Obama's plan for Universal Healthcare...opinions

[bastid]

Originally Posted by fballman1987

well fortunately not everyone over that 250k mark makes only 250k, so that means the millionaires and billionaires wont notice it.

hes is rushing the plan, needs to make it clear what exactly he is trying to get accomplished and again not rush this thing.

If your AGI is $1,000,000, you take home approximately $550k after federal state, local SS, etc. taxes. Its a 5.4% proposed tax increase on income >$1M, or approximately $54,000. It's a ~10% haircut against Net Income for those making $1,000,000.

Not to mention joint filings. This lowers the threshold, too.

[Got Insulin?]

I'm very content to kick back and watch Bastid pwn faces in hurr.

[russiankid]

Originally Posted by CleanNeon98

But is it fair to take more money away from those who tried hard to make their 250k a year because some lazy asswipe doesn't care to better themselves? I don't think so. My thought is you are what you make yourself.

The idea of community is good but I don't think the "rich" should be responsible for giving dollars to help the "poor" live better, it gives the "poor" a sense of relaxation where they have no incentive to try and better their lives because they know someone else's tax dollars will pay for that anyway.

You want healthcare? Work for it. You want to live better? Work for it. May sound a bit barbaric to some but I think the government needs to step back a little and let people "fend for themselves".

I will have to agree. I don't want to work my ass off only to have my money taken away because someone who decided to sleep through their years of school. It was mentioned earlier in this thread that we would need more doctors. Well maybe education should be taken care of before hand so we actually can get more doctors. A lot of people cry about not affording school because it costs so much. I just went through the process of financial aid and loans, there is so much money out there for education its ridiculous. You don't even have to pay it back until you graduate and get a job! So back to my point, those "less fortunate" are not really "less fortunate", so why should I give you my hard earned money?

[ITSTOCK]

I mean, seriously?

http://www.financialsense.com/fsn/pr...2009/0724.html

PG 22 MANDATES the Government will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!!

PG 24 Line 116 Government effectively sets prices for ALL private health plans.

PG 30 Line 123 THERE WILL BE A Government COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get.

PG 37 Line 132 The Government will be reviewing grievances about themselves and will decide on appeals for rejected claims.

PG 29 Line 4-16 YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!! Additionally you can reference PG 15 Line 19-25.

PG 42 The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HealthCare Benefits for you. You have no choice!

PG 50 Line 152 HealthCare will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise.

PG 58 Government will have real-time access to individuals’ finances & a National ID HealthCare Card will be issued!

PG 59 Line 21-24 Government will have direct access to your banks accounts for electronic funds transfer!

PG 61 Line 22-24 Congress has no clue what Electronic Medical Records will cost. Asks for estimate.

PG 62 Protection of Data, Government shows they will have database of your personal & financial info.

OK peeps a big one – PG 64 Line 21-25, pg65 Line 1-5 which refers to processing payment transactions by financial institutions

PG 65 Line 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community organizations (ACORN).

PG 72 Line 8-14 Government is creating an HealthCare Exchange to bring private HealthCare plans under Government control.

PG 84 Line 203 Government mandates ALL benefit packages for private. HealthCare plans in the Exchange.

PG 85 Line 7 Specs for of Benefit Levels for Plans = The Government will ration your HealthCare! #AARP members – your Health care Will be rationed.

PG 89 Line 6-10 The FAR is not applicable. Government can write contracts any way they want.

PG 95 Line 8-18 The Government will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Government HealthCare plan.

PG 98 Line 8 Americans - You will be paying for others HealthCare while paying for your own.

PG 100 Line 15-19 The Government Will be using ACORN and other community groups to promote & enroll.

[ITSTOCK]

PG 102 Line 12-18 Medicaid Eligible Individual will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.

PG 109 Line 207 Health Trust Fund. The Government will raise taxes on EVERYONE to fund HealthCare as they see fit. Correction

PG 110 Line 7-12 Employment taxes on ALL employers NOT offering Government HealthCare. No choice.

PG 110 Line 13-18 An excise tax on ALL goods from companies not offering Government HealthCare. ALL Americans pay.

PG 110 Line 19-24 the Treasury can take $$ from Soc Line to pay HealthCare.

