The E85 thread! Tuning/Locations/ect.

[peteyturbo]

I have converted my Evo to E85 and it is the best mod I have done so far. There are many benifits and few drawbacks but the main drawback is the lack of E85 stations and innaccuracy of online sites that locate the pumps. I now have 2 pumps that I fill up at but if anyone knows any other stations please chime in!

12th & Vine Philadelphia
3.58/Gal
Lehigh Valley Service plaza on the NE extension of the turnpike
3.17/Gal.

[SovXietday]

I will buy new injectors and up the boost even more as soon as this **** comes to more gas stations around here. I can't find any that are local enough for it to be at all practical.

[Renegade_]

To the best of my knowledge, a lot of guys with SRs just dump 15% more fuel and let her rip. This looks to be promising in terms of tuning...

[SovXietday]

Originally Posted by Renegade_

To the best of my knowledge, a lot of guys with SRs just dump 15% more fuel and let her rip. This looks to be promising in terms of tuning...

E85. Pretty simple. 85% ethanol, 15% 87 octane. Octane rating, 104. Price is relatively low too. Basically, the **** is straight up cheap race gas that burns cooler than race gas.

Due to ethanol's burning properties, in order to produce the same amount of power you will need more volume of fuel. General consensus is about 15-20% more fuel. If you have a standard wideband, you can tune to gasoline AFRs because of the way the wideband interprets it's readings.

Because of the octane rating those of you with adjustable timing can also add more to make more power. In other words, you will need to tune for the fuel just like everything else. I personally wouldn't just swap to E85 with a fuel change, the considerably higher octane will need to be accounted for as well otherwise you're really just losing power. Yes, you can run more boost with E85... but you need to tune the car still.

There's a 7xxwhp hatch on this website who's using it.

Hope that answers all the questions.

[peteyturbo]

Actually closer 30% enrichment from what I have seen and its rated at 105 I believe. BUT it has a larger max power rich and max power lean window so you can run safely from about ~9.5-12.5AFR on a gas calibrated wideband and still make decent power..With such good cyl temp. cooling properties people are running as high as 13 afr's but the gain is not even all that much.
Those are just some of the benifits not to mention the inside of my exhaust tip is bling bling, no more noxious exhaust odor, and it comes from a renewable rescource..
Please no posts complaining about food for the poor going to make ethanol, it is simply not true, just a heads up

Originally Posted by SovXietday

E85. Pretty simple. 85% ethanol, 15% 87 octane. Octane rating, 104. Price is relatively low too. Basically, the **** is straight up cheap race gas that burns cooler than race gas.

Due to ethanol's burning properties, in order to produce the same amount of power you will need more volume of fuel. General consensus is about 15-20% more fuel. If you have a standard wideband, you can tune to gasoline AFRs because of the way the wideband interprets it's readings.

Because of the octane rating those of you with adjustable timing can also add more to make more power. In other words, you will need to tune for the fuel just like everything else. I personally wouldn't just swap to E85 with a fuel change, the considerably higher octane will need to be accounted for as well otherwise you're really just losing power. Yes, you can run more boost with E85... but you need to tune the car still.

There's a 7xxwhp hatch on this website who's using it.

Hope that answers all the questions.

[SovXietday]

^ Good ****, didn't know about the AFR window.

I want this stuff around here so damn bad.

[peteyturbo]

I was going to only run it when I went to the track as a race gas alternative but now that they have one near Allentown (which is where I usually go back and fourth from) has made it easier for me to run it all the time. It takes me 10 min to get to 12th and vine so it's not so bad either..I have a patch for my ecu calibrated to run with a GM Flex fuel sensor, all I need is the sensor and I can mix and match as much as I would like and let the ECU interpolate my fuel and ignition accordingly which is pretty cool, I just don't have the 3-400 to spend on the damn flex fuel sensor

Originally Posted by SovXietday

I will buy new injectors and up the boost even more as soon as this **** comes to more gas stations around here. I can't find any that are local enough for it to be at all practical.

[SovXietday]

Originally Posted by peteyturbo

I was going to only run it when I went to the track as a race gas alternative but now that they have one near Allentown (which is where I usually go back and fourth from) has made it easier for me to run it all the time. It takes me 10 min to get to 12th and vine so it's not so bad either..I have a patch for my ecu calibrated to run with a GM Flex fuel sensor, all I need is the sensor and I can mix and match as much as I would like and let the ECU interpolate my fuel and ignition accordingly which is pretty cool, I just don't have the 3-400 to spend on the damn flex fuel sensor

I have to put bigger injectors in the Civic before I can convert over. Unfortunately, 780ccs are almost tapped out just on pump.

I'd run it just on the track but I have to tune for the fuel individually. But it could definitely a possibility.

[underpressure02]

Originally Posted by SovXietday

I have to put bigger injectors in the Civic before I can convert over. Unfortunately, 780ccs are almost tapped out just on pump.

