Please Help!!!

[jpalamar]

Originally Posted by 2slowvw

They are being closed due to not being profitable.

Exactly, thats why there is no need for a petition.

[AWD GS]

Originally Posted by Rocko15

As far as the other local businesses being affected, it's simple. If you have a workforce of roughly 2,000 people in an area each day, they are a potential customer base. If you eliminate their jobs, and they no longer visit the area where they were employed on a daily basis, that's 2,000 potential customers lost. For a small mom-and-pop business, even a loss in 5 customers a day can be difficult to overcome in this tough economy. At 5 customers a day, that's 25 for the normal business week. Say each person spends $10, that's $250 a week or $1,000 a month. That is a large loss for a small business, which is what the majority of businesses in Marcus Hook and Trainer actually are.

you realize that people live in Hook and Trainer and Linwood and Lower Chi, etc... besides people that work at the refineries. In fact more people live around the refineries then workers. Sure local business' may take a hit but trust me, the area isnt going to dry up.

[2slowvw]

Of course I realize that there's more than just the refineries. As I said opinions are different among everyone. If you don't like the idea of the petition, don't sign it. There are plenty of people that will. Out of the multiple forums I have posted it on I should have known that this one would be a problem. Thanks to those that did sign it and thanks to those that at least considered it.

[AWD GS]

i signed it as well because it doesnt matter to me if i do or dont, i just think your rationalization is a bit far fetched.

[JankyS13]

Originally Posted by AWD GS

you realize that people live in Hook and Trainer and Linwood and Lower Chi, etc... besides people that work at the refineries. In fact more people live around the refineries then workers. Sure local business' may take a hit but trust me, the area isnt going to dry up.

that area might not but when the paper mill moved out of Ontonagon Michigan. That's exactly what is happening right now. From my understanding Morrisville Pa, use to be better when the steel mill was still in this area, but I can't agree with that statement, cause IMO this place is more like a toxic waste dump. lol

[Proven]

Originally Posted by jpalamar

Exactly, thats why there is no need for a petition.

OP, correct me if I'm wrong-

They are being closed because buying pre refined Oil from overseas is cheaper. If I'm correct, the petition is to get our politicians to push for a higher tax / Tariff on these particular imports so that it would make more sense to refine here (cost wise) ultimately keeping, if not creating more jobs here. (Yes, higher taxes can and DOES create jobs, don't listen to POS Politicians saying other words just to get their friends more billions)

It is a long shot, but it will at least let it be known that more and more Americans are starting to understand that the way things are now are ONLY benefiting Billionaires and in the process killing American jobs.

Sunoco is already very profitable!!!!!! (Billionaires), They do not need to be buying from overseas but because the Tax is so low, why not, its more money for themselves.

[Rocko15]

Originally Posted by AWD GS

you realize that people live in Hook and Trainer and Linwood and Lower Chi, etc... besides people that work at the refineries. In fact more people live around the refineries then workers. Sure local business' may take a hit but trust me, the area isnt going to dry up.

I do realize this. My father is from the area, my grandmother still lives there, and I know a lot of other residents. I'm not saying all of these businesses will absolutely close, but they will be affected.

You realize that 90% of Marcus Hook families are below the poverty line, right?

I'm not saying that everyone should sign the petition. It is a nice gesture, but unfortunately it wont accomplish anything. I was just responding to the person who said they don't understand how the local businesses will be hurt

[Rocko15]

Originally Posted by Proven

OP, correct me if I'm wrong-

They are being closed because buying pre refined Oil from overseas is cheaper. If I'm correct, the petition is to get our politicians to push for a higher tax / Tariff on these particular imports so that it would make more sense to refine here (cost wise) ultimately keeping, if not creating more jobs here. (Yes, higher taxes can and DOES create jobs, don't listen to POS Politicians saying other words just to get their friends more billions)

It is a long shot, but it will at least let it be known that more and more Americans are starting to understand that the way things are now are ONLY benefiting Billionaires and in the process killing American jobs.

Sunoco is already very profitable!!!!!! (Billionaires), They do not need to be buying from overseas but because the Tax is so low, why not, its more money for themselves.

Sunoco as a whole may be profitable, but the two refineries they are trying to sell have lost over $700 million in the past few years. If you were running that company, would you continue to operate the refineries at a loss?

And higher taxes don't necessarily create jobs. You can make a case for both sides.

[Proven]

Originally Posted by Rocko15

Sunoco as a whole may be profitable, but the two refineries they are trying to sell have lost over $700 million in the past few years. If you were running that company, would you continue to operate the refineries at a loss?

And higher taxes don't necessarily create jobs. You can make a case for both sides.

They "Lost" over the last couple years by not taking advantage of how cheap it is to import pre-refined. They ARE making profit using these facilities, they just aren't making as much as they would by strictly buying from over seas and taking advantage of the low import tax. They call this a "Loss"....

