Online voting for citizens out of the country??

[italianblaze]

SOURCE http://news.zdnet.com/2010-9588_22-6229091.html

The Democratic Party's dangerous experiment

As most of us now understand, paperless electronic voting is a really bad idea. But there is a still worse idea: voting over the Internet.

Voters may worry about whether voting machines were hacked by programmers or poll workers who have machines stored in their homes prior to an election. But with Internet voting, we must also worry about whether the system has been hacked by a teenager in Eastern Europe, organized crime, or even an unfriendly government. We must worry about network failure, denial-of-service attacks that shut down selected machines on the Internet, counterfeit Internet Web sites, and spyware or viruses on the computers used to cast votes. And we must worry about whether the people running the system are engaging in electronic ballot-stuffing.

Like whack-a-mole, Internet voting proposals have reappeared in different guises in the U.S. for much of the past decade. When an extremely ambitious U.S. Department of Defense proposal for Internet voting in the 2004 presidential election was reviewed by computer security experts, it was terminated because of security concerns documented by those experts--the same concerns that should cause all citizens to view any proposal for Internet voting with extreme skepticism.

Nonetheless, on Super Tuesday, the Democratic Party is going to deploy Internet voting. Democrats living outside the country will be treated as a 51st state, called Democrats Abroad, and will elect delegates to the convention. This approach adroitly sidesteps almost all regulation on election technology, which typically are matters of state, not Federal, law.

Internet voting won't even be subjected to the notoriously inadequate certification process that applies to almost every other voting system in the U.S. The organizers apparently maintain their confidence in the security of Internet voting by not consulting anyone who might, as happened in 2004, warn them of risks. (We know most, if not all, of the independent experts in Internet voting in the U.S., and none of them has been asked to examine this system.)

Security may not be the only issue with this system. On its Web page, Everyone Counts cites the recent "successful" election in Swindon, U.K, even though the U.K. Electoral Commission reports: "Electronic polling stations in Swindon proved more problematic, with many experiencing connectivity and application issues on polling day." For this and other reasons, the Electoral Commission recommended a moratorium on further e-voting trials in the U.K. until security and other concerns are resolved.

So, why should expatriate Democrats trust Everyone Counts with their votes? We don't know. What we've been able to discover in a few Internet searches is that the company was spun off from an Australian company (PDF) in 2003, and (as of two years ago) the majority shareholder is an Australian. In 2006, the company received an "injection of U.S. private equity" from an undisclosed source. We can't tell you which candidate, if any, the source of the private equity supports.

There are only a few delegates allocated to Democrats Abroad. So it is unlikely, but not impossible, that the delegate selection resulting from the Internet voting process will be decisive in choosing the Democratic nominee for president. Whatever the outcome, it will be impossible for a candidate to obtain a recount, because there will be no meaningful ballots to recount.

Even if Internet voting does not affect the presidential nomination, there is a big risk. Although no one will know if the votes were correctly recorded and counted, the "success" of this experiment will be cited as a reason to expand the use of Internet voting.

We understand that voting is unnecessarily difficult for many expatriate Americans. That is unacceptable. But it is also unacceptable to force citizens to trust their votes to a system that has not been demonstrated to be trustworthy. We need to consider more sensible and secure ways to assist Americans living abroad. For example, we might develop a uniform system for printing absentee ballots remotely, so that it is not necessary to mail ballots to voters weeks in advance. We might consider making deadlines for receiving voted ballots a bit more flexible. Perhaps ballots could even be delivered by FedEx or DHL.

This radically new and untested voting scheme was announced only a short time ago. Press coverage has been minimal and uncritical. Unfortunately, because voters planning to vote over the Internet no longer have time to obtain absentee ballots before the primary, it is too late to kill this dangerous proposal. We urge American expatriates to vote, however they can--even if it involves using this system--and then tell their representatives that paper ballots must be required in the future for all voters, including those outside the country.

Americans living abroad should not be treated as second-class citizens.

©2007 CNET Networks, Inc. All rights reserved. CNET , CNET.com , and the CNET logo are registered trademarks of CNET Networks, Inc. Used by permission.

