The infamous "What kind of bike should I get?"

[Xavier]

I get this question all the time and I see it posted on the various forums I'm on, including this one. More often than not myself and others chime in advising would-be new riders to start small but inevitably others come in trying to tell people that it is ok to start out on a racing machine. I recently came across this well written post and decided I'd share it here and maybe help someone make the correct decision in the future.

One of the most common questions new sport bike riders have is, "What kind of bike should I get?" This question is asked so often that I created a standardized response. Please keep in mind that these are the views and opinions of one person (albeit countless other also hold them) With that said, on we go...

Getting ANY modern 600cc sport bike for a first ride is a bad idea (far, far, far worse is a 1000cc). In fact, it may be nothing more than an expensive form of suicide. Here are a few reasons why:

1. Knowledge of Subject Matter
When anyone starts something new they find themselves at the most basic point of the "beginner's mind". This is to say that they are at the very start of the learning curve. They are not even aware of what it is that they don't know. A personal example of this is when I began Shotokan Karate. The first day of class I had no idea what an "inside-block" was, let alone how to do it with correct form, power, and consistency. After some time, and a lot of practice, I could only then realize how bad my form really was. Then, and only then, was I able to begin the process of improving it. I had to become knowledgeable that inside-blocks even existed before I was aware that I could not do them correctly. I had to learn what the correct elements of inside-block were, before I realized that I did not have those elements. After I learned, I was then able to aspire towards the proper elements. This example is to illustrate the point that it takes knowledge OF something in order to understand how that something works, functions, performs, etc. Now lets return to the world of motorcycles. A beginner has NO motorcycle experience. They are not even aware of the power, mistakes, handling, shifting, turning dynamics etc. of any bike, let alone a high performance sport bike. Not only does the beginner lack the SKILL of how to ride a motorcycle, they also lack the knowledge of WHAT skills they need to learn. Acquiring those skills comes only with experience and learning from mistakes. As one moves through the learning curve they begin to amass new information...they also make mistakes. A ton of them.

2. The Learning Curve
While learning to do something, your first efforts are often sloppy and full of mistakes. Without mistakes the learning process is impossible. A mistake on a sport bike can be fatal. The things new riders need to learn above all else is smooth throttle control, proper speed, and how to lean going into turns. A 600cc bike can reach 60mph in about 3 to 5 seconds. A simple beginners mishap with that much power and torque can cost you your life (or a few limbs) before you even knew what happened. Grab a handful of throttle going into a turn and you may end up crossing that little yellow line on the road into on-coming traffic...**shudder**. Bikes that are more forgiving of mistakes are far safer (not to mention, more fun) to learn on.
Ask yourself this question; in which manner would you rather learn to walk on a circus high-wire (1) with a 4x4 board that is 2 feet off the ground (2) with a wire that is 20 feet off the ground? Most sensible people would choose (1). The reason why is obvious. Unfortunately safety concerns with a first motorcycle aren't as apparent as they are in the example above. However, the wrong choice of what equipment to learn on can be just as deadly, regardless of how safe, careful, and level-headed you intend to be.

3. "But I Will be Safe, Responsible, and Level-Headed While Learning".
Sorry, but this line of reasoning doesn't cut it. To be safe you also need SKILL (throttle control, speed, leaning, etc). Skill comes ONLY with experience. To gain experience you must ride in real traffic, with real cars, and real dangers. Before that experience is developed, you are best suited with a bike that won't severely punish you for minor mistakes. A cutting edge race bike is not one of these bikes.
Imagine someone saying, "I want to learn to juggle, but I'm going to start by learning with chainsaws. But don't worry. I intend to go slow, be careful, stay level-headed, and respect the power of the chainsaws while I'm learning". Like the high-wire example, the proper route here isn't hard to see. Be "careful" all you want, go as "slow" as you want, be as "cautious" as you want, be as "respectful" as you want...your still juggling chainsaws! The "level-headed" thing to do in this situation is NOT to start with chainsaws. Without a foundation in place of HOW to juggle there is only a small level of safety you can aspire towards. Plain and simple, it's just better to learn juggling with tennis balls than it with chainsaws. The same holds true for learning to ride a motorcycle. Start with a solid foundation in the basics, and then move up. Many people say that "maturity" will help you be safe with motorcycles. They are correct. However, maturity has NOTHING to do with learning to ride a motorcycle. Maturity is what you SHOULD use when deciding what kind of bike to buy so that you may learn to ride a motorcycle safely.

