SoStock '92 BMW turbo build now with big spooler

[SoStock92]

Thanks mike your truck is looking good too

[blackvr4]

might sound like a real noob question, but wtf is a torque plate? i have never seen or heard of this piece.

[poolmike]

Originally Posted by blackvr4

might sound like a real noob question, but wtf is a torque plate? i have never seen or heard of this piece.

When he speaks...he makes most of us feel like noobies. Most times I walk away from a conversation with him, scratching my head, wondering how he can retain so many specs and figures in his head...but then again, I have no functional memory.

[SoStock92]

LOL Mike, who? Me?

Torque plate is used to simulate the head being bolted down. You can see bore holes through it. So what you do is bolt that to your block @ the torque you intend to torque the head studs at. I did this because I am using 1/2" head studs. The stock size is 10mm which is .38" or so. The stock bolts only allow for about 60 ft lbs of torque. The 1/2" studs allow torque to 90+ ft lbs. I'll be torquing to 90 ft lbs. This is good because it'll hold the head down better - BMWs tend to have some HG problems. If I didn't use this plate when boring the motor out, the bores would be fine if the block is sitting on a table, but if I bolt the mains and head down, it will warp the block @ such high torque. So you basically bore and hone the block with this plate torqued down and it simulates the head being there pulling the block how it will once the head is on... think of it like pre-bending the block when you bore/hone.

[Action Park]

93
Cripes thats wild. Jo(h)n, no? Very impressive! I take it that you're injecting meth with the nitrous? Is your old engine going in PT's M? Best of luck with the car, hopefully see you about.
93 93/93

[blackvr4]

Originally Posted by SoStock92

LOL Mike, who? Me?

Torque plate is used to simulate the head being bolted down. You can see bore holes through it. So what you do is bolt that to your block @ the torque you intend to torque the head studs at. I did this because I am using 1/2" head studs. The stock size is 10mm which is .38" or so. The stock bolts only allow for about 60 ft lbs of torque. The 1/2" studs allow torque to 90+ ft lbs. I'll be torquing to 90 ft lbs. This is good because it'll hold the head down better - BMWs tend to have some HG problems. If I didn't use this plate when boring the motor out, the bores would be fine if the block is sitting on a table, but if I bolt the mains and head down, it will warp the block @ such high torque. So you basically bore and hone the block with this plate torqued down and it simulates the head being there pulling the block how it will once the head is on... think of it like pre-bending the block when you bore/hone.

so basically its just to prevent the block from fllexing when machine work is being done to it? makes perfect sense. first i thought it was some kinda spacer for the head, i was like wtf that thing is hugeeee, not to mention i have never seen anyone drop compression with an actual spacer.

[SoStock92]

Originally Posted by Action Park

93
Cripes thats wild. Jo(h)n, no? Very impressive! I take it that you're injecting meth with the nitrous? Is your old engine going in PT's M? Best of luck with the car, hopefully see you about.
93 93/93

Yeah we're doing direct port methanol injection as well

Originally Posted by blackvr4

so basically its just to prevent the block from fllexing when machine work is being done to it? makes perfect sense. first i thought it was some kinda spacer for the head, i was like wtf that thing is hugeeee, not to mention i have never seen anyone drop compression with an actual spacer.

Not exactly. Its not to keep it from flexing when machining, its actually TO flex it during machining. Look at it this way. If you have two pieces of metal and you want to drill a hole through the two pieces of metal bolted together really really tight. If you bore through the bottom piece separate, then when you torque them together they might be warped. So, if you bore them with a piece bolted down to "pre flex " the block, when you go and put the real head back on, the bores will be straight because you bored it with the (fake) head on. Otherwise you would have straight bores with no strain on the block which is fine if you drive around with no head bolted down hehe - but when you go and torque that thing up with 1/2" 90 ft lb head studs, it will make a bore layout go from | | | | | | to / / / \ \ \ do you know what I mean? So if you bore the block already flexed to be like / / / \ \ \ your bores might be off when no head is on, but they'll be spot on when the head is on.

