Undercover Police cars

[daewoo]

Originally Posted by 420sx

I still think thats entrapment. I DO think it makes you do something you would ordinarily not do. The COPS are initiating it. Not the so called "street racer."

I dont street race, but if youre being an annoying f*ck, you bet im gonna drop it a gear and peace out. If that makes me a street racer, then I've lost all faith in law enforcement. You cant ANTAGONIZE someone and expect them to do nothing.

If nothing else, its profiling of people who drive modified vehicles. I bet they're not revving or flashing at stock Honda Accords or Geo Metro's.

qftmft

it would be different if this car just cruises around and people try to race it, but there provoking the person to take off.

[Clin10]

to sway towards the OP, there is a old beat up 95-ish Intrepid in Trenton that tries to tailgate people to make them speed up past the speed limit to pull them over. I saw it happen right next to me about 4 months ago on my way back home from UTI

[wheresmycar]

They have to put in some paperwork to not look like they were sleeping all day.

Chime in Officers of TST? Is there average number of tickets your trying to hit if it's a slow day?

[marshallpre1]

Originally Posted by Clin10

to sway towards the OP, there is a old beat up 95-ish Intrepid in Trenton that tries to tailgate people to make them speed up past the speed limit to pull them over. I saw it happen right next to me about 4 months ago on my way back home from UTI

Now... That IS BULL****

[TNTramair]

people saying that this is some form of entrapment need to take a criminal justice course and get educated. in no way shape or form is this entrapment. first of all, you allready know that Police do this type of stuff and therefore know the risks involved. not to mention that if ya did it with someone that wasnt a cop, you still know the risks envolved with these type of activities.

that said....this would be the same type of scenerio with a criminal buying drugs off an undercover cop....is that entrapment aswell?? the cops just provide the oppurtunity...they dont hold a gun to your head and make you do anything.

420sx- youre pretty much falling for the "trap" when you "drop the gear and peace". police do what they can do to generate income for their respective county...simple as that. same with "speed traps"...it is what it is and since we all know this stuff goes on than there is no entrapment envolved.

[SpEcRv9]

Originally Posted by 420sx

Just because youre guilty of something doesnt give them the right to unfairly catch you in the act of it.

thanks for highlighting the part where you're an idiot so I didn't have to do it myself.

[AlterEvo]

Originally Posted by marshallpre1

...If we drove MUSCLE cars, we would have been left alone.

It's amazing how one sided the law is.

I agree to a point, but yet I disagree. The reason that 'tuner' cars get harrassed isn't necessairly because of the car itself, it's b/c of the ass clowns that drive them. Seldom do you see a 60+ yr old guy street racing his 60's Camaro. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but c'mon, be honest, most of the street racing violations today involve what factors - import/domestic tuner style rides and ignorant and most times younger drivers. It's definatly not the law being "one sided." Think about it, if we did all indeed drive muscle cars, they in turn would be viewed the same as tuners are now.

I'm not siding with the five-oh, but I was a cop for a number of years before moving back to PA and you tend to hear the same excuses. "ohh I didn't see you there running radar" or my fav "why didn't you pull over the guy in front of me? I was going as fast as he was to keep up with traffic.." Really?? hmmm, then you too were speeding right? LOL

I own tuner cars, so honestly, if I get pulled over for doing stupid **** irreguardless if I was provoked/entrapped, or if it was a marked or unmarked cruiser, it's still just my fault...if you decide to let your ego control your right foot, you have no one else to blame but yourself.

[Rush]

Here's where my train of thought ended up:

These days, being provoked into street racing is not something I need to be concerned about. I just don't do it.

However .. if one of these undercover cop cars were to come flying up on my ass and then start tailgating me, I would NOT hesitate to hop on my brakes to warn him to get the hell away from me. I do that to anyone that comes obnoxiously close to my rear bumper for no good reason. But could that 'brake warning' be enough to earn me a ticket? And if so, for what? Because THAT would really infuriate me.

[sleeper15]

i got into a arguement with one of my friends about this before. i was on the side of "it is entrapment".

but, after we stopped argueing, and i went home. i started doing some re-search. asking some people i know who are involved in law enforcement. and, unfourtantly, it is not considered entrapment.

it's the same as a undercover cope posing as a prositute, and you walking up and buying her "services". and, the cops can't just take any modd'd car and use it as a unmarked car for this. they got to get approved by the state i belive. so, right there, it shows it's legal.

