review

[menace]

Posted for a friend

Originally Posted by franklin-hid

VENDOR REVIEW

Disclaimer:This MY personal experience at the shop. I don't own any shops nor do I dislike anyone at this shop. This is my only experience at this shop. This is NOT a flame thread. This is NOT "dont go here because they cant do anything else" thread. This IS a review that I feel like I should share with my friends/family/fellow tuners/etc.

Again this MY opinion and should be taken as only that. No one is being accused here either. Only posting what happened. Please feel free to post your opinion and what you feel about the situation

I was told by the owner of the shop, because they did not do this, that:

I CANNOT POST THIS UP!!!
I WILL NOT POST THIS UP!!
I BETTER NOT POST THIS UP!!



My personal experience:

So last Tuesday(6-24-08) I decide I will pay a visit to the shop. They had a great deal on NJTuners.com posted that we can get 3 dyno pulls for $50 on there NEW mustang Dyno, great price right? So why not. I cruise off from work to the shop.

I arrive and I'm greeted by 2 awesome lifted trucks and a few nicer cars. I park look around and the shop bays look really good. I walk inside and the store shop looks great. There were rims hanging everywhere, parts all over the wall, and a nice little section with smaller items to buy. There were also a few LCD TV's hanging off the walls. There were some VERY comfy couches with a LCD there n a PS3 to play with. Only thing was they were playing a bootleg copy of F&F:Tokyo Drift that looked like crap. Beside thats it was clean, well lit, and had a "home" feeling.

I ask about the dyno session and I'm informed there are 2 people in front of me and the owner,that operates the dyno, has stepped out for a moment. I got there pretty early and didn't mind waiting. I talk with the guys waiting and they are very excited to be there since its there first dyno experience. They ask some questions that they weren't sure about and I answer them to my best full knowledge.

Owner arrives ask who is first and we go from there. First up, 2008 BMW M5 in black, it was gorgeous. He had a full exhaust with x-pipes,y-pipes,z-pipes and any other pipe that can be done to the exhaust,lol. He also has a new chipped ECU, n a few other things I cant think of. Price tag was approached 100k. So he pulls in and starts to get on the rollers for the dyno. About 45-60 minutes later its strapped down "securely". The owner and his friend were very worried since they kept playing the guessing game on were on the ground they were going to tie it down. Machine is calibrated "accordingly" after that. He makes the first pull and the car is very beastly wiggling around and pulling forward. He makes 436?WHP on the first run. They stop the car and re-tighten everything and prepare for the 1/4 simulator. Launches the car takes it off, he goes through the few gears, sounds amazing up top, and is still pulling and wiggling. I do know that there must be some "slack" but this was more then allowable slack, IMO. I seen 700WHP cars dyno with barely and moving what so ever. Any who he pulls a mid 11 something if I remember correctly.

So up next is his friend. A 07-08? Volvo sedan that had a "R" badge. No not a ricer badge, but a OEM badge that signified it was the R-class of some sort. Im not sure which number volvo, since I'm not a fanatic, but it was really nice and clean. Its an AWD sedan so the put it on accordingly. Takes another 30-45 minutes to put it on the dyno. The guys are worried once again and start to question it as well. Ok, maybe they like taking there time, right? So there calibrate the machine again and do a pull. Car through a safety light, something to the words of "loosing traction at a high speed". They stop re-tighten everything and go again, same thing. It basically it threw the car to a "limp" mode not allowing it to get to the rev limiter. They stop again make sure everything is good, he ask the guy to sit in the car as he dynos it so he can see what happens. The guy is piss,anyone would, and the just stop on that pull. He makes about 240ish, not bad for an awd sedan with light mods.

Well my turn is up. I'm pretty scared, worried, and have the gut feeling to bail out. I ignore it and decide to dyno. I load it on the dyno. Tie it down in a somewhat acceptable time,IMO. Well he calibrates the machine and says the car doesnt feel right. sk me whats the rev limiter makes a pull. I limits at 8100ish and I make 355WHP, awesome right? WRONG. I expect to make maybe 220WHP, and knowing Mustang dynos are normally LOWER than any other dyno, so just barely breaking 200 would of made me happy. Well off he goes again, get through first, second, and third and the car shuts off. Apparently the "shop" fan in front of the car wasnt on and he said it might have something to do with it. Turn it on and go to crank. Longest 30 seconds of my life for it to crank over. He goes to pull it gain and it dies 2 times again. He cranks it and i hear the THAT noise. Every tuners nightmare, MAJOR ROD KNOCK. I tell him and he didnt hear so he revs it again to hear it. I tell him to shut it off and let it sit. He ask me to get in the cr so I can feel the car and how its acting. I knew what it was but whatever I get in. I tell him I'm one of the bigger names on our really big local forums that he has paid to be a sponsor on. First thing he says is he wont charge me for the dyno run and that he didn't do anything but dyno the car.

