Turbo=Vtec Wrx=SI STI=Type-R GC8=every stock honda

[WRXD]

Originally Posted by MADjdm

"rally racing performance for the road" umm commericials with it going sideways on road courses, IT DIDNT EVEN COME WITH A RADIO.......

It didn't come with a radio for its first model year when it was released as a limited production car to keep the cost down. THEY SHOW EVERY CAR GOING SIDEWAYS---ever see the Kia Rio commercial that shows the thing powersliding...or the hyundai commercials? How about the Mazda 6 commercials where is shows the Mazda drifting the number '6' in the dirt. showing a car slide or go fast in a commercial is in no way a declaration of being a full on race car. Not that if it WAS a full on race car it would matter, as you have already been proven wrong that a modded S2k could outperform an STi.

Originally Posted by MADjdm

so your telling me the wrx trans isnt crap???? within my own group of friends who were all under 300whp broke there trans no problem, they are 100 percent garbage im sorry im not gonna even argue this with you becuae its a known fact. ask any knowledgable person on this forum

Yes I am telling you the WRX trans isnt crap. Go search the mod list threads on ClubWRX. Its a known fact that if you dont beat on your WRX it can handle a good amount of power. The transmissions break when you add tons of power to an AWD drivetrain and beat on it. It is a fact that the earlier 02 and early 03 trannies are WEAKER, but yet somehow people still run tons of power in the bugeyes on stock transmissions.

Originally Posted by MADjdm

as for the interior comment, the point is that they put garbage interiors in these cars, along with the garbage 5spd trans thats been around since the 80's and 160 weak diffs to make the car "affordable" it seems like a great car for the price until you see the the stuff you have to replace to make it worthy of any kind of abuse or competition,

its a street car. WRX, Civic Si, ect...all street cars, built with one thing in mind---how can we make the most money while spending the least. Yeah, if you are gonna build a race car out of a WRX you gotta replace some stuff, whats your point? You would have to replace a lot of the civic too. However, the WRX is gonna leave the civic in the dust off the lot....

so in conclusion-- subaru built on other manufacturers knowledge of N/A engines, engineered a turbocharged flat4 awd engine and drivetrain, and came out with a very successful automobile that, stock for stock, is quicker that most n/a 4cyls available. Somehow they cheated though..right?

[xEJ20x]

Originally Posted by WRXD

Yes I am telling you the WRX trans isnt crap. Go search the mod list threads on ClubWRX. Its a known fact that if you dont beat on your WRX it can handle a good amount of power. The transmissions break when you add tons of power to an AWD drivetrain and beat on it. It is a fact that the earlier 02 and early 03 trannies are WEAKER, but yet somehow people still run tons of power in the bugeyes on stock transmissions.

I'm just adding a few things from written/published resource. ABout why it breaks and how you can avoid it.

This is from the book, Training WRX: 2nd Edition by Nick Warne and MRT.


16.3.2: Why Your Gearbox Broke
As mention elsewhere, the 4wd of the WRX provides double the traction of normal 2wd care. This is largely a good thing, but it should be remembered that a little wheelspin acts as a shock absorber in most 2wd cars. If you sidestep the clutch in a 2wd you will chirp the tires and impress the hard-of-thinking. In the WRX you will damage the transmission, including the gearbox, big time.
A weakness of the WRX transmission is the long and complex path power has to travel through the gearbox. The long input shaft that feeds power into the transmission twists and flexes in use and can be permanently distorted in extreme situations. The pre-MY99 cast alloy transmission casing is also prone to flexing and distortion under heavy use. Under heavy load the transmission casing swells minutely due to the partial outward loads of the helical gears and this interferes with the precise meshing of the individual gears in the transmission. In effect the gears move away from each other under engine torque, reducing their contact area and therefore strength as the load is moved outward to the tips of the gear teeth instead of the base where they are strongest. This can lead to gear failure, which is a wallet-adverse event.


16.3.3: Improving the WRX Gearbox
Mechanical sympathy and good quality gear oil is the best way of improving operation of the WRX gearbox. A lack of mechanical sypathly is displayed in big RPM, clutch side step launches; holding full throttle and changing gear without using the clutch. Don't do it guys. You don't need to drive like Granny to look after your WRX gearbox. Just avoid the cruel approach. This advice is free with the book.

Next in order of cost is gear oil. Subaru fill the gearbox as standard with a mineral based gear oil, another cost/performance compromise. Replacing this with a high quality gear oil protects the gears and bearings more effectively, as the synthetic gear oil better resists the film breakdown under the huge pressures exerted as the gear teeth rotate in mesh. Refilling the gearbox with synthetic gear oil will cost about $100. Refer to your owners manual for viscosity and fill capacity.

