NSFW What happens when you try to opt out of a TSA full-body scan at the airport?

[DC2.2GSR]

Originally Posted by upperguy

It's a ****ty situation and both sides have their merits, but this guy was obviously cruising for drama. I mean seriously....He had his phone recording before the search even started? Then proceeds to cause a scene, yeah definitely innocent on his part, he's just another traveler looking for safe transit.

As much as I disagree with the search techniques, it's pretty clear that when you buy a ticket, you agree to their security methods! There are alternatives, yes they take considerably longer, but if you don't want it to happen...don't fly!

As far as the guy who mentioned anal probing, it's called a cavity search and has been employed for years and years by customs and so on.

lol. wow. Please buy a plane ticket, go get a body scan/pat down, and leave this country... take all the other sheep with you. Complacency and a total unwillingness to stand up for your rights does not sit well with me.

rodder and scapegoat are dead on with this issue. If you disagree you are simply retarded. There is no 'agree to disagree' or 'respect people's right to a difference of opinion' with such a serious issue. If you can't see the problem with what the TSA is doing here and you can't understand the implications then you need to just GTFO now... you're only dragging us down. If you disagree with the TSA's policies but see a problem with the way that guy went about protesting it then you are a part of the problem... you're dead weight... get the f*** out.

jpalamar mentioned agreeing with rodder, although he thinks he's a little more extreme... now is the time to be extreme or else they'll get what they want and you'll be forced to do as they wish. It's getting worse exponentially. We are not dealing with conspiracy theories and "that'll never happen, that's only in the movies" issues here. We're dealing with things that are actually happening now.

ETA: Allowing these invasive searches and scans before boarding an airplane is only the beginning of a much larger problem. As scape said, soon it will seep into everyday life. It will become commonplace to be scanned without consenting to anything. You may be legally consenting to a search/scan when you purchase a ticket, but what about when these scanners are placed in key areas on city streets? What about when they justify doing it in the name of "homeland security"... they're just 'protecting us from ourselves'? By that time you will have been conditioned to accept it willingly.

It's conditioning.. brainwashing. You get used to one thing and then you accept the new, slightly more strict rule with no fight. By the time you get to the insanely tight restrictions that you once would have revolted against, you'll accept them willingly because you're already used to being restricted. It's a plan. It's done on purpose. It's no different than the frog in boiling water thing... throw him in and he'll just jump right out, but put him in cold water and slowly bring it to a boil and he'll just sit there and cook because he got used to it slowly.

[rodder]

Originally Posted by upperguy

Maybe you should read all the information, as I've looked pretty deeply into this. Airports that do not have a full body scan are required to do the full pat down(same as if you had refused the scan).

way to be a dickbag/tool.

What is your argument here, because you're basically arguing semantics and haven't even stated your opinion on the problem. The argument that says "if you don't want to go through the screenings, don't fly" doesn't work, as the screening procedures are first of all blatantly illegal, and second of all, the simple counter to that argument is for me to say, "if you are afraid of getting blown up by a terrorist because your airline isn't forced by the government to molest it's passengers, don't fly."

[Elliott18t]

Originally Posted by upperguy

Maybe you should read all the information, as I've looked pretty deeply into this. Airports that do not have a full body scan are required to do the full pat down(same as if you had refused the scan).

way to be a dickbag/tool.

yet he went into the airport expecting to go through the usual metal detector (the site did not say they had xray imaging), and he was just pulled aside. He didn't buy a ticket to get in these guys face, but because his father wanted him to go somewhere with him (which he is talking to at points in the video). Should he not fly because there is a chance they will pick him out to randomly grope him? Where are our freedoms.

[rodder]

Originally Posted by upperguy

I wasn't implying it should be, just that it's not a new search method. I'd never suggest or hope it got to that point of course!

again, what is the point you're trying to make? Of course there is a such thing as a cavity search... for SUSPECTED CRIMINALS. Just like the "pat down" has existed for a while, but in the past it's only been used on, get this... SUSPECTED CRIMINALS.

Are you implying that anyone attempting to board a plane is a suspected terrorist and should be treated as such?

[Elliott18t]

so now guilty until proven innocent is ok? wtf.

