Americans & their views on Islam

[ITSTOCK]

Originally Posted by Asif22

Rape? When is that ok?

You said this a million times...I am cutting out parts of Islam to make it convenient for me. Which part am I cutting out? You make no sense. Everything I know, I follow.

It is okay to rape your wives if they refuse sex. There have even been lots of trials right here in the US. Sharia law, though argued, was not upheld .

[nuTinmuch]

This is a public forum nuTinmuch, we are having a discussion. If you don't like it, feel free to leave the thread. Otherwise, maybe you can add something constructive instead of trolling and acting like you know better than everyone else.

I am taking part in the conversation, I'm just taking it to a place you disagree with. Whoops!

I think nuTinmuch is attempting to paint you as an Israeli sympathizer. It's actually quite telling that he picked a single sentence of yours and said it was all he needed to hear. He assumed you support Israel and apparently that automatically invalidates any other points you might make.

The truth is, both sides of the Palestine/Israel conflict have done some seriously bad ****. But of course that's not the topic here.

Which is why there was a response directly after that discussing his other points? Right? No? Didn't you just do the very thing you accused me of doing?

Likewise, (not to tangent) but I don't "support" either side. I just found the wording of the statement (and the place of it) incredibly amusing, considering what we were talking about in the thread.

I also don't know why nuTinmuch believes only scholars can understand and debate religious texts

I don't state that only scholars can debate and understand religious texts, but I don't think you should go around acting as if you understand a text, using it as incriminating evidence against a believer of that text.

It's the same thing as walking up to someone who owns X brand of car, lecturing them on some component within it. Sure, you might be making a good point, but you are probably misinformed, or not as informed as the person owning the car.

I have no problem when people interested in cars talk about them. It's when someone starts talking about extreme specifics that they don't understand, and they proceed to extrapolate all kinds of things from it -- and then they use that as their evidence.

I'm not trying to say "heh, look at me, watching over these plebeians" or something, and I apologize if you took it that way.

My point and entire problem with the argument, is this:

Sharia law is the rule of Islam. Sharia law is Islam. In order to be a Muslim, you must follow Sharia law.

This is not as cut and dry as you make it out to be. That is all I'm saying.

"In the 19th century, many Muslim countries came under the control or influence of Western colonial powers. As a result, Western-style laws, courts, and punishments began to appear within the Sharia. Some countries like Turkey totally abandoned the Sharia and adopted new law codes based on European systems...Modern legislation along with Muslim legal scholars who are attempting to relate the will of Allah to the 20th century have reopened the door to interpreting the Sharia. This has happened even in highly traditional Saudi Arabia..." http://www.religioustolerance.org/isl_adul2.htm

He probably should have stopped that train of thought when I made it clear that organized religion is retarded.

For the record, so do I.

I don't like Islam, and I think strict adherence to any moral religious code without question is silly -- and I would not be part of any religion that does not support personal evaluation of text.

[Asif22]

Originally Posted by ITSTOCK

Such is your right. I believe that organized religion offers a good support group network. I believe in God/Gods/etc. I am a religious person, I just don't adhere to any single religion although I was raised Catholic. I am a non-practicing Catholic.



Sharia law is the rule of Islam. Sharia law is Islam. In order to be a Muslim, you must follow Sharia law.

I don't know why you don't comprehend this. It is not a moral code (well it is in that moral code is part of Sharia law, but it is much more). It is what makes one a Muslim. If you don't follow Sharia law, you are not a Muslim.

Understand? That's not my interpretation. It is the interpretation of the Islamic religion. The Quran is the final word. Period.



I don't believe that was ever implied in this thread. However, there are plenty of well educated (Western, might I add), well funded, and very much free jihadists who disagree with you on that point.



So it is Americas fault for 9/11. Got it, and Bin-Laden agrees with you. I suppose you welcome more of these attacks? Pathetic.

According to your logic... you aren't religious since you don't follow a religion. Since you don't practice Catholicism, you are not a Catholic.