4. "I Don't Want a Bike I'll Outgrow"
Please. Did your Momma put you in size 9 shoes at age 2? Get with the program. It is far better to maximize the performance of a smaller motorcycle and get "bored" with it than it is to mess-up your really fast bike (not mention messing yourself up) and not being able to ride at all. Power is nothing without control.

5. "I Don't Want to Waste Money on a Bike I'll Only Have for a Short Period of Time" (i.e. cost)
Smaller, used bikes have and retain good resale value. This is because other sane people will want them as learner bikes. You'll prolly be able to sell a used learner bike for as much as you paid for it. If you can't afford to upgrade in a year or two, then you definitely can't afford to wreck the bike your dreaming about. At the very least, most new riders drop bikes going under 20MPH, when the bike is at its most unstable periods. If you drop your brand new bike, fresh off the showroom floor, while your learning (and you will), you've just broken a directional, perhaps a brake or clutch lever, cracked / scrapped the fairings ($300.00 each to replace), messed-up the engine casing, messed-up the bar ends, etc. It's better and cheaper to drop a used bike that you don't care about than one you just spent $8,500 on. Fortunately, most of these types of accidents do not result in serious physical injury. It's usually just a big dent in your pride and...

6. EGO.
Worried about looking like chump on a smaller bike? Well, your gonna look like the biggest idiot ever on your brand new, but messed-up bike after you've dropped it a few times. You'll also look really dumb with a badass race bike that you stall 15 times at a red light before you can get into gear. Or even better, how about a nice R6 that you can't ride more than 15mph around a turn because you don't know how to counter-steer correctly? Yeah, your gonna be really cool with that bike, huh? Any real rider would give you props for going about learning to ride the *correct* way (i.e. on a learner bike). If you're stressed about impressing someone with a "cool" bike, or embarrassed about being on smaller bike, then your not "mature enough" to handle the responsibility of ANY motorcycle. Try a bicycle. After you've grow-up ("matured"), revisit the idea of something with an engine.

7. "Don't Ask for Advice if You Don't Want to Hear a Real Answer".


A common pattern:

1. Newbie asks for advice on a 1st bike (Newbie wants to hear certain answers)

2. Experienced riders advise Newbie against a 600cc bike for a first ride (this is not what Newbie wanted to hear).

3. Newbie says and thinks, "Others mess up while learning, but that wont happen to me" (as if Newbie is invincible, holds superpowers, never makes mistakes, has a "level head", or has a skill set that exceeds the majority of the world, etc).

4. Experienced riders explain why a "level head" isn't enough. You also need SKILL, which can ONLY be gained via experience. (Newbie thinks he has innate motorcycle skills.)

5. Newbie makes up excuses as to why he is "mature" enough to handle a 600cc bike". (skill drives motorcycles, not maturity)

6. Newbie, with no knowledge about motorcycles, totally disregards all the advice he asked for in the first place. (which brings us right back to the VERY FIRST point I made about "knowledge of subject matter").

7. Newbie goes out and buys a R6, CBR, GSX, 6R, etc. Newbie is scared of the power. Being scared of your bike is the LAST thing you want. Newbie gets turned-off to motorcycles, because of fear, and never gets to really experience all the fun that they can really be. Or worse, Newbie gets in a serious accident.

