Shooting on 422!!

[c0nfl1kt]

Guns don't shoot people. Angry, sex-deprived Engineers in Philadelphia suburbs with 17 year old daughters shoot people.

[max2k1]

Death Statistic from a few years ago

Motor Vehicles 43,900
Falls 12,600
Poisonings 10,600
Drownings 4,500
Fires 4,100
Choking 2,800
Firearm 1,400 (1.5%

Lets ban Ladders, Swimming, Fireplaces, and Eating as well

[c0nfl1kt]

Originally Posted by max2k1

Death Statistic from a few years ago

Motor Vehicles 43,900
Falls 12,600
Poisonings 10,600
Drownings 4,500
Fires 4,100
Choking 2,800
Firearm 1,400 (1.5%

Lets ban Ladders, Swimming, Fireplaces, and Eating as well

And solid foods!

[Proven]

Originally Posted by ASIAN JUL

Okay, Proven, and what do you suggest the government does? Ban all guns except for LEOs? First of all, no way in hell would they be able to find every firearm under the sun, therefore all banning guns would do is make it harder for law abiding citizens to protect themselves meanwhile all the street-sold, stolen, guns, etc. are out there in the hands of the wrong people? And no, there should be no law that everyone should have to carry. That's the beauty of this country (for the most part) is that we have rights and freedoms.

Making gun ownership illegal does nothing except take away a right as citizens of this country and take away another way that citizens can protect themselves. I'm sure there are loads of people out there who HAVE had to protect themselves with their firearm that you could talk to.

Bottom line is that guns don't kill people. People do.

If you don't believe me that guns don't kill people, check out this site: http://montego.roughwheelers.com/gun_cam.html

Hopefully your kidding with your proof and saying "guns don't kill people, people kill people" is a mear cop out. Of course guns don't walk around killing people. My argument is that guns are available to those PEOPLE who kill people not to mention accidents. Without guns a fair amount of "those" people would not kill anyone with a knife or any with other form (or at least be successful at it).

Of course it would be a hell of a task to take back all the guns, we wouldnt even be able to get all of them, but it WOULD save lives. Banning them now and the future production of them would also increase the amount of lives saved.

Whats more important for you to protect, having the right to carry a gun or the saving of lives from mis-use of them?

[bastid]

Originally Posted by Proven

... but it WOULD save lives.

This marks the 3rd time on this forum where I will ask you for facts, and likely the 3rd time you have none.

[max2k1]

We would save more lives if we did just one of these. Take every car off the road. Dont let people near water, or above heights above 3 feet. Fed people through an IV instead of solid food.

[ASIAN JUL]

Originally Posted by Proven

Hopefully your kidding with your proof and saying "guns don't kill people, people kill people" is a mear cop out. Of course guns don't walk around killing people. My argument is that guns are available to those PEOPLE who kill people not to mention accidents. Without guns a fair amount of "those" people would not kill anyone with a knife or any with other form (or at least be successful at it).

Of course it would be a hell of a task to take back all the guns, we wouldnt even be able to get all of them, but it WOULD save lives. Banning them now and the future production of them would also increase the amount of lives saved.

Whats more important for you to protect, having the right to carry a gun or the saving of lives from mis-use of them?

No, it's not a "mere cop out," actually. A cop out is the opposite, saying that guns kill people. That's ridiculous. Find one instance in history where a gun has walked up, on its own and pulled its own trigger and shot at someone.

Obviously neither of us are going to change each other's minds, but "banning" them and taking away a right of the citizens of this country will do nothing to stop the people who are hellbent on killing people anyway.

In your logic, cars should be taken away because people will drive drunk, high, and dangerously and possibly kill people. No one should be allowed to purchase or own knives ever again, everyone should have their hands cut off cause, Lord knows someone might beat me to death with them. All rope or wire? Get rid of that **** cause someone could asphyxiate me with it. Oh, and let's drain all large bodies of water just to prevent drownings. Ban lighters and matches, too because people might start fires with those objects!

[Proven]

Originally Posted by max2k1

Death Statistic from a few years ago

Motor Vehicles 43,900
Falls 12,600
Poisonings 10,600
Drownings 4,500
Fires 4,100
Choking 2,800
Firearm 1,400 (1.5%

Lets ban Ladders, Swimming, Fireplaces, and Eating as well

Link to these stats please! Annual? from the US? LA alone has more gun deaths per year then that.

Whats the stats on those that were murder, not accidental?

[ASIAN JUL]

Just for your entertainment

S Gun Statistics
Various Sources
2-2-5


(A) The number of physicians in the U.S. is 700,000.
(B) Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year are 120,000.
(C) Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171.

(Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept. of Health Human Services)

Guns
(A) The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000.
Yes, that is 80 million.

(B) The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups, is 1,500.
(C) The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is 0.000188.

Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.
Remember, "Guns don't kill people, doctors do."

FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT ALMOST EVERYONE HAS AT LEAST ONE DOCTOR.

And here's another one: http://www.lizmichael.com/ninemyth.htm

[c0nfl1kt]

I have an idea: lets lobotomize everyone.

[Xavier]

^ Or just people who want to infringe on other peoples rights. They obviously don't care enough to need them and they can only do harm with their mind intact.

[Proven]

Originally Posted by bastid

This marks the 3rd time on this forum where I will ask you for facts, and likely the 3rd time you have none.

When it comes to potential change there is no facts to go by yet, only logic.. Cant help you obtain that.

Only fact I got for you now is guns have killed people by accident and on purpose... Prove me wrong.