PG 111 Line 208 The Federal Government will usurp all State powers in State Based HealthCare Exchange. Violation of 10th Amend.

PG 119 Line 1-3 Establish geographically-adjusted premium rates for public option Can you say ACORN census?

PG 121 Line 223 PAYMENT RATES FOR ITEMS AND SERVICES. Can you say Government price fixing & monopoly?

PG 124 Line 24-25 No company can sue Government on price fixing. No “judicial review” against Government Monopoly.

PG 126 Line 10-15 The Government can make up prices for anything at anytime for any reason.

PG 126 Line 22-25 Employers MUST pay for HealthCare for part time employees AND their families.

PG 127 Line 1-16 Doctors: The Government will tell YOU what you can make.

PG 129 The public option will be subsidized. Credits = your tax dollars. Redistribution of wealth.

PG 130 Line 10-23 Federal Government will subsidize State Medicaid = Even Higher State & Federal taxes for ALL.

PG 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE.

PG 149 Line 16-24 ANY Employer with payroll 400k & above who does not provide public option pays 8% tax on all payroll.

PG 150 Line 9-13 Biz with payroll btw 251k & 400k who doesn’t provide public option pays 2-6% tax on all payroll.

PG 151 Line 1-3 Aggregate Rules-tax on employers payroll not on public option include payroll of other biz.

PG 167 Line 18-23 ANY individual who doesn’t have acceptable HealthCare according to Government will be taxed 2.5% of inc.

PG 170 Line 1-3 Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay)

PG 195 Officers & employees of HealthCare Administration (Government) will have access to ALL Americans financial/personal records.

PG 198 Line 1-3 1.5% ADDITIONAL TAX on peeps who have income of 500k to 1mil. Redistribution of Wealth.

PG 198 Line 4-6 5.4% ADDITIONAL TAX on peeps who have income of $1mil+. Redistribution of Wealth

PG 199 Line 1-4 Surtax rates on raised AGAIN on Americans in 2012.

[ITSTOCK]

PG 201 Line 12-19 Government will ignore whatever costs they see fit to show savings. (Cooking the books)

PG 203 Line 14-15 “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax” Yes, it says that.

PG 202-215 is a Government rewrite of the tax code ensuring more taxes for EVERYONE, Everywhere.

PG 239 Line 14-24 Government will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected.

PG 241 Line 6-8 Doctors, doesn’t matter what specialty you have, you’ll all be paid the same.

PG 236 Line 22-25 PG 237 Line 1-3 National rate of uninsured defined by Census. Can you say ACORN corruption?

PG 239 Line 10-12 Medicare DSH payments will be increased. Can you say even higher taxes for all?

PG 238-249 Line 1121 Doctors-Government mandates your growth, costs, value, services, & income. Peeps- Welcome to rationing

PG 253 Line 10-18 Government sets value of Dr’s time, prof judg, etc. Literally value of humans. We’re next.

PG 260 Line 1125 Fed Government will adjust Medicare Payment Localities for California based on Census. ACORN?

PG 265 Line 1131 Government mandates & controls productivity for private HealthCare industries.

PG 268 Line 1141 Fed Government regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs.

PG 270 Line 1144 Government Mandates that all private ambulatory surgical centers submit cost data & other data

PG 272 Line 1145 TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS – Cancer patients – welcome to rationing!

PG 276 Line 3-20 Oxygen Equipment & Supply Companies - Government MANDATES you will provide supplies NO MATTER where individual is.

PG 287 Line 14-25 PROOF that Government will ration HealthCare by mandating waiting periods for readmission.

PG 298 Line 9-11 Drs, treat a patient during initial admission that results in a readmission - Government will penalize you.

PG 303 Line 12-25 Post Acute Care Services Data – Government will collect data including personal information as they see fit.

PG 304 Line 17-19 BIG ONE HERE: Expedited Data Collection – More information here

PG 304 Line 17-19 Government does NOT have to protect your private, share with anyone, & is not resp (more on expedited data collection)

PG 306 Line 3-6 The Government can expand the scope & size of Post Acute Program Services anytime & as they see fit.