Thats basically what this is, we have to prove that we are innocent; rediculous.

[Scapegoat]

Originally Posted by Elliott18t

so now guilty until proven innocent is ok?

sadly, our country and law has been like this for a while now

[Elliott18t]

Originally Posted by Scapegoat

sadly, our country and law has been like this for a while now

yes, its awful that it becomes more and more ok everyday.

[rodder]

Originally Posted by DC2.2GSR

jpalamar mentioned agreeing with rodder, although he thinks he's a little more extreme... now is the time to be extreme or else they'll get what they want and you'll be forced to do as they wish.

The other thing that will happen by not standing up for your rights NOW is that you will force us towards an inevitable all-out war with the federal government. It may already be too late, and we're past the point of no return. But if we start fighting back now with acts of civil disobedience like this guy did, maybe we can stop it from getting to the point where the only way to reign in a tyrannous and overreaching govt is with armed rebellion. Of course with so many of us insisting that we'd be better off if only the govt and the police had guns, by the time it gets to that point armed rebellion may even no longer be an option.

I'll quote myself here. Let this sink in. The survival of our nation as we know it depends on it:

Originally Posted by rodder

Of course I'm not saying we should start a revolution over TSA screenings, just saying there has to be a line drawn somewhere and the farther we let them push the line the more difficult it will be to reign them back in when they finally cross it.

I'd rather fight govt abuses like this with civil disobedience just like this guy did than let it get to the point where the only recourse is an actual armed rebellion.

[Elliott18t]

soon to be the new uniform :P lol

[DC2.2GSR]

Originally Posted by rodder

The other thing that will happen by not standing up for your rights NOW is that you will force us towards an inevitable all-out war with the federal government. It may already be too late, and we're past the point of no return. But if we start fighting back now with acts of civil disobedience like this guy did, maybe we can stop it from getting to the point where the only way to reign in a tyrannous and overreaching govt is with armed rebellion. Of course with so many of us insisting that we'd be better off if only the govt and the police had guns, by the time it gets to that point armed rebellion may even no longer be an option.

I'll quote myself here. Let this sink in. The survival of our nation as we know it depends on it:

There may be no options left. Civil disobedience only goes as far as the people who are willing to stand up to the oppressors. When those people have already stood up and spoken their minds, who will follow?

I'm proud to say that I am one of the 3 percent.

[upperguy]

without quoting the last 5 posts, I'm just telling it like it is. Yes I agree that most of the examples of what people are going through and the legality of it all is draconian. If you believe so strongly that it is wrong, then get involved against it, protest and wave signs. The people who instated the regulations obviously went on the extreme side of security rather than personal rights because it was important more than just for the security of the individual aircraft, but for the confidence in the business itself, that they instituted them. The broader issue is that any politician who goes against the extreme measures gets publicly called out and ridiculed for even suggesting that we lower the security level, much like you guys are doing with me right now.

After 9/11 they had to ensure that using a plane as a weapon or tool it incite terror couldn't happen again. If they couldn't show the extremes that they would go to in order to prevent an attack, people simply would not fly. Look at the damage to the airlines after 9/11, they required enormous amounts of money just to stabilize and even now they are still feeling the waves.

[Elliott18t]

but its almost 10 years later and TSA has yet to find anything ( or so ive heard)

[Elliott18t]

http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13534628

how about agreeing to a scan and STILL getting a pat down..

[Scapegoat]

Originally Posted by upperguy

without quoting the last 5 posts, I'm just telling it like it is. Yes I agree that most of the examples of what people are going through and the legality of it all is draconian. If you believe so strongly that it is wrong, then get involved against it, protest and wave signs. The people who instated the regulations obviously went on the extreme side of security rather than personal rights because it was important more than just for the security of the individual aircraft, but for the confidence in the business itself, that they instituted them. The broader issue is that any politician who goes against the extreme measures gets publicly called out and ridiculed for even suggesting that we lower the security level, much like you guys are doing with me right now.

