Undercover Police cars

[i_ride_fieroGT]

Originally Posted by Maxxdsix

i agree, but then again, why is it that we cant have 0% tint but cop cars can?

rules are meant to be broken by cops, thats just how our society works.

More or less only the K-9 units have 0% tint so the dog dosent get to hot in the back/ and the unmarked have it so you cant see the officer inside.

[i_ride_fieroGT]

Originally Posted by SpEcRv9

I highlighted it for you....

there's a huge difference between growing pot and the cops get a search warrant, and bust you with no evidence etc...than a undercover pull up next to you entice you to race and pull you over when you decide to be an idiot and race....

You really just proved how much of an idiot you actuley really are here.... Its all the same in the law book. Yes a cop in an unmarked car trying to get someone to race and pull them over is entrapment and an infringement on someone elses rights. Also thus the officer is also participting in an illegal unsantioned racing event. Go to your local courthouse or even to an attorney and ask him about this issue. They will all tell you its entrapment and aganst someone elses rights. I geuss there are some people out there stupid enough to just let it happen.

[SpEcRv9]

Originally Posted by i_ride_fieroGT

You really just proved how much of an idiot you actuley really are here.... Its all the same in the law book. Yes a cop in an unmarked car trying to get someone to race and pull them over is entrapment and an infringement on someone elses rights. Also thus the officer is also participting in an illegal unsantioned racing event. Go to your local courthouse or even to an attorney and ask him about this issue. They will all tell you its entrapment and aganst someone elses rights. I geuss there are some people out there stupid enough to just let it happen.

you really are the idiot for thinking drug laws and enforcement are the same as traffic laws and enforcement.

once again when you try to call someone an idiot, try not to look like a 6th grader wrote your statement.

[djb5118]

Originally Posted by i_ride_fieroGT

Also thus the officer is also participting in an illegal unsantioned racing event.

So with this logic if an officer has to exceed the speed limit to pull me over, then the ticket shouldn't count because he broke the law, right?



Here's an example of an entrapment argument that I have heard recently:

Say someone is dealing drugs. The cops have been investigating this person for a long time for drug dealing, and they are WELL aware of what is going on. They decide to set up a sting on the dealer. They get their contact to set up a deal with the guy, and an undercover officer (or someone working for the police) goes and meets this guy and they make the exchange. That's fine, the guy is caught in the deal. He did it, there is no denying it and cops do things like this all of the time.

Where the entrapment argument comes in though is that the police set the deal up to occur in a high school parking lot. They went forth with an effort to catch the guy, and also catch him in a school zone which automatically increases the punishment without any way around it. So, the issue isn't he was busted selling drugs, it's that the cops set it up to purposely increase the punishment and the dealer was unaware. The transaction would have occurred, no arguing that because the guy IS a drug dealer, but the dealer would most likely not have made it within the school area which is where the entrapment comes in.


So with my logic (I'm not a lawyer, so I could very well be wrong), but it isn't illegal at all for the police to try to get you to race. They are essentially doing a sting operation on "tuners." But, where entrapment would come in would be if the police officer purposefully set up the race in an increased punishment zone (school zone, construction zone, what have you) and thus really throw the book at you.




Edit:
The definition of entrapment is: persuaded by law enforcement officers or their agents to commit a crime that he had no previous intent to commit. Although it is not against the law for an officer to provide a favorable opportunity to commit the crime. So, to officers and apparently the law (since these cars DO in fact roam the streets), people with modified cars appear to have intent to street race. Now, that may or may not be true but the only way to ensure that you don't have to worry about it is to just NOT RACE PEOPLE ON THE STREET...or at least be 100% sure who they are . Seems pretty simple to me.

There are other stipulations that help to define exactly what constitutes what entrapment is, and the situation must fit all of those criteria, but unfortunately there are TONS of loopholes that can be used in favor of the laws.

