Undercover Police cars

[97TurboDSM]

an entire thread of lulz just from one person. im astounded at how big an idiot 420sx is. wow.

[Mr.Crx]

Originally Posted by i_ride_fieroGT

I'm not defending anyone. Personaly i think anyone dumb enough to take off during this situation is retarded but, there is a certan order and way that things are done in order to catch someone doing somthing wrong. A cop cannot assume your selling drugs walk into your house without a warrent/your consent slap the cuffs on you and tug you off to jail. Thus an officer of the law should not and by laws of entrapment cannot legaly bait you into racing them by being the 1st perp to tailgate speed flash lights etc etc and when you follow suit they ticket you... As i stated this is entrapment. The story you are talking about is takinf place up in ontario canada where there laws and regulations are a lot diffrent than down here and they might be able to do that but within USA borders its entrapment. I dont even know what im explaning myself to you im surprised you dont already know this

First I realize it's in Canada, I posted it, I read it, I think I even mentioned it in the thread, so I am aware of it..
I also realize there needs to be order, but there is a line and you're basically excusing ppl for not having the sense to know right from wrong and NOT react to it!

Some ppl, all it takes is a little rev to get them going anyway...

[97TurboDSM]

hey fiero, you're wrong. i'll post it again since you obviously missed it. read the first sentence in the second paragraph. http://www.lectlaw.com/def/e024.htm

[420sx]

Originally Posted by 97TurboDSM

an entire thread of lulz just from one person. im astounded at how big an idiot 420sx is. wow.

Im not even gonna bother with this one.

[420sx]

Originally Posted by 97TurboDSM

hey fiero, you're wrong. i'll post it again since you obviously missed it. read the first sentence in the second paragraph. http://www.lectlaw.com/def/e024.htm

Maybe you missed this part...

"On the other hand, if the evidence leaves a reasonable doubt whether the person had any intent to commit the crime except for inducement or persuasion on the part of some Government officer or agent, then the person is not guilty. "

[i_ride_fieroGT]

Originally Posted by Mr.Crx

First I realize it's in Canada, I posted it, I read it, I think I even mentioned it in the thread, so I am aware of it..
I also realize there needs to be order, but there is a line and you're basically excusing ppl for not having the sense to know right from wrong and NOT react to it!

Some ppl, all it takes is a little rev to get them going anyway...

Again i never siad i condone illegal racing but whast your story is here in the US is entrapment. And its not up to the police to go out and provoke people to street race. Its there duty to stop them in the act of doing it. There is a line to it as you state and the line starts at our constitutional rights writtin by our earley leaders. People have the ability to do stupied things. But a cop not directley seeing it cannot just assume you did it or are going to do it and provoke you to race. Beleave me i know traffic laws and a lot of other laws inside and out your fighting a losing argument.


Im surprised a lot of people dont know this stuff. Hell its up to you to protect your rights. The courts and the cops arnt going to and if you dont use your rights cops and the courts are going to use it aganst you and put you in a hole you shouldent ahve been put in in the 1st place.

[i_ride_fieroGT]

Originally Posted by 97TurboDSM

hey fiero, you're wrong. i'll post it again since you obviously missed it. read the first sentence in the second paragraph. http://www.lectlaw.com/def/e024.htm

Your whole explantation there was the definition but here is what all that menas
And you majorley missed the part in the deffinition that is in bold
---------------------------------------------------------------------

ENTRAPMENT
A person is 'entrapped' when he is induced or persuaded by law enforcement officers or their agents to commit a crime that he had no previous intent to commit; and the law as a matter of policy forbids conviction in such a case.

However, there is no entrapment where a person is ready and willing to break the law and the Government agents merely provide what appears to be a favorable opportunity for the person to commit the crime. For example, it is not entrapment for a Government agent to pretend to be someone else and to offer, either directly or through an informer or other decoy, to engage in an unlawful transaction with the person. So, a person would not be a victim of entrapment if the person was ready, willing and able to commit the crime charged in the indictment whenever opportunity was afforded, and that Government officers or their agents did no more than offer an opportunity.

On the other hand, if the evidence leaves a reasonable doubt whether the person had any intent to commit the crime except for inducement or persuasion on the part of some Government officer or agent, then the person is not guilty.

In slightly different words: Even though someone may have [sold drugs], as charged by the government, if it was the result of entrapment then he is not guilty. Government agents entrapped him if three things occurred:

- First, the idea for committing the crime came from the government agents and not from the person accused of the crime. (Speeding and tailgating a slected individual is the the officers idea to provoke a street race)

- Second, the government agents then persuaded or talked the person into committing the crime. Simply giving him the opportunity to commit the crime is not the same as persuading him to commit the crime. (Speeding and tailgating etc is an officer pursuading someone to street race in this case)

- And third, the person was not ready and willing to commit the crime before the government agents spoke with him.

On the issue of entrapment the government must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant was not entrapped by government agents.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Your deffinition here is explaning the law's deffinition of entrapment not the subsection of the law. Entrapment goes along very well with profiling. Your deffinition is that an officer can use entrapment when there is sufficiant enough evidence that the perp is going to without any dought commit the crime. Lets say the crim is a major drug deal or they hear someone wants to make a deal. That in itself is supporting enough evidence to use this tactic to grab a perk. So they dress up in there street gear go to the meeting spot ready to make the deal get it on camra and nab the perk . Deal goes through they get it in camera and wittneses and than the slap on the cuffs and haul the perk off to jail. In no way during this are the officers instagating or provoking the deal the deal. Also if the perk does not have the drugs on them they have to get them to amdit what they have. No slang or street talk they have to get them to openley admit they have coke or whatever it is there selling before they can nab them.

