Sign this petition keeping Government control OUT of healthcare

[CleanNeon98]

Originally Posted by cszakolczai

So our current system

And the universal one in question will really not change a thing. Money will always be king.

[Proven]

Originally Posted by SuperCoyle

I went to college with a girl from Italy and she told me the government run system in her country sucks.

I went to college with a girl from the USA and she said her current coverage sucked.

[Proven]

Originally Posted by djb5118

Without getting sucked into this whole argument, I will give another perspective...

I have a friend who lives in New Zealand. There is also government run health care present in that country. Her father has sleep apena. Due to his condition he needs to get into a sleep study to determine the impact it could have on him (side effects, including death). Although, due to his age he is of a lower priority status and thus has a much longer wait than some to get entry to a sleep study.


I have not decided on the issue personally, and honestly I am not adequately informed enough to make a full judgment, but I figured since I had that information that I would share it.


ADDED: I forgot to mention that she has said that she had little to no problem getting into health clinics for treatment (she is in her 20s)

Not directed at you, but for those that think other countries healthcare sucks don't move there. Obama's plan is specific for the US, he didn't call New Zealand or any other country and ask them to fax a copy of their bill.

[CleanNeon98]

Originally Posted by Proven

I went to college with a girl from the USA and she said her current coverage sucked.

So dish out more cash for healthcare rather than fast food. Ever think that if price goes down quality goes down? With that logic in mind, what's going to happen if coverage now "sucks"? More money, more service, enough of this robin hood socialist **** that everyone should be equal. Want something work for it, don't wanna work for it then suffer and don't expect to be spoon fed, a lifestyle a lot of Americans are all too used to and fond of.

[sisforsurfing]

Originally Posted by bastid

With both healthcare and the economy, something needs to be done. Cutting through all of the bull**** being spewed by both sides, a half-assed effort will always yield half-assed results. We cannot afford a half-assed result which is what we're looking at as a best case scenario unless the bill gets some serious work.

Well said.

Originally Posted by CleanNeon98

So dish out more cash for healthcare rather than fast food. Ever think that if price goes down quality goes down? With that logic in mind, what's going to happen if coverage now "sucks"? More money, more service, enough of this robin hood socialist **** that everyone should be equal. Want something work for it, don't wanna work for it then suffer and don't expect to be spoon fed, a lifestyle a lot of Americans are all too used to and fond of.

Dude. What are you going on about? I was with you until the robin hood part, and then it just sounded like an old broken record.

[bastid]

Originally Posted by Proven

... then the same healthcare his kids will be receiving...

Do you really believe this?

[cszakolczai]

Originally Posted by CleanNeon98

So dish out more cash for healthcare rather than fast food. Ever think that if price goes down quality goes down? With that logic in mind, what's going to happen if coverage now "sucks"? More money, more service, enough of this robin hood socialist **** that everyone should be equal. Want something work for it, don't wanna work for it then suffer and don't expect to be spoon fed, a lifestyle a lot of Americans are all too used to and fond of.

Yeah, no, unfortunately Healthcare doesn't work like the rest of the economic cycle. When price goes up, demand does not go down. People do not stop getting sick when the price goes up. It works like the current gas situation in the United States. Price went up, and Demand went down a little bit, but people do not just stop driving. Even more so with healthcare, Price goes up, people do not stop getting cancer or having knee surgeries.

We also drop enough money into the current Healthcare system to make it work properly, yet it still does not.

[CleanNeon98]

Originally Posted by cszakolczai

Yeah, no, unfortunately Healthcare doesn't work like the rest of the economic cycle. When price goes up, demand does not go down. People do not stop getting sick when the price goes up. It works like the current gas situation in the United States. Price went up, and Demand went down a little bit, but people do not just stop driving. Even more so with healthcare, Price goes up, people do not stop getting cancer or having knee surgeries.

We also drop enough money into the current Healthcare system to make it work properly, yet it still does not.

So the solution is to force everyone to dump money into a new system?

[Renegade_]

Originally Posted by CleanNeon98

So the solution is to force everyone to dump money into a new system?

Long term bro, long term. I could go on about how defaulting on the dollar and switching to the Amero while building a revised system with the previous dollar could be accomplished with the debt level being diminished significantly in the process, but that kind of talk seems crazy now because no one wants to believe it... I just don't know what to believe.

It would be gnarly as hell if the government built a system, racked up massive amounts of debt, defaulted on the debt, instated a new currency with a currency backing based on government securities and generalized assurance from the Fed, stating the dollar no longer was viable and rebuilt a debt-free system... They could just print crazy amounts of money for foreign debt and create artificial value on the currency, erasing past debt and raising the GDP of the US... oh snap. Keynesian at its furthest. This wasn't really done with the euro, but close to it; the false value of the euro took like a year plus to slide back to where it should have been in certain countries... I'm sure world economists have figured out how to sustain values of currency long enough to pay off debt...