[turboman808]

Guys if someone is tailgating you slow down. Do not do a brake check. Why would you want someone to hit your car? I don't know about you guys but my cars look good and I like to keep them that way.

Just slow down. If your in the fast lane get over. Why try and provoke or get angry at people. What do people get out of this? Prove they are tough? I don't get it.

You will never gain anything in life by getting angry.

[BlueMSProtege]

Originally Posted by 420sx

Right, but thats STILL entrapment! Even if youre NOT mature enough to not act like a tool, the fact of the matter is, YOURE BEING PROVOKED.

Provoked. Entrapment. Antagonized.

All go hand in hand.

Originally Posted by turboman808

Simple, don't race people.

If you are a criminal and police give you a chance to commit a crime and catch you in the act it's not considered entrapment.

If you are put in a position to do something you wouldn't normally do that in entrapment.

Since no one forces you to race that is not considered entrapment.

However if the driver was screaming and calling you a pussy and started throwing **** at your car that would most definitely be entrapment.

Originally Posted by 420sx

See thats where i disagree. You said "if the driver was screaming and yelling," its entrapment. How is revving and flashing your lights any different? This is not the same situation as a bait car left unattended and running at a wawa. Thats a PASSIVE bait car. This is quite the opposite- theyre TRYING to get you to **** up, TRYING to get you to race them.

If the two were equal, with the unattended bait car setup, it would be legal to PERSUADE, even PRESSURE someone into stealing it. Thats essentially what theyre doing with the street racing. If a cop PRESSURED someone to steal a car, you BET YOUR ASS that'd be entrapment. I dont see how this is ANY different.

It should be put through the same scrutiny as prostitution. Police can dress up as a prostitute but they cross the line into entrapment when they approach someone and ask if they would like to pay for sex. As long as the police are approached and it is the perp who asks for sex and offers to pay then the police have done nothing wrong, if the police seek out the perp and offer the sex for money that is entrapment. Same thing here, if some dumbass sees this car and tries to instigate a race the cops are fine but if the police instigate the race using known racing instigation tactics that is entrapment. The police cannot seek out a person and offer them the opportunity to engage in an illegal activity. A cop cannot go undercover and stand on a corner trying to sell drugs to everyone who walks by but they can stand there and engage in a sell with someone who offers first to buy

[mcperson2k]

So weird.... I have seen tons of undercover cops, but not one single time, in my entire life, have I EVER read or heard about undercover cops trying to provoke people to race them.

[Willdue]

Theres a bunch around my area. ****, right down from my shop, theres a Blacked out charger RT. I was walking past it, looked inside from far away. Spotted a FMIC, a cage and exhaust. ...And as a shop owner, i was like nice...Til the cop got out of it...

[JeremyPA]

My Car's all show and no go, and I like it that way so I don't get in trouble! haha

If I am all ready speeding in the fast lane and someone's on my ass, I just let off the gas and go slower till they go around me. I'm not speeding up for some asshat.

[SleeperGoat]

One of our local cops was my brother an me there gonna start requiring officers to wear ear cams at all times with battery packs to record what there doing at all times. He was not very happy an he said it has some nice weight an that it should cut down on things like the issue stated.

[probevette]

Originally Posted by Willdue

Theres a bunch around my area. ****, right down from my shop, theres a Blacked out charger RT. I was walking past it, looked inside from far away. Spotted a FMIC, a cage and exhaust. ...And as a shop owner, i was like nice...Til the cop got out of it...

Could have been the guys personal car. We have a few officers on here and some not on the forums that enjoy modified personal cars.

[JST2KWIK]

I definately think this is entrapment. All of you who say "you shouldn't give in or race or drive 5mph over the speed limit," wahh wahhh everyone does it including you so get over it. Even if you do not street race (I disagree with street racing because it endangers others but am not going to sit here and act high and mighty like I have never done it), everyone has made a poor decision in a situation based on being antagonized or instigated whether it be fighting because of an insult, or blowing the doors off of the beat up honda next to you because you are so tired of beat up hondas revving at your 500hp car.