[lifeinacave]

I think that practicing educated Muslims are great, I work side by side with them in the medical community. They are very respectful and kind loving people dealing with everyday discrimination because of typical stereotypes. When I was in the Marines I met the exact opposite Muslim an uneducated brain washed, American hating assh*oles that deserved every bullet that riddled there bodies. They bully there own if they don't share the same political views. Islam is like any other religion that can destroy the minds of there followers with an eccentric leader. All religions have a dark side. All religions have so called followers that don't respect the true meaning of it.

[vdcoff]

Originally Posted by Fujito

What's the point? Most Christians haven't even read the Bible. They just begin to say "I believe in Jebus" blah blah "faith" blah blah "penis" blah. And I don't know anything about cars to have an intelligent discussion about them.

fixed

[Asif22]

Originally Posted by lifeinacave

I think that practicing educated Muslims are great, I work side by side with them in the medical community. They are very respectful and kind loving people dealing with everyday discrimination because of typical stereotypes. When I was in the Marines I met the exact opposite Muslim an uneducated brain washed, American hating assh*oles that deserved every bullet that riddled there bodies. They bully there own if they don't share the same political views. Islam is like any other religion that can destroy the minds of there followers with an eccentric leader. All religions have a dark side. All religions have so called followers that don't respect the true meaning of it.

Well said man, thanks for your input.

[Asif22]

Delete

[Asif22]

Originally Posted by ITSTOCK

It is okay to rape your wives if they refuse sex. There have even been lots of trials right here in the US. Sharia law, though argued, was not upheld .

You still didn't name which parts of Islam I cut out to make it easier for me.

[Khellen]

Originally Posted by ITSTOCK

Sharia law is the rule of Islam. Sharia law is Islam. In order to be a Muslim, you must follow Sharia law.

I don't know why you don't comprehend this. It is not a moral code (well it is in that moral code is part of Sharia law, but it is much more). It is what makes one a Muslim. If you don't follow Sharia law, you are not a Muslim.

Understand? That's not my interpretation. It is the interpretation of the Islamic religion. The Quran is the final word. Period.

Does that make them non-praciticing muslims? haha

I don't see how it's any different then you being a non-praciticing catholic.

Originally Posted by ITSTOCK

I don't believe that was ever implied in this thread.

People were inferring that Islam promotes being an extremist by quoting the kuran....so yes, it was implied in the thread.

Originally Posted by ITSTOCK

However, there are plenty of well educated (Western, might I add), well funded, and very much free jihadists who disagree with you on that point.

Maybe my post was a bit obscure. It was in reference to suicide bombers and people willing to give their lives for their religion. How many of them do you suppose are rich and powerful? Not many is my guess.

Originally Posted by ITSTOCK

So it is Americas fault for 9/11. Got it, and Bin-Laden agrees with you. I suppose you welcome more of these attacks? Pathetic.

I never said that. It is just common sense whenever you occupy a foreign country their is always going to be some fear of reprisal. Not everyone is going to want you to be there. Especially if you're forcing your culture on them. That's just reality. It has nothing to do with their religion.

How is blaming a whole group of religious people any different then the nazis blaming the jews for a poor German economy? It honestly sounds like the only leg you have to stand on in this argument is the references to violence in a book that is thousands of years old.

[Asif22]

Originally Posted by Khellen

Does that make them non-praciticing muslims? haha

I don't see how it's any different then you being a non-praciticing catholic.



People were inferring that Islam promotes being an extremist by quoting the kuran....so yes, it was implied in the thread.



Maybe my post was a bit obscure. It was in reference to suicide bombers and people willing to give their lives for their religion. How many of them do you suppose are rich and powerful? Not many is my guess.



I never said that. It is just common sense whenever you occupy a foreign country their is always going to be some fear of reprisal. Not everyone is going to want you to be there. Especially if you're forcing your culture on them. That's just reality. It has nothing to do with their religion.