PG 313 Line 9-14 Government MANDATES Health Services providers will state ownership, invest, & compensation arrangements.

PG 317 Line 13-20 PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Government tells Drs. what/how much they can own.

PG 317-318 Line 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion- Government is mandating hospitals cannot expand.

PG 318-319 Government is mandating how hospitals & physicians conduct business & investments. We’re next!

PG 321 2-13 Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input required. Can you say ACORN?!!

PG 328 Line 1157 Government study disguised. Its a HealthCare workforce study mandated by law for unionization.

Pg335 Line 16-25 PG 336-339 Government mandates estab. of outcome based measures. HealthCare the way they want. Rationing.

PG 341 Line 3-9 Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Adv Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing peeps in to Government plan.

PG 354 Line 1177 Government will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs people!

PG 355-369 Line 1181 Government disguises tax on Drug Companies as rebate to Government to subsidize Drugs. We pay in the end.

PG 379 Line 1191 Government creates more bureaucracy – Telehealth Advisory Committee. Can you say HealthCare by phone?

PG 399 If your a subsidy eligible individual under Medicare part D and you don’t enroll, the Government will auto enroll you.

[ITSTOCK]

PG 401 Section 1221 Americans will fund Medicare Language & Translation Services Program. Can you say MORE taxes?

PG 404 Lines 12-16 Government exempts itself again from - Chap 35 of title 44, USC including privacy of Americans.

PG 404 Lines 17-19 Government doesn’t know the cost of Language services but states that money is there.

PG 425 Lines 4-12 Government mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think Senior Citizens end of life.

PG 425 Lines 17-19 Government will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of atty. Mandatory!

PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Government provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death.

PG 427 Lines 15-24 Government mandates program for orders for end of life. The Government has a say in how your life ends.

PG 429 Lines 1-9 An “advance care planning consultant” will be used frequently as patients health deteriorates.

PG 429 Lines 10-12 “advance care consultation” may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from Government.

PG 429 Lines 13-25 The Government will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order. Logan’s Run anyone?

PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Government will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life.

PG 432 Lines 18-21 The Government will publish “quality measures” for individual’s end of life in Federal Register.

PG 434 Section 1234 Military Active, Reservists, Families - If you’re not enrolled in Tricare it is mandated.

PG 434 Section 1234 Military Active, Reservists, Families - Once HealthCare bill is passed your premiums will go up.

PG 438 Section 1236 The Government will develop a patient decision making aid program that you & Dr. WILL use.

PG 443 Lines 7-24 Government at taxpayers expense test out an “Accountable Care Org” program (Government doesn’t have plan.)

PG 444 Lines 1-6 Government’s Accountable Care Program will mandate services & infrastructure thru reward/penalty system.

PG 448 Lines 4-17 Government will set performance targets for ALL Accountable Care Organizations including private.


That is a quick summary of the first HALF. Click the link in the first post with notes to see the rest. Or click the link to the actual bill inside the link.

[Proven]

Originally Posted by CleanNeon98

But is it fair to take more money away from those who tried hard to make their 250k a year because some lazy asswipe doesn't care to better themselves? I don't think so. My thought is you are what you make yourself.

The idea of community is good but I don't think the "rich" should be responsible for giving dollars to help the "poor" live better, it gives the "poor" a sense of relaxation where they have no incentive to try and better their lives because they know someone else's tax dollars will pay for that anyway.

You want healthcare? Work for it. You want to live better? Work for it. May sound a bit barbaric to some but I think the government needs to step back a little and let people "fend for themselves".

Have you honestly ever met someone / heard of someone making 250k + that fully deserves it? Ones That didnt step on toes to get it? That didnt get LUCKY, that is also paying his workers the salaries they deserve? - the same workers that BUILT the company not just started it? Just like with what happen when the bailouts hit.. CEO's and owners gave themselves huge bonuses and then laid off employees.. this seem fair? I personally dont think it does and I thank god that our Pres. thinks the same way and is trying to do something about it.

I think Companies salaries should be controled by a % (spread the wealth).. If not greedy POS owners / ceo's will continue to keep everyone down for their own gain. If the company is truely profitable then that owner / ceo can make as much as he wants.. but his employees need to be respected and paid for.

