Is there anything faster?

[wgknestrick]

Originally Posted by licensedtothrill

Got to love muscle cars but; if Chevy could pull the hp per liter that Hondas formula 1 Car does a standard 302 motor would be pushing something around 3200hp.

How did we fall so far behind the rest of the world in engines and technology?

NASCAR.

Every other country has a legitimate race series where they actually race stockish cars with stockish engines. This helps to further develop that countries' technology within it's manufactures.

We have tube frame cars with carb'd V8s

[Raven18940]

Originally Posted by PA Z06

I didnt think I implied torque is the end all, be all of racing ?

Hmmmmm, I guess not, not sure why I went on that little rant.

[twistedlanes]

I have a question. I just read all of these posts and I wanted to know, if an srt-4 isn't muscle and these 84+ cars aren't muscle what exactly are they? They definitely aren't tuners, well maybe an srt-4 but the sound it makes kinda rules that out, and as far as anything being faster, I think we have to define what we mean by fast. What form of fast are we looking for drag fast, x-cross fast the Nurburgring thing fast etc. I just want something that'll beat my friends at the track but you may want something else....


oh and on the Viper..M3...etc. thing I'ma have to agree with the last couple of posts, it depends on your tastes, your budget and your agenda.

[enigma]

Most of the 84+ cars were so restricted by smog crap that you were pretty much screwed when it came to power mods. Excluding the GN's and a few other cars.
I would consider certain G- an f bodies musclecars, with the right mods.
It all depends on what your tastes are. There are even a few cars out of the late 70's that look "okay"
On the whole HP per litre deal, you add a can add a big honkin turbo to a 347 ford stroker, and wind up in the neighborhood of 1600 hp. Thats around 290 hp/liter. With a torque band to match. Thats really a moot point, hp/litre. Just about any motor can make insane power, just depends on what you are willing to do to it. Once you reace a certain point of power to displacement, its gonna cost you buku bucks anyway you look at it. Case in point, my 428 stroker motor is gonna cost me around 15g's in the end, but when all is said and done, i'll have well over a thousand hp if I decide to go forced induction. Power that i can romp on at the track and will nearly never have to worry about stuff breaking.
Don't get me wrong, i like my talon, but there is nothing like stabbing the pedal of a car with gobs of torque, and gobs of hp to match. The things just get up and go.
On euro cars, people want power with all the creature comforts, thats why they pay through the nose for them(and taxes too)
I like the fact that up until a year ago, there was still an "american" company offering a cheap well power'd car.

[Reidonly]

Originally Posted by silver05bullet

The only thing is they are just big ass V-8's prducing horsepower when my puny 2.0 Turbo can make as much power as alot of these 4.6, 5.0 or bigger engines, therefore the 2.0 engine is way more efficient the liter to horsepower ratio is way bigger

also think that with todays gasoline prices we are seein more efficient smaller engines producing as much if not more power as the big old school boys

My 350hp "old school muscle" got 27mpg on my last trip to NY doing 85-90mph the whole way, passing people without using cruise, with the AC on full blast (in August at that) and a trunk full of luggage.

If I actually used cruise and kept it around 70-75mph, 29-30mpg is more than easily attainable in these cars.

[Buster]

There is no such thing as muscle anymore. Its the truth and people should get used to it. Muscle cars were sheer unbridled power with no real comforts. Wheat do we consider muscle now? Late camaros/firebirds/TAs, Vettes, Cobras, Vipers, and GTOs? wheres the sheer power. where is the large displacement and roll down windows. The viper is the only thing that comes close to it and is still closer to a super car than anything. the muscle car era died back in the late 70s its not coming back. technology is whats driving anything now.

[ITSTOCK]

Yes, muscle cars are defined by early 60's through early 70's, that were basically only meant to go fast in a straight line. It's the days when you could get a no options, factory race car that was allowed to drive on the street.

Needless to say, they haven't been around in a while. And the Viper was designed to compete with super cars, is a 2 seater, a "sports car". It was originally conceived to bring back the idea of a muscle car, but a muscle car it isn't.


BTW, my 03 cobra got over 20mpg around town and upper 20's on the highway. I would say that is pretty good for a 4000#, 550rwhp (660rwhp on spray) car. I would say that a STOCK BLOCK (100% unopened) 4.6litre making well over 660rwhp (I never got it dynoed with the new blower, but had used the same shot on the street, so it was probably more like 700rwhp) is pretty good. There have been 100% untouched 03 cobra engines that are making 900rwhp RELIABLY (and there still are, just go to modularfords.com), and over 1100rwhp (actually some have hit closer to 1500rwhp with only 4.6).

