Sign this petition keeping Government control OUT of healthcare

[importpower99]

Originally Posted by )Law(

It was in correlation with the Dick Cheney hunting incident. Also yes i do. Those cheap Americans that poolmike are actually talking about are the poor and lower class who in most cases CAN'T get health insurance. The lower class is actually getting decimated thanks not having health care and the econemy. So are the middle class thanks to the econemy and the housing market. Look at how many Americans have lost thier jobs and can't afford to get health care and have to take lower paying jobs or no jobs at all. Also i belive just looking to Canada as a example of health care reform is bad idea as there are plenty of other places where its very good and actually better than our current plan ex. Sweden and thier hybrid system.

Those middle class americans that can't afford health insurance don't exist, that too is a myth. And how dare you bring up Sweden! Did you notice that the republicans and fox news don't bring Sweden up either? And it has nothing to do with there good health care system, or that you don't pay for prescriptions drugs, or that with all this care their nation is not in debt but in a surplus.

[importpower99]

Originally Posted by bastid

You mean the 47% of Americans who pay net-zero in taxes don't actually exist?

Are the corporations included in that?

[importpower99]

Originally Posted by poolmike

I am referring to the majority of people that I speak to in my travels, around Bucks/Mont. Counties, who bitch about the price of health insurance...you know that stuff that pays for hospital and doctor visits....all while driving a car worth at least $400/month, yackin' it up on a cell phone that is probably worth $300, + $100/month plan, etc. It is all in priorities, most people have very f'd up priorities. How do you know that they don't qualify for health insurance? And yes there are tons of people in this world you have messed up priorities. Like driving a 80k car and parking it outside of there $600 a month apartment.

If the low and middle class can't afford insurance, what makes you think the gov't will help them out? The gov't option is supposed to be user funded, and supplemented by the fines inflicted on people like myself who are smart enough to not by into any bullcrap insurance plan.

I thought the goal was affordable health insurance?

I just wouldn't see the point in coming up with something that is suppose to help americans and then would turn around and make it useless.

[bastid]

Originally Posted by importpower99

Are the corporations included in that?

Are corporate income tax and individual income tax the same thing?

[OutlawzPrez]

“Good healthcare is not a right... it’s a privilege that should be worked for and cherished, not handed out.”

[poolmike]

Originally Posted by importpower99

I thought the goal was affordable health insurance?

I just wouldn't see the point in coming up with something that is suppose to help americans and then would turn around and make it useless.

Health insurance IS affordable. Health insurance and the right to NOT have it, should stay totally optional.

[OutlawzPrez]

Originally Posted by poolmike

Health insurance IS affordable. Health insurance and the right to NOT have it, should stay totally optional.

... Agreed. But this bill "forces" eveyone to have it. Don't get me wrong, It would be great if everyone had it. BUT when you take away my liberty & freedom by NOT giving me a choice then that my friend is just plain unconstitutional. Our forefathers would be tossing in their graves if they knew how BIG the Gov't wants to be & how much control they want to aquire.

[OutlawzPrez]

Originally Posted by importpower99

What ! I have my own health insurance. I'm not going on no gov't plan. I am fully insured.
And those folks you talk about are mostly myths.

You just proved my point! Why would you want to go on Gov't health insurance?! I think we should scrap the Baucus bill which is national HC & leave it upto the states. We don't need a one size fits all bill.

[ITSTOCK]

Originally Posted by importpower99

I thought the goal was affordable health insurance?

I just wouldn't see the point in coming up with something that is suppose to help americans and then would turn around and make it useless.

How about the people who pay $500/month for their "hot car" yet complain about $200/month health insurance?

Is that a better example to achieve what poolmike was stating about ****ed up priorities?


And yes, I FULLY expect the government to start taking over my auto insurance if they do so with my health insurance.

[OutlawzPrez]

Originally Posted by ITSTOCK

How about the people who pay $500/month for their "hot car" yet complain about $200/month health insurance?

Is that a better example to achieve what poolmike was stating about ****ed up priorities?


And yes, I FULLY expect the government to start taking over my auto insurance if they do so with my health insurance.

Great point. Alot of people just lack common sense now a days.

[importpower99]

Originally Posted by bastid

Are corporate income tax and individual income tax the same thing?

nope. I just don't see how you can complain about one and not the other. And you were a member here long enough; were are your threads about the BUsh admin cutting taxes to the wealthy (twice) while the deficit increased?

[importpower99]

Originally Posted by poolmike

Health insurance IS affordable. Health insurance and the right to NOT have it, should stay totally optional.

Health insurance is not affordable, my friend who owns a business pays $1700 a month for himself, his wife and two kids, tell me how that is affordable?