Now if your on the street driving

Say your on the street driving doing thr speed limit in a modded car and you get this WRX speeding up behind you tailgating you honking its horn flashing its lights speeding up slowing down. The cop is the one breaking the law by trying to instagate/provoke a street race and is also the one putting another driver in danger. So you (person in thew other car) speed off like an idiot cop throws up the lights and pulls you over.. The officer was the one doing the instagating/provoking and also had no prior evidence that you were going to street race him and the officer was the 1st one in this story to break the law and put himself and other drivers in danger. This is entrapment.

Same secenareo but diffrent case. Your driving along in a modded car A WRX pulls up next to you going the speed limmit not doing anything wrong and you decide to get into a race with him you fly off he lights you up and pulls you over. . The officer did not instagate/provoke you to race he simpley pulled up next to you in an undercover car that looks like its made to race. and you try to race him. This is not entrapment

As tomustang said
Opportunity = not entrapment

Provoking = entrapment

[Spydergrl97]

Not surprised at all

[Mr.Crx]

Just like you don't negotiate with terrorists, you can't argue with the ignorant.

[420sx]

Originally Posted by Mr.Crx

Just like you don't negotiate with terrorists, you can't argue with the ignorant.

Agree 100%

Kind of ironic coming from you though.

[i_ride_fieroGT]

Originally Posted by Mr.Crx

Just like you don't negotiate with terrorists, you can't argue with the ignorant.

Yes and for the life of me. i dont know why im arguing with you

[Mr.Crx]

Originally Posted by 420sx

Agree 100%

Kind of ironic coming from you though.

I knew I set myself up for a comment like that...

Originally Posted by i_ride_fieroGT

i dont know why im arguing with you

OK then, stop arguing and leave then....


we've all made our points and we can go around and around with this for 7 more pages....but....

[420sx]

Originally Posted by Mr.Crx

I knew I set myself up for a comment like that...

lol. Agree to disagree.

[cyron]

Aren't the laws so f'd up that two cars traveling side by side are drag racing?
It's rather silly, but giving the people the perception of doing something sometimes goes a lot further than actually getting results.

[05suby]

its not entrapment.

[i_ride_fieroGT]

Originally Posted by 05suby

its not entrapment.

Not to start up another argument here but explane to me how it is not? The officer is the 1st one to break the law in order to get another to break the law.. this in itself is entrapment.

[05suby]

Originally Posted by i_ride_fieroGT

Not to start up another argument here but explane to me how it is not? The officer is the 1st one to break the law in order to get another to break the law.. this in itself is entrapment.

if you guys paid attention its been mentioned.

but he explained it already

Originally Posted by TNTramair

people saying that this is some form of entrapment need to take a criminal justice course and get educated. in no way shape or form is this entrapment. first of all, you allready know that Police do this type of stuff and therefore know the risks involved. not to mention that if ya did it with someone that wasnt a cop, you still know the risks envolved with these type of activities.

that said....this would be the same type of scenerio with a criminal buying drugs off an undercover cop....is that entrapment aswell?? the cops just provide the oppurtunity...they dont hold a gun to your head and make you do anything.

ive had this argument using your guys points with my professors and they all say it isnt entrapment. if it was they wouldnt ****ing do it. they dont make you race, you make that decision on your own. no one is forcing you to do anything but yourself. so its not entrapment. someone ask bane or any other cop on here.

[Mr.Crx]

Originally Posted by i_ride_fieroGT

Not to start up another argument here but explane to me how it is not?

Here we go again...
Prob one of the many reasons that have already been mentioned previously in this thread...

Originally Posted by 05suby

if you guys paid attention its been mentioned.

They didn't...


Happy you mentioned it again... but ppl seem to not understand the whole free will, self responsibility, knowing right from wrong aspect of it

Originally Posted by 05suby

they don't make you race, you make that decision on your own. no one is forcing you to do anything but yourself.

Damn this horse, it is relentless, it won't die, it's like we're talking in circles now....

[i_ride_fieroGT]

Originally Posted by 05suby

if you guys paid attention its been mentioned.

but he explained it already



ive had this argument using your guys points with my professors and they all say it isnt entrapment. if it was they wouldnt ****ing do it. they dont make you race, you make that decision on your own. no one is forcing you to do anything but yourself. so its not entrapment. someone ask bane or any other cop on here.

I have already asked a cop friend of mine and a layer friend of mine. Both have told me its entrapment. If the cop is not speeding and tailgating/instagating a race in an undercover car it is not but. The fact the officer is breaking the law first in order to get you to break the law is entrapment. There is a very fine line between the right way and entrapment. buying drugs off a cop is one thing. The person walked out of the door ready to make a deal and the officers have reasonable proof and evidence that the perk was going to make the deal.. They do not however have evidence that you were going to walk out of the door in the morning and go out street racing. By the officer putting your life in danger first to get you to break the law he is wrong. Plus if he gets on the wrong persons a** ands he decides to slam on his brakes insted of racing. Not only does the person who got hit get rich off the county. The police station could go under fedral review.

[i_ride_fieroGT]

Originally Posted by Mr.Crx

Here we go again...
Prob one of the many reasons that have already been mentioned previously in this thread...



They didn't...


Happy you mentioned it again... but ppl seem to not understand the whole free will, self responsibility, knowing right from wrong aspect of it



Damn this horse, it is relentless, it won't die, it's like we're talking in circles now....

Theres all the reasons dome of you guys come up with that are completley wrong and i have no idea where you guys are pulling it from. I think a lot of you cant figure out the diffrence between provoking and opertunity in the case of entrapment. Frankley i dont really care. If it happens to you and you dont know your rights in that situation you deserve to get the book thrown at you.