ABS vs no ABS. Opinions?

[Got Insulin?]

Originally Posted by Antonio

nah....nothing wrong with putting unneeded stress on the motor and drivetrain.....

I'd much rather come to a stop with my brakes while in neutral which are a cheap and easy wear item to replace instead of constantly downshifting and revving down the motor, potentially causing damage to a more important and expensive driveline/powertrain part. Sure it may not happen, but each time you do, you run the risk of making a silly mistake. The more you do it, the higher the risk.

Except downshifting is the proper way to drive a manual transmission. If you upshift and downshift properly, the car won't have any silly issues like the ones you're indicating. At all.

In fact, I'd never, ever put the car in neutral and coast to a stop while doing so. What happens to the vacuum created by your engine's load to help to slow you down when you're in neutral? It's not present.

[Antonio]

i'm not saying downshifting or upshifting shouldn't be done. I'm saying that it shouldn't be CONSTANTLY used as a means to slow your car when your brakes are much more efficient. It's fine also if you leave it in gear and slow with your brakes and push in the clutch a couple feet before you actually come to a stop and then put it in neutral. My point was that the motor shouldn't be used to slow the car constantly.

As far as vacuum, could you reword it? I wanna make sure of what you meant.

[dugganzx3]

Most states have an anti neutral coasting law for cars, as I am lead to believe it is applied to both manual and automatic cars when driving/coasting. You are supposed to use the engine to slow your car down, look in your car's owner's manual, even for automatics the owner's manual will say it is suggested when needed to engine brake, and that when done right it is safe.

[SovXietday]

Originally Posted by Antonio

i'm not saying downshifting or upshifting shouldn't be done. I'm saying that it shouldn't be CONSTANTLY used as a means to slow your car when your brakes are much more efficient. It's fine also if you leave it in gear and slow with your brakes and push in the clutch a couple feet before you actually come to a stop and then put it in neutral. My point was that the motor shouldn't be used to slow the car constantly.

As far as vacuum, could you reword it? I wanna make sure of what you meant.

*sigh*

Engine braking has no ill effects on your engine.

- The engine is not being supplied fuel during decel situations, it is being driven solely by the weight of the car. This means the engine experiences no icombustion in the cylinders, and is more economical than coasting.
- It creates a heavy vacuum in the cylinders (plus, like I said, no combustion), aiding in pulling out debris and carbon build up in the cylinders/valves/head ports/etc.
- The vacuum created both helps to slow the car physically and adds more power to the brakes through the brake booster.
- Everything is turning regardless of whether you are in or out of gear. Which do you think hurts the engine more? Being mechanically spun by the tires, or having an explosion shove a piston down the bore? As for the drivetrain, yeah... um... mainshaft, countershaft, differential, driveshaft, axles, etc... they don't stop turning?

To top it all off, it is SAFER to be in gear at all times, period. If you're driving a manual car, you should never be out of gear (clutch depressed doesn't count). And if your theory was anywhere near correct, then every automatic transmission would return to idle upon decel. They don't by the way, they engine brake the car until the torque converter takes over.

K, continue on with this retarded conversation about ABS lol.

[c7scayman]

Originally Posted by SovXietday

You should still be able to turn the car while you're braking with ABS as the tires still have traction.

Yeah I know I can turn the car. But with ABS, I don't know IF I should turn the car until it is too late because I cannot feel what my braking distance so I have no idea if the car will stop in time or if I should look for a safer area to steer into.

I live in D.C. area where most cars have dents and everyone drives rough and cuts everyone off so I brake very hard often. My ABS was activated about 3 times per week of daily driving. I usually keep my distance and brake early, but so often someone cuts me off and slams on their brakes a second later to make a turn or take an exit.

[jpalamar]

Originally Posted by c7scayman

Yeah I know I can turn the car. But with ABS, I don't know IF I should turn the car until it is too late because I cannot feel what my braking distance so I have no idea if the car will stop in time or if I should look for a safer area to steer into.

I live in D.C. area where most cars have dents and everyone drives rough and cuts everyone off so I brake very hard often. My ABS was activated about 3 times per week of daily driving. I usually keep my distance and brake early, but so often someone cuts me off and slams on their brakes a second later to make a turn or take an exit.

You just need driver mod.