Hatfield has an undercover Charger with the SRT-8 wing, SRT-8 wheels, R/T badges everywhere, and 3% tinted windows. Now, if I saw this car and decided to race simply because it looked fast (which is obviously why the police have dressed it up as they have), then NO it would not be entrapment just as going up to a girl to solicit sex just because she is dressed up as a prostitute would not be entrapment.

HOWEVER if that same girl starts enticing you or tries to grab your family jewels in promise of " $5 that will make you holla' " then that is certainly entrapment because the prostitute is clearly provoking the innocent civilian. By that same standard, what happened to me was certainly entrapment:

A while back I was driving in my 2007 BMW 335i coupe on 309 right by Walnut street (near broad street and the train tracks if you are familiar with the area). Anyway, a blacked out GTO with smoked tails and black wheels pulled up next to me at the light. My testosterone and 17 year-old immortality meant that we HAD to race. We both left the light normally but somehow got on it at the same time and raced up to 130mph (right past where all the cops sit ). There is a slight bend up there so I let off and shortly slowed down to about 45mph, and the GTO does a little later than I do. I then see the above-mentioned charger pull out after me and start weaving through traffic without a turn signal in order to catch up to us. After riding my ass, I go to stop at a yellow light that the GTO had already made it through, and the Charger cuts over, no signal, and blows the light. I could hear him accelerating and watched him proceed to ldrive irratically, tailgate, and then line up with the GTO. A few miles down the road, the GTO sat pulled over. I has lol's, he has ticket.

If the GTO just saw the charger and said man we should race just as I sw him and proceeded to do, there is no entrapment because he is the idiot. BUT if the Charger drove irradically, tail gated, etc, many people will panic and accelerate to get out of the way and when after doing that the seemingly fast car then lines up with you and proceeds to race, sorry, THAT IS ENTRAPMENT!

[Mr.Crx]

Originally Posted by 420sx

Just because you're guilty of something doesn't give them the right to unfairly catch you in the act of it.

Are you 'effing kidding me?
That is the dumbest statement I've ever heard.

God forbid ppl take responsibility and own up?

I'm not saying I don't speed or get tickets, far from the case, but I own up and deal with them accordingly.

[420sx]

Originally Posted by Mr.Crx

Are you 'effing kidding me?
That is the dumbest statement I've ever heard.

God forbid ppl take responsibility and own up?

I'm not saying I don't speed or get tickets, far from the case, but I own up and deal with them accordingly.

You still dont get it. How about you stop attacking me personally until you actually get the point Im making?

Its not about owning up to what youre responsible for. Its about being persuaded by the police to do something that you wouldnt ordinarily do. Its about your rights as an American to not have to worry about being entrapped. I think BlueMSProtege drew the best parallel with the prostitution argument. It cant be any clearer than that.

I speed, and I get tickets, just like everyone else. I get one every six months or so. **** happens. But when they catch me, they catch me FAIRLY. If I got nabbed for racing when a COP instigated and initiated the race, id be BULLSH!T over it. I dont even argue my speeding tickets, because I know I was speeding. "Welp, ya got me. Cya in court." If someone baited me into racing them, id fight it tooth and nail. Not necessarily because I believe its an illegal way of catching people- I'm sure theres some loophole that they slip through to somehow word so it doesnt sound like entrapment... but to me, thats exactly what it is. The fact that I agree to "race" (if thats what we wanna call dropping a gear) is irrelevant. If the cop initiates the race, thats entrapment, and anything I do after that (with regards to racing) can't (or shouldnt, anyway) be used against me.

[420sx]

Originally Posted by sleeper15

i got into a arguement with one of my friends about this before. i was on the side of "it is entrapment".

but, after we stopped argueing, and i went home. i started doing some re-search. asking some people i know who are involved in law enforcement. and, unfourtantly, it is not considered entrapment.

it's the same as a undercover cope posing as a prositute, and you walking up and buying her "services". and, the cops can't just take any modd'd car and use it as a unmarked car for this. they got to get approved by the state i belive. so, right there, it shows it's legal.

Another good point-

Just because its legal... doesnt make it right.