Sorry, ramblings just kind of come every now and then.

Is universal health care an awesome idea? If it is applied perfectly, yes. Anything short of perfect starts adding negatives.

[cszakolczai]

Originally Posted by CleanNeon98

So the solution is to force everyone to dump money into a new system?

Come on Alex think a little bit. How do you start some huge Universal program, recommend to everyone that its a really good idea and hope to god that they all bite? You have to push them a little bit. Granted as I've stated before I don't like the whole idea of how Obama is going about it, but he needs to be a little bit forceful here if he wants it done.

[OutlawzPrez]

I don't want the gov't taxing me for this. Healthy people who take care of themselves will have to pay for the burden of those who smoke, are obese, etc. So even If I decide to get my own healthcare they are still going to take money out of my paycheck for this universal healthcare. "Does that sound fair?"

Who knows, eventually I may get tired of paying for both & just settle for the lower quality coverage to save money since I'll be taxed anyway & get fined $2500 yearly if I don't have any. If the gov't only taxed people who enrolls in this program then I wouldn't oppose it as much. "Free" health care isn't really free since we must pay for it with taxes; expenses for health care would have to be paid for with higher taxes or spending cuts in other areas such as defense, education, etc.

... Your opinions?

[Z31Fanatic]

Originally Posted by Renegade_

Is universal health care an awesome idea? If it is applied perfectly, yes. Anything short of perfect starts adding negatives.

Why don't you ask the people of taxachussets? They have had universal health care since 2006 and it's pathetic and the state is struggling for money after only 3 years.

[CleanNeon98]

Originally Posted by cszakolczai

Come on Alex think a little bit. How do you start some huge Universal program, recommend to everyone that its a really good idea and hope to god that they all bite? You have to push them a little bit. Granted as I've stated before I don't like the whole idea of how Obama is going about it, but he needs to be a little bit forceful here if he wants it done.

And everyone will have to suffer. **** Obama.

[TrboChicsRock]

Originally Posted by CleanNeon98

So dish out more cash for healthcare rather than fast food. Ever think that if price goes down quality goes down? With that logic in mind, what's going to happen if coverage now "sucks"? More money, more service, enough of this robin hood socialist **** that everyone should be equal. Want something work for it, don't wanna work for it then suffer and don't expect to be spoon fed, a lifestyle a lot of Americans are all too used to and fond of.

If you think that working hard is the sure-fire way of having great health insurance, then you don't get out much. There are plenty of people out there, including myself, who pay a lot for health insurance that won't cover even half of their medical bills. I'm currently sitting on $7k in bills that my insurance won't cover and I don't even have any serious medical problems. That doesn't even include the bill I currently have to pay for my premium that is due right now that I have a hard time paying since they have a hard time paying my current claims.

I work just as hard, if not harder than everyone on this forum. I work full time while taking 18 credits a semester and maintaining a 4.0 GPA all at the same time. So you're looking at 15 hour long days only to come home and do homework/study. So obviously, working hard does not equal good health insurance coverage. And as far as being healthy? Well, I'm far from being fat, I've never smoked or done a single drug in my entire life and I eat well and exercise. I don't think it gets much better than that.

There is a legitamite need to a better health insurance system and all everyone has done in here is complain. I don't see anyone coming up with any better ideas.

Originally Posted by OutlawzPrez

If the gov't only taxed people who enrolls in this program then I wouldn't oppose it as much.

You know, I don't use any of my local fire departments, maybe I should petition to have them stop using my tax dollars to pay firemen and provide them with equipment.

The biggest reason I've seen against this is that people don't want their tax dollars to go towards something they won't use. But I can guarantee that the amount of money that you guys pay in taxes cover nowhere near your percentage of the bills the goverment has to pay for things you use: road construction, education, fire departments, police departments, military, social security, medical research, the list goes on.

Trust me, there are A LOT of things that I don't agree with that our government does. This definitely isn't one of them.

[OutlawzPrez]

Originally Posted by Z31Fanatic

Why don't you ask the people of taxachussets? They have had universal health care since 2006 and it's pathetic and the state is struggling for money after only 3 years.

Much agreed.

[cszakolczai]

Originally Posted by CleanNeon98

And everyone will have to suffer. **** Obama.

Alex, get out of this thread. You really have no idea what your talking about... go talk about Robin Hood with someone else.

