Americans & their views on Islam

[inteva6184]

Originally Posted by Asif22

Over and over I have stated...prove it. Since you know so much about me, what part of Islam do I cut out to make it easier for me? I asked you that question I don't know how many times.

They key parts to being a muslim are following the 5 Pillars. You are suppose to try to follow everything else the best you can. If you mess up or sin, it doesn't mean you are not a muslim.

I am not saying I agree with him but he asked you the same question about 45 times you ignored it 43 times and two times answered him but didnt give him the yes or no answer he was asking for. You know exactly what part hes referring to and if you dont put the top up the cold air or whatever your smoking has finally gotten to you. Again I dont know if I buy the whole if you dont practice that one part then that means you arent a Muslim but the again I dont follow the religion so I have no opinion just pointing out the obvious here.

Again I personally dont know if I think that religion is much worse than others as I dont follow any religions carefully. I do know all of them are pretty nasty. My issue is it seems like 99% of other religions understand that when time passes things change and you have to adapt to those changes it seems to me like 85% of Islam is able to grasp that concept but 15% just cant. Obviously these numbers are completely made up but what other large group of people is that crazy? I dont blame the religion per say I blame those whacked individuals still living back in ancient times. So what came first the chicken or the egg?

[Asif22]

Originally Posted by inteva6184

I am not saying I agree with him but he asked you the same question about 45 times you ignored it 43 times and two times answered him but didnt give him the yes or no answer he was asking for. You know exactly what part hes referring to and if you dont put the top up the cold air or whatever your smoking has finally gotten to you. Again I dont know if I buy the whole if you dont practice that one part then that means you arent a Muslim but the again I dont follow the religion so I have no opinion just pointing out the obvious here.

Again I personally dont know if I think that religion is much worse than others as I dont follow any religions carefully. I do know all of them are pretty nasty. My issue is it seems like 99% of other religions understand that when time passes things change and you have to adapt to those changes it seems to me like 85% of Islam is able to grasp that concept but 15% just cant. Obviously these numbers are completely made up but what other large group of people is that crazy? I dont blame the religion per say I blame those whacked individuals still living back in ancient times. So what came first the chicken or the egg?

About Sharia Law? I didn't answer him at first because he just came off completely rude and attacked me at the start of the thread. I later did answer him. Sharia Law= God's Law. OBVIOUSLY if you are muslim you follow God's Law, thats why I didn't really know what to say since it was such an obvious answer. I thought he also might be referring to other things such as Hadith.

This thread is about America's view on Islam. He went completely off topic trying to accuse me of claiming to be muslim. He is failing at that pretty bad.

I asked him the same question a million times. He hasn't responded yet.

BTW, I did answer his question.

Originally Posted by Asif22

No, I don't follow what is convenient. I don't get why you KEEP saying that. And despite what you think the 5 PILLARS of Islam are the main points. I follow what I believe is meant to be followed. A lot of things are out there some of them possibly fake. I said I take more precaution around Hadith, but I never discredited it. Last I checked the Quran was the main book of Islam. And the 5 pillars are whats most important. I represent Islam. Every muslim does. You KEEP asking about Sharia Law. To keep it simple, Sharia Law is GOD'S LAW. God's Law is in the Quran. The 5 Pillars are the main points of them. And yes, I follow those completely. Where did I say I don't approve of Sharia Law? I was talking about Hadith.

[ITSTOCK]

Originally Posted by Asif22

About Sharia Law? I didn't answer him at first because he just came off completely rude and attacked me at the start of the thread. I later did answer him. Sharia Law= God's Law. OBVIOUSLY if you are muslim you follow God's Law, thats why I didn't really know what to say since it was such an obvious answer. I thought he also might be referring to other things such as Hadith.

I asked him the same question a million times. He hasn't responded yet.

BTW, I did answer his question.

We already went over that...

You stated that you follow it for the most part but believe not everything should be followed since it could have been written later on. You also stated that some of it should be interpreted differently, not how it was represented at the time.

So back to my original point, now under the assumption that you do follow Sharia law (which I question do to the lack of answering it when asked), you surely must understand why many believe it to be a brutal, antiquated set of beliefs. You also understand the direct conflict it has within the Western culture, and it's legal system.