Along with this country the government needs reform.. Obama, I feel is trying to do just that. Once he gets the greedy BS people out of his way there is no stoping this country from becoming great once again.

[bastid]

Originally Posted by Proven

Have you honestly ever met someone / heard of someone making 250k + that fully deserves it?

Clearly you don't know many people that make more than $250k or you are ignorant to how hard most people work for their keep.

Originally Posted by Proven

That didnt get LUCKY, that is also paying his workers the salaries they deserve?

"Luck is the residue of design." - Branch Rickey

If people feel they deserve more, they will either work harder to achieve it or they will vote with their feet, resign, and find an employer who will pay them what they deserve. Oh that's right, unemployment sucks! Guess they ARE getting what they deserve or they would have jumped that ship by now.

Originally Posted by Proven

Just like with what happen when the bailouts hit.. CEO's and owners gave themselves huge bonuses and then laid off employees.. this seem fair?

You are comparing folks who make $250,000 a year to folks making tens of millions per year? Seriously? The issue isn't how much a CEO makes. Those who put money in these firms (both private investors and consumers of banking services) don't HAVE to do so if they don't agree with the ethical policies of its board of trustees or any other top earners in the company.

Originally Posted by Proven

I think Companies salaries should be controled by a % (spread the wealth)

This is great news. You can live in a society where this exists today. Would you prefer China? or Cuba? I hear North Korea is great this time of year.

Originally Posted by Proven

Once he gets the greedy BS people out of his way there is no stoping this country from becoming great once again.

Gets the greedy BS people out of his way? What are you talking about? With all due respect, I think you need to read into how capitalism works as well as get a deeper understanding of the issues at hand. Didn't congress vote through the Stimulus bill without reading the fact that they themselves let these bonuses and extravagant junkets occur? Yes, yes they did.

Case in point - Let him put a salary cap of $500,000 on Bank CEOs. That'll show those greedy bastards! We'll stick it to those who have stuck it to us for all those years.

Now, tally the amount of QUALIFIED people for that position in the "Willing to work for $500,000 as the CEO of a large bank" column vs. the "Go **** Yourself" column. I'd put my lunch money on the "Go **** Yourself" column 100 to 1. No one in their right mind is going to manage 10s of billions of dollars in assets for $500k annually and be someone qualified to do so. The guy who took over AIG for $1 annually will get paid a ridiculous amount of money in the end - mark my word.

[CleanNeon98]

Originally Posted by Proven

Have you honestly ever met someone / heard of someone making 250k + that fully deserves it? Ones That didnt step on toes to get it? That didnt get LUCKY, that is also paying his workers the salaries they deserve? - the same workers that BUILT the company not just started it? Just like with what happen when the bailouts hit.. CEO's and owners gave themselves huge bonuses and then laid off employees.. this seem fair? I personally dont think it does and I thank god that our Pres. thinks the same way and is trying to do something about it.

I think Companies salaries should be controled by a % (spread the wealth).. If not greedy POS owners / ceo's will continue to keep everyone down for their own gain. If the company is truely profitable then that owner / ceo can make as much as he wants.. but his employees need to be respected and paid for.

Along with this country the government needs reform.. Obama, I feel is trying to do just that. Once he gets the greedy BS people out of his way there is no stoping this country from becoming great once again.

Yes I have, my dentist. He came here from Moscow, did his schooling all over again (mind you he was around 50 at the time), and then opened his own practice. Him and his wife run their office now, both great people, not the toe stepping kind.

**** Obama for trying to sell everyone dreams of a glorious future that will never happen at the rate he is going. **** spreading the wealth, you want something, work for it, don't expect someone to spoon feed you your sucess out of their wallet.

Guess what, people with more money have more authority, my mom works for Express Scripts..their CEOs and top managers make millions of dollars, my mom has worked there for 6.5 years and makes 13 an hour, and then pays taxes from that too, and to boot the company wants to cut their employees health benefits some more. Is there anything wrong with that? Absolutely not, CEOs and managers have the authority and can do whatever they want, I try to explain this to my mom too but she thinks its not fair, not realizing that shes not in a position to argue.

