mode, the stopping distances were less consistent because the rider while modulating the brake force, had to deal with many additional variables at the same time.

Despite being compared to the best stopping distances without ABS, the average results with ABS provided an overall reduction in stopping distance of 5%. The stopping distance reduction was more significant when the motorcycle was loaded (averaging 7%).

Without ABS, the rider required numerous attempts to approach the maximum deceleration performance of the motorcycle. With the use of ABS, however, the rider was able to quickly obtain consistent maximum deceleration results, whether the vehicle was loaded or lightly loaded.

[92awdtsi]

Originally Posted by c7scayman

I know ABS is far superior. But as I stated in the starter post of this thread. I don't like the feel of it. How the pedal brake pedal pushes back at you. It does not feel like you are in control of the car.

When ABS kicks in, it knocks me out of focus on driving. ABS is like you are slowing down at 5 feet per sec, 2 feet per sec, 3 feet per sec, 4 feet per sec. Every split second, the rate of deceleration changes completely. I cannot predict the stopping distance very well. I don't know if I should steer out of the way because I don't know if it will stop in time or not.

With no ABS, it is more uniform. You slow down at almost the same rate of deceleration. That is what it feels like to me. That way, it helps me determine if I will make it staying straight, or if I should steer out of the way to avoid the accident.

I know ABS is much safer and better in every situation, I just don't like how it feels.

probably one of the most intelligent pro non abs responses yet.... i agree somewhat, i just like having the option to steer out of the way if i dont feel i'll be able to stop in time.

[OMGz Turbo]

I drove with no abs in my first vehicle...well let me fix that...it had ABS than stopped working. After i learned my limits i was fine, either way.

[Chris B.]

Originally Posted by c7scayman

I know ABS is far superior. But as I stated in the starter post of this thread. I don't like the feel of it. How the pedal brake pedal pushes back at you. It does not feel like you are in control of the car.

When ABS kicks in, it knocks me out of focus on driving. ABS is like you are slowing down at 5 feet per sec, 2 feet per sec, 3 feet per sec, 4 feet per sec. Every split second, the rate of deceleration changes completely. I cannot predict the stopping distance very well. I don't know if I should steer out of the way because I don't know if it will stop in time or not.

That sounds like either the brake system is defective and malfunctioning or your perception of the deceleration is distorted by the ABS cycling. Without ABS your rate of deceleration isn't consistent either. You just notice it less because you aren't getting feedback from the pedal. In reality, most passengers can't feel the difference in the rate of deceleration between an ABS and non ABS stop in the same car when slowing from the same speed in a similar distance. Without ABS you have some wheels that lock up and slide while others keep rotating and you never notice. With ABS when the same thing happens, the individual wheels that lock up start rotating and locking up again many times per second when you get pedal feedback. The rate of deceleration is similar. Thee aren't large fluctuations in the rate of deceleration with ABS compared to non ABS. Its just your perception of what is happening.

Originally Posted by c7scayman

With no ABS, it is more uniform. You slow down at almost the same rate of deceleration. That is what it feels like to me. That way, it helps me determine if I will make it staying straight, or if I should steer out of the way to avoid the accident.

It may feel that way, but in most cases, it probably isn't what is really happening.

Originally Posted by c7scayman

I know ABS is much safer and better in every situation, I just don't like how it feels.

There are some newer cars with ABS that don't give much brake pedal pushback when the ABS cycles.

[WolfsFang]

My eclipse never had ABS and when my Evo had working ABS i really dident mind it. The only thing i hated is when i was driving in the snow the ABS would kick in every time, was super annoying. In the end I dont really care if my car has ABS or not, on the other hand i hate how all these modern cars have so much safety features. Takes the fun out of driving :<

[piku]

This is dumb, only the best race drivers in the best scenarios (aka paying perfect attention and prepared for what is about to happen) could do better than ABS systems. The average asshole driving to and from work is not that kind of prepared (as you would be driving a race) or that kind of experienced (maybe racing several times a month on a closed track). Therefore ABS is a net positive for most any driver in most all situations.

Even if you argue that you're better, ABS can brake each wheel independently and precisely to the limits that traction allows. Your big dumb foot can't do that no matter how awesome you are.

[marshallpre1]

Originally Posted by oneday

ftfy.

Odds are that the only people in this thread that have ever taken a performance driving school, turned a lap on a race track, or done any competitive driving are the people that are posting that ABS is beneficial.

I forgot to say this. You and ChrisB with your experience are advocating ABS, while people with no experience are better drivers and don't need it.

Originally Posted by WolfsFang

My eclipse never had ABS and when my Evo had working ABS i really dident mind it. The only thing i hated is when i was driving in the snow the ABS would kick in every time, was super annoying. In the end I dont really care if my car has ABS or not, on the other hand i hate how all these modern cars have so much safety features. Takes the fun out of driving :<

I'm sorry dude, but haven't you only had your license for 2 years or less? You don't have the experience...

People who hate ABS- are you guys slamming the brakes at every light, stop sign, etc? I honestly don't remember the last time my ABS kicked in for any of my cars.... this whole, purity in driving.... with a grocery getter. Let's get realistic here.

[oneday]

Originally Posted by marshallpre1

People who hate ABS- are you guys slamming the brakes at every light, stop sign, etc?

That is the best point in this thread!