Obviously I'm pissed. We push the car off the dyno and push start it, since it wont crank over regularly. He expresses he understands how it feels and that he feels really sorry for me. Im kinda upset since I have to be home to pick up my daughter. He tells me should be fine as long as I dont beat on it. I beg to differ but he tries to reassure me. Fine, I give in and get in the car, oil pressure light is flashing. I let him know its flashing and ask why its flashing. He states it might not have no oil. I check seems ok. He goes inside and gets a quart of royal purple for me to use. States I should be fine as long as I dont beat on it and if something happens to call him so he can get a tow truck for me. Pissed I get in and slowly tke off staying under 3k to avoid that knock.

Well a mile down the road, what do you know, it shuts off. Not trying to crank it, I just get out and push it to the shoulder and call a tow truck. As I wait one of our very own NJTuners drives by and notices me. A few minutes later he pulls up next to me and states who he is and he knew my car from all the HIN pics he seen recently.He waits with me, even tho he has a ton of work to do on his car to set it up for a car show he needed to attend, until my tow truck shows up I thank him for waiting with me.

Well now my motor is blown and I have no explanation. I call my tuner and explain the situation to him. He quickly tells me with my numbers I put down its very clear that the load on the dyno wasnt set correctly. I ask him to explain and he tells me between every car that gets dynos a "load" must be set according to each car. Apparently little or no load was but on the car so basically it was free rolling as i dynoed. The car was tapping out at about 8200 RPM electronically, but as I'm told by many tuners when no load is set that the car continues to rev mechanically to 10,000+RPM's.

So I call mustang dyno the next day and ask to speak to someone who can tell me about the possible issues on the dyno. They explain that it normally happens when no load is set. They also begin to tell me that they are not responsible and its user error. I assure them that I want looking for anything but answers to those questions.

Well its 1 week later and still no words from them. I heard from a worker there that he wanted to talk to me. A whole week goes by so I figured I guess not. I decide to just go to the shop directly. I go after work they call him over and we starts talking.

Basically he states that the reason why my car dynoed those numbers is because he dynoed an AWD car before my car and when he dynoed my car that the settings didn't apparently change. He said he changed it but somehow the computer didnt. Im baffled by that and he tells me his mustang rep came friday and apparently fixed the issue. He explains by running in AWD mode my car was on driving one roller and that it did the 0-100 faster then it would on a regular AWD so the computer computed that it made that much power. I just couldnt accept that and explain what Mustang Corp told me. He tells me that they are wrong and to call his rep. Fine, call ur rep.

Calls him up ask him if he remember that car that blew up on the dyno and made the wrong HP. That raised a flag, basically they spoke PRIOR to the call. Not saying that he did anything wrong, but makes anyone wonder. Well we speak and tells me the same exact story. States what I was told earlier was wrong and not correct at all. FINE.

Starts messing with the dyno machine to show me the numbers. Apparently i made 370 something when it blew up, LOVELY.

Seeing that its getting no where and he keeps putting me to the side to do other things I figure I would leave.

While outside he asks me what I want him to do. I say take responsibility and just fix what broke. Not asking for a new motor, just fix it and be squared off and leave off on a good foot.

Why did I say that. Starts telling about all the things he has broken before and how he has fixed them. How he has cut checks for 150k to clients who have had issues with his security firm. How the few thousand(like $2,000 MAX) that it would cost to fix my issue wont affect but he didnt do anything so he is not. How he has been to court and hasn't lost a case so if I take him to small claims I wont win. FINE! I agree and say sure I wont sarcastically. He assures me that I wont. Tells me to stop posting on the internet the things I posted.

I ask what have I posted, since I really havent posted anything. He says that on the scion forums I posted to not go to them because they dont know what they are doing and that I said they blew up my motor. I giggle abit, knowing I had posted NOTHING like that yet alone on a SCION forum. I tell him I know exactly what he is talking about and I did NOT post it and that the post only said "Dont go to them I heard they aren't sure how to use the dyno."THATS IT.

Well I tell him that its fine don't worry about anything. I will just post this review and I wont make any accusations. He states what I posted in the begging about I cant blah blah blah.I have not made any accusations. I have posted my experience and what I have been told by tuners,shop owners, and the owner of this shop..

[CHAOS]

well that ****ing sucks man. definitely call a lawyer.

[CleanNeon98]

good thing i did go dyno my car there

[TurboTagTeam]

Did you sign a Dyno Release form? Cause if you did there is nothing you can do legally.