In addition, my boss makes well over 250k a year and I still get a fair salary, I'm treated well, I'm always fed on his account when I'm at work, and we generally have a good and friendly relationship. He started out working just like me and worked his way to where he is now. Additionally when business was slow he cut my hours instead of keeping me there and losing money..is that because he's a bad guy? No, it's because he owns a business to make money, not support me, though when business is good he treats me plenty well and then some.

[99blazer]

Originally Posted by Proven

Have you honestly ever met someone / heard of someone making 250k + that fully deserves it?

I would say my dad deserves every single penny that is given to him. He never went to college and it has taken him almost 25 years in the computer field to get where he is. Its an insult to say that people who make 250k+ dont deserve it because most of them do.

[Proven]

Originally Posted by bastid

Clearly you don't know many people that make more than $250k or you are ignorant to how hard most people work for their keep.

Ignorant I may be, but how many people do I need to know making over 250K though to not be? I did jump the gun with saying NO ONE earns 250K... I take that back.. From what I've seen and of course hear say leads me to believe that NOT ALL people earning over 250k deserve it.

You are comparing folks who make $250,000 a year to folks making tens of millions per year? Seriously? The issue isn't how much a CEO makes. Those who put money in these firms (both private investors and consumers of banking services) don't HAVE to do so if they don't agree with the ethical policies of its board of trustees or any other top earners in the company.

Yes, i was compairing folks making 250k to the ones making tens of millions.. not sure were you went with it after that sentence.

This is great news. You can live in a society where this exists today. Would you prefer China? or Cuba? I hear North Korea is great this time of year.

I'm not saying a doctor should earn the same as a nurse or that a store clerk should earn the same as the store owner. I'm also not saying that more of the profits should go to government. Im saying the % of whats made needs to be divided ethically within a company rather the the owner live like a pig while his workers (back bone of any company) struggle. I think it would be great if the government stepped in to make sure this doesnt happen. China, korea, cuba's government keeps that extra for themselves.

Case in point - Let him put a salary cap of $500,000 on Bank CEOs. That'll show those greedy bastards! We'll stick it to those who have stuck it to us for all those years.

Yes

Now, tally the amount of QUALIFIED people for that position in the "Willing to work for $500,000 as the CEO of a large bank" column vs. the "Go **** Yourself" column. I'd put my lunch money on the "Go **** Yourself" column 100 to 1. No one in their right mind is going to manage 10s of billions of dollars in assets for $500k annually and be someone qualified to do so. The guy who took over AIG for $1 annually will get paid a ridiculous amount of money in the end - mark my word.

well before the "ressesion" apparently there wasnt anyone qualified / smart enough to manage these banks. That goes without saying unless by qualified someone means they can make themselves millions while letting everyone else take the hit. Hopefully whoever is running these banks currently is qualified to make everyone alot of money THEN in my eyes he/she deserves tens of millions in their paycheck.

Once again I take back my statement that NO ONE deserves to make over 250k.. I was heated at the time and onlythinking of the few I know/met that in my eyes don't deserve it.

[bastid]

Originally Posted by Proven

Ignorant I may be, but how many people do I need to know making over 250K though to not be? I did jump the gun with saying NO ONE earns 250K... I take that back.. From what I've seen and of course hear say leads me to believe that NOT ALL people earning over 250k deserve it.

Do you have any personal examples, not hearsay, to prove that the most of the folks you know in your direct circle of contacts does not deserve it?

Originally Posted by Proven

Yes, i was compairing folks making 250k to the ones making tens of millions.. not sure were you went with it after that sentence.

Those who make $250k yearly are nothing like those who make $10,000,000 yearly. As far as going off on a tangent, my point is that it's a free market economy (for now). This means that if you don't like the fact that AIG pays it's executives XXXXX times the amount of income as their lowest employee, don't invest with AIG. There is a difference between running an ethical company and disparity among salaries. You don't have to do business with companies who don't align with you morally or ethically. Problem solved.

If Outback comes out of the kitchen with a steak and it has a turd on it, don't eat at Outback anymore. Same concept.

