Official BK Meet. Mount Laurel. Tuesday evening.

[Ciotti]

Originally Posted by CleanNeon98

Those little "trial" track days don't count, as far as I know, they have a speed limit and no passing. A real road course day requires some kind of track licence IIRC. For one, I plan to go to Pocono for a day this summer and I will be pushing my car flat out just like I did at autocross when I went, and I still consider myself a novice so your argument is void.

Brave words but unfortunately they are just that, words. The SJ SCCA Autocross event organizers I hang with are instructors for those PDX and HPDE events, and they always talk about how there are two typed of people that show up to those events... There are the ones that think they are Michael Shumacher and are going to push their cars to the absolute limit but actually end up bashing them into a wall from snap oversteer or any other handling snafu due to a lack of experience and talent. And then there is everyone else that get out there and are scared ****less (which is a GOOD thing) and they start out nice and slow but graually get faster and faster building their experience up and not wrecking their car in the process.

And for the record, autocross is just as hard if not harder on a car, end of story. The only thing that a track day is harder on is the cooling system which is only an issue if you're making tons more power than the car was designed for and haven't upgraded the cooling system appropriately. In an autocross if you are any good you are viciously throwing your car back and forth 30 - 40 times or more which is twisting up the frame, maxing the suspension, and doing many other horrible things to the car much harder than at a road course where you are easing the car into and out of every corner.

[CleanNeon98]

Originally Posted by Ciotti

Brave words but unfortunately they are just that, words. The SJ SCCA Autocross event organizers I hang with are instructors for those PDX and HPDE events, autocross is just as hard if not harder on a car, end of story. The only thing that a track day is harder on is the cooling system which is only an issue if you're making tons more power than the car was designed for and haven't upgraded the cooling system appropriately.

I'm sorry man, but a minute of autocross vs even 5 laps on a road course will do a lot more damage to the tires, brakes, etc on the road course...

[bl@ckvr4]

Originally Posted by boostinsidewayz

thats what i'm talking about, a novice driver will push the car harder when they are on a course like autox. because they don't have to worry about going into a wall.

what don't you idiots understand.

you are both agreeing with me, yet still arguing.

so art you had a license to get on etowns track? i think not, so shut up.


one last time and i'm done with this arguement because i'm right and you guys are to dumb to realize you are agreeing with me.

if you put the same driver on a autocross course and a road course. the driver will push harder on autocross because there is very little risk of serious injury, or damaging the car. yes the car takes more abuse on a road course, but its not because you are driving at the absolute limit. its because of the speed involved. just because you are going fast doesn't mean you are on the edge.

I was pushing my car 100% when I was on the track and I would consider myself a novice. I never said I had a license, so I don't know where the **** you got that **** from.

And no, I am not agreeing with you at all. It is much easier to see a real corner than a sea of orange cones to dodge, so I would be more confident heel-toeing into a real corner. I've also seen many people smash their cars into poles on youtube because they went into an AutoX corner too quickly, so don't act like there absolutely zero risk with AutoX.

And don't call me an idiot. I have been perfectly respectful and didn't resort to insulting you in any way.

[bl@ckvr4]

Originally Posted by Ciotti

I know you ran there that one time when the pace car was out there keeping everyone's speed down, but how many times have you been since? Post that **** up when you're going dude I'm sure at least a few of us will come with you.

Have you ever even tried an autocross event? I never thought I would like certain types of fish, then I tried them and they were really good.

I have only been there once, and no there was no pace car of any kind on the track that day. They released a 6-car pack every 30 seconds. We had a 6 lap session. 1 slow lap and then 5 laps as fast as you can go and not pass the car in front of you.

So what I did is I went really slowly on my very first lap to let the car ahead of me get very far away. After I finished that lap, I went balls-to-the-wall for 5 full laps without any restriction, so it was exactly like being on the track without any other cars to interfere.

Originally Posted by CleanNeon98

I'm sorry man, but a minute of autocross vs even 5 laps on a road course will do a lot more damage to the tires, brakes, etc on the road course...

+1

[Ciotti]

Originally Posted by CleanNeon98

I'm sorry man, but a minute of autocross vs even 5 laps on a road course will do a lot more damage to the tires, brakes, etc on the road course...

Ok, tires and brake pads I'll give you, but what else? And where are you getting your info from, I'm getting mine from guys that have been autocrossing for 10+ years and open track racing for 5+.

[2drStunner]

Originally Posted by screamingdsm

Hey Rich, does your car have a 4 bolt in it? Also what manifold are you going with? I would go with some 950 or 1000cc injectors, and a 255hp pump rewired. I have a pratically brand new 255hp for sale. Are you getting cams? Be prepared theres alot of **** to get, and alot of transmissions to break!

500hp at the motor should easily be done on pump gas, no meth with a good tuner. Im sure i was close to 500 on pump with my last setup.

As far as the manifold Im not sure yet. I was thinking 880's. Is that not enough? Def interested in the 255 you have for sale. Already have cams in the new motor that were putting together.

[CleanNeon98]

Originally Posted by Ciotti

Ok, tires and brake pads I'll give you, but what else? And where are you getting your info from, I'm getting mine from guys that have been autocrossing for 10+ years and open track racing for 5+.

What info? It's common sense...even 10 minutes on a track consistently pushing your car is going to put more strain on EVERY component in the car. Autocross is a great way to get into racing, and it's a lot of fun, I never said otherwise, but the arguments flying around here are pretty silly.