[AWD GS]

Originally Posted by Antonio

nah....nothing wrong with putting unneeded stress on the motor and drivetrain.....

[marshallpre1]

Originally Posted by WolfsFang

Where the **** did i say i dident need ABS? Maybe you should learn how to read. I said i dont care for it, ive never had my ABS come on outside of snow, i also even hardly use my brakes since i engine brake all the time. Im still on my same pair of brakes when i bought my evo a year and a half ago. Before you say **** maybe you should understand what your reading.

Thank you I think I can read

Originally Posted by WolfsFang

My eclipse never had ABS and when my Evo had working ABS i really dident mind it. The only thing i hated is when i was driving in the snow the ABS would kick in every time, was super annoying. In the end I dont really care if my car has ABS or not, on the other hand i hate how all these modern cars have so much safety features. Takes the fun out of driving :<

Then tell me what "safety features" takes the fun out of driving? Airbags? ABS??? Reverse cameras?? What?

[AWD GS]

safety features are added because of stupid drivers

[Big_Jim]

Can I lock this yet? lol

[davin]

Originally Posted by SovXietday

Engine braking has no ill effects on your engine.

I completely agree. Whenever I drive, I always downshift, no matter if it is on the track or on the road. Furthermore, anyone who watches any type of racing will notice that the driver downshifts entering a turn or coming into the pits to stop. It provides additional stopping power along with the brakes. To add on top of that, many super cars out now have cantilever spoilers that produce drag when the brakes are applied and gives the vehicle 70% more stopping power. In short, brakes are not everything.

Reference: http://www.bugatti.com/en/veyron-16....eleration.html

Downshifting adds no additional stress that I can think of; unless you do not change your fluids or something of the sort.

Those saying they are able to better handle a situation without ABS may feel more comfortable without it. Then again, my ABS was a 3-Channel rather than the more modern 4-Channel and had quite a bit of lag time. That way they have a more solid pedal feel, with a predictable stopping distance and more linear stopping power. This is my personal preference so that I can learn the car to the best of my ability.

Moreover, that is why I have a manual transmission over an automatic transmission; so I can be more a part of the vehicle: the same concept of me doing without ABS. With that said, I am not knocking of people that prefer ABS. It may be something they are more comfortable with and have more peace of mind with added safety.

Honestly, we can debate this all day and all night with the Pro’s and Con’s of ABS. But really, it just comes down to what people feel is best for them.

[jpalamar]

Originally Posted by Big_Jim

Can I lock this yet? lol

I'l cut you ese.

[marshallpre1]

I'd like to think otherwise, but was I like this as a teenager? Was I a stupid know-it-all-I'm-the-greatest-thing-since-the-GTR kid??

[oneday]

Originally Posted by marshallpre1

Then tell me what "safety features" takes the fun out of driving? Airbags? ABS??? Reverse cameras?? What?

You forgot DRLs and seat belts.

[renn]

i hate airbags. really takes the fun out of driving when a pillow stops you from breaking your face on the dash.


same thing with seat belts.

[renn]

but seriously, braking from 140 in my rx-7 and locking the wheels... the first thing to come to my mind isn't how raw the car feels.

[marshallpre1]

Originally Posted by renn

but seriously, braking from 140 in my rx-7 and locking the wheels... the first thing to come to my mind isn't how raw the car feels.

I literally LOL'd at my desk.

Locking at 140mpg is soooo pure bro!! because racecar!

[SovXietday]

Originally Posted by renn

i hate airbags. really takes the fun out of driving when a pillow stops you from breaking your face on the dash.

While I prefer an airbag to a steering wheel any day of the week, I would not call them "pillows" lol. They feel more like getting hit by one of those cartoon jack in the boxes with the boxing mitt on the end, lol!

Originally Posted by marshallpre1

Locking at 140mpg is soooo pure bro!! because racecar!

Man, wish I was lockin' at 140mpg.

[WolfsFang]

Originally Posted by marshallpre1

Thank you I think I can read



Then tell me what "safety features" takes the fun out of driving? Airbags? ABS??? Reverse cameras?? What?

what i mean by safety features are like lane shifting, or when the car detects your falling asleep.

[SovXietday]

^ Kinda have to agree with that. I understand why they were implemented, but it's seriously getting to the point where good driving is no longer the emphasis. It is literally get in the car and it'll do the rest for you.