[Cardriverx]

Originally Posted by SoStock92

Yeah we're doing direct port methanol injection as well



Not exactly. Its not to keep it from flexing when machining, its actually TO flex it during machining. Look at it this way. If you have two pieces of metal and you want to drill a hole through the two pieces of metal bolted together really really tight. If you bore through the bottom piece separate, then when you torque them together they might be warped. So, if you bore them with a piece bolted down to "pre flex " the block, when you go and put the real head back on, the bores will be straight because you bored it with the (fake) head on. Otherwise you would have straight bores with no strain on the block which is fine if you drive around with no head bolted down hehe - but when you go and torque that thing up with 1/2" 90 ft lb head studs, it will make a bore layout go from | | | | | | to / / / \ \ \ do you know what I mean? So if you bore the block already flexed to be like / / / \ \ \ your bores might be off when no head is on, but they'll be spot on when the head is on.

makes sence to me, but ive never thought of that. Cool!

[rotarychainsaw]

Thats really interesting about the torque plate and punching it out. Is that problem more pronounced since it's an i-6, or does everyone use those things?

[SoStock92]

Originally Posted by rotarychainsaw

Thats really interesting about the torque plate and punching it out. Is that problem more pronounced since it's an i-6, or does everyone use those things?

No the block cylinder config doesn't matter much - the blocks quality and bracing in the cast is more important. Surprisingly the BMW block didn't move much at all maybe 0.003" or so. The reason we did it, primarily, is that we're using much larger head studs at a much higher torque than the block was ever designed to work at. The guy who assembles our engines (http://www.precisionnitroustechnologies.com/) always does it on their V8 motors because of stress and strain. You can get get so much more complex too. Our torque plate is just a 2" plate (about as thick as most of the head deck) that loads the block up. We used heated cutting fluid to get the block warm/up to temp, but you can get so so so much more involved. Some places that do motors in high frequency, like domestic V8s, use a torque plate with fluid that channels through it to simulate the coolant in the head. Then they hook up fluid to the block, so its like torque plating your engine while its running and up to temperature. It gets pretty crazy, but since the number of BMW motors being bored out regularly is not what the V8 quantity is, we opted to keep it more simple. But keep in mind the difference between using a torque plate and not using a torque plate is big (depending on the block). The difference between running coolant through the torque plate and block is not as big as using just a torque plate, traditionally. So yeah if your block bored and honed you definitely want a shop that will torque plate it. Too few people do it today.

[SoStock92]

Feeling better, not perfect, but better.

Mini update - Dave @ ICS ordered my HG for me and they got it in the mail yesterday and I received it tonight - that's service!




Custom bore and custom stud size with embossing.

And then one of my orders came in that contains some misc parts like clutch fork spring, some more new hardware for power steering pump and such, dowels for the block, blind plugs for the frame rails, new protective caps for the strut tops, and a new dipstick tube





Another order of parts should come tomorrow - then I go down to VAC on friday to pick up the oil pump upgraded, and we're ready to rock meh thinkz

[SoStock92]

Got some nice parts in:









Thanks to Hung @ ExtremePSI for making it happen

[OptiCon]

I've ALWAYS loved your work. So clean.


If you don't mind my asking, what do you do for a living?

[SoStock92]

i just do general IT admin/systems crap @ at government contract company

[OptiCon]

And happen to have connections to some wonderful people and equipment. :D

Is that your CAD handywork on that fuel rail?

[SoStock92]

Originally Posted by OptiCon

And happen to have connections to some wonderful people and equipment. :D

Is that your CAD handywork on that fuel rail?

Yeah I designed that and some other stuff in this build

[D Money]

^^sick! I got a purple tial gate and bov as well. Those wiggins clamps, how do they work? They replace couplers?

[SoStock92]

Originally Posted by subwrxkid

^^sick! I got a purple tial gate and bov as well. Those wiggins clamps, how do they work? They replace couplers?

They use an assembly:



Like that. The body, clamshell, ferrules, and o-rings come out to be a little over $200 a clamp in 3.0"

[noclutch]

I've never used them but according to some of the fast Supra guys, the Wiggins clamps leak.

[SoStock92]

Originally Posted by noclutch

I've never used them but according to some of the fast Supra guys, the Wiggins clamps leak.

maybe if installed incorrectly, but according to turbo drag cars at like 80 psi they do not leak ;)