Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

[Protege v2.5]

Originally Posted by jpalamar

Truth.

Not so much, this has nothing to do with promoting the use of drugs. Although some will try to spin it that way.

[max2k1]

The country really needs to try something different when it comes to drugs. Over in Europe, I believe it was Amsterdam, had a severe problem with heroine users laying all over the place, violent crime, HIVand AIDS numbers rising dramatically from needle sharing. To combat the violent crime the country changed its view on drugs. Heroine addicts could go and actually get a perscription from a doctor for heroine. They could then go to special facility to get their heroine, clean needle to use, and a safe place to shoot up. All of this on the governments tab. The crime rate dropped drastically. And the cost of the program is cheaper than having to arrest them, and house them in jail. Along with the cost of police responding to and investigating those violent crimes... In either Chicago or Detroit a program sort of like the one in Europe is going on. Parts of the city offer a safe place for addicts to shoot up, along with clean steril needles. Crime in those area's has gone down along with the number of new reported HIV and AIDS carriers

[jpalamar]

Originally Posted by max2k1

The country really needs to try something different when it comes to drugs. Over in Europe, I believe it was Amsterdam, had a severe problem with heroine users laying all over the place, violent crime, HIVand AIDS numbers rising dramatically from needle sharing. To combat the violent crime the country changed its view on drugs. Heroine addicts could go and actually get a perscription from a doctor for heroine. They could then go to special facility to get their heroine, clean needle to use, and a safe place to shoot up. All of this on the governments tab. The crime rate dropped drastically. And the cost of the program is cheaper than having to arrest them, and house them in jail. Along with the cost of police responding to and investigating those violent crimes... In either Chicago or Detroit a program sort of like the one in Europe is going on. Parts of the city offer a safe place for addicts to shoot up, along with clean steril needles. Crime in those area's has gone down along with the number of new reported HIV and AIDS carriers

I don't care how high the crime rate is and may be lowered, helping people to do drugs is just the wrong answer.

[max2k1]

Originally Posted by jpalamar

I don't care how high the crime rate is and may be lowered, helping people to do drugs is just the wrong answer.

They are going to do it anyway. Why not keep them from hurting other people for it?

[jpalamar]

Originally Posted by max2k1

They are going to do it anyway. Why not keep them from hurting other people for it?

Give them a safe place to do drugs doesn't curb how they will go about obtaining it.

[turboman808]

If any of you are against legalizing drugs and drink you do realize the hypocrisy in that don't you?


As a libertarian I say let people do whatever the **** they want. Its amazing to me how the more responsibility you take for yourself the more responsible you become.

Having someone hold your hand your whole life is no way to live.

That being said I've tried weed, didn't like it, tried coke, that was ok, tried E and thats alot of fun if you got a kinky nympho girlfriend. No of those things killed me. I didn't end up on the streets. I have a 170 IQ, 3 bachelors degrees, a loving family, probably more successful then others on this forum. I don't think drugs did me any damage.

I do like to bull**** on forums a bit to much though.

[Proven]

I agree that legalizing drugs will solve a lot of problems but clearly not all of them along with possibly raising other issues. W/ any law (or lack of) if's, and's, and but's will exists depending on what way you think.

On one side of the story you have-

1. Legal drugs will lower drug related crime
2. Drugs will be less appealing because they are legal
3. Police can now focus time and money on other violent crimes
4. Money made from drugs will now go into banks, create jobs, and make people a lot of money

Other side of the story-

1. Legal drugs WILL create more addicts
2. Drugs dealers will get into other types of business (car/boat theft, robbery, kid napping, etc etc.)
3. Current and future addicts will NEED money to feed their addiction (robbery, theft, etc)
4. More people will be out on the roads, operating equipment, etc impaired around non users (drugs are easier to hide then alcohol).

Weight out the options along with many others not mentioned. Try to remember also that the way YOU think isn't the almighty right way.

NO ONE is delusional for the way they think or what they see the results creating, you both right - in ways.

I love how the "I'm right and your stupid for not thinking my way guys showed up"..

[Proven]

Originally Posted by turboman808

If any of you are against legalizing drugs and drink you do realize the hypocrisy in that don't you?


As a libertarian I say let people do whatever the **** they want. Its amazing to me how the more responsibility you take for yourself the more responsible you become.

Having someone hold your hand your whole life is no way to live.

That being said I've tried weed, didn't like it, tried coke, that was ok, tried E and thats alot of fun if you got a kinky nympho girlfriend. No of those things killed me. I didn't end up on the streets. I have a 170 IQ, 3 bachelors degrees, a loving family, probably more successful then others on this forum. I don't think drugs did me any damage.

I do like to bull**** on forums a bit to much though.

I've also smoked weed, a lot!.. Then stopped and never did anything again. Does this mean no one else in the world has a drug problem? Does it mean putting weed, coke, and heroin on store shelves will equal no issues? For us, no issues! No issue at all because we don't use and were lucky enough to not get addicted or get into harder stuff. For OTHERS the story could be different. Should we not care about them because we are ok?

