Is there anything faster?

[Fourbanger]

My new dream car:

[Fourbanger]

beastiality

[Fourbanger]

All created well at least designed by a...... south african who's only schooling was at an art school were he learned how to desing cars no degree.

[Prototype240]

Hahaha...now that's a 180 if I've ever seen one! Veyron's been my "Unachievable dream car" for a while now.

Per supercars.net:

engine Quad Turbo W16
valvetrain DOHC 4 Valves / Cyl w/VVT
displacement 7993 cc / 487.8 cu in
bore 86 mm / 3.39 in
stroke 86 mm / 3.39 in
compression 9.0:1
power 646.5 kw / 987 bhp @ 6000 rpm
hp per litre 125.25 bhp per litre
bhp/weight
torque 1250 nm / 922.0 ft lbs@ 2200-5500 rpm
drive wheels Mid Engine / 4WD
front wheels F 52 x 23.5 cm / 20.5 x 9.3 in
rear wheels R 54 x 32.5 cm / 21.3 x 12.8 in
front tire size PAX 245/690R520
rear tire size PAX335/710R540
weight 1888 kg / 4162 lbs
transmission 7-Speed DSG
top speed 407.2 kph / 253 mph
0 - 60 mph 2.5 seconds

[licensedtothrill]

Got to love muscle cars but; if Chevy could pull the hp per liter that Hondas formula 1 Car does a standard 302 motor would be pushing something around 3200hp.

How did we fall so far behind the rest of the world in engines and technology?

[Raven18940]

Originally Posted by licensedtothrill

How did we fall so far behind the rest of the world in engines and technology?

Pushrods and 2 valves per cylinder. ;)

[OptiCon]

Just a cool bit of info sparked by something i read in this thread...

Originally Posted by Prototype240

hp per litre 125.25 bhp per litre

Shelby/Lotus/Dodge's TIII came from factory with 102hp per liter back in the early 90's. And the current hp record for the same motor is 227whp PER LITER (the guy lives in Quakertown too).

A 5.0 mustang needs to be over 1000whp before it has the same ratio. Craaaazy.

And now, back to your regularly scheduled thread...

[OptiCon]

Originally Posted by licensedtothrill

Got to love muscle cars but; if Chevy could pull the hp per liter that Hondas formula 1 Car does a standard 302 motor would be pushing something around 3200hp.

How did we fall so far behind the rest of the world in engines and technology?

Chevy doesn't make a Formula 1 car. And Formula 1 technology is FAR too complex and expensive to make available to consumers in economy cars. That’s why euro crap costs as much as a damn house.

In the money-heavy world of racing, anything goes. But in a consumer market there is such a thing as over engineering. Americans like things simple. We either like to work on and modify our own cars or drive a cheap appliance until it bites the dust... Not pay a specialized service tech $130 for an oil change.

My dream car is a Nissan Pulsar GTiR. 2200lbs, AWD, 2.0 turbo with potential. Screw the Bugatti. Copious amount of money don't impress me near as much as a 400whp economy car.

[2point4DSM]

Originally Posted by licensedtothrill

Got to love muscle cars but; if Chevy could pull the hp per liter that Hondas formula 1 Car does a standard 302 motor would be pushing something around 3200hp.

How did we fall so far behind the rest of the world in engines and technology?

Who said we were ever ahead. Mercedes invented the modern motor, Bosh invented the injectors, and we have been copying from those guys the whole time since. I know mitsu has the patent for balance shafts.

Btw, it was interesting to see on the discovery channel (?) that our rocket technology and NASA was actually started by German scientist that use to work for Hitler. After the defeat of the Nazis America took half and the Russians took the other half of the scientist and technology.

[max2k1]

Sorry this is late, but I hate the Bugatti. Ill take a Saleen S7 twin turbo over that car any day

[Broken5hift]

porsche GT3? anyone?

[slavetothemuzic]

Originally Posted by 2point4DSM

Btw, it was interesting to see on the discovery channel (?) that our rocket technology and NASA was actually started by German scientist that use to work for Hitler. After the defeat of the Nazis America took half and the Russians took the other half of the scientist and technology.

Very true. We grabbed a whole bunch of Nazi scientists at the end of WWII.

In the words of Richard Jeni "We might not think of an idea first, but we'll figure out a way to f**k it up and sell more of it."

[OWENthatsmyname]

whats wrong with the bugatti veyron? i must admit it does look kinda ugly, but its Speed LIMITED to 253mph. it can go faster......... rediculous....... 4 turbo chargers, 10 radiators 16 CYLINDERS!