Since you already stated that it isn't a problem for the two to coexist peacefully, it makes me revert back to the idea that you do NOT follow Sharia law.

You are all over the map on what you do and do not follow by your statements in this thread. I hope you understand how one can interpret you to NOT follow Sharia law based on your scattered, and missing responses.

This thread is about America's view on Islam. He went completely off topic trying to accuse me of claiming to be muslim. He is failing at that pretty bad.

I asked you, I believe 8 times, DO YOU FOLLOW SHARAI LAW. You did not answer the first 8 times, and on the 9th time, you skated around a yes or no answer. This thread is about Americas view on ISLAM. If you do not follow Sharia law, you can not call yourself a Muslim. I thought that the point was pretty simple.

We are now back to the assumption that you are a true Muslim.

[Asif22]

Originally Posted by ITSTOCK

We already went over that...

You stated that you follow it for the most part but believe not everything should be followed since it could have been written later on. You also stated that some of it should be interpreted differently, not how it was represented at the time.

So back to my original point, now under the assumption that you do follow Sharia law (which I question do to the lack of answering it when asked), you surely must understand why many believe it to be a brutal, antiquated set of beliefs. You also understand the direct conflict it has within the Western culture, and it's legal system.

Since you already stated that it isn't a problem for the two to coexist peacefully, it makes me revert back to the idea that you do NOT follow Sharia law.

You are all over the map on what you do and do not follow by your statements in this thread. I hope you understand how one can interpret you to NOT follow Sharia law based on your scattered, and missing responses.

Nope. You really don't make any sense. Like I said to the other member. I didn't answer you at first because you were just rude. And I wasn't even sure what you meant when you were asking. Because OBVIOUSLY, if you are muslim, you follow God's Law. So why ask? Hadith isn't God's law. God's law is God's law. All I said was reguarding hadith. Again, not God's law. And YES, Islam can peacefully exist in Western culture. They are MANY muslims in America, and they all follow Islam and U.S. Law. But I guess they aren't muslims either? You keep ignoring what I bring up about the 5 Pillars. That is the basis of Islam. That is what determines if somebody is a muslim or not...not what you approve/disapprove of, or what you think. I AM a muslim. Say whatever you want next, but your just going to be wasting your time. I'm not going to respond, and you think whatever you want. You can accuse me of being in the KKK for all I care. I was already wrong for wasting my time on such a useless discussion with you.

[Asif22]

Originally Posted by Proven

It a shame peoples minds aren't broad enough to help them understand that if a small group within a larger group does something evil it doesn't mean everyone within the main group is evil. Its like the education they got in pre-school was all they needed in life (red = apple).

EVERY religion has evil within, even Christian, sht, some will even argue that certain Christians are responsible for more innocent lives taken then any other group, and rightfully so!. Of course these particular Christians feel as if they are doing gods work when killing and they deserved it.. Wait? Sounds familiar?

All Christians aren't bad
All Muslims aren't bad
All Republicans and Democrats aren't bad
All Catholic priest don't molest kids

Stop making things easier for yourself to comprehend by grouping people together as a whole. The best way for us to make this Country safer is to get rid of the these fools by showing we have no tolerance for the intolerant.

I agree with everything you said in this post, especially the bolded part. Very well put.

[ITSTOCK]

I don't really know what is hard to understand. Out of all of the major organized religions, none are anywhere in comparison to the violence, brutality, and inequality of Islam. I mean, you really think that women should cover up in public? And you believe in honor killings? Forcing your wife to have sex even if she does not want to? Not following any rule or law other than Gods law? What do you think about me believing that there are, or could be multiple Gods? Don't sit hear and pretend that Sharia law is peaceful. And again, I strongly make this point, it has no place in Western culture. It goes against our legal system in just about every single way. If you follow Sharia law, you don't respect, and shouldn't follow the laws of the United States.

If you didn't follow Sharia law, it meant that you chose to hopefully ignore the parts that are so outdated. I was honestly expecting you to say that you don't follow it, but you have now made it clear that you do.

It's funny how we have to, and are, for the most part, tolerant to one of the most intolerant organizations present in modern day living.

[ITSTOCK]

Originally Posted by Asif22

I agree with everything you said in this post, especially the bolded part. Very well put.