I'd run it just on the track but I have to tune for the fuel individually. But it could definitely a possibility.

How much power are you making on your sohc that you are almost tapping out 780's?

[Action Park]

93
Is it really mixed with 87? I'm not too certain on these octane ratings for e85. 104, 105? Pure ethanol has an octane rating of only 100, but has a much higher equivalency due to its latent heat of evaporization. Same with meth- actually 99 octane but in terms of an anti-detonant, it's equivalent to about 130 compared to petrol. As stated before, these alcohols also have much better rich flammibility. Meaning that "lean is mean" does'nt apply to alcohol, unlike petrol. One cant just effectively add a certain percentage of fuel based on stoic, it has to be tuned proper. Erring to the rich might just net better gains than the other way around.
93 93/93

[SovXietday]

Originally Posted by underpressure02

How much power are you making on your sohc that you are almost tapping out 780's?

Honestly, I don't know. I haven't put it on the dyno, just street tuned for now.

Hondata duty cycle is reading ~80-85% duty cycle on the injectors. 11.5s at 22psi. I would have bump to 1000s and an injector driver for E85. I don't like going much over 90% as far as injector duty cycle goes, 100% just means the injector is slammed open and there is no regulation what so ever.

[twastheglow]

Time for my question of ignorance. What all must one do when converting your car to run on E85? I don't have any near me, but when I do, it's something I'm interested in switching to. I understand larger injectors are needed to flow more fuel, (plus the proper tuning) but is that all?

[underpressure02]

Originally Posted by SovXietday

Honestly, I don't know. I haven't put it on the dyno, just street tuned for now.

Hondata duty cycle is reading ~80-85% duty cycle on the injectors. 11.5s at 22psi. I would have bump to 1000s and an injector driver for E85. I don't like going much over 90% as far as injector duty cycle goes, 100% just means the injector is slammed open and there is no regulation what so ever.

I just ask b/c I am making over 500 on 780's with 40 psi base pressure.

[SovXietday]

Originally Posted by underpressure02

I just ask b/c I am making over 500 on 780's with 40 psi base pressure.

You're engine is probably more efficient than mine, lol. That and, don't you have a 6cyl? Honestly, I don't understand how my injectors are at the duty cycle they're at either. But reguardless, I need more fuel anyway. Heck, I might just get 1600ccs so that I never have to get another pair again, injector size really doesn't matter too much.

Time for my question of ignorance. What all must one do when converting your car to run on E85? I don't have any near me, but when I do, it's something I'm interested in switching to. I understand larger injectors are needed to flow more fuel, (plus the proper tuning) but is that all?

Bigger injectors, a pump that will support the extra fuel, and tuning. You'll be able to run race gas like boost with race gas like numbers from the pump.

[underpressure02]

Originally Posted by SovXietday

You're engine is probably more efficient than mine, lol. That and, don't you have a 6cyl? Honestly, I don't understand how my injectors are at the duty cycle they're at either. But reguardless, I need more fuel anyway. Heck, I might just get 1600ccs so that I never have to get another pair again, injector size really doesn't matter too much.

Not unless honda made ls/vtec's in 6 cylinders. I would not go with 1600 if you are going to daily drive the car

[igo4bmx]

Originally Posted by underpressure02

Not unless honda made ls/vtec's in 6 cylinders. I would not go with 1600 if you are going to daily drive the car

werd injector size matters- pintles are too heavy

[SovXietday]

Originally Posted by underpressure02

Not unless honda made ls/vtec's in 6 cylinders. I would not go with 1600 if you are going to daily drive the car

Oops, confused you with the guy with the beamer build.

I haven't daily driven the car in over a year. Reguardless, it's all just random here-say and me banking ideas off myself lol. And yeah, an LSV would have made about 450ish with the setup in my car no problem.

[shuttlegoose]

i wouldn't mind doing this with my evo as well, as soon as more gas stations come around with it. my question is with all this added fuel and larger injectors in order to run 85, would it be cost effective even at say 3.50 gal if your getting worse mpg because of the increase in fuel? i don't know what type of gas mileage you are getting, i just assumed it would be less because of the added fuel. if not then e85 is where its at!!!

[peteyturbo]

Cost vs. mileage breaks about even. But you have the added performance and environmental benifits E85..

Originally Posted by shuttlegoose

i wouldn't mind doing this with my evo as well, as soon as more gas stations come around with it. my question is with all this added fuel and larger injectors in order to run 85, would it be cost effective even at say 3.50 gal if your getting worse mpg because of the increase in fuel? i don't know what type of gas mileage you are getting, i just assumed it would be less because of the added fuel. if not then e85 is where its at!!!

[TalonTsi97]

Petey good to see you around these ways again. Haven't seen your evo out in NE philly in a long time.

I'd love to set my car up for this but I'm going to wait a while longer, do more research and hope a station pops up near me. So far from what I'm seeing it seems like a great way to go.