[menace]

this did not happen to me,It was posted for a friend. But no,the shop is so new at dynoing cars apparently,they didnt even have release waivers to sign

[peteyturbo]

Please don't refer to this place as "the shop" since there is actually a dyno tuning facility somewhat local called "the shop" as it may get mixed up with this thread...IS there a reason to not post the name of this buisness with the new mustang dyno? An online review can not be used as any detrimetal fact againt an individual as long as whats said is true.

[The Captain]

Which place is this?

[RayArroyo]

Originally Posted by peteyturbo

Please don't refer to this place as "the shop" since there is actually a dyno tuning facility somewhat local called "the shop" as it may get mixed up with this thread...IS there a reason to not post the name of this buisness with the new mustang dyno? An online review can not be used as any detrimetal fact againt an individual as long as whats said is true.

agree which shop is it i know its not "the shop" in Connecticut

[jdmwill]

Yeah I Read This On Another Site And Know Who Your Talking About. I Hope They Take Care Of This Quickly Since I Believe Their Facilities Are Pretty Awesome. And Have Excellent Potential I Say Fix It And Make It Go Away.

[lagos]

Well now my motor is blown and I have no explanation. I call my tuner and explain the situation to him. He quickly tells me with my numbers I put down its very clear that the load on the dyno wasnt set correctly. I ask him to explain and he tells me between every car that gets dynos a "load" must be set according to each car. Apparently little or no load was but on the car so basically it was free rolling as i dynoed. The car was tapping out at about 8200 RPM electronically, but as I'm told by many tuners when no load is set that the car continues to rev mechanically to 10,000+RPM's.

Hang on here a sec.... THERE IS NO WAY A DYNO CAN BLOW YOUR MOTOR.

There seems to be a ton of miss information and finger pointing done at shops by people who don't take the time to learn about cars, and rely on tuners, mechanics and dyno shops to do everything for them.

1. When you're on the dyno, the rpm is picked up by an ignition wire that gets connected to your spark plug wire. This along with your tach, provides a VERY accurate rpm of the motor regardless of engine load. Ontop of that, every car has a rev limiter that cuts ignition past the red line. Dont believe me? Put your car in neutral and floor it(lowest load possible)... youll still hit the rev limiter and your rpm will be correct. The only way to rev the motor to 10,000 rpm would be if the car was miss shifted from 4th to 2nd gear under heavy load, and even then it would register on your tach as well as on the dyno's log.

2. Even if the motor did rev to 10,000 rpm, you would be looking at damage in the head/valves, not the bottom end of the motor. Bottom end problems happen for 3 reasons... 1, lack of oil. 2, detonation. 3, mechanical failure from pushing the motor beyond its factory hp.

3. Since he mentioned scion... Im going to take a guess that he had a turbo TC with over 370whp. This is a high compression 2.4L NA motor, that the owner pushed to produce over double the horsepower that the motor was ever engineered to handle... he should be pointing the finger at himself, not a dyno shop.

4. Mustang dyno's are load based dynos. They suck for bragging rights, but are essential for tuning an ems from the ground up for different load points to simulate different driving conditions. Low load would be like driving your car down a hill, and a high load would be similar to flooring it up hill. If the dyno was set to low load, it would cause the least amount of stress on the motor possible.

5. You cant just slap on a turbo kit on your NA motor, and expect it to last forever...even if your turner, dyno shop, mechanic, etc... did everything right, there is still a good chance that the motor will blow.

[peteyturbo]

Someone should just delete this stupid post for lack of info..

[lagos]

Originally Posted by peteyturbo

Someone should just delete this stupid post for lack of info..

i dont agree.
Someone should show this thread to the original owner of the car, and make him realize that a dyno cant blow his motor.

[peteyturbo]

Obviously he lacks the necessary means This thread is nothing but heresay as no one really even knows what happened, and it assoaciates "the shop" in the post. I could care less if this guy realizes anything, and he does not seem to be asking for help so..

Originally Posted by lagos

i dont agree.
Someone should show this thread to the original owner of the car, and make him realize that a dyno cant blow his motor.

[jdmwill]

Originally Posted by lagos

i dont agree.
Someone should show this thread to the original owner of the car, and make him realize that a dyno cant blow his motor.

art i do agree with you that a dyno cant blow up your motor. but if the proper steps are not taken like strap down, load setting or knowing how to lift off the throttle when the engine starts to sing. then you would suffer the consequences.

i don't know about you guys but for me to recommend or take my personal car to a dyno shop. i have to meet ,greet and eat with the dyno place i'm dealing with. i have a handful of people i would deal with on a regular basis. some let me tune my own cars and some i let them tune it themselves.

now i was ask to post the name of the shop that's behind all of this. but it is not my story to tell. that's why i ask again for something to be worked out between the two parties involved. i personally blown my engine at a dyno and didn't blink a eye. not because im rich, i assure you im more broke than 99% of the forum members here. i just know it part of the tuning process.