It seems that you have a lot to learn about Islam.

[Proven]

Originally Posted by ITSTOCK

Other than the original sticker, nobody said otherwise. I'm sure Asif is a nice guy, it doesn't mean that I can't disagree with what they are taught. I'm not telling him to not practice anything, but it is my opinion that the Islamic religion is seriously outdated. There are plenty of nice drug users out there, doesn't mean I approve of their way of life. It doesn't matter either.

All religion is seriously outdated along with ANYTHING written hundreds and thousands of years ago. As I'm sure you know the Bible (just like the Qua'ran / Koran) also has a lot of evil and injustice within. Both degrade women, both allow sacrifice, etc etc.. Christians are excepted here for the most part because we see nothing but the conservative followers (conservative in the sense they don't live by the bible word for word - not political conserv.) What we see here in the states about Islam on the news is nothing but the extreme (the word for word fools).

I think its VERY safe to say that your back and forth with Asif is based on you debating against the extreme and him debating for the conservative. Your both right!

[rodder]

Originally Posted by Proven

AllAs I'm sure you know the Bible (just like the Qua'ran / Koran) also has a lot of evil and injustice within. Both degrade women, both allow sacrifice, etc etc..

Incorrect, as usual.

The Old Testament contains some violent passages, but evil and injustice it does not. Nor does it degrade women. As a matter of fact the New Testament does exactly the opposite. As for sacrifice and the other violence contained in the OT, the difference between those old, antiquated passages in the Old Testament of the Hebrew Bible and the similar passages in the Quran, is that the death of Jesus in the New Testament releases Christians from Levitican law. Islam and the Quran have no such rejection of old law.

Will you please stop making comments about subjects you have no or very little knowledge about?

Christians are *accepted* because they are not commanded to subjugate their women or complete honor killings, to name just a couple reasons. There is absolutely nothing even close in the New Testament to the type of violence and oppression commanded by the Quran and Sharia Law.

[Asif22]

Originally Posted by rodder

Incorrect, as usual.

The Old Testament contains some violent passages, but evil and injustice it does not. Nor does it degrade women. As a matter of fact the New Testament does exactly the opposite. As for sacrifice and the other violence contained in the OT, the difference between those old, antiquated passages in the Old Testament of the Hebrew Bible and the similar passages in the Quran, is that the death of Jesus in the New Testament releases Christians from Levitican law. Islam and the Quran have no such rejection of old law.

Will you please stop making comments about subjects you have no or very little knowledge about?

Christians are *accepted* because they are not commanded to subjugate their women or complete honor killings, to name just a couple reasons. There is absolutely nothing even close in the New Testament to the type of violence and oppression commanded by the Quran and Sharia Law.

You were the one who told the other member it was a discussion and to relax. He was just stating his opinion. No reason to jump down his throat. I think you are the one who doesn't know what he is talking about. But I'm not saying "please don't comment" This is a thread after all. People are allowed to comment.

Anyway, he is right I found some violence in the Bible. I don't know much about it, but who wrote the new Testament?

Also, the honor killings....That mostly takes place in the middle east. I read many stories about it, and it sickens me. I don't see how people justify this in any way. Islam DOES NOT teach you to kill people for a small thing like that.


"Whoever chooses to follow the right path, follows it but for his own good; and whoever goes astray, goes but astray to his own hurt; and no bearer of burdens shall be made to bear another’s burden" (17:15)

The above basically means who ever doesn't follow, doesn't follow....Just leave it be.

Look at how many muslims live around the world. They are all respectable members of society and Islam is a serious part of their lives. There is no "honor killings" ect going on in their house holds. Notice this doesn't really happen in America? It is because middle eastern governments allow it, or give a light sentence. Some middle eastern countires de value women And I don't agree with that at all. But it is not a part of Islam.

Out of curiosity, what part of the Quran leads you to believe Islam accepts this type of thing?

I noticed another member tried to make Islam seem like some oppressive religion because it wants women to wear the hijab(cover up). What is so bad about that? If you have a daughter, would you let her out of the house half naked? Nope. Maybe not to the extend of the hijab but the idea is still there. When you wear less clothing, the more eyes are on you. Sometimes its the wrong eyes. And that can lead to wrong things. Catch my drift. I think its smart. But if somebody doesn't agree with that....Thats fine with me! Everyone can do what he or she believes. In Islam we are not instructed to do things to people who don't follow. But what we are allowed to do is fight for out religion. The same way any army fights for its country. Nothing wrong with that. We are not to judge people, that is God's job.

