Very Serious Issue. PA public transit users please read.

[99SL2_Modder]

Originally Posted by MuddyREX

The government should not have to "rescue" a company that has a monopoly of transportation in the region. What is sad is that Septa cannot run their business, and that the government will have to step in so that it's city will continue to have public transportation.

I understand that parts cost a lot, but if that's the reason, then how come this issue isn't happening across the country with public transit? Hell, EVERY company has to deal with rising costs, but they restructure, reorganize, and make it happen. Gas costs so damn much right now that people are driving less and using public transportation more. In theory they should be making more money, right?

I don't want to hear about the inner workings of a business and it's costs, like they are the only business that has problems with rising costs. They need to take a big look at themselves, instead of waiting to be rescued by Philadelphia taxpayers.

...SEPTA isn't being rescued.

But maybe you should read up.

SEPTA is funded by the government. It always has been. If the government is not giving out enough money, then they're going to have an issue. We all know that the government doesn't allot monies to the places that they should go.

But, of course, since you know all, maybe you could suggest something better? Restructure us. Fix it and be the hero, because apparently, no one else has bothered to try, right?

As far as parts costs, I have no idea how state run facilities do it. Maybe their allotments are better, or maybe their systems are designed differently. I mean, if a portion of the riding public weren't vandals or criminals, we wouldn't be bothering with half of the **** that's on the buses. The security, the black boxes, and now the cameras being brought up because of the 33 incident. But then again, we can't put the cameras in because the riding public would either A) whine about the costs of cameras being put in, B) cry about their privacy, or C) both. You want security, but you whine when it's brought up. So then you complain when some guy gets shot in the head right in front of your face, but still complain about cameras getting put in the bus. The riding public is retarded.

Originally Posted by sleepersatty99

we know the prices are high but WE shope around to get the best prices. and im sure if you in a large quanity you will get a discount. and stop hiring people if you dont have the money

Buying in bulk for these won't cut a discount. We can't shop around, because our application is different and has to be bought from a select group.

Oh, and hiring? Ok, SEPTA had mass hirings at certain points in years past. These people are coming up in the end of their tenure and are retiring shortly. They're hiring early to train up the ranks. Yes, it's an overlap, but it's better than being short staffed and having buses being put on hold for too long.

[foss]

ride a bike

[99SL2_Modder]

Originally Posted by foss

ride a bike

This doesn't effect me in the least.

I posted it as a courtesy to those that find it a convenience, thinking they might actually want to fight for their rides, but apparently not.

[sherwood]

what about polar bears and the ice caps melting..can we talk about that next?

[99SL2_Modder]

Originally Posted by sherwood

what about polar bears and the ice caps melting..can we talk about that next?

did you have anything useful to say, or did you just intend to make a sad attempt at humor?

[sherwood]

yea...all the polar bears are almost dead and the ice caps are melting...and were crying about seats on a bus and some bull**** like that?

[MuddyREX]

Originally Posted by 99SL2_Modder

SEPTA is funded by the government. It always has been. If the government is not giving out enough money, then they're going to have an issue. We all know that the government doesn't allot monies to the places that they should go.

Hey, did you hear that? That was Muddy inserting his foot into his mouth.

I'm not surprised that Septa is all fubared then.....but either way, it needs a huge overhaul to pull itself out of it's projected $100million+ defecit by 2008.

[wrx_snobordr]

*CAUTION LONG RANT BELOW*

SEPTA is a joke. No offense, but they are sitting in the pot of **** they made. They remind m so much of the big 3 auto makers, and we all know the **** storm they are facing.

Septa pays a starting bus driver around 13 an hour, not great. But in 5 years that same person is making over $21 an hour. Now, that is not exactly great pay but then again, $45k to drive a bus isn't terrible either. Where they get hooked up at though is health care and Pensions. They are a government organization, people expect, people should be read Unions, for the gov to provide them with health care. So, they strike and they get health care, it may not be great, but it is paid for. How many other on here get that? I know I don't make $45k a year but I still have to pay for my health care. Then there is the pensions. Again, a relic of the past, before the 401(k), the Roth IRA, normal IRA or the many other vehicles people can use to build and grow their OWN retirement. Instead, SEPTA is still doling out money for all retired workers for both Pensions and Health care.