For example one of the stipulations is that the person had to have the idea to commit the crime originally and the officer can not give the person the idea to commit the crime. So an officer flashes his lights at you, revs, or whatever it may be to try to signal a race. It can easily be argued that without any verbal communication that there was no persuasion by the officer. It seems like he can rev and flash his lights until the cows come home but if YOU are the one to get on the throttle and take off then you have initiated the crime.

[russiankid]

Originally Posted by i_ride_fieroGT

Its entrapment and illegal.Its not illegal to use thoes kind of cars as police cars but going around driving recklessley and egging people on to race as an officer of the law is entrapment and will not hold up in a court of law. Out in cali for instance they use sezied cars from street races as police cars. If the car is mostley stock and up to par preformancewise (meaning no civics) and it dosent cost to much to make it Smog legal. They put it on there highway patroll units.

I beleave north carolina has a 350Z and a mustang cobra seized from street racing and turned into a patrol car.

The other reason i say its entrapment and a county wont take the risk of doing somthing this childish is, say if there doing it to you and insted of taking off for a race like most idiots do You slam on the brakes or give it a good downshift and they smack into the back of you..... Your going to be set for the rest of your life from the county the officer who hit you works out of.

Fiero is out too if a Civic is.


And cops will find a way around this because 70% of the people won't try and dig up laws and such to prove them wrong in court.

Originally Posted by i_ride_fieroGT

You really just proved how much of an idiot you actuley really are here.... Its all the same in the law book. Yes a cop in an unmarked car trying to get someone to race and pull them over is entrapment and an infringement on someone elses rights. Also thus the officer is also participting in an illegal unsantioned racing event. Go to your local courthouse or even to an attorney and ask him about this issue. They will all tell you its entrapment and aganst someone elses rights. I geuss there are some people out there stupid enough to just let it happen.

What rights? If the person proceeds to race because of the pressure someone is putting on them, then it is their fault for going for it. What difference does it make if a law enforcement officer or a normal citizen does this? Does it make it okay for a citizen to do it and all of the sudden when law enforcement steps in a **** storm is brewed?

Before you go say someone is stupid, read what you write.

"Also thus the officer is also participting in an illegal unsantioned racing event."

Also thus? So you're adding something and concluding/transitioning into another statement? Everything you write is a huge ball of ideas that are not worded correctly, nor do they have any meaning behind them. It seems as if a 5th grader got a hold of a key board and had some fun.

[i_ride_fieroGT]

Originally Posted by djb5118

So with this logic if an officer has to exceed the speed limit to pull me over, then the ticket shouldn't count because he broke the law, right?

In this case you were not being provoked to race you were acting like an idiot and got pulled over for it. He was not doing anything to provoke you speeding.

And as for your scenareo They must be able to prove in court beyond a reasonable dought that your dealing. They can know you are all the want but if theres no supporting evidence saying your dealing they cant do anything to you. Now if they get a warrent and have reasonable evidence to back up a fake deal than its not entrapment. These are also 2 very diffrent situations here. they cannot go and put you in danger while driving just because you have modded your car. its profiling and entrapment.

[i_ride_fieroGT]

Originally Posted by SpEcRv9

you really are the idiot for thinking drug laws and enforcement are the same as traffic laws and enforcement.

once again when you try to call someone an idiot, try not to look like a 6th grader wrote your statement.

Because you really are an idiot. entrapment laws span from everything from traffic laws all the way up to drug enforcement. It all works the same way.... It would be wise not to argue with someone who oviousley knows the law a lot better than you do.

And good job on the spelling... everyone who knows me will tell you I cant spell to save my life. Why dont you go back to 6th grade and come up with some better insults.

[i_ride_fieroGT]

Originally Posted by russiankid

Fiero is out too if a Civic is.


And cops will find a way around this because 70% of the people won't try and dig up laws and such to prove them wrong in court.




What rights? If the person proceeds to race because of the pressure someone is putting on them, then it is their fault for going for it. What difference does it make if a law enforcement officer or a normal citizen does this? Does it make it okay for a citizen to do it and all of the sudden when law enforcement steps in a **** storm is brewed?