[Proven]

Originally Posted by rodder

Incorrect, as usual.

The Old Testament contains some violent passages, but evil and injustice it does not.Nor does it degrade women. As a matter of fact the New Testament does exactly the opposite. As for sacrifice and the other violence contained in the OT, the difference between those old, antiquated passages in the Old Testament of the Hebrew Bible and the similar passages in the Quran, is that the death of Jesus in the New Testament releases Christians from Levitican law. Islam and the Quran have no such rejection of old law.

Will you please stop making comments about subjects you have no or very little knowledge about?

Christians are *accepted* because they are not commanded to subjugate their women or complete honor killings, to name just a couple reasons. There is absolutely nothing even close in the New Testament to the type of violence and oppression commanded by the Quran and Sharia Law.

http://www.biblestudytools.com/nlt/leviticus/21-9.html

http://www.biblestudytools.com/asv/e...exodus+21:7-11

You should contact that website and have them rewrite the bible again.. It still has some evil in it. Regardless of whats written OBVIOUSLY most Christians are peaceful people and that's what should be held onto. Same goes for Muslims! The real problem IMO with Islam isn't necessarily the book, it's the nut jobs living by it word for word and using it a means to their personal evils. I do agree it should be rewritten and certain laws should be rejected. Unfortunately that won't happen because if it did those same nut jobs would kill everyone involved.

[Asif22]

In the past few days I'v been trying to do more research and outside of war I can't really find any part of the Quran telling muslims to to fight. Back when this was written Islam was also being oppressed too. I think the nut jobs are just pissed off for w/e reason and using the Quran as an excuse. I'm not too familar with the KKK but they were catholic right? But I obviously know what they do has no reference to the Bible. Hitler was a catholic and attended church as a kid. How many people did he kill? That doesn't mean catholics believe in "eithnic cleansing" There are many muslims right here in America who follow the Quran very strictly. They aren't out killing people. The thing I don't see why people keep bringing up in the honor killings? I have found to evidence in the Quran that promotes that.

[Fujito]

Well Rodder is technically right about the New Testament. The books from Matthew on depict a peaceful forgiving God, and the letters from the apostles to the congregations discuss ways to convert pagans into believers through peaceful means.

That is one of my main problems with Christianity in general though. The two parts describe completely different Gods that contradict each other, among other contradictions. The Old Testament portrays Yahweh--the Hebrew God--as a war mongering, jealous, revengeful God.

The question is should religion conform to the times, or should the times conform to religion? If there is a God does he think it's ok for people to change their habits and become more lax over the centuries just because the world is going in that direction? Should the Church be more accepting to things such as homosexuality, fornication, adultery, etc? And likewise should Islam change their practices just to be more "humane"?

[ndubz]

It is not Islam that makes people into terrorists. In the same way that Christianity alone did not make men into crusaders. The same **** has been going on since man has been around. Religion is an easy, unifying force which can easily be shaped and pitched to people by those in power to work toward an agenda. It happens with most religions at some point (or all points lol). The term "terrorists" is completely relative to who ur talking to, and the definition of terrorism has changed over time. Our founding fathers were considered "terrorists" by the British back during our revolution, the sort of guerilla warfare we used was quite unorthodox at a time when battles were fought like chess games, just as much as suicide bombers are to us today.

And let put it this way, on 9/11 we all got a taste of the fear that much of the rest of the world has for us. We are still by far the scariest force on the planet. They can send a little girl into a market with strapped with a bomb...yea.....and we can deliver a nuclear strike with our planes that cannot be detected without warning anywhere on earth and level an entire city in one instant. Who is really the scary ones here? C'mon people. And what about all those cruise missiles that "go off course" and just happen to hit a school or a hospital....u think that is always an accident?.....guess again. In reality we are no better than they are in the way we fight a war, we just have alot of technology whereas they have no other means to even combat us except for "terrorism"

O and the whole "War on Terror" is a bunch of horse****. Terrorism is a tactic of war.....you cannot fight a war against a method of action because it is intangible. We also employ many tactics that those on the other end would consider terrorism, so once again we are hypocrites. The fear mongering succeeded brilliantly, and those who incited it, and continue to, made/make a ****load of money off of it. Remember the shoe bomber?......Im gonna say it right now, he would have been less successful if he had just blown up the plane, because now everyone on earth needs to take their shoes off (a hassle) at the airport, it really would be better for us all if he had just succeeded.