I guarantee that if many of the "ABS kicked in ,yo!" people are not looking ahead, are tailgating, or are otherwise distracted. If you watch what you are doing and look far enough ahead you do not need to panic stop and engage ABS (or lock up your tires).

[mcperson2k]

Originally Posted by marshallpre1

People who hate ABS- are you guys slamming the brakes at every light, stop sign, etc? I honestly don't remember the last time my ABS kicked in for any of my cars.... this whole, purity in driving.... with a grocery getter. Let's get realistic here.

I don't even know what ABS feels like because I have never been in a situation where its used..

[Spawne32]

Originally Posted by The Alchemist

This is just a nasty and negative comment, that adds nothing of the sort to this conversation. Throwing random statistics from your head, is not actually proving anything.

I pulled mine as a mass overhaul on my car one day. By mass over haul I mean I took a 3000 pound prelude and turned it into 2300 lbs. But I like the way the brakes handle better, not to mention I later upgraded the braking system to 2 pot calipers.

Anyone who drives like an ass in the rain, snow, sleet, or any ****ty weather deserves what they get, abs or not, if you crash car because you decided to pull your ebrake up in the snow, or you decided it was a good idea to do 60 in a 25 in rush hour traffic during a rain storm, you deserve to crash your car, and probably should be riding a 10 speed bike anyway.

Thanks for proving my point.

[Spawne32]

Originally Posted by OMGz Turbo

I drove with no abs in my first vehicle...well let me fix that...it had ABS than stopped working. After i learned my limits i was fine, either way.

My second vehicle had no ABS either, and it drove and stopped just fine, but there was at least 3 separate occasions both in the rain and in the snow where I almost got into an accident due to the need to suddenly stop, and the cars brakes locked up, and almost slid into the person in front of me. I was just fortunate enough to steer it into the shoulder. These same scenarios in my other two vehicles and my current vehicle would have stopped on a dime in bad weather conditions.

[WolfsFang]

Originally Posted by marshallpre1

I forgot to say this. You and ChrisB with your experience are advocating ABS, while people with no experience are better drivers and don't need it.



I'm sorry dude, but haven't you only had your license for 2 years or less? You don't have the experience...

People who hate ABS- are you guys slamming the brakes at every light, stop sign, etc? I honestly don't remember the last time my ABS kicked in for any of my cars.... this whole, purity in driving.... with a grocery getter. Let's get realistic here.

Where the **** did i say i dident need ABS? Maybe you should learn how to read. I said i dont care for it, ive never had my ABS come on outside of snow, i also even hardly use my brakes since i engine brake all the time. Im still on my same pair of brakes when i bought my evo a year and a half ago. Before you say **** maybe you should understand what your reading.

[Antonio]

Originally Posted by WolfsFang

Where the **** did i say i dident need ABS? Maybe you should learn how to read. I said i dont care for it, ive never had my ABS come on outside of snow, i also even hardly use my brakes since i engine brake all the time. Im still on my same pair of brakes when i bought my evo a year and a half ago. Before you say **** maybe you should understand what your reading.

You're not helping yourself

[WolfsFang]

Originally Posted by Antonio

You're not helping yourself

im not stupid, i use my brakes if i need to stop fast or if someone cuts me off. Im saying i dont really use my brakes if im coming to a stop light and i can see it from afar (or if im going to make a turn.) I really only do this when no one is behind me.

[Antonio]

no, I'm saying you're showing your inexperience when you proudly boast you "engine brake all the time."

[SovXietday]

Originally Posted by c7scayman

I know ABS is far superior. But as I stated in the starter post of this thread. I don't like the feel of it. How the pedal brake pedal pushes back at you. It does not feel like you are in control of the car.

When ABS kicks in, it knocks me out of focus on driving. ABS is like you are slowing down at 5 feet per sec, 2 feet per sec, 3 feet per sec, 4 feet per sec. Every split second, the rate of deceleration changes completely. I cannot predict the stopping distance very well. I don't know if I should steer out of the way because I don't know if it will stop in time or not.

With no ABS, it is more uniform. You slow down at almost the same rate of deceleration. That is what it feels like to me. That way, it helps me determine if I will make it staying straight, or if I should steer out of the way to avoid the accident.

I know ABS is much safer and better in every situation, I just don't like how it feels.

You should still be able to turn the car while you're braking with ABS as the tires still have traction.

[WolfsFang]

Originally Posted by Antonio

no, I'm saying you're showing your inexperience when you proudly boast you "engine brake all the time."

its just a habit of mine, when i was learning how to drive manual i got into the habit of downshifting alot. I dont see anything bad from this.

[Antonio]

nah....nothing wrong with putting unneeded stress on the motor and drivetrain.....

I'd much rather come to a stop with my brakes while in neutral which are a cheap and easy wear item to replace instead of constantly downshifting and revving down the motor, potentially causing damage to a more important and expensive driveline/powertrain part. Sure it may not happen, but each time you do, you run the risk of making a silly mistake. The more you do it, the higher the risk.

[jpalamar]

Not to mention a chance to break the tires loose for no reason.

[WolfsFang]

Originally Posted by jpalamar

Not to mention a chance to break the tires loose for no reason.

ummm...yeaaaaaaa......no, i guess you have no idea how hard it is to break sticky tires on a AWD car that has no engine mods.