Originally Posted by Proven

I'm not saying a doctor should earn the same as a nurse or that a store clerk should earn the same as the store owner. I'm also not saying that more of the profits should go to government. Im saying the % of whats made needs to be divided ethically within a company rather the the owner live like a pig while his workers (back bone of any company) struggle. I think it would be great if the government stepped in to make sure this doesnt happen. China, korea, cuba's government keeps that extra for themselves.

This country is a capitalist country, and your views are at best socialist and at worst communist. It's a free market society, therefore government should have ZERO input as to how a company divvy's up it's profits.

If the workers feel so upset, QUIT! Get a new job. Move on. If it becomes difficult for the employer retain employees, they will suffer as a result without anyone telling them what to do with their profit. If they don't have an issue with employee turnover, I guess they are being treated and compensated fairly based on that employee's fair market value to the company.

Originally Posted by Proven

well before the "ressesion" apparently there wasnt anyone qualified / smart enough to manage these banks. That goes without saying unless by qualified someone means they can make themselves millions while letting everyone else take the hit. Hopefully whoever is running these banks currently is qualified to make everyone alot of money THEN in my eyes he/she deserves tens of millions in their paycheck.

Sure they were. And they were all operating within the rules as well. Rules that were upheld under GOP scrutiny by such folks as Barney Frank and Chris Dodd, who now adamantly deny any responsibility for shutting down any corrective legislation in the late 90s. Now, I'm a firm believer that there should be precautions taken to prevent a bubble from forming again, but it doesn't require legislation against salaries.

The bailout money and bonuses are a sleight of hand by the current administration to push very socialistic policies through and secure a re-election across the board (presidency, house, and senate). They are opportunities, not crises.

If 2-3% of American voters get money taken away from them and given to lower classes involuntarily, they are able to secure exponentially more lower-middle class votes. This is political posturing, not help or change.

Remember when Bush went into Iraq under the guise that they were partly responsible for 9/11 and could have possibly had WMDs? Same ****, different president, different issue. It's a big illusion for a larger agenda.

[Proven]

Originally Posted by CleanNeon98

Guess what, people with more money have more authority, my mom works for Express Scripts..their CEOs and top managers make millions of dollars, my mom has worked there for 6.5 years and makes 13 an hour, and then pays taxes from that too, and to boot the company wants to cut their employees health benefits some more. Is there anything wrong with that? Absolutely not, CEOs and managers have the authority and can do whatever they want, I try to explain this to my mom too but she thinks its not fair, not realizing that shes not in a position to argue.

In addition, my boss makes well over 250k a year and I still get a fair salary, I'm treated well, I'm always fed on his account when I'm at work, and we generally have a good and friendly relationship. He started out working just like me and worked his way to where he is now. Additionally when business was slow he cut my hours instead of keeping me there and losing money..is that because he's a bad guy? No, it's because he owns a business to make money, not support me, though when business is good he treats me plenty well and then some.

Your Mom is right IMO.. Hopefully if Obama works this correctly she will be in a position to argue. You mentioned that your boss started where you are now and now owns the company? Did he buy it? or is it a family thing?

The dealership I worked at the GM started off just like me. After marrying the owners daughter he was bumped to sales manager, then to GM When owner decided retired. My boss made 205k previous year (from when I found out) the owner 350k, and his daughter $20 an hour and had no position title and did nothing. Me, the next highest paid person, first in sales year after year, trained all new hires, was the "team leader", was the closer for other sales guys, prepped all units myself due to turn around in service made 32k (Un-officially I was the sales manager and deserved to be paid so) I did get health benefits after 1 year and they were terrible then would have the GM tell me how lucky I was to have them and how much money it costs him.

To my surprise the GM hired his Nephew as the sales manager who was 1 year out of high school and his salary was 50k + commissions on units sold (I know this because he was very cocky about his pay saying things like "I can't believe I only make 50k when SM's usually get 60-70k, he was upset)..
When customers would ask him (after thinking I was the manager) how did he become a sales manager so young he would say "threw hard work and dedication"..

Companies like this I think should be looked at by Government, and fixed. So when I hear about regulations, and % caps I'm all for it.

Of course not all Companies are like this and it’s a shame they wont just go after the ones that are. But, something needs to be done about it.