After 9/11 they had to ensure that using a plane as a weapon or tool it incite terror couldn't happen again. If they couldn't show the extremes that they would go to in order to prevent an attack, people simply would not fly. Look at the damage to the airlines after 9/11, they required enormous amounts of money just to stabilize and even now they are still feeling the waves.

ha, they went to the extreme because a) it doesn't affect them personally (how many politician's children go to war?) and b) it keeps them in control

[DC2.2GSR]

Originally Posted by upperguy

without quoting the last 5 posts, I'm just telling it like it is. Yes I agree that most of the examples of what people are going through and the legality of it all is draconian. If you believe so strongly that it is wrong, then get involved against it, protest and wave signs. The people who instated the regulations obviously went on the extreme side of security rather than personal rights because it was important more than just for the security of the individual aircraft, but for the confidence in the business itself, that they instituted them. The broader issue is that any politician who goes against the extreme measures gets publicly called out and ridiculed for even suggesting that we lower the security level, much like you guys are doing with me right now.

After 9/11 they had to ensure that using a plane as a weapon or tool it incite terror couldn't happen again. If they couldn't show the extremes that they would go to in order to prevent an attack, people simply would not fly. Look at the damage to the airlines after 9/11, they required enormous amounts of money just to stabilize and even now they are still feeling the waves.

yep. 9/11 happened and all of a sudden we have to tighten security to make sure it doesn't happen again. Another incident occurs, so tighten the security more. Another and another and another and we become a true police state. Frog in water... it's happening.

For the record, protest is exactly what that guy did. His situation allowed him to jump right past waiving a sign and do some real work.

[Elliott18t]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVKmMD-_QuA

[rodder]

Originally Posted by upperguy

After 9/11 they had to ensure that using a plane as a weapon or tool it incite terror couldn't happen again.

OK, so explain to me please how naked photos and random fondling of genitals ensures that a plane can never be used as a weapon. If these screenings actually worked (and weren't being performed by the federal govt) I could almost be OK with them.

Other countries (such as Israel) have been dealing with airline terrorism for a lot longer than we have and they don't use these screening techniques because they view them as being ineffective and overly intrusive... and when there actually IS a legitimate threat the airport screeners there are highly trained professionals, not high school drop outs who can barely read.

I'm still waiting for you to make your point, btw.

[upperguy]

Originally Posted by rodder

OK, so explain to me please how naked photos and random fondling of genitals ensures that a plane can never be used as a weapon. If these screenings actually worked (and weren't being performed by the federal govt) I could almost be OK with them.

Other countries (such as Israel) have been dealing with airline terrorism for a lot longer than we have and they don't use these screening techniques because they view them as being ineffective and overly intrusive... and when there actually IS a legitimate threat the airport screeners there are highly trained professionals, not high school drop outs who can barely read.

I'm still waiting for you to make your point, btw.

this is my counter argument:

[3rdGenMr2Girl]

Originally Posted by rodder

or if people just start refusing to fly and travel by other means... it's already happening. Whether you choose to do something about it or just bend over and take it is the question. If everybody just bends over and takes it, then you're absolutely right, it will never change... just like our founders realized when they finally decided enough is enough and went to war to fight for their freedom.

Of course I'm not saying we should start a revolution over TSA screenings, just saying there has to be a line drawn somewhere and the farther we let them push the line the more difficult it will be to reign them back in when they finally cross it.

I'd rather fight govt abuses like this with civil disobedience just like this guy did than let it get to the point where the only recourse is an actual armed rebellion.

And for a few people, that's perfectly practical. However, thousands of people fly cross county on business daily. It's not practical for many people to use alternative means to travel. Most of the time, flying is a last resort where driving is impossible(vacations over seas, cross county business, etc). Even small trips, like Philly to Chicago, are often flown by business people to save time. It's hard to drive 8 hours for a meeting (paid for by the company) for a meeting then drive back.
I agree there needs to be a line drawn. There is no reason that transaction had to be exasperated to that extent. I'm just trying to say that a single person revolting in an airport serves little to no purpose unless others join in. Although he was unaware that the airport had certain types of imaging, he still knew that it is indeed an airport, where pat downs are not uncommon in the least. I'm not arguing that i agree with this bulls*it invasive security.

[3rdGenMr2Girl]

i feel like the people in here think that i'm for giving up constitutional rights, which is not the case. i couldn't disagree more.