does powder coating actually weaken a wheel?

[dangerousatom]

Originally Posted by twastheglow

And dangerous, you obviously don't think powder coating is a problem...do you think that with both cast and forged equally?

I could not answer that with out shooting totally into the dark.

If I where to guess Id say a cast wheel will get stronger if heated numerous times. Due to the molecules aliening them selves more and more with every dose of heat. But what heat.temps are need to do this I dont know.....for aluminum Id think 700+
For a forged wheel Im very unsure on. A forged wheels molecules are already in some state of stress due to compression/extrusion. Granted they are aliened far stronger than a straight casting. Heat can make or brake the alignment. In the end I think it all comes down to the annealing temperature of Aluminum and weather its different for cast vs forged.

[twastheglow]

Originally Posted by dangerousatom

I could not answer that with out shooting totally into the dark.

If I where to guess Id say a cast wheel will get stronger if heated numerous times. Due to the molecules aliening them selves more and more with every dose of heat. But what heat.temps are need to do this I dont know.....for aluminum Id think 700+
For a forged wheel Im very unsure on. A forged wheels molecules are already in some state of stress due to compression/extrusion. Granted they are aliened far stronger than a straight casting. Heat can make or brake the alignment. In the end I think it all comes down to the annealing temperature of Aluminum and weather its different for cast vs forged.

That was somewhat my take on it too. From my limited understanding it seems that cast wheels would fare better than it's forged counterpart.

I am going to take your advice and try to locate a metallurgist that I could ask these questions to. I think that's a great idea.

[dangerousatom]

Cool......Id try and contact a company who makes Nitro Drag car wheels of something like that. From what I can remember they are never painted/colored they are always polished. This could be for a few reason, paint PC has some weight to it ( we all know weight is bad ) or it could be for the reason you are searching.
Good luck with the hunt! .......and let us know if we all need to scrap our powder coated wheels ASAP because they are going to fail

[twastheglow]

Originally Posted by dangerousatom

Cool......Id try and contact a company who makes Nitro Drag car wheels of something like that. From what I can remember they are never painted/colored they are always polished. This could be for a few reason, paint PC has some weight to it ( we all know weight is bad ) or it could be for the reason you are searching.
Good luck with the hunt! .......and let us know if we all need to scrap our powder coated wheels ASAP because they are going to fail

I'll check that out. Thanks for the info.

And regardless of what is fact, there's definitely no need to scrap your powder coated wheels. lol I know you were being sarcastic, but I'm certainly not on a crusade to make a point...that point being powder coating is bad. And even if it does weaken a wheel, I'm pretty sure no one here is abusing their street wheels to the point where it's going to matter. However, people whom compete with their cars might be interested in knowing. It's just something I find interesting and no one seems to have an answer.

[marshallpre1]

AWD > RWD

/thread

[Slevin]

Originally Posted by dangerousatom

You Sir need to talk with a Metallurgists with an Engineering Degree to get your answer

the best way to your answer would be this or an organic chemist maybe. ill ask my ochem2 teacher, but for now just google one and send them an email saying its for a high school project and you'll probably get a legitimate response

[twastheglow]

Originally Posted by Slevin

the best way to your answer would be this or an organic chemist maybe. ill ask my ochem2 teacher, but for now just google one and send them an email saying its for a high school project and you'll probably get a legitimate response

I have been looking for someone whom seems they would know the answer. I have yet to find anyone though. Good call on the highschool project, I think that's a good idea.

And in the meantime, please do ask your teacher just for arguements sake.

[bordin34]

I would think that your brakes would have a bigger effect on the strength of your wheels than powder coating. When driving, the brakes get very hot and some of that heat is transferred to the wheel. I would say that after some spirited driving the wheel centers could get to about the same temperature as powder coating them.

[twastheglow]

Originally Posted by bordin34

I would think that your brakes would have a bigger effect on the strength of your wheels than powder coating. When driving, the brakes get very hot and some of that heat is transferred to the wheel. I would say that after some spirited driving the wheel centers could get to about the same temperature as powder coating them.

I have nothing to back up my opinion, but I definitely don't think wheel centers get that hot from brakes. Not the kind of temperatures I'm thinking of at least.

[Slevin]

Originally Posted by bordin34

I would think that your brakes would have a bigger effect on the strength of your wheels than powder coating. When driving, the brakes get very hot and some of that heat is transferred to the wheel. I would say that after some spirited driving the wheel centers could get to about the same temperature as powder coating them.

with my biophysics background i would say doubtful but you never know. the main thing here i would think would be the expansion of the wheel and the adhesion of the paint to the wheel during the baking process. the paint could bind to the wheels surface structure making it weaker because the density of paint is less than the density of the metal compound used. that wouldn't really make the wheels structural integrity weaker as a whole though. but like i said, you never know, crazy things happen in science haha.

