Official BK Meet. Mount Laurel. Tuesday evening. - Page 619 - TriStateTuners.com :: Home of Tristate Auto Enthusiast

Ciotti · 03-17-2009, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bl@ckvr4

It's true that F1 drivers are always on the limit of traction. However, in WRC, they are always past the said limit of traction. In fact, they rarely get any traction what-so-ever. Thus, making WRC more unpredictable.

It's actually really funny that you mention unpredictability, rally cars have a much wider range of slip angle that they operate at because they are not nearly as close to the limit of available traction so they can make little mistakes and get away with it, F1 cars are absolutely perfectly at that limit which means that even the tiniest mistake is amplified MUCH more so they are actually much more unpredictable.

And for the record, sideways or not, if you're past the limit of traction, your car is no longer cornering and has begun to travel in a straight line.

bl@ckvr4 · 03-17-2009, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciotti

It's actually really funny that you mention unpredictability, rally cars have a much wider range of slip angle that they operate at because they are not nearly as close to the limit of available traction so they can make little mistakes and get away with it, F1 cars are absolutely perfectly at that limit which means that even the tiniest mistake is amplified MUCH more so they are actually much more unpredictable.

The main aspect of unpredictability of WRC doesn't come from the cars; it comes from the environment. The mistake amplification that is associated with F1 also comes from the considerably higher speed that F1 is capable of. If anyone thinks that a pristine race track is more unpredictable than a backwater rainforest or a snowy mountain pass, then they are simply avoiding the facts.

As for the drifting argument, I don't know any one person that drifts on a dirt course. Sliding a car on tarmac and on dirt are two totally different animals.

Ciotti · 03-17-2009, 03:12 PM

The snowy mountain pass is nothing compared to 30 other cars trying to late brake each-other into the next corner to get past in open wheel cars where if you touch each-other there's a %50 chance you're going shiny side down with no roof.

I know rally cars seem to be much more out of control and twitchy and you would think that takes a whole other level of skill, but buy a rear wheel drive car and start drifting, you'll see that when you have angle on it is actually very driveable and there is quite a bit of leeway to the drift, then go autocrossing for a while and you'll see that when you're grip driving at the limit there is no leeway at all. Ask Sean about that :-O

motorvated · 03-17-2009, 03:15 PM

If anyone thinks that a pristine race track is more unpredictable than a backwater rainforest or a snowy mountain pass, then they are simply avoiding the facts.

A lot of tracks arent 'pristine" in any way. Not to mention they race in the pouring rain. So if you want to talk about unpredictability..... Open wheel car, 25+ cars in a turn, down pour, slicks. haz fun

CleanNeon98 · 03-17-2009, 03:17 PM

So anyway who's coming tonight...

black69demon · 03-17-2009, 03:20 PM

Tiny will be there tonight

Ciotti · 03-17-2009, 03:25 PM

So will Ciotti

Quote:

Originally Posted by motorvated

A lot of tracks arent 'pristine" in any way. Not to mention they race in the pouring rain. So if you want to talk about unpredictability..... Open wheel car, 25+ cars in a turn, down pour, slicks. haz fun

Not to mention every time someone drops a wheel off and kicks up dirt or clay onto the track surface, slicks aren't meant to deal with that, rally car tires are meant to deal with every surface possible so no matter what they encounter they will have grip available.

pandabeartsi · 03-17-2009, 03:30 PM

so will panda

CleanNeon98 · 03-17-2009, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by black69demon

Tiny will be there tonight

Bringing your friend again?

Quote:

Originally Posted by pandabeartsi

so will panda

I must find!

Kevin · 03-17-2009, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bl@ckvr4

It's supposed to fairly nice tonight. What car you bringing?

Idk if I'm coming now, just found out about a party at Widener tonight. We'll see, I'd be bringing the black one. Just finished the red one last night.

JerseyTuscani · 03-17-2009, 03:39 PM

i will be there maybe with a passenger ;)

Chaosweaver · 03-17-2009, 03:40 PM

So will Erick...

Not that it matters if I show up or not... I'm the lonely 2G DSM... Art, bring yours out lol.

bl@ckvr4 · 03-17-2009, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motorvated

A lot of tracks arent 'pristine" in any way. Not to mention they race in the pouring rain. So if you want to talk about unpredictability..... Open wheel car, 25+ cars in a turn, down pour, slicks. haz fun

Tracks on which F1 events take place on are prepped the day before the event. There is no way a WRC course can be prepped. Animals can also run onto the track at anytime during a race.

motorvated · 03-17-2009, 03:41 PM

I'll be there..also with a passenger.

Im supercharger shopping. I just got the itch...

bl@ckvr4 · 03-17-2009, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaosweaver

So will Erick...

Not that it matters if I show up or not... I'm the lonely 2G DSM... Art, bring yours out lol.

lol, the VR4 will be out. The Eclipse definitely will not.

Ciotti · 03-17-2009, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bl@ckvr4

Tracks on which F1 events take place on are prepped the day before the event. There is no way a WRC course can be prepped. Animals can also run onto the track at anytime during a race.

Put those animals into 30 other 1,000 horsepower 1300 pound cars on track at the same time and you've got F1 racing

JKZ · 03-17-2009, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motorvated

I'll be there..also with a passenger.

Im supercharger shopping. I just got the itch...