8. The truth of the matter is that Newbie was actually never really looking for serious advice. What he really wanted was validation and / or approval of a choice he was about to make or already had made. When he received real advice instead of validation he became defensive about his ability to handle a modern sport bike as first ride (thus defending the choice he had made). Validation of a poor decision isn't going to replace scratched bodywork on your bike. It isn't going put broken bones back together. It isn't going graft shredded skin back onto your body. It isn't going to teach you to ride a motorcycle the correct way. However, solid advice from experienced riders, when heeded, can help to avoid some of these issues.

I'm not trying to be harsh. I'm being real. Look all over the net. You'll see veteran after veteran telling new riders NOT to get a 600cc bike for a first ride. You'll even see pros saying to start small. Why? Because we hate new riders? Because we don't want others to have cool bikes? Because we want to smash your dreams? Nothing could be further from the truth. The more riders the better (assuming there not squids)! The reason people like me and countless others spend so much time trying to dissuade new riders from 600cc bikes is because we actually care about you. We don't want to see people get hurt. We don't want to see more people die in senseless accidents that could have been totally avoided with a little logic and patients. We want the "sport" to grow in a safe, healthy, and sane way. We want you to be around to ride that R6, CBR600RR, GSX-1000, Habayasu, etc that you desire so badly. However, we just want you to be able to ride it in a safe manner that isn't going to be a threat to yourself or others. A side note, you may see people on the net and elsewhere saying "600cc bike are OK to start with". Look a bit deeper when you see this. The vast majority of people making these statements are new riders* themselves. If you follow their advice you've entered into a situation of the blind leading the blind. This is not something you want to do with motorcycles. You may also hear bike dealers saying that a 600cc is a good starter bike. They are trying to make money off you. Don't listen.

[strat]

only two things I can say...

1. smaller bikes do hold their value... that being said, do NOT buy a new bike as you will outgrow it fairly quickly.

2. if you can be responsible with your wrist, you can start on a 600. you have to have the self control though to not try to set the world on fire though because you will get yourself in trouble in a hurry.

i started on a 700 (granted it's an 85 cruiser but still an inline 4 with plenty of power) and never had any problems. wife rides a 650 savage(also her first bike) and has done great! I also know people who have started small (ninja 250) and have gone too hot into a corner and crashed. (again... i do realize a cruiser does not equal sportbike) it all rests on the rider and their ability to ride well within their limits.

[phsdrummer2]

The realm of sportbikes and cruisers are so far apart from one another it's difficult to even compare them. The throttle sensitivity on a modern sportbike is unparalleled. It's not the users desire to crack open the throttle in a straight line that really gets them in trouble it's all of the un-foreseen elements on the road that quickly get them in trouble.

A bump in the road surface, unseen pothole, gravel, or sand can be deadly if a rider has not properly learned to isolate their bodies movements on a sportbike. If a rider is still leaning on their wrists and hits anyone of those common road hazards and blips the throttle it can put them down.

It's about having the experience and knowledge of what to do and when to do it when certain events occur or better yet how to best decrease the possibility of those things happening. Having learned to ride on cruisers as a kid and then a Goldwing when I got bigger, the braking characteristics are entirely different. I find on a cruiser it is very difficult to get the rear tire bouncing or skipping. On a sportbike it is very easy and dangerous if you don't know how to control the event.

It's all about learning in the most forgiving environment possible so that if you do make a mistake there is less of a chance of it being your last.

Not trying to come at you just adding information.

[strat]

I should mention that i also have a zzr600 out in the garage currently (babysitting it for a buddy that's overseas in the military)

while I do agree that the bike has a completely different feel from a cruiser, I still think that if you are careful/responsible it wouldn't be a bad starter bike. (the zzr was my buddies first bike) I've also been riding my cruiser for 2+ years though so that may be skewing my experience/opinion.

something like suzuki's gs500 may be an even better option though. honestly, most people I know with ninja 250's are looking to offload them and step up to a bigger bike in a year or less from the initial purchase.

