need help understanding about narrow and wideband a/f..

[SovXietday]

I'm curious to how ANYONE can think a narrowband can be used as "cheap affordable solution to know where your basemaps are at."

How about uh, no. Cheap affordable way to blow up your car though.

[MKIIISUPRA]

Originally Posted by SovXietday

I'm curious to how ANYONE can think a narrowband can be used as "cheap affordable solution to know where your basemaps are at."

How about uh, no. Cheap affordable way to blow up your car though.

How? Its easy, lean = red = bad, high risk for boost so lay off the boost/throttle and get a tune, orange = stoich = good for cruising, not boost, green = good if you're boosting. Looking back i did say solution, poor choice of words, i meant it in a temporary way until one gets a wideband in place of NOTHING to monitor AFR

[Kevin]

Narrowband A/F gauges don't do **** unless your car is at WOT. Even then they still don't do ****. My A'pexi turbo timer has an A/F gauge in it and it reads 14.7-15.0 when my RPM's are staying steady. I still don't trust it though.

Widebands are the best monitoring system hands down when it comes to your air/fuel ratio. AEM UEGO says that it is accurate up to .1

[MKIIISUPRA]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Narrowband A/F gauges don't do **** unless your car is at WOT. Even then they still don't do ****. My A'pexi turbo timer has an A/F gauge in it and it reads 14.7-15.0 when my RPM's are staying steady. I still don't trust it though.

Widebands are the best monitoring system hands down when it comes to your air/fuel ratio. AEM UEGO says that it is accurate up to .1

, again, narrowband gauges are available to give you a general idea, saying they "don't do **** *unless* your car is at WOT" is just wrong. In fact very wrong b/c at WOT most Oxygen sensors simply max out not to mention majority of ECU's go into Open loop at WOT so few sensors are actually reading anyway. Im sitting with a graph in front of me of 02 sensor Voltage vs. AFR's. Although it varies with temp. generally AFR's considered Rich are .85-1V which is about 10.3-14.3AFR, from .2V and down ranges are 14.7 and up. .2 to .85V is steady stoich ~14.7.

As it should.

If you don't trust it, maybe you should replace your 02 sensor

Yes of course WB are the best. They are more accurate, have a broader spectrum and linear unlike standard 02 sensors.

[Kevin]

WOT is all that matters anyway lol

How bout we stop swining our epenis around and just say that narrowband gauges are better on a shelf somewhere waiting for some burner to pick one up.

[MKIIISUPRA]

Originally Posted by Kevin

WOT is all that matters anyway lol

How bout we stop swining our epenis around and just say that narrowband gauges are better on a shelf somewhere waiting for some burner to pick one up.

not trying to be a smartass, just trying to enlighten

BTW, untuned part throttles kill engines all the time, we just had two recently turbo'd cars on another site blow their engines b/c of it not at all long after the install. Although 1 of them was a Zx2....so thats just a bad start right there lol

[sleepersatty99]

Originally Posted by ray@turbotek

innovate g2 wideband with gauge 289.00 minus the tst discount. also sleeper you had sent me some emails, id like to talk to you in person and go over your setup

http://www.turbotektuning.com/shop/i...products_id=40

hey ray ill send you a pm with my number and see if we can set something for this coming week. thanks

[lagos]

Originally Posted by MKIIISUPRA

I don't really see how you can say its "slow"? My readings compared to the WB are nearly syncronous. Yes is it can save you some cash if you jump straight to a WB but its still a safety cushion. When my engine was rebuilt i couldn't afford a WB and relied on teh narrow. It really helped to know if i was leaning out under boost until i could get a decent tune.

I used to have a narrow band gauge, and now I own an AEM wideband. The narrow bands are totally useless and will give you a false sense of security. They consider anything from 10-14 afr to be rich. Thats a pretty wide range and on a turbo car even 12-13afr is normally too lean. Yet a narrow band gauge would report that as rich.

Get a real wideband. You can pick up the aem for about 240bucks new on ebay. Its become very affordable and on a turbo car, a must have item.

[MKIIISUPRA]

Originally Posted by lagos

I used to have a narrow band gauge, and now I own an AEM wideband. The narrow bands are totally useless and will give you a false sense of security. They consider anything from 10-14 afr to be rich. Thats a pretty wide range and on a turbo car even 12-13afr is normally too lean. Yet a narrow band gauge would report that as rich.

Get a real wideband. You can pick up the aem for about 240bucks new on ebay. Its become very affordable and on a turbo car, a must have item.

Ill give you that but im looking at it in terms of extremities. A well built engine can handle 13 AFRs for short periods of time no problem until you can get a tune. The way i look at it is if im seeing red or orange when im boosting, this is a huge problem and there is something wrong or im in need of a tune bad so i need to back off the throttle.

[lagos]

Originally Posted by MKIIISUPRA

Ill give you that but im looking at it in terms of extremities. A well built engine can handle 13 AFRs for short periods of time no problem until you can get a tune. The way i look at it is if im seeing red or orange when im boosting, this is a huge problem and there is something wrong or im in need of a tune bad so i need to back off the throttle.

I know what your saying, but in order to see red or orange youll have to be 14afr or leaner. On a factory turbo car, you will almost never see a/f ratios that lean...even if you are running out of fuel. 12-13 afr is enough to blow headgaskets and ringlands on pump gas, yet the narrow band gauge will still read "rich".

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by lagos

I know what your saying, but in order to see red or orange youll have to be 14afr or leaner. On a factory turbo car, you will almost never see a/f ratios that lean...even if you are running out of fuel. 12-13 afr is enough to blow headgaskets and ringlands on pump gas, yet the narrow band gauge will still read "rich".

That's what I've been trying to say. Damn me and turbo cars lol

[Raven18940]

Originally Posted by MKIIISUPRA

Ill give you that but im looking at it in terms of extremities. A well built engine can handle 13 AFRs for short periods of time no problem until you can get a tune. The way i look at it is if im seeing red or orange when im boosting, this is a huge problem and there is something wrong or im in need of a tune bad so i need to back off the throttle.

The 7M is pretty sturdy, but not everyone has a well built engine. If I saw red or orange my pistons would already be in pieces.