How is blaming a whole group of religious people any different then the nazis blaming the jews for a poor German economy? It honestly sounds like the only leg you have to stand on in this argument is the references to violence in a book that is thousands of years old.

Thank you. I'm glad somebody else sees this. Apparently, I am not a muslim according to his skewed logic.

[Proven]

It a shame peoples minds aren't broad enough to help them understand that if a small group within a larger group does something evil it doesn't mean everyone within the main group is evil. Its like the education they got in pre-school was all they needed in life (red = apple).

EVERY religion has evil within, even Christian, sht, some will even argue that certain Christians are responsible for more innocent lives taken then any other group, and rightfully so!. Of course these particular Christians feel as if they are doing gods work when killing and they deserved it.. Wait? Sounds familiar?

All Christians aren't bad
All Muslims aren't bad
All Republicans and Democrats aren't bad
All Catholic priest don't molest kids

Stop making things easier for yourself to comprehend by grouping people together as a whole. The best way for us to make this Country safer is to get rid of the these fools by showing we have no tolerance for the intolerant.

[ITSTOCK]

Originally Posted by Asif22

According to your logic... you aren't religious since you don't follow a religion. Since you don't practice Catholicism, you are not a Catholic.

That's pretty much my point.

[ITSTOCK]

Originally Posted by Proven

It a shame peoples minds aren't broad enough to help them understand that if a small group within a larger group does something evil it doesn't mean everyone within the main group is evil. Its like the education they got in pre-school was all they needed in life (red = apple).

EVERY religion has evil within, even Christian, sht, some will even argue that certain Christians are responsible for more innocent lives taken then any other group, and rightfully so!. Of course these particular Christians feel as if they are doing gods work when killing and they deserved it.. Wait? Sounds familiar?

All Christians aren't bad
All Muslims aren't bad
All Republicans and Democrats aren't bad
All Catholic priest don't molest kids

Stop making things easier for yourself to comprehend by grouping people together as a whole. The best way for us to make this Country safer is to get rid of the these fools by showing we have no tolerance for the intolerant.

Other than the original sticker, nobody said otherwise. I'm sure Asif is a nice guy, it doesn't mean that I can't disagree with what they are taught. I'm not telling him to not practice anything, but it is my opinion that the Islamic religion is seriously outdated. There are plenty of nice drug users out there, doesn't mean I approve of their way of life. It doesn't matter either.

[Nick Merrone]

Originally Posted by rodder

Is that fez from that 70 show?

[ITSTOCK]

Originally Posted by Khellen

Does that make them non-praciticing muslims? haha

I don't see how it's any different then you being a non-praciticing catholic.

Which was my point. I am called a non-practicing Catholic. I was raised/baptized catholic, went to catholic school. I do NOT practice the religion. As I said, I don't consider myself a catholic, and thus would never pretend to be one (or roughly said that, you can find it in this thread, as i'm sure you already quoted it).

People were inferring that Islam promotes being an extremist by quoting the kuran....so yes, it was implied in the thread.

Well, that is how many Americans view Muslim people. I skipped over the quotes do to Asifs inherent interpretations.

Maybe my post was a bit obscure. It was in reference to suicide bombers and people willing to give their lives for their religion. How many of them do you suppose are rich and powerful? Not many is my guess.

What is "rich and powerful" to you? I can prove your first point very much so wrong. Depending on "rich and powerful", I might be able to do the same. Is rich anyone that makes over $250k? Or is it a couple million? What about powerful? Do they command 100 people below them? "Rich and powerful" is a bit vague. "Oppression, poverty, and lack of education" is very simple and I am free to point out many people who took up Jihad against westerners.

I never said that. It is just common sense whenever you occupy a foreign country their is always going to be some fear of reprisal. Not everyone is going to want you to be there. Especially if you're forcing your culture on them. That's just reality. It has nothing to do with their religion.