[max2k1]

i think the saleen is a better car...with only a twin turbo v8 the saleen can get over 240mph while the veyron is has 16 cyliner quad turbo setup and going 253mph. I just feel that the Veyron is way too hyped up

[2Mopars1Ford]

A thread four pages long about muscle cars, and none of the cars mentioned make me think of one.
I still think of muscle cars as the old school pre 74 cars.
Nothing beats the sound of one of those.
Heres a list of the members cars I grabbed off of one of the other forums I post on when I think of the term "muscle car"
---6 second Zone ---
6.69 @ 207 Allen Johnson, 2005 Dodge Stratus 500ci PS Hemi
6.49 1/4 4.45 1/8 1.03 60' 85 ss 526 blown alan johnson hemi gator(jerry Farmer va)
---7 second Zone ---
7.21 @ 193, 1.11 60', Hemifred, turbo Road Runner
7.41 @ 180.01, HMcCandless Jr, 540 indy, dragster.
7.68 @ 179.31, 1.08 60', 572stealth, '92 Dodge Daytona 572 B1MC, torqueflight, 2330#
7.91 @ 181, 1.27 60', valiant65, 65 Valiant, 3319#, twinturbo 353B1BA + lenco 5-speed
7.95 @ 168.56, 1.173 60' 408 cubes, Indy headed, fuel injected on alcohol,slingshot383

---8 second Zone ---
8.02 @ 174+, The Haze, twin turbo 452", Charger
8.13 @ 168, 1.165, 412ci all motor, glide, Dodge Omni
8.14 @ 169,with fogger and plate,Leon Hudson, 65 Barracuda
8.178 @ 167.12, 1.139 60', B1 Ken, '88 T-Bird, 2430#, 511 B-1 w/ Glide
8.180 @ 165, SG303, 91 Daytona, 2420# 572 single 4, glide, just motor
8.24 @ 163, 1.15 60', Rapid588, 93'Dodge Stealth, 2490#, motor only.
8.36 @ 164, JoeZ, 1972 Challenger, 451 B1 Nitrous, 727, 10.5" tire, 3005#
8.48 @ 160, sp6162, 80 Omni, 2170#, 500cu, Indy-1,/glide.
8.52 @ 156.4, 1.17 60',SB412DUSTER 72 Duster,5.33 @ 126-1/8, 4link B/half 2424# 412/W7 NO P/A
8.57 @ 161, W8Duster, '71 Duster, 430 W8, single stage fogger, 'Glide, 29x10.5 (non W), 3350#
8.62 @ 157, TwinDick Racing, 73 Duster, 528, B1, Nitrous, Turbo 400, 10.5w 3340#
8.68 @ 156, "Tazmaniac" 1971 Challenger, 500 B1, Powerglide, 2650#
8.77 @ 153.16, Gregsdart, 65 dart ,528cu 440-1, 3000#, 2780 den altitude. NA 6/26/04
8.78 @ 160.34mph Lenny Melton 1968 DART 3,540lbs 10.5 ET streets. This is areal street driven car.
8.78 @ 153.71 mph, Pittsburghracer, 91 daytona 499 rb 440-1 unported .690 roller 2400# with driver
8.781 @ 155.13, 1.261 60', Hemifred SOX&MARTIN DUSTER
8.908 @ 150.40, 1.245 60', RT540, 69 Coronet, 2840#, 540" B1BS-727TF
8.94 at 150, 1.25 60', B1duster, 498-1, 200 shot, 3000lb, 4.56, 14.5-32s