Why! Turbo the miata

motorvated · 03-17-2009, 03:53 PM

SC seems awesome to me. Ive had turbo cars, and SC cars. Ide just like a little extra power coming out of turns. I can SC my car and put down 180 WHP. In a 2000 pound car, what a blast that would be. Instant throttle response, very simple install. Not to mention you can get a SC with FMIC for $1500 any day of da weekz.

JKZ · 03-17-2009, 03:59 PM

Welp... Ok
If you want a hand installing it, let me knowz
Screamingmiata
^^^ New name

motorvated · 03-17-2009, 04:02 PM

Havent done anything as of yet. Weighing my options here. SC just seems the way to go for a budget roadster. Cheap, easy 180 hp. Yes please.

03-17-2009, 03:12 PM	#12363
Ciotti Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: is everything (Cherry Hill) Member #8225 My Ride: 96' Cobra Vert iTrader: (0)	The snowy mountain pass is nothing compared to 30 other cars trying to late brake each-other into the next corner to get past in open wheel cars where if you touch each-other there's a %50 chance you're going shiny side down with no roof. I know rally cars seem to be much more out of control and twitchy and you would think that takes a whole other level of skill, but buy a rear wheel drive car and start drifting, you'll see that when you have angle on it is actually very driveable and there is quite a bit of leeway to the drift, then go autocrossing for a while and you'll see that when you're grip driving at the limit there is no leeway at all. Ask Sean about that :-O __________________ Ciotti Industries: To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures. 8 reps for your driver mod muscles To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures. When something has foibles and won't handle perfectly, that gives it a particularly human quality as it makes mistakes. That's how we can build a relationship with a car that other people just won't get - Jeremy Clarkson

03-17-2009, 03:15 PM	#12364
motorvated Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Olde City PA Member #9779 My Ride: 2010 VW Jetta 2.5, 5 speed/ 73 VW Beetle drop top. iTrader: (0)	If anyone thinks that a pristine race track is more unpredictable than a backwater rainforest or a snowy mountain pass, then they are simply avoiding the facts. A lot of tracks arent 'pristine" in any way. Not to mention they race in the pouring rain. So if you want to talk about unpredictability..... Open wheel car, 25+ cars in a turn, down pour, slicks. haz fun __________________ TST....where everybody swings on nuts.

03-17-2009, 03:17 PM	#12365
CleanNeon98 TST Ruined My Life! Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Philadelphia Member #2029 My Ride: "Honey Badger" Turbo Miata iTrader: (8)	So anyway who's coming tonight... __________________ 2004 MAZDASPEED MX-5 : 328whp / 308wtq / 2500lbs 2012 Toyota Prius 2 : Daily Driver

03-17-2009, 03:20 PM	#12366
black69demon Tri-State Aficionado Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: BLACKBORO Member #6464 My Ride: 2006 SUB PREZA WRSTI iTrader: (0)	Tiny will be there tonight __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures. The 380lb black STRIP SHOW! Call for bookings To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures. .

03-17-2009, 03:30 PM	#12368
pandabeartsi Tri-State Addict Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: jersey Member #10802 My Ride: 91 tsi AWD iTrader: (1)	so will panda __________________ PS- Im a girl To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

03-17-2009, 03:39 PM	#12371
JerseyTuscani Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: in my own mind. Member #968 My Ride: Heron White G8 GT iTrader: (1)	i will be there maybe with a passenger ;) __________________ I own quick cars but never go WOT Race me and I'll be the hottest thing you'll ever see in your rearview mirror

03-17-2009, 03:40 PM	#12372
Chaosweaver Tri-State Aficionado Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Camden County Member #10667 My Ride: 1995 Eagle Talon TSI iTrader: (0)	So will Erick... Not that it matters if I show up or not... I'm the lonely 2G DSM... Art, bring yours out lol.

03-17-2009, 03:41 PM	#12374
motorvated Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Olde City PA Member #9779 My Ride: 2010 VW Jetta 2.5, 5 speed/ 73 VW Beetle drop top. iTrader: (0)	I'll be there..also with a passenger. Im supercharger shopping. I just got the itch... __________________ TST....where everybody swings on nuts.

03-17-2009, 03:53 PM	#12378
motorvated Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Olde City PA Member #9779 My Ride: 2010 VW Jetta 2.5, 5 speed/ 73 VW Beetle drop top. iTrader: (0)	SC seems awesome to me. Ive had turbo cars, and SC cars. Ide just like a little extra power coming out of turns. I can SC my car and put down 180 WHP. In a 2000 pound car, what a blast that would be. Instant throttle response, very simple install. Not to mention you can get a SC with FMIC for $1500 any day of da weekz. __________________ TST....where everybody swings on nuts.

03-17-2009, 03:59 PM	#12379
JKZ Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: May 2007 Member #5035 My Ride: Z32 TT iTrader: (1)	Welp... Ok If you want a hand installing it, let me knowz Screamingmiata ^^^ New name __________________ Snailz

03-17-2009, 04:02 PM	#12380
motorvated Tri-State Post Whore Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Olde City PA Member #9779 My Ride: 2010 VW Jetta 2.5, 5 speed/ 73 VW Beetle drop top. iTrader: (0)	Havent done anything as of yet. Weighing my options here. SC just seems the way to go for a budget roadster. Cheap, easy 180 hp. Yes please. __________________ TST....where everybody swings on nuts.

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