[frosti108]

on the taxation note, i believe we should all be taxed the same percentage... it makes sense. if you make 100,000 a year and pay 20% tax, you pay 20,000 in taxes. if you make 1,000,000 a year and pay 20% tax, you pay 200,000 in taxes... its fair, linear, consistant, no favoritism... rich people still end up paying more than poor people, but only because they make more, and no other reason.

on the universal healthcare note, i wont comment because its too complex for me to even try to think about right now. otherwise, i can agree with who ever already said this on the first page... whatever the big insurance and drug companies want is probably not whats good for the people.

also, i believe obama is trying to do the right thing for the people.

one more thing. health insurance is def too expensive as it is. doctors pay can only be dropped down if their costs are dropped down as well...

[Proven]

Originally Posted by bastid

Do you have any personal examples, not hearsay, to prove that the most of the folks you know in your direct circle of contacts does not deserve it?

Those who make $250k yearly are nothing like those who make $10,000,000 yearly. As far as going off on a tangent, my point is that it's a free market economy (for now). This means that if you don't like the fact that AIG pays it's executives XXXXX times the amount of income as their lowest employee, don't invest with AIG. There is a difference between running an ethical company and disparity among salaries. You don't have to do business with companies who don't align with you morally or ethically. Problem solved.

If Outback comes out of the kitchen with a steak and it has a turd on it, don't eat at Outback anymore. Same concept.

If Outback hid the turd within the steak no one would know, and they would continue to eat there, Do you think there should be no health department so they can do such a thing? Or is the health department another example of freedoms being violated? I mean if they serve turds and people eat it its the peoples fualt no? haha! (sorry had to laugh). Not everyone fully researches a company before doing business, it should be expected that they are running things morally, if not it should be forced that they do to "protect the people"

This country is a capitalist country, and your views are at best socialist and at worst communist. It's a free market society, therefore government should have ZERO input as to how a company divvy's up it's profits.

socialist, Companies should divvy up profits ethicly and according to work done without bias, if not, they should be forced to

If the workers feel so upset, QUIT! Get a new job. Move on. If it becomes difficult for the employer retain employees, they will suffer as a result without anyone telling them what to do with their profit. If they don't have an issue with employee turnover, I guess they are being treated and compensated fairly based on that employee's fair market value to the company.

Easier said then done. QUIT and go to another company running things the same way? QUIT and not have a job at all? Companies (like the one I worked for) ran this way for 30 years and stayed in business by surviving off turn around and the huge demand for employment. Quiting and finding another job is not always an option.. Do you not like this country and they way its going? Leave! (sounds nutty right, because easier said then done)

Sure they were. And they were all operating within the rules as well. Rules that were upheld under GOP scrutiny by such folks as Barney Frank and Chris Dodd, who now adamantly deny any responsibility for shutting down any corrective legislation in the late 90s. Now, I'm a firm believer that there should be precautions taken to prevent a bubble from forming again, but it doesn't require legislation against salaries.

The bailout money and bonuses are a sleight of hand by the current administration to push very socialistic policies through and secure a re-election across the board (presidency, house, and senate). They are opportunities, not crises.

If 2-3% of American voters get money taken away from them and given to lower classes involuntarily, they are able to secure exponentially more lower-middle class votes. This is political posturing, not help or change.

Remember when Bush went into Iraq under the guise that they were partly responsible for 9/11 and could have possibly had WMDs? Same ****, different president, different issue. It's a big illusion for a larger agenda.

When it comes to the detials your deffinetly more educated I can't lie(seriously). I only go by what I've seen / learned rather then read.

[CleanNeon98]

Originally Posted by Proven

Your Mom is right IMO.. Hopefully if Obama works this correctly she will be in a position to argue. You mentioned that your boss started where you are now and now owns the company? Did he buy it? or is it a family thing?

The dealership I worked at the GM started off just like me. After marrying the owners daughter he was bumped to sales manager, then to GM When owner decided retired. My boss made 205k previous year (from when I found out) the owner 350k, and his daughter $20 an hour and had no position title and did nothing. Me, the next highest paid person, first in sales year after year, trained all new hires, was the "team leader", was the closer for other sales guys, prepped all units myself due to turn around in service made 32k (Un-officially I was the sales manager and deserved to be paid so) I did get health benefits after 1 year and they were terrible then would have the GM tell me how lucky I was to have them and how much money it costs him.