Before you go say someone is stupid, read what you write.

"Also thus the officer is also participting in an illegal unsantioned racing event."

Also thus? So you're adding something and concluding/transitioning into another statement? Everything you write is a huge ball of ideas that are not worded correctly, nor do they have any meaning behind them. It seems as if a 5th grader got a hold of a key board and had some fun.

Go look up the laws of entrapment. As stated to the moron i quoted in the above post. Entrapment laws span from traffic law all the way up to drug law and even past that. An officer on duty cannot physicly Force you to race them and ticket you.
1 its entrapment which we have already gone over
2. I puts the 2 partys and other partys in danger just so they can give you a $300 ticket
3. No law enforcement outfit out there will take the risk of having an officer get brake checked rear end someone and have there outfit sued for multapule counts.....

And of corse the fiero is out in cali as a patroll car
Even though i have seen one as a DARE car which is technecley a police car.
1. its to old
2. by cali and fedral regulataions the car must be stock with a stock engine, Swapping out a police car engine raises a lot of questions and concerns and also any kind of engine mod unless it goes through a rigirous approval in cali is illegal so they cant go and hop up there engine if you cant.

[i_ride_fieroGT]

Read it and weap fellas PA laws of entrapment section 313 Subsections (a) (b) and (c)
this subsection refers to any kind of enforcement weather it be murder drugs or traffic


http://law.onecle.com/pennsylvania/c...3.013.000.html


§ 313. Entrapment.
(a) General rule.--,A public law enforcement official or a
person acting in cooperation with such an official perpetrates
an entrapment if for the purpose of obtaining evidence of the
commission of an offense, he induces or encourages another
person to engage in conduct constituting such offense by either:

(1) making knowingly false representations designed to
induce the belief that such conduct is not prohibited; or
(2) employing methods of persuasion or inducement which
create a substantial risk that such an offense will be
committed by persons other than those who are ready to commit
it.
(b) Burden of proof.--Except as provided in subsection (c)
of this section, a person prosecuted for an offense shall be
acquitted if he proves by a preponderance of evidence that his
conduct occurred in response to an entrapment.
(c) Exception.--The defense afforded by this section is
unavailable when causing or threatening bodily injury is an
element of the offense charged and the prosecution is based on
conduct causing or threatening such injury to a person other
than the person perpetrating the entrapment.



Basicley as breakdown for the simple minded. If the officer or someone acting in accordance with the officer is breaking the law in order to get you to break the law its entrapment.

[i_ride_fieroGT]

And one other point to make....
This is why it dosent happen around here
Look on the 1st page and look at the licence plate ontario providence of canada. ever think there laws are diffrent than ours?

[djb5118]

Originally Posted by i_ride_fieroGT

Go look up the laws of entrapment. As stated to the moron i quoted in the above post. Entrapment laws span from traffic law all the way up to drug law and even past that. An officer on duty cannot physicly Force you to race them and ticket you.
1 its entrapment which we have already gone over
2. I puts the 2 partys and other partys in danger just so they can give you a $300 ticket
3. No law enforcement outfit out there will take the risk of having an officer get brake checked rear end someone and have there outfit sued for multapule counts.....

And of corse the fiero is out in cali as a patroll car
Even though i have seen one as a DARE car which is technecley a police car.
1. its to old
2. by cali and fedral regulataions the car must be stock with a stock engine, Swapping out a police car engine raises a lot of questions and concerns and also any kind of engine mod unless it goes through a rigirous approval in cali is illegal so they cant go and hop up there engine if you cant.

You must not have read everything I wrote...there is no physical force if a police car is disguised. They will never make the first move to race. Honking, flashing lights, revving, etc could easily be written off as random things and not an invitation to break the law. They will wait until you get on the gas, and promptly pull you over.

[i_ride_fieroGT]

Originally Posted by djb5118

You must not have read everything I wrote...there is no physical force if a police car is disguised. They will never make the first move to race. Honking, flashing lights, revving, etc could easily be written off as random things and not an invitation to break the law. They will wait until you get on the gas, and promptly pull you over.