Then we have the issue of terrible use of resources. Who uses the bus the most? I would bet that 90% of the people who use them are in the city. Yet, at 11:15 at night, I am driving home down rt 13 near bristol and I see a bus, empty, driving its route. I go to the Oxford Valley mall, I see buses sitting outside waiting to pick up 3 or 4 people. I am sorry, but do we really need either of those routes? Or at least do we need them running at the consistency they are running currently? I could single handedly go in and save them millions just by reworking certain routes. Combine certain low passenger routes so the loop is bigger and cut the need for buses. I would then go in and rework the organizational structure. Personally, I don't know how it works, but if my guess is correct it is like any union run facility, inefficiently. I would restructure it to a learning organization, everyone is trained to do every job in their area. There wouldn't be a guy to mount a tire and a guy to put it on and a guy to hold the air gun, it would be 1 guy. There wouldn't be 3 levels of management, there would be 1. It would be made up of older workers who actually do the work. There would be monthly meetings of different groups of people to discuss ways to make things run smoother, and management would do what is suggested, after all, who knows what they need better than the workers.

Another option is leasing. I am sure there are companies out there would love to get their hands on the money that could be made by owning certain bus routes. Just as we are doing with roads, lease routes to private companies. Smaller routes, instead of cutting them and losing profit, lease them and make profit. Do the same with some of the bigger routes.

But of course, this is all just a pipe dream, none of this is possible. The second you told a unionized government run company that they will have to start being like teh rest of us and paying for their insurance, pre-tax of course, or may actually have to plan for their retirement and not sit on the shoulders of all of us other working stiffs they would be out in the streets up in arms begging for our support, while we ride our bikes to our non-tenure granting, non-health care subsidizing, non-pension providing jobs.

Forget about trying to lease the routes or reorganize the business structure. It will be spun as a non-worker friendly tragedy stealing the food off of poor SEPTA workers plates. Nothing will be said about the thousands of people who will have to move or find a new job because they can't afford to ride the bus or were one of the ones whose line was cut because the SEPTA employees were not willing to budge. They also will ignore the fact that all those who may be laid off if the company was reorganized, would still be able to apply to the new companies who took over the routes, given their experience, they would have a pretty damn good shot at getting the job, and since its private, it would most likely be better anyway.

*Rant off*

[poolmike]

If Septa goes away, do I get a tax reduction??

[Chair-Force]

Originally Posted by 99SL2_Modder

You guys really know very very little about the internal workings of septa.

Do you know how much a god damn bus costs? Or how much the repairs on them are?

I think you all need a reality check. It's not SEPTA's fault that the government won't give them the money.

A guy in my squadron has worked for Septa for a lonnnnnnnng time. He loves how people blame the city and state for SEPTA's problems. In reality, its all union made propaganda. SEPTA's union will be the death of SEPTA. "Hey our company is hurtin, LETZ GO ON STRIKE FO MO MONEY!!! HELLS YEAHHHHH!"

After SEPTA emplodes, the poor people left walking to "work" should pick up trash along their route. I hate running over garbage in my car.

[wrx_snobordr]

Originally Posted by Chair-Force

A guy in my squadron has worked for Septa for a lonnnnnnnng time. He loves how people blame the city and state for SEPTA's problems. In reality, its all union made propaganda. SEPTA's union will be the death of SEPTA. "Hey our company is hurtin, LETZ GO ON STRIKE FO MO MONEY!!! HELLS YEAHHHHH!"

After SEPTA emplodes, the poor people left walking to "work" should pick up trash along their route. I hate running over garbage in my car.

Pretty much the crutch of my long rant above. Unions FTL.

[Chair-Force]

Originally Posted by wrx_snobordr

Pretty much the crutch of my long rant above. Unions FTL.

I should have just quoted you and wrote "Ditto". I have a short attention span and your reply was quite long.

For us non-text msg'ers, can you define what FTL means?

[whitezenki]

Unions suck...

It's a business, they need to work and change to survive, ****, comcast raises its rates like 10% every year, and we all know they are doing just fine but is anyone complaing? No ...