Now i don't know about you guys but this disgusts me

[K-Rex]

Originally Posted by italianblaze

Now i don't know about you guys but this disgusts me

Yes how dare we try to move to the late 1990's, we should always stick to how things were done before WWII.

Seriously, its not a federal election, its an election within the Democratic party and you are talking about low numbers of "voters". Why not give it a shot and see how she goes?

[ITSTOCK]

Originally Posted by K-Rex

Yes how dare we try to move to the late 1990's, we should always stick to how things were done before WWII.

Seriously, its not a federal election, its an election within the Democratic party and you are talking about low numbers of "voters". Why not give it a shot and see how she goes?

Ah yes, leave it to the terribly naive Democratic party for this one.

The organizers apparently maintain their confidence in the security of Internet voting by not consulting anyone who might, as happened in 2004, warn them of risks.

Because remember, people don't do bad things. It's all of the other stuff that makes them do bad things. The votes are going to make people lie/hack, yes, the tallied votes. It's not the people disrupting the system, it's the system disrupting the people!


(and I don't just mean the Democrats, but rather, politics overall)

If you don't see a problem with this, there is no sense in pointing out the idiocies of it. It's not about giving it a try. We all know that internet voting is flawed.

[NJGOAT]

There are several countries, notably Switzerland and a couple of the Scandanavian countries that use dedicated voting kiosks spread throughout the country. While not as open as straight internet voting it is far more convenient than what we have now. The voting system in the US is horribly flawed and is certainly in need of an overhaul. I would have nothing against trying it out during a party primary, but this should never be done in a general election.

I would whole heartedly support internet voting, but it needs to be 100% secure. Unfortunately that last part means it will probably never happen.

[K-Rex]

Originally Posted by ITSTOCK

If you don't see a problem with this, there is no sense in pointing out the idiocies of it. It's not about giving it a try. We all know that internet voting is flawed.

Do we? I've never used it, I'm pretty sure you haven't either. Let them try it, its not the federal election.

[ITSTOCK]

Originally Posted by K-Rex

Do we? I've never used it, I'm pretty sure you haven't either. Let them try it, its not the federal election.

You're right. You can't fix stupid.

[italianblaze]

Originally Posted by NJGOAT

There are several countries, notably Switzerland and a couple of the Scandanavian countries that use dedicated voting kiosks spread throughout the country. While not as open as straight internet voting it is far more convenient than what we have now. The voting system in the US is horribly flawed and is certainly in need of an overhaul. I would have nothing against trying it out during a party primary, but this should never be done in a general election.

I would whole heartedly support internet voting, but it needs to be 100% secure. Unfortunately that last part means it will probably never happen.

exactly my point which is why i dont think it should happen but who knows the system is ****d as is

[K-Rex]

Originally Posted by ITSTOCK

You're right. You can't fix stupid.

So let's not try right? Let's not use it in a really small way and get some hard data back on it? Lets just forsake it because 2girls1cup is the epitome of the internet and the best it will ever do.

I'm not saying use it in the general election. Let the dems give it a whirl, odds are its not a good system, but goddamn give it a test run. Again, the dems (and republicans) can pick their candidates any way they want and the internet seems to be pretty popular these days, or so I'm told.

This is not the be all end all of the American election system.

And while we are on the topic of election systems or the general elections, I'm a big fan of Instant Run Off Voting. Imagine being able to rank your candidates! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant-runoff_voting

[OptiCon]

They probably hope to prove it possible and push for it in a national election in the future.
Making it easier for millions of WOW addicts to vote without getting off their pimply asses.

That should give the democrats better voter turnout.
And politicians could start promising power-ups instead of tax incentives.

[K-Rex]

Originally Posted by OptiCon

They probably hope to prove it possible and push for it in a national election in the future.
Making it easier for millions of WOW addicts to vote without getting off their pimply asses.

That should give the democrats better voter turnout.
And politicians could start promising power-ups instead of tax incentives.

Its funny you mention that because I work in education, and just got an email today from some teachers who are going to have a lunch time seminar on how to use Second Life as an educational tool.

Jesus Christ.

[OptiCon]

Ask if anybody ever thought about using an abacus as an educational tool.