Since the first version of this book was published it has become possible to fit heavy duty engine and gearbox mounts, which reduce transmission "wind up". In effect these allow the power to be more directly transferred to the wheels instead of the of the soft rubber mounts that keep your car nice and quiet and reduce vibration.


In Conclusion
After reading this section do not get the impression that the transmission in you WRX is made from old cereal boxes and will break the first time that you get stuck into it. Until recently, all Group N rally cars and alot of budget Group A cars, developing between 250-300hp, used the standard gear box casing and gears without too many problems, which demonstrates that the gearbox is reasonably strong. Maintenance and common sense are needed to ensure long life.





Quick run down in case some of you are too lazy to read the knowledge I have posted for you....
The breaking is actually from a kinetic warp that occurs during hard engagement rather than low grade parts, like some people believe.

[StreetEG]

Ok I think we got a little lost in terms of the original statement. But heres my .02 on just a few key points.

1. The stock wrx trans is crap. If you deny it you are only lying to yourself because it is a proven fact. The reason I say this isnt because there are a ew people who drive higher horsepower wrxs on stock trans fine... Its the fact that I have known 2 people personally with turbo upgraded wrxs and both of them went. Both shifting extremely easy. I have also known personally 10 Turbo honda owners with boatloads of miles on the trannies slamming gears without a problem to be had.(nothing a lil synchromesh couldnt solve anyway)

2. I didnt compare the s2k to the STI once. Thats all dozer (madjdm) My comparison was the culture surrounding what once was honda that is now subaru. The fact that the fad now is turbo AWD as opposed to N/A FWD means nothing.

This entire thing was for the people who drive subarus who bash on the honda kids for being ricers, when they are falling in the EXACT same trends when it comes to timeline of the car, type of driver, and things offered by each car.

/rant

[Renegade_]

Originally Posted by MADjdm

so your telling me the wrx trans isnt crap???? within my own group of friends who were all under 300whp broke there trans no problem, they are 100 percent garbage im sorry im not gonna even argue this with you becuae its a known fact. ask any knowledgable person on this forum

Just because the tranny can't handle something doesn't mean it's garbage. IT'S BECAUSE IT WASN'T DESIGNED TO TAKE IT.

[WRXD]

Originally Posted by StreetEG

Ok I think we got a little lost in terms of the original statement. But heres my .02 on just a few key points.

1. The stock wrx trans is crap. If you deny it you are only lying to yourself because it is a proven fact. The reason I say this isnt because there are a ew people who drive higher horsepower wrxs on stock trans fine... Its the fact that I have known 2 people personally with turbo upgraded wrxs and both of them went. Both shifting extremely easy. I have also known personally 10 Turbo honda owners with boatloads of miles on the trannies slamming gears without a problem to be had.(nothing a lil synchromesh couldnt solve anyway)


/rant

so you personally drove every mile with them watching how they shifted??---news flash...if you are trashing on your car and your tranny breaks...how likely is it that you are gonna tell all of your friends that you were beating on it...more like 'I don't know what happened....I was shifting it really easy and it just went...' BULL $HIT

there are much more people that have blown trannies because MOST people cant/dont drive well. Don't sit here and tell me that your 19-20 year old buddies babied their modded WRXs....

if stock WRX trannies were blowing left and right, then yeah I would agree that its crap/trash/ etc etc...but putting 250-350 whp (something its not meant for) on an AWD platform, taking it to the track and then wondering why you stripped 1st gear---c'mon. The WRX tranny debate consists of two sides---Those people who beat on their car and broke their transmission, and the people who run 300whp+++ and KNOW HOW TO DRIVE...

[sisforsurfing]

Not to join the war, but...

Originally Posted by MADjdm

not to mention a simple bolt on turbo kit on a stock s2k engine will put you in the 10's and the 400 whp range no problem. how can they do this on a stock motor thats na from the factory? with a perfectly engineered motor, things you dont see comming from subaru

Your other arguments weren't bad, but that is just the wrong way to go about arguing in favor of the S2000. With just a bolt-on turbo kit, F20C's are making 400 whp? I'd like to see that. Honda did a good job making a lot of power out of not much engine without using power adders... proven by them using a 11.0 compression ratio. It's not meant to be turbocharged!

And sure, WRX tranny's can be ruined pretty easily. But with a little care, they can do an okay job holding up to 300 whp. It's all in the driver... but hey, that's something stupid that someone defending the "strength" of the S2000 rear diff would say, right?

I'm just busting your balls and don't mean this as a personal attack whatsoever, just wanted to say that. And that arguing WRX vs. S2000 is pretty dumb. 2 seat, n/a, lightweight roadster vs. 4-door, turbo AWD family car. I hope the S2000 is faster, because getting groceries in my car and still beating yours would kinda suck.