Fact I do have for you there would be less deaths if guns didn't exist.. Prove me wrong. Wheres your facts? There definitely isn't any..

Eh, I guess if the number of deaths caused by guns isn't TO alarming we should ignore it all.

[bastid]

Originally Posted by Proven

When it comes to potential change there is no facts to go by yet, only logic.. Cant help you obtain that.

Only fact I got for you now is guns have killed people by accident and on purpose... Prove me wrong.

You know I'd probably get angry over your replies if I didn't feel bad for you.

A gun is an inanimate object. Because it isn't alive, it can't physically shoot someone on its own.

Originally Posted by Proven

Fact I do have for you there would be less deaths if guns didn't exist.. Prove me wrong. Wheres your facts? There definitely isn't any..

You are requesting that I prove something within a fantasy world you've created in your head.

On that note, prove to me that unicorns are other colors than white.

Originally Posted by Proven

Eh, I guess if the number of deaths caused by guns isn't TO alarming we should ignore it all.

Like I said, 3rd time requesting facts, 3rd time no facts. Twice in the healthcare thread, and once here.

Someone wake me up when we have some credibility here.

[cmr076]

zomg i donnnooo where to start?!?!?!

Originally Posted by Proven

The sole purpose and design of a gun is to kill

Only law enforcement and military should have guns to keep order.

the sole purpose of my gun's are protection...

Originally Posted by c0nfl1kt

We need guns to make sure that the military still takes orders from a civilian government.

thank you...

Originally Posted by Proven

Maybe stricter laws on being able to obtain one at least? If you had a member of your family or friend killed by an idiot with a gun would you change your view and be against them you think?

NO, i would be like.... HOLY **** THE POLICE DIDNT GET HERE IN TIME.... AGAIN... i wish i had a gun to protect myself and my family.

Originally Posted by Proven

I'm sticking up for those who've been shot, killed, and family members who've lost someone do to gun violence.

wtf are you talking about? how can you stick up for all of these people without knowing them? how do you even know THEIR view? from the bull**** michael moore documentaries you watch about how the NRA and Guns = the devil?

if you have your way and guns are banned, what other constitutional rights are you willing to give up? will you let the police into your house whenever they want to look around? will you let them stop and frisk your wife/daughter because they want to?

Originally Posted by Chris B.

Also, a side note, I shoot better than most police officers I know(except for one that travels around the country participating in shooting tournaments) and have won first place in handgun shooting competitions in the past against Marines that qualified Expert in both handgun and rifle. I honestly don't completely trust my local law enforcement to be able to accurately shoot a criminal that is inside my house if it came down to it. I even think that in a stressful situation that I might miss with a few shots too. That's why I have at least one firearm that will do a lot of damage to people up close, but doesn't have a whole lot of power after it travels through walls, so it won't injure bystanders or neighbors.

Disclaimer: I'm not a NRA member or a member of any gun rights group, yet as time goes on, I find myself agreeing with them more and more.

funny you should say this! i was having this talk with a local gun store owner not too long ago... he said when the cops come in to qualify, they look at the gun like a carpenter would look at a hammer... something they HAVE to have on their belt... i would put money on me being a better shot than most police.

Originally Posted by Proven

Maybe a law should pass that we all HAVE to carry... That a safe-in up the streets

In no way are we keeping our government under wraps by being able to carry.

in switzerland its mandatory for every make to be issued an assault rifle... guess when the last time their military mobilized was... 1939.

Originally Posted by Proven

The only way I see a fix is to bann them which of course would suck for those responsible enough but it would save lives!.

In my fantasy world (haha, yes i can laugh at this) NO ONE would have a gun and all's they had to do is flip on the lights and run out there with a bat KNOWING that the guy didn't have a gun.

In other Countries were citizens aren't allowed to carry there's MUCH lower death tolls. They may be afraid of their government or police but sh**, aren't we all.

"According to the UN International Study on Firearm Regulation, in 1994 the homicide rate in England (including Wales) was 1.4 (9% involving firearms), and the robbery rate 116, per 100,000 population.

The Swiss Federal Police Office reports that, in 1997, there were 87 intentional homicides and 102 attempted homicides in the entire country.
In a word, Switzerland, which is awash in guns, has substantially lower murder and robbery rates than England, where most guns are banned."

Originally Posted by Proven

When it comes to potential change there is no facts to go by yet, only logic.. Cant help you obtain that.

Originally Posted by bastid

A gun is an inanimate object. Because it isn't alive, it can't physically shoot someone on its own.

if my above facts were enough, what bastid said ^ is 100% a fact...

[max2k1]

cmr076 I lost people to gunfire. He sure doesnt speak for me

[cmr076]

Originally Posted by max2k1

cmr076 I lost people to gunfire. He sure doesnt speak for me

you dont have a voice anymore remember... after he strips you of your 2nd amendment rights, your first amendment rights are going out the window too...

[max2k1]

Originally Posted by cmr076

you dont have a voice anymore remember... after he strips you of your 2nd amendment rights, your first amendment rights are going out the window too...

I cant walk anymore, now I wont be able to talk. just keeps getting worse and worse

[cmr076]

youtube videos of what they were doing to gun owners after katrina, it IS just going to keep getting worse...

on a (somewhat) lighter note, lets mount a 50 cal to your chair! thatll give you a few rights back!

[DPancoast]

I heard about this and was pretty mad that they didn't find that guy.

Glad to see he turned himself in

[c0nfl1kt]

Originally Posted by cmr076

youtube videos of what they were doing to gun owners after katrina, it IS just going to keep getting worse...

lol, you sound like my friend Charlie when he tried to scare me about Fema camps