---9 second Zone ---
9.063 @ 146.23, Beeracuda, 74 Barracuda, 2800#, 499/PG
9.08 @ 149.75, Megadart, 422" W5 headed sb, all motor, #2540
9.096 @ 146.79,MoparRacer99,68 Charger,2900#,547"/pg
9.100 @ 149.51, NHRAMARK, 70 Duster, 3050 lbs, 540" Indy
9.11 @ 145,Bill_LBSR, 68 Dart 3400 lbs 499/PG
9.14 147mph, Renegade5047, 69 dart 470 cu in, P/G,2520 lbs.
9.19 @ 139.66, Bigcube '69 Dart , 2800#, all motor, Indy 557cid
9.27 @ 144.50, 572charger 3850#, pump gas, 10.5street tires /4 1/2 " exhaust w/tail pipes/ 125 hp shot on leaf springs/ driven daily / not a race car !
9.29 @ 143.8, 1.27 60', BEST MACHINE, 65 Coronet 3460# 511,B1BS,10.5W,3.5"X pipe w muffs, All Motor and Foot Brakin
9.33 @ 142, 1.23 60', 1BADLILCHARGER '81 Charger 2300#, 440/727w/brake, Eddys,
9.34 @ 144.97, TheOtherDodge,498, Auto, 3450 lbs, true 10.5 tires, through the mufflers
9.35 @ 144.66, Bad66, '66 Dart GT, 471 B1 stroker...,all throttle no bottle
9.43 @ 126, sloride, shutoff @ 1000', testing 70 cuda 572 indy head 3500# street trim w/225 shot, 9.99 @ 136 on motor
9.47 @ 142.5, MR P BODY, 395 ci W-2 2430#
9.582 @ 140.82 Eric, 81 Arrow 2354# tired 440 SR motor..
9.59 @ 142, Biginchmotor, 72 Barracuda, 3000#, 500 inch motor, 727 auto no trans brake, super stock springs, 4.30 gear
9.61 @ 140.55, HEMI71GTX... all throttle no bottle, 500ci, 4link, PG, 3075, 4.56's, 440-1's, Megablock, 3075 with me in it
9.682 @ 136.6, 1.330 60', 440Jim, '69 Dart GTS, 3150#, 471 CID, no roller cam here!
9.79 137.6mph,W8CUDA71, 415w8,3308lbs,leafsprings!
9.81 @ 137, acme383, 70 roadrunner, 493, jerico 4-speed, 3490#, 10.5 tire
9.82 @ 135.89, Mopargilley, 68 Barracuda, 400" W-2 motor 3170# stock 727 W/brake 4:56gear 11.5 tire
9.84 @ 134.90, Bumps440. 69GTX 3240#, all motor, 446ci, stageIV iron heads, Footbraker
9.85 @ 135 398-W2 Duster398
9.85 @ 132.2, DCI, 38 Simca 225ci Slant 6/904, 1/8 6.10 @ 109.8, 2315#, Turobcharged 12# of boost EFI on Methanol
9.91 @ 142 mph,440 906 heads, Mrsixpak
9.93 @ 132.97, moparjohn, 1970 GTX 3250 lbs car and driver at 700 air density Route 66 Joliet
9.94 @ 133.99, b3422w5, 70 duster, 422w5, 3380#, 727, leafs
9.96 @ 134, DavidDean, 71 Duster, 5500'DA 413" 904 SB 2850# 6.18 @ 109 1/8 3500'DA
9.952 @ 131.56, 1.350 60', Sleepyhead416 73 Duster W-5 416 904 Dana 4.88 Ladderbar 2880 lbs
9.96 @ 133.5, ProSport, 73' Dart sport, 451, E-heads, 727, 1.37 60 ft, 3035#, all motor
9.97 @ 133.88 340RICK 70 Challenger 416 W5's leafs and street tires all motor
9.97 @ 135.46 1.36 60ft 493 john, 493" pump gas,street driven, foot brakin and no nitrous
9.978 @134.24, 1.360 60'(1Bad440)70 Challenger streetcar,footbrake,leafs,Dot's 3460lb .060 440 stock stroke all motor