[MADjdm]

Originally Posted by sisforsurfing

Not to join the war, but...


Your other arguments weren't bad, but that is just the wrong way to go about arguing in favor of the S2000. With just a bolt-on turbo kit, F20C's are making 400 whp? I'd like to see that. Honda did a good job making a lot of power out of not much engine without using power adders... proven by them using a 11.0 compression ratio. It's not meant to be turbocharged!

And sure, WRX tranny's can be ruined pretty easily. But with a little care, they can do an okay job holding up to 300 whp. It's all in the driver... but hey, that's something stupid that someone defending the "strength" of the S2000 rear diff would say, right?

I'm just busting your balls and don't mean this as a personal attack whatsoever, just wanted to say that. And that arguing WRX vs. S2000 is pretty dumb. 2 seat, n/a, lightweight roadster vs. 4-door, turbo AWD family car. I hope the S2000 is faster, because getting groceries in my car and still beating yours would kinda suck.

400 whp no problem just research inlinepro and you will see; i didnt believe it myself until i researched it. ill email u a video of a stock motor and stock diff turbo s2k running 10.7 if youd like. as for the diff on s2000 you are correct they are underrated for the car, but its a quick fix under 400 bucks to solve the problem, nothing major like a transmission

[MADjdm]

Originally Posted by WRXD

Don't sit here and tell me that your 19-20 year old buddies babied their modded WRXs....

if stock WRX trannies were blowing left and right, then yeah I would agree that its crap/trash/ etc etc...but putting 250-350 whp (something its not meant for) on an AWD platform, taking it to the track and then wondering why you stripped 1st gear---c'mon. The WRX tranny debate consists of two sides---Those people who beat on their car and broke their transmission, and the people who run 300whp+++ and KNOW HOW TO DRIVE...

i know people who have done it stock, and many with just exhaust which is basically stock as well. dont believe me or eric (streeteg) then why dont you ask the wrx owners themselves some of them are on here... or just wait for yours to blow up

just for the record gregfeders 1st wrx grinded in reverse when it was only 2 weeks old!!!

[D Money]

Originally Posted by WRXD

so you personally drove every mile with them watching how they shifted??---news flash...if you are trashing on your car and your tranny breaks...how likely is it that you are gonna tell all of your friends that you were beating on it...more like 'I don't know what happened....I was shifting it really easy and it just went...' BULL $HIT

there are much more people that have blown trannies because MOST people cant/dont drive well. Don't sit here and tell me that your 19-20 year old buddies babied their modded WRXs....

if stock WRX trannies were blowing left and right, then yeah I would agree that its crap/trash/ etc etc...but putting 250-350 whp (something its not meant for) on an AWD platform, taking it to the track and then wondering why you stripped 1st gear---c'mon. The WRX tranny debate consists of two sides---Those people who beat on their car and broke their transmission, and the people who run 300whp+++ and KNOW HOW TO DRIVE...

wow, I love it! This one is for me, I got this!

Um, well you don't realize anything about your so called strong wrx tranny yet since your still stage 2! I never had a problem then either, nor did I with my vf-34. Once I put an agressive clutch in along with the combined 330whp I put down, the tranny said no sir, good bye. Listen, if only you knew how I drive. Before my new junk box setup I was only shifting at 2500-3000rpms every time, ask anyone! I got on the car once and 2nd gear broke in half.

Also, don't sit there and say I or anyone else cannot drive! How do you figure? I pull 1.6-1.8 60ft's all day long bro, so I guess it has to mean I can't drive....Come show me how to drive since you know it all!

[MADjdm]

i can vouch for subwrxkid's driving, he never beat on that thing and he has really low mileage, and the first time he did he totally went!

dam a wrx owner is bashing on his on trans, doesnt that say something?

[D Money]

Originally Posted by MADjdm

i can vouch for subwrxkid's driving, he never beat on that thing and he has really low mileage, and the first time he did he totally went!

dam a wrx owner is bashing on his on trans, doesnt that say something?

lol your an idiot, j/p

WRXD will be fine, he is only stage 2 and should put down somewhere near 220-230whp and he also has those ultra strong RA-WIDTH gears that the 04+ wrx's got!

Nothing wrong with stage 2 wrx's I have been there once before also. I am just saying it will be much harder to blow a trans with over 100whp less, alright?

[StreetEG]

Originally Posted by Renegade_

Just because the tranny can't handle something doesn't mean it's garbage. IT'S BECAUSE IT WASN'T DESIGNED TO TAKE IT.

Actually that does mean its crap. Maybe not in the eyes of a subaru designer, or you... who probably owns a subaru and is jsut getting defensive. But there are plenty of parts on cars that take to extensive mods and get the crap beaten out of them all the time. They last. That to me makes it good.