[Ciotti]

Originally Posted by CleanNeon98

What info? It's common sense...even 10 minutes on a track consistently pushing your car is going to put more strain on EVERY component in the car. Autocross is a great way to get into racing, and it's a lot of fun, I never said otherwise, but the arguments flying around here are pretty silly.

Apparently it's not so common because you're dead wrong

Track days are hard on tires, brakes, and your wallet (one track day costs as much as a full season of autocrossing)

[W_Evo]

It's already tuesday again? that week flew by.

[CleanNeon98]

Originally Posted by Ciotti

Apparently it's not so common because you're dead wrong

Track days are hard on tires, brakes, and your wallet (one track day costs as much as a full season of autocrossing)

More wear on all bushings (you generally go around the bends a good bit quicker than autocross), cooling system as you said, tires, brakes, engine and trans and general drivetrain (since you should spend most of your time on the track in high RPM to have peak power at all times). I'm not saying that you will wreck your engine during lap 3 of the day but that the general wear and tear increases significantly over time. It's like benching at the gym, you might be able to do 150lbs for a minute straight, but try doing it for 10, you'll feel every muscle and joint crying for help.

[Ciotti]

Originally Posted by CleanNeon98

More wear on all bushings (you generally go around the bends a good bit quicker than autocross), cooling system as you said, tires, brakes, engine and trans and general drivetrain (since you should spend most of your time on the track in high RPM to have peak power at all times). I'm not saying that you will wreck your engine during lap 3 of the day but that the general wear and tear increases significantly over time. It's like benching at the gym, you might be able to do 150lbs for a minute straight, but try doing it for 10, you'll feel every muscle and joint crying for help.

Bushings get stressed more when you go faster? I could have sworn the amount of force put on bushings only has to do with the cornering g forces being put on the car which are higher in autocross as you are throwing the car around like a rag doll. This is an example of why common sense means jack s**** and actual knowledge is all that matters.

[CleanNeon98]

Originally Posted by Ciotti

Bushings get stressed more when you go faster? I could have sworn the amount of force put on bushings only has to do with the cornering g forces being put on the car which are higher in autocross as you are throwing the car around like a rag doll. This is an example of where common sense fails and actual knowledge shines through.

Higher corner speed = more g-force. Regardless, I stick to what I said. Maintenance on road racing cars is higher than those of autocross. Ask your friends who regularly do both what it costs to maintain their cars for the season.

[Chaosweaver]

I wanna go autocrossing sometime and open track racing, never done either. I've been a 1/4 mile whore my entire life lol.

[bl@ckvr4]

Originally Posted by Ciotti

Bushings get stressed more when you go faster? I could have sworn the amount of force put on bushings only has to do with the cornering g forces being put on the car which are higher in autocross as you are throwing the car around like a rag doll. This is an example of why common sense means jack s**** and actual knowledge is all that matters.

Going into a corner at 60+mph generates a ****load more G-forces than going into a corner at ~25mph. Especially banked corners.

[Ciotti]

Originally Posted by CleanNeon98

Higher corner speed = more g-force. Regardless, I stick to what I said. Maintenance on road racing cars is higher than those of autocross. Ask your friends who regularly do both what it costs to maintain their cars for the season.

Dude just quit while you're ahead, I'm the worst person you want to be arguing with about this...

Higher corner speed has NOTHING to do with more g forces, you can generate the same amount of g force at 5 mph as you can at 500 or even 500,000. A car generates g force based upon the tire's contact patch, the car's weight, and the suspension dynamics, NOT the speed. That is a fact that is based here in the real world where I live.

Maintenance on track day cars is higher per event, but track days only happen 1/8th as much unless you have DEEEEEP pockets which none of us really have. Autocrosses happen every other week and thus the same if not more stress gets put on the car as a whole, BUT at each autocross more stress is put on the suspension, bushings, and a slew of other things due to the nature of how the cars are tossed around at solo 2 events.




EDIT: Wow, I can't believe both of you think that higher speeds have anything to do with g force, I guess that perfectly illustrates why you two are arguing what you are arguing.



I make it a point to not argue with people about things I know very little about, write that down.

[bl@ckvr4]

Originally Posted by Ciotti

EDIT: Wow, I can't believe both of you think that higher speeds have anything to do with g force, I guess that perfectly illustrates why you two are arguing what you are arguing.



I make it a point to not argue with people about things I know very little about, write that down.

I guess my physics professor gave me an 100% on that report I wrote on G-forces completely by accident.

[motorvated]

LOL Man..I go get some Taco Bell, come home and KABLAMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. It was a good read for 2 pages. I haven't done either of these things yet...so I wont put my opinion in because I have no first hand experience. The world would be a better place if other people would do the same. Now, If you want to debate about MotoCross....i can haz debatez!

[Ciotti]

Originally Posted by bl@ckvr4

I guess my physics professor gave me an 100% on that report I wrote on G-forces completely by accident.

If it had to do with lateral g forces in automobiles then the 1 most definitely should have not been in front of the 00


I base my knowledge off a mix of book smarts and actual real world experience done myself and from people I hang out with.


Race car drivers don't write reports, they're too busy banging the prom queen in the car trailer

[motorvated]

Ciotti is a LIAR. He gets everything he knows from me.

[Ciotti]

For the record, the only time speed would be the determining factor in how much lateral g force a car can generate would be if the car's front wheels only turned left and right a few degrees. Fortunately our wheels turn probably 45+ degrees in either direction and because of that we can max out the amount of lateral g's at almost any speed.


Dave, eat crap, you're not even reading my posts and I know it