---10 second Zone ---
10.03 @ 135 through exhaust on dot tires paul swigart 69 pro street cuda
10.05 @ 133.59, 1.39 60', Duster John, 73 duster, 6.40 @ 107.90 1/8, street car pump gas, mufflers, 10.5"tires,#3400
10.088 @ 137.53, 1.556 60', Tig, '74 Challenger, 528ci, Indy -13 heads, 3892# W/D, N/A.
10.09 @131.97,Thumperdart,1.41 60 ft,72 dart 3200+, home port Eheads
10.09 @132,sixpakdodge, 1964 Dodge 330, 452, 2995 lbs.
10:14@129.70 70 Challenger 040 over 440 eddie heads .footbrake.
10.19 @ 129.63 1.395 60 ft, andradaracing 1970 dart. 3000 lbs w/o me. NO-Transbrake.
10.22 @ 132.37, 1.498 60', Clutch, 88 D100, 512ci NA
10.22 @ 131, 1.36 60ft, BigFish69, 440 Cuda
10.23 @ 130.50, 1.41 60', Marvo451 '71 Duster, 451 RB. Iron 452 heads, pump gas, flat tappet cam
10.24 @ 128, 1.36 60', 10sec440, 440RB 452 heads 590cam pump gas 3400#
10.325 @ 128.36, 1.405 60', weedlayer, ugly year, sb Challenger, 3430#
10.40 @ 129.1, a10sec70cuda, 446 cid, 3700#, all motor street car, through mufflers on 10.5"
10.45 @ 127, StrokerPost 67 Dart Sedan, 414 SB, 3290#, factory iron heads, all motor.
10.50 @ 129 KOS Nick 70dart driven to the track,trw flat top,stock rod 446,iron indy head 1050dom 3500#.
10.50 @ 126.68 1.40 60' dustyswinger 73 duster 416sb pumpgas ported cast iron smogger heads 3250# all motor
10.50 @ 127.00, daron 73 duster, sb street car
10.52 @ 130, BB70DUSTER, 400 stock bottom end w/ E heads on squeeze, and on pump gas
10.52 @ 127, 1.46 60', TC67CUDA,500cid,w/E heads thru mufflers street car on DOT's
10.53 @ 128.5, DaveS 73 Swinger 446 906's auto, S/S springs

10.54 @ 124, 2933lbs 590cam,1968 dart 365ci mildly ported iron heads on alcohol Dare dude
10.58 @ 126.78,1.528, T748, 68 Dart 493 w/MCH CNC Eddies
10.59 @ 124, 1.45 60', mopar65, 65 Plymouth 3500# 446 w/E heads
10.64 @ 124.50, 1.49 60', RVA, 440ci 3165#
10.65 @ 123.43 1.45 60ft 68 Dart,3160lbs,crate 360 W2 heads,904,s/s springs,10 1/2 inch slicks,mufflers, 11secdart
10.68 @ 128.3, 1.54 60', TimMoffett, 69 Charger, 4-speed Street Car, 3900# with full exhaust
10.69 @ 126.46, MFR440, '65 Coronet, 446, Max Wedge, Beachy Eng, A&A Trans, 1.50 60', 3535 lbs.
10.70 @ 125 60' 1.50 3700 race weight 10secGTX
10.76 @ 124, Mopartony, 68 Dart 470cid, 727
10.77 @ 123.9, 69Dart,1.49 60 ft, 3100 DA
10.78 @ 124 w/ 1.53 60ft... 72Challenger, 4211lbs Challenger w/ 528Hemi, STREETCAR
10.86 @ 118, 85 Camaro SB 385cid 3380Lbs P/Windows all steel street legal & driven (let off)
10.95 @ 122.22, 1.55 60' Bubba, '80 Mirada, 440, 3615#
10.98 @ 125.98, 1.54 60' 472 Hemi, 71 GTX 3900# SUNROOFGTX
10.98 @ 120.97, 1.48 60', TonyS451, '65 Coronet wagon, pump gas 470" street cruiser, 4020#

---11 second Zone ---
11.01 @ 122.38 , 1.57 60', 493Charger, 68 Charger R/T auto. 493" 3750# w/o driver
11.24 @ 119.3, 1.58 60', ZIPPY '69 GTX Street Car, 451CI,
11.26 @ 119, 1.51 60', fast68plymouth, 68 Satellite, 383, 3675#
11.296 @ 120.209, 1.514 60', Mark Gates, 7.14 1/8, iron head 451/727/3.91 8 3/4 #3765 AMC Pacer
11.33 @ 118.9, 1.60 60', LAR_414, 1969 Dart GT, 3350# race wt, 414 stroked smallblock w/ factory J heads, solid cam and pump gas
11.40 @ 121.80, 1.63 60', aarlucas, '70 cuda, 451"6 PK, 3700#, 2.5" exh sys,pump gas, 3.91, auto
11.40 @ 119.18, w2_360duster, 375 ci w2 no nos thru mufflers @ 3000 ft alt. 3020# w/o driver
11.43 @ 119 1.65 60' 440FISH 72 Demon 383stroker(454ci), 4000stall, 3.73, 452heads,hyd. cam, and fuel injection.
11.46 @ 115 1.55 60' Don1 75 Duster 360 3000# w/driver
11.50 @ 115 1.55 60' 68DART360 ,904, 3200 lbs,eheads, pump gas,full exhaust, 10" tire SS springs
11.533@116.32 1.542 60' 6PKBEE 77 Aspen R/T 360/904/4.10 3425#
11.55 @ 116.23 , 1.62 , 60 , 383man's sons 406 Dart pump gas street car.
11.598 @ 106.690 1.67 60' 67 Charger 440 3600# 8to1 iron head pump gas RemCharger
11.60 @ 116-69 superbee 440-6 pack-3800# BEEQUICK
11.62 @ 114 mph, 1.64 60' in a 3300# 69 fast back cuda street car...Phill
11.67 @ 116 RoadRnnr69, 1969 RoadRunner 500 stroker, auto 4:10 gears Street tires, full exhaust , 93 octane.
11.702 @ 113.85, CudaDan, 1.565 60 ft, 360 auto
11.708 @ 114.24, 1.674 60', tboomer '64 Dodge 330 sedan, 3460# 446" 3.91 gears...
11.72 @ 113, 440Jim, '73 Cuda, 3700#, hyd cam, 446CID, street
11.76 @113.8, 1.588 60', 77 Volare, 400/727 3660#
11.78 @ 114, Sledgehammer, '71 Dart Swinger, 3470#, 366ci J-headed Small Block 904 Auto on street tires
11.80 @ 113.45, Runner 1.645 60' 452ci stock heads xe282s comp solid. 71 roadrunner 3750 lb w/d
11.84 @ 117.25 1.755 60` Scatpk 68 GTX 528 Hemi 4spd 354 gear 4175lbs w/driver 10.1 comp 242/242@50 solid cam factory intake TTI Headers 91 octane
11.85 @ 116.6, 1.65 60', 68LAR, '68 Road Runner 3926#, 4 SPEED street car