[RayArroyo]

i just googled (franklin-hid blown motor) and found the dyno facility this happened at. im just happy it wasnt "the shop"

btw i read the owners response, i dont think it was the shops fault either for the car blowing up.

[MotorED]

Originally Posted by jdmwill

Yeah I Read This On Another Site And Know Who Your Talking About. I Hope They Take Care Of This Quickly Since I Believe Their Facilities Are Pretty Awesome. And Have Excellent Potential I Say Fix It And Make It Go Away.

Any reason ever word starts with a capital letter?....just curious.

[Renegade_]

Originally Posted by MotorED

Any reason ever word starts with a capital letter?....just curious.

caps filter tones it down

Just curious, which car was this and what did it have done to it?

[menace]

Like I said,just posted for a friend from another forum. The shop was Krazy House Customs in south brunswick NJ on rt 1. It wasnt a turbo Tc,It was a K-swapped civic with K-pro,exhaust and some other minor stuff tuned by Yosolo. Apparetly hes a pretty reputable K motor tuner,coming from what I hear in the Honda world. Im not personally a Honda guy.

[lagos]

Apparetly hes a pretty reputable K motor tuner,coming from what I hear in the Honda world.

Yeah, im sure the guy is a tuning god, but the point is, that even if you go to the best turner and the best dyno shop, there is still a VERY good chance youll end up with a blown motor when you decide to push it past what it was designed to do.

[lagos]

Here is a reply from the shop owner. Seems reasonable to me...

hi
first I would like to say it is kind of messed up judging a shop , on the false comments of one person. I am the owner of krazy house , and feel I should get a chance to explain.

First Franklin is right , it took us a while to strap down the m5 that was there to dyno. that is because the guy I had helping me , who is no longer with my company was to slow, there fore I had to get some one else to help.

Franklin also forgot to mention that I wasn't even taking dynos that day , and did it out of courtesy because they showed up.

Franklin also forgot to mention yes we were going slow, U would to if it was about 98 degrees in your shop, and had no reason to rush.


second what Franklin also didnt tell everyone is that even if I had no load on the dyno there would still be 1650 lbs of load from the rollers , which is still enough force for a car that only weighs according to Franklin 2200 lbs.. but my dyno was still putting an additional 340 lbs worth of load which brings it to approxx 2000 lbs..
so that is not away to blow a motor.

the reason why the calculations were wrong had nothing to do with load, but everything to do with the mathematical calculations the dyno used to calculate the hp. when U switch over from 4wd to 2wd the dyno changes all the formulas, but this time it left the inertia at #3400 lbs, although it was not seeing this much inertia it was calculating the numbers according to that, if U would like me to explain feel free to call the shop any time.


third Franklin also forgot to mention that he said his car spins to 9000 rpm with a stock brand new motor with only 45000 miles....now how does that make sense..45000 is NOT brand new?

for the 2nd run I found out according to his tach his rev limiter kicked in at 8100 rpm.
on the first run I spun it to 6000 rpm and stopped cause I told him it sounds like his motor is blowing up, he said no that's how it should sound, and his tuner said it was fine. well obviously not.

did 2 runs and truthfully, the car sounded like crap, and to my dismay I was right , the motor was blowing up...

Franklin also forgot to tell U guys when I checked his oil it was black and dirty and def thin, which is a great way to wreck bearings ..

as to the people who like to judge feel free to come to the shop and actually meet us, before U judge us.were not children . as far as his motor is concerned if I thought it was my fault I would fix it , but this is not the case. Feel free to call any time 7329519111

thanks Brandon\


as for red 96 civic, i dont know how we ripped your girl off, i thought u and her were happy with the work that was done, i also met her father who was a very nice guy, if she in any way is not happy tell her to let me know and i will get to the bottom of it. I also want to state that it doesn't seem logic that if you thought your girlfriend was getting ripped off..why you and her father would agree to the price? This shop is new and the last thing I want to do is rip people off and have a bad image..that just wouldn't make sense? This shop is something that I always wanted to do and love to do.. nothing gives me more pleasure then to see people happy with the work we've done, but guess what ...it's not what I survive on? would I like to make money..yes eventually.. but like I said before if anyone really knows me they know that I'm not in it to screw people!


by the way, everyone knows.. running on a dyno is at your risk,, and any one who knows about cars knows u cant blow a car up by not having enough load, cause alot of dynos cant even load the car properly...... as for franklin, his false accusations to try and get a free motor , and to take buisness from my shop , has already been discussed with my law firm... they assure me that its not small claims court u need to worry about , but big boy court, the kind that u will need to actually pay for a lawyer...thank u for taking the time to read this