[importpower99]

Originally Posted by OutlawzPrez

You just proved my point! Why would you want to go on Gov't health insurance?! I think we should scrap the Baucus bill which is national HC & leave it upto the states. We don't need a one size fits all bill.

Umm, you just proved my point, you spend more time listening to scare tactics then facts. If you have your own health insurance you don't have to go on a gov't option.

[importpower99]

Originally Posted by ITSTOCK

How about the people who pay $500/month for their "hot car" yet complain about $200/month health insurance?

Is that a better example to achieve what poolmike was stating about ****ed up priorities?


And yes, I FULLY expect the government to start taking over my auto insurance if they do so with my health insurance.

I thought I addressed this already?
How do you know that they don't qualify for health insurance? And yes there are tons of people in this world you have messed up priorities. Like driving a 80k car and parking it outside of there $600 a month apartment.


The problem is you are grouping everyone together, and assuming that they have F'd up priorites.

[OutlawzPrez]

Originally Posted by importpower99

Umm, you just proved my point, you spend more time listening to scare tactics then facts. If you have your own health insurance you don't have to go on a gov't option.

Umm... Nope. Your wrong. I spend more time doing research & reading the bill. Obama lied! He said, "If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan". THE BILL CLEARLY SAYS the Gov't will decide whether or not your current health insurance meets their "new" standards. If not you will be FORCED off that plan to pay for a much higher one or if you can not afford to pay more (what they are hoping), then you will be FORCED to go on the Gov't run plan.

WAKE UP PEOPLE, THESE ARE THE FACTS

If you choose not to go on the "no choice" Gov't run plan each family will receive a FINE as much as $3800 per year for failing to get "government-approved coverage". If that fine is not payed, the IRS will fine you $25,000 & one year in Prison for not acquiring HC.

IF I'M HAPPY WITH MY CURRENT HEALTHCARE, THE GOV'T HAS NO RIGHT TO GET INVOLVED. But in the bill they will decide whats best for you! Not you or your doctor, a board of Gov't bureaucrats in Washington will get inbetween YOU & YOUR Dr.

.... Not many people are buying into your "Hope" & "Change" anymore.

[bastid]

Originally Posted by importpower99

nope. I just don't see how you can complain about one and not the other. And you were a member here long enough; were are your threads about the BUsh admin cutting taxes to the wealthy (twice) while the deficit increased?

And I don't see the point of hijacking a reply with a parallel opinion rather than addressing the point at hand. Then you attempt to make it about me and my join date vs. the fact that the people who pay no taxes at all, not a single damn red penny, almost equal the number of those who do.

And since you decided to interject another point about Bush tax cuts (and somehow tried to connect the dots of me joining in 2006?), let me humbly point out a few facts. After the tax cuts, America did not suffer from materially lower tax revenue. Tax revenue is suffering primarily from unemployment, which was caused by many external factors than just Bush. Hell, the capital gains tax cut in 2003 INCREASED tax revenue on capital gains because it allowed for more investment. Further, when the tax cuts went through, the percentage of the total tax burden increased for the "rich." Nearly the entire increase deficit in 2006 had to do with spending, completely independent of the tax cuts.

The bottom line is when you are talking about deficits and their impact, compare the "deficit" created by tax cuts compared to the impact of entitlement (medicare, social security, welfare, medicaid, and a public option). It makes the 2 tax cuts of the previous administration look like a cup of coffee.

Back on track... I think that Corporations who play "hide the money" should be held accountable under enforcement of laws we already have on the books. Simple as that. Same thing with pursuing Medicare fraud. The grounds for enforcement are already there.

Originally Posted by importpower99

Health insurance is not affordable, my friend who owns a business pays $1700 a month for himself, his wife and two kids, tell me how that is affordable?

Easy. Don't have 2 kids. Come on, that is a no-brainer.

[OutlawzPrez]

More research on the bill...

- The legislation would shift costs to privately insured people, raising the price of a typical policy by hundreds — if not thousands — of dollars annually.
- The legislation would add $1,700 a year to the cost of family coverage in 2013, when most of the major provisions in the bill would be in effect.
- Premiums for a single person would go up by $600 more than would be the case without the legislation
- In 2019, family premiums could be $4,000 higher and individual premiums could be $1,500 higher.
- But the CBO estimated that even with new federal subsidies, some 17 million Americans would still be unable to afford health insurance.
- A new tax on high-cost health insurance plans, cuts in Medicare payments to hospitals and doctors, and a series of new taxes on insurers and other health care industries

Please read the whole article for yourself....
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091012/...aul_insurers_1

[poolmike]

Where is Lee Harvey Oswald when you need him?

[evomike]

That article and research was done halfway by an insurance company I read about it today actually, and why wouldn't try say stuff like that thy are trying to stay in buisness.

[OutlawzPrez]

And we all hope they do stay in business... I don't blame them.