Granted there are a few exceptions like the 6 second status and the 8 second omni, but when I think of muscle cars thats generally where my thoughts lead.
I don't even consider my 02 mustang a muscle car, I would call it a sports car or pony car, I see the vette as a sports car.

[2Mopars1Ford]

It doesn't have to be 11 sec or quicker either alot of muscle cars ran 13's and 14's There just wasnt enough charachters allowed to let me post the full list :P

[99SL2_Modder]

I would like to put in my 2 cents on the viper displacement debate:

Obviously, Dodge completely set a new bound when they came out with the viper v10 in 1995. 10 years later, everyone STILL says, "OMG, this has less displacement and MORE HORSEPOWER!!!" Even though the viper engine is 10 years old, everyone still benchmarks it. They haven't changed a thing about it.

Moral of the story?
Older things have a tendency to still benchmark newer cars. Stop looking at old technology and think of what Dodge COULD do to that car with the amount of technology they have NOW. They could easily spank the vette and any car out there, but they leave the huge v10 in there instead.

You all need to grow up. Yes there are things faster than american muscle. There are still very few american muscle cars on this site, so stop calling your 1985+ car muscle...it's not.

Yes there's things faster than German/Euro/Jap cars. Stop swinging on their nuts.

You guys really gotta stop siding with one side or another. It's a worthless debate. They all have good qualities.

[PA Z06]

Wow long thread,
I figured Id throw in my .02 cents.
Ive had my Z06 for almost three years now, and its def not refined. It came stock with 365hp to the wheels, and weighed in at 3130 with 3/4 tank of gas, but it will spank 98% of the cars on the road w/o having to do a burn out first in a straight line, and bring it onto the road course and thats where it truely shines. I didnt buy this car for refinement or amenities, I bought it because its a bargain. Most of my boys all push German cars, so I am a car fan in general, but when I get into my brothers C4s the car is outstanding in every single way. Will it beat my Z06 in a race nope, but to him its not all about the numbers.
Another thing that no one has mentioned is Torque. You can have a ton of HP and you will need every bit of it to beat an equal weight car that has more torque.
So in short if your a baller buy whatever makes you happy, if not buy what you can afford that will make you happy, and as mentioned before there will always be something faster.
My buddies always tease me because My saying is "ITs all about the numbers" and I only say that because I drive a vette with a weak ass interior.

[Raven18940]

Originally Posted by PA Z06

Another thing that no one has mentioned is Torque. You can have a ton of HP and you will need every bit of it to beat an equal weight car that has more torque.

Torque is not the end all, be all of racing. Far more important than torque is the area under the Power curve. Broad power > peaky power. However the huge mountain of mid range torque the tappers off as the revs build is what gives american muscle (and my saab) a nice, broad power band.

[PA Z06]

[QUOTE=Raven18940;457829]Torque is not the end all, be all of racing.

I didnt think I implied torque is the end all, be all of racing ?