To my surprise the GM hired his Nephew as the sales manager who was 1 year out of high school and his salary was 50k + commissions on units sold (I know this because he was very cocky about his pay saying things like "I can't believe I only make 50k when SM's usually get 60-70k, he was upset)..
When customers would ask him (after thinking I was the manager) how did he become a sales manager so young he would say "threw hard work and dedication"..

Companies like this I think should be looked at by Government, and fixed. So when I hear about regulations, and % caps I'm all for it.

Of course not all Companies are like this and it’s a shame they wont just go after the ones that are. But, something needs to be done about it.

I don't know what's hard to understand about the concept of position. People in higher positions have more authority, people working below have less authority. Don't like it? Find another job!

Americans generally want so much and want to do so little to get it. Why do you think so many illegal immigrants are doing manual labor jobs? Because they understand the concept of position, they are grateful for what they make, and they don't bitch and moan about their benefits. For instance, I own a landscaping company for instance and I am looking at 2 possible employees

a. I will pay him/her 10 dollars an hour and they will do their job every day, come in on time, and won't complain.

b. I will pay him/her 10 dollars an hour and they will be lazy and bitch about their job, have no enthusiasm about their work, and will want benefits, days off, and a pension fund too.

Last I checked, the point of having a business is to make money, so I would go with option a. Maybe your concept of business is to give your manual laborers the bells and whistles, which is why my business would suceed and yours would fail within a year. Meanwhile I'd be making money (lots of it in fact), and paying my employees what they deserve for the job they do. I'm not saying to treat employees like ****, but there's a fine line when it comes to what someone should recieve for the services they render, I don't think someone who mows lawns should recieve full health benefits, if they want to buy them, go right ahead.

[frosti108]

Originally Posted by CleanNeon98

I don't know what's hard to understand about the concept of position. People in higher positions have more authority, people working below have less authority. Don't like it? Find another job!

Americans generally want so much and want to do so little to get it. Why do you think so many illegal immigrants are doing manual labor jobs? Because they understand the concept of position, they are grateful for what they make, and they don't bitch and moan about their benefits. For instance, I own a landscaping company for instance and I am looking at 2 possible employees

a. I will pay him/her 10 dollars an hour and they will do their job every day, come in on time, and won't complain.

b. I will pay him/her 10 dollars an hour and they will be lazy and bitch about their job, have no enthusiasm about their work, and will want benefits, days off, and a pension fund too.

Last I checked, the point of having a business is to make money, so I would go with option a. Maybe your concept of business is to give your manual laborers the bells and whistles, which is why my business would suceed and yours would fail within a year. Meanwhile I'd be making money (lots of it in fact), and paying my employees what they deserve for the job they do. I'm not saying to treat employees like ****, but there's a fine line when it comes to what someone should recieve for the services they render, I don't think someone who mows lawns should recieve full health benefits, if they want to buy them, go right ahead.

you missed the point. hes saying that just because your related, doesnt mean you should be favored in a company. obviously, 'proven' thinks he is more fit than the boss's nephew for sales manager.

in the examples you cite, the nephew would be the one who wouldnt be hired...

[CleanNeon98]

Originally Posted by frosti108

you missed the point. hes saying that just because your related, doesnt mean you should be favored in a company. obviously, 'proven' thinks he is more fit than the boss's nephew for sales manager.

in the examples you cite, the nephew would be the one who wouldnt be hired...

Many things seem to work that way, just like when Obama got into office and started bringing his friends from the political world into positions in government, regardless of whether they were the best fit for the positions or not.

Higher position = more authority, and all you can do is sit back and watch it happen because nobody cares what you have to say anyway.

[frosti108]

Originally Posted by CleanNeon98

Many things seem to work that way, just like when Obama got into office and started bringing his friends from the political world into positions in government, regardless of whether they were the best fit for the positions or not.

Higher position = more authority, and all you can do is sit back and watch it happen because nobody cares what you have to say anyway.

with great power comes great responsibility. it is not responsible to promote people in a business because of their family origins. people should be promoted based on their performance. its like when george bush senior got his retarded son into office. disaster struck