If i bought a tv that was F'n amazing until i put a dvd player on it... then it broke. Id be pissed. I dont need the dvd player, but i want it. So if it doesnt last with it on its garbage.

So, ya. You're opinion may hold arguement to people who are retarded, but not to me. imho

[StreetEG]

Originally Posted by WRXD

The tranny is fine with a ton of power as long as you dont romp on it. When people beat on their cars with tons of power and the stock transmission is when the WRX transmissions break.

Ok THis is where I jump in beyond all the 20yr old **** and say that I cant disagree with you any more then anyones disagreed with anyone. (with all due respect). I understand you take pride in the car company that you represent, but THIS IS B/S that you think a tranny is good because it doesnt break when you baby it.

THAT DOESNT MAKE A TRANNY GOOD. That doesnt make anything when it comes to the aftermarket of cars good. It is a common problem breaking trannies in WRXs. Just like it is spinning stock axles in a honda. OUR STOCK AXLES SUCK. thats why replace them. The best thing about anyone tuning any car is being able to admit their faults and make up for them. Stop living a lie

[WRXD]

Originally Posted by StreetEG

Ok THis is where I jump in beyond all the 20yr old **** and say that I cant disagree with you any more then anyones disagreed with anyone. (with all due respect). I understand you take pride in the car company that you represent, but THIS IS B/S that you think a tranny is good because it doesnt break when you baby it.

THAT DOESNT MAKE A TRANNY GOOD. That doesnt make anything when it comes to the aftermarket of cars good. It is a common problem breaking trannies in WRXs. Just like it is spinning stock axles in a honda. OUR STOCK AXLES SUCK. thats why replace them. The best thing about anyone tuning any car is being able to admit their faults and make up for them. Stop living a lie

im not saying its a perfect infalable part that will never break--, I just think that they have an false rep for being trash, garbage...whatever. I'm not living a lie...there are TONS of things that I think suck about the WRX---the radio sucks ass...the interior is crap--it rattles and creaks, it has horrible turbo lag (stock) the stock tires and wheels are horrible...I could go on and on. It's obvious that subaru cut a lot of corners when designing the base WRX.

Yes I will admit the tranny is weak for the power it produces. I will admit that they tend to break easily when modded--- but in stock form its far from garbage and im sticking to that. Its not an an issue of company pride...I love hondas--grew up with hondas, I picked out a honda for my gf as her first car. In fact im trying to buy my sisters civic as a 2nd project car. Im am not simply a subie fanboy that will fight any negative statement made about my car. I am interested in all tuned cars hence me even being a member of this site.

I hope that clears some personal issues up.

[spoolinLSsol]

wrx trannies are dookie that is that...wrxd ur retarted ur making a point with nothing to back it up dimitri babies his car and got on it one or 2 times and the **** blew up how do that make it a good tranny i beat the piss outta my 300hp STOCK honda tranny all day every day and it holds up like nothing else so please with the 20yr old crap obviuosly us "20 year olds" know more abotu cars and have alot more experience...and ps i dont live at home blah blah blah either

[WRXD]

Originally Posted by b16ef8

wrx trannies are dookie that is that...wrxd ur retarted ur making a point with nothing to back it up dimitri babies his car and got on it one or 2 times and the **** blew up how do that make it a good tranny i beat the piss outta my 300hp STOCK honda tranny all day every day and it holds up like nothing else so please with the 20yr old crap obviuosly us "20 year olds" know more abotu cars and have alot more experience...and ps i dont live at home blah blah blah either

this post just oozes maturity and intelligence...

and on that note, I bid this thread adieu.


oh and for further reference this is what a period looks like .

[D Money]

Damn, am I too late? WRXD deleted his post so I couldn't see. Oh well, I guess there was a reason for that!

[MPowerKai]

my friend has a completely stock wrx and his tranny blew up.

[spoolinLSsol]

dude....im not gonna lie but im probably alot smarter then you are and i dont care to use proper english or punctuation on a internet thread, its not a big deal...and u should peace out cause u got NO clue what ur talking about ur fighting a losing battle

[LSHatch]

Originally Posted by sisforsurfing

Not to join the war, but...


With just a bolt-on turbo kit, F20C's are making 400 whp? I'd like to see that.


It's all in the driver... but hey, that's something stupid that someone defending the "strength" of the S2000 rear diff would say, right?

.

Full Race, LoveFab, InlinePro, JG Fabrications(I think that is the name), Turbo Dude, are all making high 400s to the wheels with stock motors. Well, minus headstuds. The stock studs stretch at the amount of power.

I have over 300 launches on my stock, original diff without one problem. Hell, I didn't even change the fluid in it till about 55k miles.