9/11 sucked, yea. but we are lucky here because that is an isolated event. In many parts of the world, such attacks are a daily occurrence that people must learn to live with every ****ing day. But of course most of us dont take the time to consider that. I still know people who wont fly because of 9/11, and it pisses me off because that is the fear our enemies wanted us to have, and so long as we let it interfere in our lives AT ALL, they have succeeded.

This post wound up not really being about Islam, but thats kinda the point. This conflict is not about religion at all. Its about the same old fight for power, resources, and money as every other ****ing war has been about. Say you're fighting for whoever, it doesnt matter. Our fears of Islam are misguided and misbranded. It is not with Islam we have our issues, wars have been fought under the flag of religion for centuries, this is no different.

[R22B]

Pro Tip: People who kill, pillage, and terrorize in the name of religion aren't religious. If they actually read and practice what their bible reads, they wouldn't do the **** they do.

The problem isn't religion. Its the idiots that use it as a front to power their alternate agenda.

[bastid]

Originally Posted by Asif22

In the past few days I'v been trying to do more research and outside of war I can't really find any part of the Quran telling muslims to to fight.

Maybe if you didn't ignore my last reply to you in another thread you'd know where to start, chapter and verse:

Originally Posted by bastid

I'm not posting this because I believe all Muslims look at this as inciting them to violence. I think this kind of language does incite violence for a percentage of Muslims.

Qur'an (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."

Qur'an (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority."

Qur'an (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

Qur'an (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"

Qur'an (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Qur'an (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Qur'an (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah"

[d16hatch]

Originally Posted by Fujito

Well Rodder is technically right about the New Testament. The books from Matthew on depict a peaceful forgiving God, and the letters from the apostles to the congregations discuss ways to convert pagans into believers through peaceful means.

That is one of my main problems with Christianity in general though. The two parts describe completely different Gods that contradict each other, among other contradictions. The Old Testament portrays Yahweh--the Hebrew God--as a war mongering, jealous, revengeful God.

The question is should religion conform to the times, or should the times conform to religion? If there is a God does he think it's ok for people to change their habits and become more lax over the centuries just because the world is going in that direction? Should the Church be more accepting to things such as homosexuality, fornication, adultery, etc? And likewise should Islam change their practices just to be more "humane"?

You should probably get to know the OT and NT a little more and see that they have no contradiction whatsoever. The truth you are neglecting is dispensationalism. The 3 basic dispensations are Law, Grace, and Kingdom (though there are 7-8 depending on your view of Genesis 9-11). OT was the dispensation of Law where those were bound under the law and everything was judged accordingly. All things were very physical in that dispensation, including sacrifices (payment for sin). The temple was a physical place and God's remedy for sin was physical animal sacrificing (which was just a foreshadow of Christ). From the birth of the New Testament Church (the day of Pentecost) until the Rapture, is the dispensation of Grace. God deals in a completely different way then He did in the NT, to which you should be pretty thankful.

Salvation in the NT is by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9). The two characters of God do not conflict but fit perfectly. A righteous God who sent His son to die for sin so that the sinner can be forgiven, the sin can be punished, and God can remain completely holy. That is grace and mercy. Read Revelation if you want to get a picture of the eradication of sin from the earth and see a righteous God's wrath on a sinful world. The period of grace will end.


I agree with your second point. The time doesn't change the infallible and timeless Word of God. At the same time, we are not bound by the law, which is why Christ came. Show me another book where the creator came and died for his own creation. Every other religion in the world is all about "do what you can to get to 'heaven'". The message of the Bible is unique. I did nothing but will be in heaven when I die. I'm glad the message doesn't change. The message was the same in the OT as it is in the NT. Christ is all over the OT!

To apply this to the topic of the thread...