If thats the case than the person is dumb enough to do that than they deserve a ticket. police can use any car they want as long as it meets state regulataions. But if the officer is driving reclessley swerving tailgating flashing lights and all that and wont let off you than yes its a diffrent story.

[Mr.Crx]

Originally Posted by i_ride_fieroGT

And one other point to make....

Are you done defending ppl who know the difference between right and wrong but when they get caught, don't take responsibility for their actions,apparently can't think for themselves, blame others and come up with a million more excuses as to why they did something?

[420sx]

Originally Posted by Mr.Crx

Are you done defending ppl who know the difference between right and wrong but when they get caught, don't take responsibility for their actions,apparently can't think for themselves, blame others and come up with a million more excuses as to why they did something?

I dont know why you keep arguing that point of view. Totally not what we're debating at all.. even a little bit.

[Yes SiR]

You're all making up "facts" here and then arguing about it. Unless someone here can provide PROOF that these undercover cars are actually racing people, or in any way driving recklessly and endangering other drivers, then you all have just wasted 3 pages talking about something no one has yet proven to be true.

Or better yet, anyone find a legitimate link proving that these programs are entrapment and that'll end it.

[tomustang]

Originally Posted by Clin10

to sway towards the OP, there is a old beat up 95-ish Intrepid in Trenton that tries to tailgate people to make them speed up past the speed limit to pull them over. I saw it happen right next to me about 4 months ago on my way back home from UTI

Now that's entrapment.

Originally Posted by BlueMSProtege

It should be put through the same scrutiny as prostitution. Police can dress up as a prostitute but they cross the line into entrapment when they approach someone and ask if they would like to pay for sex.

But they're not the same, in prostitution, they are trying to reach the sale of sex, which is the beginning act. Think if baiting into a race was put through with just flashing the light or downshifting.



Cut and dry

Opportunity = not entrapment

Provoking = entrapment

[tomustang]

Originally Posted by i_ride_fieroGT

2. by cali and fedral regulataions the car must be stock with a stock engine, Swapping out a police car engine raises a lot of questions and concerns and also any kind of engine mod unless it goes through a rigirous approval in cali is illegal so they cant go and hop up there engine if you cant.

Don't even bring california in here, they have their own rules for everything. Like prostitution, just read their cragslists ads for trade of sex for goods, it's legal

[i_ride_fieroGT]

Originally Posted by Mr.Crx

Are you done defending ppl who know the difference between right and wrong but when they get caught, don't take responsibility for their actions,apparently can't think for themselves, blame others and come up with a million more excuses as to why they did something?

I'm not defending anyone. Personaly i think anyone dumb enough to take off during this situation is retarded but, there is a certan order and way that things are done in order to catch someone doing somthing wrong. A cop cannot assume your selling drugs walk into your house without a warrent/your consent slap the cuffs on you and tug you off to jail. Thus an officer of the law should not and by laws of entrapment cannot legaly bait you into racing them by being the 1st perp to tailgate speed flash lights etc etc and when you follow suit they ticket you... As i stated this is entrapment. The story you are talking about is takinf place up in ontario canada where there laws and regulations are a lot diffrent than down here and they might be able to do that but within USA borders its entrapment. I dont even know what im explaning myself to you im surprised you dont already know this

[i_ride_fieroGT]

Originally Posted by tomustang

Don't even bring california in here, they have their own rules for everything. Like prostitution, just read their cragslists ads for trade of sex for goods, it's legal

I know... Its cali though. What do you expect.

Originally Posted by tomustang

Now that's entrapment.



But they're not the same, in prostitution, they are trying to reach the sale of sex, which is the beginning act. Think if baiting into a race was put through with just flashing the light or downshifting.



Cut and dry

Opportunity = not entrapment

Provoking = entrapment

Couldent have explained it better myself.

[Supraru]

I'm going to put a police interceptor badge on my car so all the retards on the forums can post pictures of it wondering if it's a cop or not.