There's many different kinds of Taxes Corporations take on. This particular one, if raised, would help keep jobs here and Sunoco would still be making Billions.

Not sure how I'm trying to make a case for both sides.

[russiankid]

Originally Posted by 2slowvw

Soooooo, lets add on a few more. **** it close the other 2 plants...right?
Trainer has been idled as of the moment, make northeast refining profitable and maybe it will sell.

There is already word going around as to who is looking to buy the refinery, I know this because my dad works at Trainer.

[Rocko15]

Originally Posted by Proven

They "Lost" over the last couple years by not taking advantage of how cheap it is to import pre-refined. They ARE making profit using these facilities, they just aren't making as much as they would by strictly buying from over seas and taking advantage of the low import tax. They call this a "Loss"....

There's many different kinds of Taxes Corporations take on. This particular one, if raised, would help keep jobs here and Sunoco would still be making Billions.

Not sure how I'm trying to make a case for both sides.

Where exactly are you getting your information from? Because you're argument doesn't even agree with itself. If you're saying they can turn a profit by importing pre-refined fuel from overseas, there is nothing to refine, and no reason to operate the refineries. Which is why they are selling them. If you are importing pre-refined product, you only need storage to hold it.

Sunoco is losing money operating the refineries. There is no "if we were selling pre-refined from overseas, we would make more" argument going on. The refineries are operating at a loss. Plain and simple.

And I didn't say you personally were making a case for both sides. I said "you" as in anyone can make a case that raising or lowering taxes creates jobs. It just depends on someone's personal viewpoint. But, you're not talking about a tax, you're talking about a tariff. There's a difference.

[importpower99]

Originally Posted by 2slowvw

They are being closed due to not being profitable. The Sunoco plants are up and running until but for sale until July of 2012. After that they idle the plants. The thought that is going on here is that the New York Harbor is being flooded with what is waste from Europe (refined gasoline). Europe relies on Diesel. Europe floods the US with this at a lower price than it can be produced here, they don't have to pay a tarriff as of right now. You throw a tarriff on it and make the northeastern plants profittable again then there's a reason for another company to buy the plants. As of now the only way anybody will buy any of the three plants being mentioned is for tank storage. Tank storage requires minimal employees down into the double digits.
How do you find my theory for the local buisnesses suffering far fetched? As i stated in a previous post, go talk to any of the shop owners local to a plant and see if what they have to say. When you own a shop that you are getting 20-30 multi person orders a day from a buisness, see how that shop will be affected. Then take the same shop and increase their property tax due top the big buisnesses shutting down and see what happens.
I hear ya on the fossil fuels running out eventually. Thats not the problem here though. I don't care if your for or against Dino oil. the fact is your looking at eliminating thousands of jobs. Not just gas station attendent type jobs either your talking 80K plus annual jobs. Think of how much tax money goes bye bye. I know I pay more in taxes now than most of my freinds take home. You don't want any more jobs eliminated in todays economy, but think of the impact when you take lets say an average of $10k a year on federal taxes multipled by a few thousand. Your talking in the 10s of millions of federal money going BYE BYE.
What this basically is when it comes down to it is to try to save ALOT of jobs.
Either way I understand that opinions come in all different shapes, sizes, colors etc.

I'm not gonna pretend I know a lot about the oil refineries in the Americas..but i can explain business.
One thing you need to understand is that the less oil refineries that the oil companies have, the more they can charge you (Supply/Demand). They can increase gross margin on producing less product but charging more...don't believe me? Watch the gas prices...although we do sell alot of oil to oversea countries. Think this is a lie? It's not, it happened in the 90's and after hurricane Katrina, except after Katrina the bigger companies (Sunoco) used their leverage to force the little guys to shut down. So if these are sunoco refineries, than good, consider it revenge from the smaller guys.

We can debate the whole local business destruction another time, I do not want to veer of course.

And yes, this is a bad time to lose jobs. But you have to be smart about were you work. IF you know your competition is killing you, then a you should probably make a career change. I was in the mortgage business until it exploded and i lost my job, but if i was smart, i would have gotten out ahead of time.

I applaud your enthusiasm for trying to get this petition signed and make a difference in your community. Don't let "nay-Sayers" like my self slow you down. But always wonder if there is a reason this happening and maybe its unpreventable.
"Look at the forest and not the tree"

[kunt_masha]

i tried to sign but it came up with an error...


My dad has worked for Sunoco / Conoco most of his life so he is out of work now. I feel your pain!

[2slowvw]

well, now that Marcus Hook is done along with Trainer, I'm interested to see what happens. There's already a smaller chemical plant that is talking about shutting their doors, since the Polypropylene was bought from Sunoco and has now lost their supply. So now you can say over 400 Sunoco workers out of jobs for a Christmas Present. Who knows the amount of contractors, but most refineries have more contractors than employees. Now lets watch the rest crumple.