True Christianity (I am non-denominational) is the most unique message in the world. Islam is in no way similar and requires you to do things to obtain forgiveness. Radical Muslims believe they are doing their "due service" and will obtain a place in paradise for their sacrifice. Christianity has no such belief or teaching that could even be misconstrued as being such.

[Asif22]

Originally Posted by R22B

Pro Tip: People who kill, pillage, and terrorize in the name of religion aren't religious. If they actually read and practice what their bible reads, they wouldn't do the **** they do.

The problem isn't religion. Its the idiots that use it as a front to power their alternate agenda.

Thank you.

Originally Posted by bastid

Maybe if you didn't ignore my last reply to you in another thread you'd know where to start, chapter and verse:

Other thread?

Coming off a little hostile eh? I didn't "ignore" your post. Anyway, did you get this off google? Somebody posted up the same verses in this thread a few pages back. I replied to all of them, go take a look if you want.
This IS referring to war and struggle when people are trying to oppress you and take your religion from you. Yes it's graphic but it's realistic and thats what war is. All those are tied together. It's basically saying don't let anyone take your religion from you. Back in the old days when Islam was getting started, people hated on it hardcore. And there was a lot of things being done to muslims.

No matter how anyone tries to cut it, Islam DOES NOT instruct you to kill people simply because they don't believe.

[Asif22]

Originally Posted by d16hatch

You should probably get to know the OT and NT a little more and see that they have no contradiction whatsoever. The truth you are neglecting is dispensationalism. The 3 basic dispensations are Law, Grace, and Kingdom (though there are 7-8 depending on your view of Genesis 9-11). OT was the dispensation of Law where those were bound under the law and everything was judged accordingly. All things were very physical in that dispensation, including sacrifices (payment for sin). The temple was a physical place and God's remedy for sin was physical animal sacrificing (which was just a foreshadow of Christ). From the birth of the New Testament Church (the day of Pentecost) until the Rapture, is the dispensation of Grace. God deals in a completely different way then He did in the NT, to which you should be pretty thankful.

Salvation in the NT is by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9). The two characters of God do not conflict but fit perfectly. A righteous God who sent His son to die for sin so that the sinner can be forgiven, the sin can be punished, and God can remain completely holy. That is grace and mercy. Read Revelation if you want to get a picture of the eradication of sin from the earth and see a righteous God's wrath on a sinful world. The period of grace will end.


I agree with your second point. The time doesn't change the infallible and timeless Word of God. At the same time, we are not bound by the law, which is why Christ came. Show me another book where the creator came and died for his own creation. Every other religion in the world is all about "do what you can to get to 'heaven'". The message of the Bible is unique. I did nothing but will be in heaven when I die. I'm glad the message doesn't change. The message was the same in the OT as it is in the NT. Christ is all over the OT!

To apply this to the topic of the thread...

True Christianity (I am non-denominational) is the most unique message in the world. Islam is in no way similar and requires you to do things to obtain forgiveness. Radical Muslims believe they are doing their "due service" and will obtain a place in paradise for their sacrifice. Christianity has no such belief or teaching that could even be misconstrued as being such.

Yes, Islam has requirements. The 5 pillars for example.

Believing in one God
Praying 5 times a day
Fasting for Ramadan
Pilgrimage to Mecca if possible
And helping the poor

Yes you do have to do things. But you don't have to be forgiven for things you didn't do, although nobody is perfect. Thats where prayer,fast, and mecca also helps...If you are truly sorry for a sin, it is believed you will be forgiven.

But in any religion, you are required to do things right?

Anyway, some members contributed some good info, while others certainly did not.(This isn't directed to you BTW). This thread was about America's view on Islam. I am American and muslim, what what I posted in this thread is my view. One member went completely off topic and tried to accuse me of not being muslim. Others are trying to say in implies violence for no reason which is not true. It is referring to war, and how to fight in war. Many practicing muslims live in America. They are doctors, lawyers, ect. They follow Islam and are not out slaying people who don't believe. That is not the message of Islam. If anyone thinks it is, you can think it. It's a free country, I don't really care, but I suggest you do some more research. I'm done with this thread. It's going nowhere.

[mx931]

theres no way to win a religious debate why cant we all be friends?