[Xavier]

Did you even read the OP?

[phsdrummer2]

I'll admit I had not read the article until now. I've read enough of them to know exactly what was going to be said however the way this individual said it is perfect.

I chose a 600 sportbike as my first bike and I wonder all the time if it was the best option for me. Four seasons later, I'm finally comfortable on the bike and feel as though I have acquired the skills to say that I should be on a 600.

Not my smartest move and now I always encourage new riders to start small. Fearing the bike because you don't have the ability to control it is never good.

Excellent find and post Xavier. +1 vote for a sticky on that one.

[Reds82]

Strat you do know the gs500 being air cooled, weighting a little more than the ninja 250, that they differ in power by less then ten hp either one is going to be a great starter bike and neck too neck performance wise

And X great info

[strat]

Originally Posted by Reds82

Strat you do know the gs500 being air cooled, weighting a little more than the ninja 250, that they differ in power by less then ten hp either one is going to be a great starter bike and neck too neck performance wise

And X great info

I'm sure they are similar in power but i'd be willing to be that the 500 offers more low end power and doesn't need to be revved to the moon.

also, are we talking an older gs vs an older 250? I know the newer ninja 250's are pretty powerful for what they are.

I stand by my start on a used bike statement as most riders will either put their first bike down at some point or have the want/need to step up to a bigger bike in as little as one riding season...

again... it's just my personal opinion. I've seen people start on 600's and never have issues. I've seen people start on 250's and wreck them.

[Xavier]

strat, where are you getting your info? FYI, the "new" Ninja 250's are using the same motor, with a few minor changes, that they were shipped with in the '80's. In other words, they make the same ~22.5 hp with ~15 ft.lb. of torque.

[Sberk06]

that article is just another guys opinion.

[Xavier]

...and? It is the opinion of a very knowledgeable rider. It is written with tens of thousands of miles of experiences in mind. It is written to help the inexperienced make an appropriate choice so they, too, can have the joy of safely riding tens of thousands of miles.

[strat]

Originally Posted by Xavier

strat, where are you getting your info? FYI, the "new" Ninja 250's are using the same motor, with a few minor changes, that they were shipped with in the '80's. In other words, they make the same ~22.5 hp with ~15 ft.lb. of torque.

i thought i remembered reading an article on the redesign that said power was improved but looking around online it must have been supposed increased midrange that I was remembering with the new bike. (around 30% better according to kawi) kawi did say in 08 though that the motor was "70% new."

I do see that the gs500's are rated about 20-30 hp higher than the 250 (50ish hp vs the 22.5hp above)

again, i apologize for the misinformation... my memory ain't what it used to be.

I should state again that when it comes to 98% of beginning riders, i agree with the OP.

[phsdrummer2]

The whole post is about making good informed choices. Having the choice to start out on a bike that is most likely going to teach you good habits and keep you alive longer is like making the choice not to drink and drive. Choosing a bike that is beyond your capabilities is like driving impaired. Your unaware of what exactly is happening around you or how to control it. Your reaction times are not nearly fast enough.

Are you ok with drunk driving for 2% of the population?

[strat]

riding the bike outside your limits would be synomous with driving impaired.

even on a starter bike (250,500, whatever) it's easy to push past YOUR limits and get in to trouble. I agree you are less likely to get into trouble on a smaller bike but again, people start on 600's and have no issues. other people start on 250's and wreck them.

by your logic, you shouldn't ever upgrade because even going from a 250 to a 600, it's a whole new animal and you won't be ready. you may be more aware of what needs done but your reaction times still aren't going to be 600 level if you're coming off a 250.

again, i agree that the OP is good overall advice, but to say that starting on a 600 = instant disaster just isn't true.

[triple111]

Originally Posted by strat

by your logic, you shouldn't ever upgrade because even going from a 250 to a 600, it's a whole new animal and you won't be ready. you may be more aware of what needs done but your reaction times still aren't going to be 600 level if you're coming off a 250.