[twastheglow]

^ Here's a link suggesting they don't get anywhere near the heat from an oven.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/arch.../t-865562.html

[DaBombDiggidy]

good point from before as it may be the factor in failure there are too many "ifs" that could let the companies get away from replacing their work. try and hit up one of the big universities the professors in each department usually have emails listed on the site. complete shot in the dark but PITT may have professors that do alot of work with metals because of the area.

a few links for you my friend

http://mte.eng.ua.edu/

http://www.imetllc.com/

V guy listed with email V
http://www.metallurgists.org/resumes/coates.htm

[twastheglow]

Originally Posted by DaBombDiggidy

good point from before as it may be the factor in failure there are too many "ifs" that could let the companies get away from replacing their work. try and hit up one of the big universities the professors in each department usually have emails listed on the site. complete shot in the dark but PITT may have professors that do alot of work with metals because of the area.

a few links for you my friend

http://mte.eng.ua.edu/

http://www.imetllc.com/

V guy listed with email V
http://www.metallurgists.org/resumes/coates.htm

Great post! Thank you.

[DaBombDiggidy]

http://www.georgiapowdercoating.com/faqs/

"Q. What items can be Powder Coated?
A. Any electrically conductive metal or material that can withstand 400° F temperature without losing its integrity."

next i would look up what metals make up the wheels in question and look to see their heat threshold.

& no problem im interested myself. right now im leaning towards some type of wheels can withstand this while others cant. i know cast iron (from talking to someone about manifolds) with heat tends to expand and that rapid expansion > cold can cause it to crack hence why it was so hard to find someone to weld a mani im going to use. while this isnt used on wheels ( i dont think) its good to know which metals act different ways especially with fabrication & the money we spend on things.

[twastheglow]

Originally Posted by DaBombDiggidy

http://www.georgiapowdercoating.com/faqs/

"Q. What items can be Powder Coated?
A. Any electrically conductive metal or material that can withstand 400° F temperature without losing its integrity."

next i would look up what metals make up the wheels in question and look to see their heat threshold.

& no problem im interested myself. right now im leaning towards some type of wheels can withstand this while others cant. i know cast iron (from talking to someone about manifolds) with heat tends to expand and that rapid expansion > cold can cause it to crack hence why it was so hard to find someone to weld a mani im going to use. while this isnt used on wheels ( i dont think) its good to know which metals act different ways especially with fabrication & the money we spend on things.

Unfortunately, I don't think it's as cut and dry as that...although maybe it is. These are some of the questions that I'm interested in having answered.

[TNTramair]

my opinion is this....if high profile wheel companys such as CCW and DPE offer powder coating than i dont see an issue with PC. no company would offer this option if they felt they would be putting themselves in line for a class action lawsuit if things go bad.

[twastheglow]

Originally Posted by TNTramair

my opinion is this....if high profile wheel companys such as CCW and DPE offer powder coating than i dont see an issue with PC. no company would offer this option if they felt they would be putting themselves in line for a class action lawsuit if things go back.

Interesting point.

[05GT]

Originally Posted by TNTramair

my opinion is this....if high profile wheel companys such as CCW and DPE offer powder coating than i dont see an issue with PC. no company would offer this option if they felt they would be putting themselves in line for a class action lawsuit if things go bad.

While I understand your point here, I'm going to play devils advocate on this particular point.

Aftermarket companies also sell slotted and drilled rotors. This is also an area of debate. Technically, drilling the rotors gives you less surface area and less strength, which is why if you've ever seen cracked rotors, the cracks are always right in line with the drilled holes.

So just because an aftermarket company offers a product, that doesn't mean with 100% certainty, that it doesn't have adverse effects as well as benefits.

[twastheglow]

Originally Posted by 05GT

While I understand your point here, I'm going to play devils advocate on this particular point.

Aftermarket companies also sell slotted and drilled rotors. This is also an area of debate. Technically, drilling the rotors gives you less surface area and less strength, which is why if you've ever seen cracked rotors, the cracks are always right in line with the drilled holes.

So just because an aftermarket company offers a product, that doesn't mean with 100% certainty, that it doesn't have adverse effects as well as benefits.

Interesting counterpoint. lol

[TNTramair]

Originally Posted by 05GT

While I understand your point here, I'm going to play devils advocate on this particular point.

Aftermarket companies also sell slotted and drilled rotors. This is also an area of debate. Technically, drilling the rotors gives you less surface area and less strength, which is why if you've ever seen cracked rotors, the cracks are always right in line with the drilled holes.

So just because an aftermarket company offers a product, that doesn't mean with 100% certainty, that it doesn't have adverse effects as well as benefits.

thats a little differant...think about it...there is no added advantage to PC a wheel other than appearance and protection from rust. having cross drilled and slotted rotors serves a purpose..its better for performance. yes there is less material there however the reason rotors crack in the first place is b/c of heat, a cross drilled and slotted rotor will dissapate (sp?) the heat.

ive had the same cross drilled and slotted Baer rotors on my car now for 10 plus years and they have performed flawlessly. they been through 3 sets of pads...no cracks or warpage.

so with that said, a rotor cracks it'll cause some squealing and/or some grinding...it wont fall apart unless you buy a set of them for $100.00....you get what you pay for. a wheel would be a little differant when you're talking about the integraty of the wheel itself...that can turn real bad real fast so companys would probably not go down that route if they could avoid to do so. there would also be disclaimer warning customer not to have the wheels powder coated due to adverse effects. but i do understand what you're saying. this is just my opinion.