My interpretation of what you say is that "we have it coming". Based on what you just said, that is still my interpretation. What you fail to realize is that just decades before, our presence in the Middle East was begged for, and welcomed.

How is blaming a whole group of religious people any different then the nazis blaming the jews for a poor German economy? It honestly sounds like the only leg you have to stand on in this argument is the references to violence in a book that is thousands of years old.

I don't blame a whole group for killing innocent people. It's quite obvious the guy with the ugly truck and stupid stickers does though. As if we didn't already know it, yea, he is an idiot. Americans, as we already know, have more supported negative views based on Islam do to plenty of other reasons.

Originally Posted by Nick Merrone

Is that fez from that 70 show?

In the red jacket? I think you might be on to something...

[ITSTOCK]

Originally Posted by Asif22

Thank you. I'm glad somebody else sees this. Apparently, I am not a muslim according to his skewed logic.

You are no more of a Muslim than I a Catholic, which is exactly what I have stated over and over. I don't know how that is confusing to you.

[ITSTOCK]

Originally Posted by Asif22

According to your logic... you aren't religious since you don't follow a religion. Since you don't practice Catholicism, you are not a Catholic.

Religion is the belief in a God/Gods. I believe in superhuman powers, whether it is Allah, Jesus, Buddha, or all of them hanging out together. I don't believe in organized religion, where laws and rules are dictated, and apparently freely interpreted to be taken however one may. I belong to the church of Itstock, one strong, and it will stay that way. You are free to have your own as well.

I agree that I am not a Catholic, thus why I would never pretend to be one. However, I was raised and baptized as such, so I am a non-practicing Catholic.

[Nick Merrone]

Originally Posted by ITSTOCK

Which was my point. I am called a non-practicing Catholic. I was raised/baptized catholic, went to catholic school. I do NOT practice the religion. As I said, I don't consider myself a catholic, and thus would never pretend to be one (or roughly said that, you can find it in this thread, as i'm sure you already quoted it).



Well, that is how many Americans view Muslim people. I skipped over the quotes of the Quran do to Asifs inherent interpretations.





What is "rich and powerful" to you? I can prove your first point very much so wrong. Depending on "rich and powerful", I might be able to do the same. Is rich anyone that makes over $250k? Or is it a couple million? What about powerful? Do they command 100 people below them? "Rich and powerful" is a bit vague. "Oppression, poverty, and lack of education" is very simple and I am free to point out many people who took up Jihad against westerners.





My interpretation of what you say is that "we have it coming". Based on what you just said, that is still my interpretation. What you fail to realize is that just decades before, our presence in the Middle East was begged for, and welcomed.





In the red jacket? I think you might be on to something...
I don't blame a whole group for killing innocent people. It's quite obvious the guy with the ugly truck and stupid stickers does though. As if we didn't already know it, yea, he is an idiot. Americans, as we already know, have more supported negative views based on Islam do to plenty of other reasons.

We have to investigate further..

[Asif22]

Originally Posted by ITSTOCK

You are no more of a Muslim than I a Catholic, which is exactly what I have stated over and over. I don't know how that is confusing to you.

Over and over I have stated...prove it. Since you know so much about me, what part of Islam do I cut out to make it easier for me? I asked you that question I don't know how many times.

They key parts to being a muslim are following the 5 Pillars. You are suppose to try to follow everything else the best you can. If you mess up or sin, it doesn't mean you are not a muslim.

[Asif22]

Originally Posted by ITSTOCK

Religion is the belief in a God/Gods. I believe in superhuman powers, whether it is Allah, Jesus, Buddha, or all of them hanging out together. I don't believe in organized religion, where laws and rules are dictated, and apparently freely interpreted to be taken however one may. I belong to the church of Itstock, one strong, and it will stay that way. You are free to have your own as well.

I agree that I am not a Catholic, thus why I would never pretend to be one. However, I was raised and baptized as such, so I am a non-practicing Catholic.

Yes, because you don't practice. I practice, what makes you think that I don't?