You have kids? Would you offer them coke or weed to try? No? Why? because you care about them? Why should the market offer it to the public then? Would you be upset if your 18 year old started bangin out lines at diner? If so why? Can't he do anything he wants? If you tell me you wouldn't care I'd be shocked.. If you do care why not care about other people the same way?

[jpalamar]

Originally Posted by Proven

I've also smoked weed, a lot!.. Then stopped and never did anything again. Does this mean no one else in the world has a drug problem? Does it mean putting weed, coke, and heroin on store shelves will equal no issues? For us, no issues! No issue at all because we don't use and were lucky enough to not get addicted or get into harder stuff. For OTHERS the story could be different. Should we not care about them because we are ok?

You have kids? Would you offer them coke or weed to try? No? Why? because you care about them? Why should the market offer it to the public then? Would you be upset if your 18 year old started bangin out lines at diner? If so why? Can't he do anything he wants? If you tell me you wouldn't care I'd be shocked.. If you do care why not care about other people the same way?

I like the way you put it.

Originally Posted by turboman808

If any of you are against legalizing drugs and drink you do realize the hypocrisy in that don't you?

I only drink an occassional glass of wine with dinner and that is only to set the flavor of the food off.

[turboman808]

Not my job to raise your kids or tell you what to do. I only need to raise my kids and take care of my family.

I'm not gonna agree to unconstitutional laws because you are a bad parent.

Seriously though if someone has an addictive personality they are gonna end up doing drugs no matter what. All the laws in the world will not change that.

[tomustang]

Originally Posted by turboman808

Seriously though if someone has an addictive personality they are gonna end up doing drugs no matter what. All the laws in the world will not change that.

Not if they aren't introduced to it

The laws do help curb that a bit, but so does good parenting. I have to say though that parenting these days is a lot worse than before unfortunately.

[bastid]

Originally Posted by Proven

1. Legal drugs WILL create more addicts

Proof?

Originally Posted by Proven

2. Drugs dealers will get into other types of business (car/boat theft, robbery, kid napping, etc etc.)

Can you provide factual support?

Originally Posted by Proven

3. Current and future addicts will NEED money to feed their addiction (robbery, theft, etc)

Is this true of alcoholics? Alcohol is legal and abuse is widespread. Why don't we see people killed over a bottle of Jim Beam? Do you have any information to support this?

Originally Posted by Proven

4. More people will be out on the roads, operating equipment, etc impaired around non users (drugs are easier to hide then alcohol).

Please provide us some factual support? People are already driving and/or going to work impaired, and there are already laws on the books for DWI.

Originally Posted by Proven

"I'm right and your stupid for not thinking my way guys showed up"..

I don't think it's that. It's more "Defend your opinion with facts or evidence rather than assumptions and we'll respect them as being valid."

[Protege v2.5]

Anyone who goes to high school is introduced to any number of drugs or someone who can get them. Laws will scare a few % of the pop from doing them but good information/good parenting will keep most from touching the harder drugs.

[Scapegoat]

Originally Posted by bastid

Proof?

didn't china have a huge issue when opium was permitted in the 1800's?

[soCo]

Originally Posted by Protege v2.5

Anyone who goes to high school is introduced to any number of drugs or someone who can get them. Laws will scare a few % of the pop from doing them but good information/good parenting will keep most from touching the harder drugs.

This.

At least for me it was easier to get drugs than it was to get alcohol in high school.

[bastid]

Originally Posted by Scapegoat

didn't china have a huge issue when opium was permitted in the 1800's?

I will have to do more research on this example, but based on the limited material I pulled up to make this reply, it seems definitive conclusions are tough to come by. A paper of a Harvard Economics Professor concluded it didn't increase based on ending prohibition. Nor did making it a capital offense (punishable by death) reduce use (http://www.economics.harvard.edu/fil...umwars_ael.pdf).

I think if something is legal and obtainable, it will appeal to a marginally increased percentage of users. The same could be said about tobacco which is largely responsible for 435,000 deaths annually, or alcohol being responsible for 85,000. For the record, that source also shows illicit drug use causing 17,000 deaths annually and 0 deaths for marijuana. These are numbers from 2000 on http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30

I, for one, wouldn't do acid, MDMA, etc even if it were legal.

[tomustang]

Originally Posted by Protege v2.5

Thoughts?


http://www.leap.cc

thoughts..

That organization screams hypocrisy

Law enforcement who doesn't want to enforce law heh

[SpEcRv9]

Originally Posted by bastid

I, for one, wouldn't do acid, MDMA, etc even if it were legal.

yep, and according to polls on LEAP.cc neither would 99% of people....it's not like it'd create millions of new addicts...it'd be the same amount introducing themselves to the drugs each year, and the same amount getting addicted each year.

It just wouldn't turn a health issue into a criminal issue...

[turboman808]

My office is near some sort of rehab or methdone clinic. Bring you kids over here to interact with these zombies and they will never use drugs. They are scary.

And thats part of the problem. We want to shelter kids from this stuff.

Here is how you will end up if you don't study hard Timmy.

http://drugabuseawareness.com/

[turboman808]

Originally Posted by tomustang

thoughts..

That organization screams hypocrisy

Law enforcement who doesn't want to enforce law heh

They swear an oath to the constitution. Drug laws are unconstitutional.