New Jersey. **** yeah

[smoger]

sorry.. i'd rather see my taxes for road repair actually GO TO road repair. dont spend MY money because some asshole who doesnt want to drive cant deal with a 50 cent fare increase.

i spend thousands upon thousands of dollars a year to drive. how much is a transpass... 60 bucks a month? boo f***ing hoo.

and for the record.. im not anti septa.. far from it. my dad has worked for them for 30 years.. but something is obviously wrong with how they do business. theres plenty of businesses with unions who dont struggle to make ends meet.(though i agree that the unions are unnecesarry in some situations)

[sleepersatty99]

thats why i say AUDIT them to see how they are spending money

[smoger]

Originally Posted by sleepersatty99

thats why i say AUDIT them to see how they are spending money

i agree

[wrx_snobordr]

Originally Posted by Chair-Force

I should have just quoted you and wrote "Ditto". I have a short attention span and your reply was quite long.

For us non-text msg'ers, can you define what FTL means?

HA HA For The Lose.

I do not HATE unions, some of them are run very well, but by and large they completely ignore some key business rules. One of them being the law of diminishing returns. They do not follow the accepted rules for employee levels so that each employee is utilized to their maximum extent. Instead of hiring one guy and training him to be proficient in many areas, they hire one guy and make him proficient in one. In some cases guys are not allowed to do a different job, it is forbidden. Some jobs that could easily be handled by one or two guys instead are handled by 5 or 6.

great example was the Philly convention center. Until recently, after some hard fought battles were won to improve its attractiveness to event planners, it was a mess. It took no less than 4 guys to put a poster on a easel. 1 guy takes the easel and poster off the truck, another takes the easel from the loading dock to the point of display, another guy to stand the easel up, a 4th to carry the sign from the loading dock and place it on the easel. Now, why does that take 4 guys? Obviously they realized this and cut it down, but many companies that are union still operate this way. You can't run that inneficiently and then when profit levels are not reach or worse, in SEPTAS case, you are running a deficit, go and complain that it is all managements fault. Managements hands are tied by the union.

[Chair-Force]

Originally Posted by wrx_snobordr

HA HA For The Lose.

I do not HATE unions, some of them are run very well, but by and large they completely ignore some key business rules. One of them being the law of diminishing returns. They do not follow the accepted rules for employee levels so that each employee is utilized to their maximum extent. Instead of hiring one guy and training him to be proficient in many areas, they hire one guy and make him proficient in one. In some cases guys are not allowed to do a different job, it is forbidden. Some jobs that could easily be handled by one or two guys instead are handled by 5 or 6.

great example was the Philly convention center. Until recently, after some hard fought battles were won to improve its attractiveness to event planners, it was a mess. It took no less than 4 guys to put a poster on a easel. 1 guy takes the easel and poster off the truck, another takes the easel from the loading dock to the point of display, another guy to stand the easel up, a 4th to carry the sign from the loading dock and place it on the easel. Now, why does that take 4 guys? Obviously they realized this and cut it down, but many companies that are union still operate this way. You can't run that inneficiently and then when profit levels are not reach or worse, in SEPTAS case, you are running a deficit, go and complain that it is all managements fault. Managements hands are tied by the union.

woid, woid
I can't care what anyone says. Unions had a part in the demise of the American shipyards, steelmills and auto industry.

[tjf]

its all John Streets fault...

they need to bring on the audit

[wrx_snobordr]

Originally Posted by tjf

its all John Streets fault...

they need to bring on the audit

An audit won't do anything though. It will show what everyone already knows, SEPTA is inefficient.

The auditors will come back and say X amount of dollars is being spent on employees and their health and pension packages. The union will come back and say that they are being unfair and then will go on the offensive saying the city is trying to screw the little guy to gain a "profit"

When bus routes are shown to be poorly planned and when the size of the bus is not appropriate for the route it operates on comes back as problems again the union will strike. They will claim that the city is planning to abandon riders, avoiding the fact that they, the union, is the root cause of the problems.

Unions fight to at least maintain the status quo and if possible increase the power they wield. Power is gained through employee masses who are loyal. To keep them loyal they need to give them increasingly attractive compensation packages, we as the tax payers are the ones who get screwed. However, we allow this activity to continue by supporting picketing employees and not doing research to see that they are much better off than many and in the case of SEPTA acheive this by taxing the rest of us more.