I switched from a 250R to a ZX6R this year and I felt comfortable on it the first day. The big thing is just the instant power delivery and the sensitivity of the throttle.

[wil524]

Good post, new riders should read this really carefully.

As a fairly new rider, a little over 1 year now, I can say throttle control, skills (technique) and ego is the most important thing.

[SovXietday]

Originally Posted by strat

riding the bike outside your limits would be synomous with driving impaired.

even on a starter bike (250,500, whatever) it's easy to push past YOUR limits and get in to trouble. I agree you are less likely to get into trouble on a smaller bike but again, people start on 600's and have no issues. other people start on 250's and wreck them.

by your logic, you shouldn't ever upgrade because even going from a 250 to a 600, it's a whole new animal and you won't be ready. you may be more aware of what needs done but your reaction times still aren't going to be 600 level if you're coming off a 250.

again, i agree that the OP is good overall advice, but to say that starting on a 600 = instant disaster just isn't true.

No, he's saying that someone who has never ever ridden before should start out on a 250 simply because they are starting with ZERO knowledge about riding a motorcycle. They can learn all of the things that someone who rides needs to learn with far less danger than riding with a bike that can get you in trouble very fast.

Upgrading from a 250 to a 600 you are not relearning how to ride a motorcycle, you are just relearning your throttle control.

The OPs post is talking about one type of rider, and that is a brand spanking new one. No one else.

[enigma]

From someone who has too many miles to count in the past few years on my own bikes, started on a 40hp 883 sporty, and moved up to much more powerful machines.....
Starting on a modern sportbike is just dumb. A new rider on a modern sportbike will not have the skill necessary to control the bike at the speeds the bike is capable of. 100 hp and knife-like handling and killer brakes are a recipe for disaster for an in-experienced rider.
There is not one rider out there that can ever say "But I'll never do something dumb, I'm a safe rider" EVERYONE has done something dumb on a bike, whether it is just a case of riding fast on an empty highway, lane-splitting, "accidental" wheelies, divebombing into a twisty corner at any speed above the legal limit, and quick impromptu drag between two friends, or scooting around cars at traffic lights, dumb things will happen on a bike.
People who discount the information in the above article have never experienced a truely asshole-puckering experience, or who have never ridden their bikes to their own personal limits. Or they are just aliens who need to be on the track and not on the street.
Learning on a slower bike is not only safer, but it gives you a much LARGER margin for error.

[phsdrummer2]

^This /Thread.

Add to that the fact that you're 10x more likely to do something dumb and above your ability when riding with other people.

Riding with experienced riders is a great way to learn good habits but we all like to have a little fun and advanced skill sets can quickly leave a novice rider playing catch up without us realizing it.

Take yesterday for instance. Hitting old backroads outside of new hope with my dad who is a far more experienced rider. Road conditions got kind of rough and he was running away from me. Knowing I was above my skill set, I laid off to make sure I made it safely. If you don't know your limits, playing catch up to a friend can get you into trouble quick.

[That Red Talon]

I think the OP is dead on. Most 250s you can basically sell pretty close to what you paid for it as long as it was somewhat taken care of. I bought a Harley Davidson Nightster which is a 1200 when I was 18. First thing I did was enroll in Rider's Edge provided by Harley. There is a reason why they taught us on little 30hp Buell Blasts.. because anything bigger to new riders is just plain stupid. The class was very educational, and was easy to pick up on the techniques because of the less powerful Blasts, I could not imagine learning what I did on let's say a 600 street bike or a big Harley. The small Blast got the confidence up from all the riders who attended, and some even rented them for a few weeks to keep riding out on the road. New riders should NEVER be on anything over a 250 start IMO. Great post I wish I could make a poster out of this for all the ego maniacs in my town. You know the typical.. "Mom and dad sponsored, try to stunt and miserably fail" kids.