You have to remember that your little 2.0 is in a 2000# car, while the 4.6 is in a 4000# car. Apples to oranges, but in the end, sure, it's close to the same when you take in relative PERCENTAGES AND RATIOS.

[ToTheIX's]

actually the curb weights are about 3263 compared to 3665....but yea, im not goin back into all the posts and arguing.....i just have to stand up for the evo, its required

[ITSTOCK]

Originally Posted by ToTheIX's

actually the curb weights are about 3263 compared to 3665....but yea, im not goin back into all the posts and arguing.....i just have to stand up for the evo, its required

It was an obvious exaggeration, but point is, two different kind of cars, one of which is considerably heavier. Also, the newest Evo's that are out right now have a curb weight of right below 3100 loaded, the older ones (92???) were well under 3000, closer to 2700. At least using comparable data (from equal sites) to compare.

[1_badimport]

ther is no comparison ..eventually when you get older and find out that imports are good for driving to and from work and as a weekend beater ..you just cannot compete with the sbc ..especially rwd ..
if you want to go fast and have great handling the baddest /cheapest cars on the road are swapped fd rx7,s with ls1/ls6 motors light quick,relable power and handling ..
if you want to beat your buddy at the track get a mustang best bang for buck around ..imports are great to a certain point then they show ther weaknesses ...fragile parts and breakage ..
theres arguments for how baad my evo is bu tthe really fast one cost an arm and a leg and dont stay together long ..
i have hundreds of passes on my v8 rx7 w/o problems running in the high 8,s there are verry few imports that can boast that ..

[Mach1]

how about a 450HP 1.8L turbo AWD Ford? that does 0-60 in 2seconds flat?



from 1986........

Google: RS200 Evo

[PhillyLS1]

with all the crap I have done I still get 26mpg.

However I don't really even care about that. I care what the scoreboard flashes at the end of the 1/4, what it beats light to light, and how it affects my wallet getting there. I still have my stock trans after a jizzilion 1/4 and dyno passes and 600+ hp.
I also feel like less moving parts is more reliable. 1 cam, 1 time'n chain, 16 valves. Super efficient? No. Fast? Yes. Reliable? Yes. Expensive? No.

[fsburnout216]

i dont care what anyone thinks. cause me personally will never drive one of those silly little 4 cylinder toys. american muscle sounds better then any engine out there. how many video are there of people throwing LS7s into anything they can. and LS1s go into like everything. looks good sounds good and makes the entire car shake at an idle. cant be beat

[Signatus230]

Originally Posted by fsburnout216

i dont care what anyone thinks. cause me personally will never drive one of those silly little 4 cylinder toys. american muscle sounds better then any engine out there. how many video are there of people throwing LS7s into anything they can. and LS1s go into like everything. looks good sounds good and makes the entire car shake at an idle. cant be beat

You sir, are why I pity most muscle car enthusiasts. They are so damned narrow minded sometimes... its sad.

Not all are like that however.

[xEJ20x]

Ugh....this thread again.....

[Instigator1225]

Originally Posted by fsburnout216

i dont care what anyone thinks. cause me personally will never drive one of those silly little 4 cylinder toys. american muscle sounds better then any engine out there. how many video are there of people throwing LS7s into anything they can. and LS1s go into like everything. looks good sounds good and makes the entire car shake at an idle. cant be beat

all i have to say is ...

5200 bucks
10.48 at 14X.XX
4 banger
driven daily

pwns american muscle.

[Evo8kid]

my internet is faster

[Keeper1343]

i dont feel like readin all the pages... But the Srt's and Cobalts are definitly NOT muscle. They are tuner cars. Just like honda, Subies etc... I personally don't like to own muscle cars cause its all bark no bite (for the most part). They have these huge motors that sound nice but don't do anything. Not to mention all the gas guzzling while they are doing nothing. I simply don't like them cause they lack technology. Not to start anything but you can take a civic and put a H22 in it with a B series trans and turbo with stock internals and run what?? i think low 11's high 10's if you can get the power to the ground. Still pulling off about 20-25 MPG

[05GT]

Originally Posted by Instigator1225

all i have to say is ...

5200 bucks
10.48 at 14X.XX
4 banger
driven daily

pwns american muscle.

I think this thread is just lame, but seriously, your comment is just retarded.

I can put less than $5k into my car, make it run 10's and still daily drive it.

Plus, I'd like to know exactly what 4 cyl car you are talking about? Not because I don't think it can be done, but because I think you are leaving out details.

[xEJ20x]

Originally Posted by 05GT

I think this thread is just lame, but seriously, your comment is just retarded.

I can put less than $5k into my car, make it run 10's and still daily drive it.

Plus, I'd like to know exactly what 4 cyl car you are talking about? Not because I don't think it can be done, but because I think you are leaving out details.

Evo most likely....