[Z31Fanatic]

Here we go, your new fascist government are using union thugs to confront the pissed off people at a Tampa town hall meeting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kxaGfClPws

[cszakolczai]

Originally Posted by OutlawzPrez

I don't want the gov't taxing me for this. Healthy people who take care of themselves will have to pay for the burden of those who smoke, are obese, etc. So even If I decide to get my own healthcare they are still going to take money out of my paycheck for this universal healthcare. "Does that sound fair?"

Who knows, eventually I may get tired of paying for both & just settle for the lower quality coverage to save money since I'll be taxed anyway & get fined $2500 yearly if I don't have any. If the gov't only taxed people who enrolls in this program then I wouldn't oppose it as much. "Free" health care isn't really free since we must pay for it with taxes; expenses for health care would have to be paid for with higher taxes or spending cuts in other areas such as defense, education, etc.

... Your opinions?

Where do you get that people who smoke will be treated and people who are obese? Sorry but wasn't your statement before about the government choosing who they want to treat and who they think is a better candidate? If so, I doubt they'll treat bob's emphysema who's been smoking for 25 years. So make up your mind, is the government going to or are they not going to treat these people.

If you want my opinion... people who have illnesses like this will not be treated as much, and the actual sick people will be. So this will actually work out in theory due to the fact the money saved from Bob will go to someone else who didn't bring this upon themself.

[cszakolczai]

Originally Posted by TrboChicsRock

If you think that working hard is the sure-fire way of having great health insurance, then you don't get out much. There are plenty of people out there, including myself, who pay a lot for health insurance that won't cover even half of their medical bills. I'm currently sitting on $7k in bills that my insurance won't cover and I don't even have any serious medical problems. That doesn't even include the bill I currently have to pay for my premium that is due right now that I have a hard time paying since they have a hard time paying my current claims.

I work just as hard, if not harder than everyone on this forum. I work full time while taking 18 credits a semester and maintaining a 4.0 GPA all at the same time. So you're looking at 15 hour long days only to come home and do homework/study. So obviously, working hard does not equal good health insurance coverage. And as far as being healthy? Well, I'm far from being fat, I've never smoked or done a single drug in my entire life and I eat well and exercise. I don't think it gets much better than that.

There is a legitamite need to a better health insurance system and all everyone has done in here is complain. I don't see anyone coming up with any better ideas.



You know, I don't use any of my local fire departments, maybe I should petition to have them stop using my tax dollars to pay firemen and provide them with equipment.

The biggest reason I've seen against this is that people don't want their tax dollars to go towards something they won't use. But I can guarantee that the amount of money that you guys pay in taxes cover nowhere near your percentage of the bills the goverment has to pay for things you use: road construction, education, fire departments, police departments, military, social security, medical research, the list goes on.

Trust me, there are A LOT of things that I don't agree with that our government does. This definitely isn't one of them.

Very good point being made.

[OutlawzPrez]

Originally Posted by TrboChicsRock

If you think that working hard is the sure-fire way of having great health insurance, then you don't get out much. There are plenty of people out there, including myself, who pay a lot for health insurance that won't cover even half of their medical bills. I'm currently sitting on $7k in bills that my insurance won't cover and I don't even have any serious medical problems. That doesn't even include the bill I currently have to pay for my premium that is due right now that I have a hard time paying since they have a hard time paying my current claims.

I work just as hard, if not harder than everyone on this forum. I work full time while taking 18 credits a semester and maintaining a 4.0 GPA all at the same time. So you're looking at 15 hour long days only to come home and do homework/study. So obviously, working hard does not equal good health insurance coverage. And as far as being healthy? Well, I'm far from being fat, I've never smoked or done a single drug in my entire life and I eat well and exercise. I don't think it gets much better than that.

There is a legitamite need to a better health insurance system and all everyone has done in here is complain. I don't see anyone coming up with any better ideas.



You know, I don't use any of my local fire departments, maybe I should petition to have them stop using my tax dollars to pay firemen and provide them with equipment.

The biggest reason I've seen against this is that people don't want their tax dollars to go towards something they won't use. But I can guarantee that the amount of money that you guys pay in taxes cover nowhere near your percentage of the bills the goverment has to pay for things you use: road construction, education, fire departments, police departments, military, social security, medical research, the list goes on.

Trust me, there are A LOT of things that I don't agree with that our government does. This definitely isn't one of them.

That is not a legitimate defense. These two are completely different. Like social security, any government benefit eventually is taken as a "right" by the public, meaning that it's politically near impossible to remove or curtail it later on when costs get out of control.

Do you really want the gov't being in control of your health? And YES I do agree that we need to better our healhcare system, NOT CREAT A NEW SYSTEM IN A QUICK BANG. But I disagree with the Obama administration on this one. So ask yourself what good would it do to wipe out a few hundred dollars of monthly health insurance premiums if our taxes go up by that much or more? for example If we have to cut AIDS research or education spending, is it worth it?