Undercover Police cars

[420sx]

Originally Posted by ASIAN JUL

If you don't street race at all, I suppose you don't have to worry about being baited into street racing with a cop, now do you?

Thats like saying

"If you dont kill people, what difference does it make if the police come looking for evidence without a warrant? If you didnt do it, it shouldnt matter!"

Thats crap.

[ASIAN JUL]

Originally Posted by 420sx

Thats like saying

"If you dont kill people, what difference does it make if the police come looking for evidence without a warrant? If you didnt do it, it shouldnt matter!"

Thats crap.

Spoken like a true cynic. That's not a fair parallel whatsoever. If you want to be so ridiculous as to compare it to violating your rights in a murder investigation to being baited into street racing, then my advice to not let a cop talk you into murdering someone.

[turboman808]

Originally Posted by 420sx

Thats like saying

"If you dont kill people, what difference does it make if the police come looking for evidence without a warrant? If you didnt do it, it shouldnt matter!"

Thats crap.

Thats really not the same at all. LOL

[420sx]

Originally Posted by Scapegoat

http://www.lectlaw.com/def/e024.htm

judging from the quotes, the cop didn't get out of the car and talk anyone into racing.

Thank you for missing my point completely.

I ask how revving and flashing your lights is any different from talking them into it? Either way, theyre being (at a minimum) persuaded, if not pressured. Just because its non-verbal communication doesnt make it any better in my book.

[ASIAN JUL]

Originally Posted by turboman808

Thats really not the same at all. LOL

I giggled as well.

[Jimbolion]

Originally Posted by Foolinaround

^
schwing.

Havent you ever seen the euro evos?

we'd be so ****ed.

[15psi88]

Entrapment is forcing you to do something you wouldn't normally do. No ultimatum is offered here. It's not "race me or I'll kill you". No one is forcing anything on you. If you're dumb enough to race a cop, you're dumb enough to race a civilian.
It's not entrapment.

[marshallpre1]

Haha my buddy (300ZX TT) and I got harassed by a cop last weekend because someone called and said we were 'racing'. In fact, we were tailed and he DIDN'T see anything. We were just cruising, he was following me, and we were going the speed limit. LOL. Talk about profiling. If we drove MUSCLE cars, we would have been left alone.

It's amazing how one sided the law is.

[420sx]

Originally Posted by ASIAN JUL

Spoken like a true cynic. That's not a fair parallel whatsoever. If you want to be so ridiculous as to compare it to violating your rights in a murder investigation to being baited into street racing, then my advice to not let a cop talk you into murdering someone.

Originally Posted by turboman808

Thats really not the same at all. LOL

Its the same line of thinking that allows police to get away with being unconstitutional.

"Well if youre not a murderer, youve got nothing to hide."
vs
"Well if you dont street race, you shouldnt have to worry about being entrapped."

I understand the comparison may be a bit off, but its that line of thinking that allows the government to continually take away our rights. We'll, I dont street race, so they can put whatever laws they want in to prevent street racing. Even if it includes entrapment.

[420sx]

Originally Posted by 15psi88

Entrapment is forcing you to do something you wouldn't normally do. No ultimatum is offered here. It's not "race me or I'll kill you". No one is forcing anything on you. If you're dumb enough to race a cop, you're dumb enough to race a civilian.
It's not entrapment.

Word it however you want, Entrapment is putting someone in a position to do something where they ORDINARILY would NOT have done that.

Call it forcing, persuading, pressuring, whatever, its all just wording, and its all irrelevant. The bottom line is- WOULD YOU HAVE TRIED TO RACE had that bait car not antagonized you to begin with? If the answer is no, its ENTRAPMENT.

[bmatyeah]

Originally Posted by marshallpre1

If we drove MUSCLE cars, we would have

lol, i have a ticket for "failure to stop completely" at a stop sign because i drive a red mustang. I down shifted stopped, put the car back in first, but i was young and did not know how to argue it.. Ive gotten 2 tickets for 7- 10 over. that comment is false.

[420sx]

Originally Posted by bmatyeah

lol, i have a ticket for "failure to stop completely" at a stop sign because i drive a red mustang. I down shifted stopped, put the car back in first, but i was young and did not know how to argue it.. Ive gotten 2 tickets for 7- 10 over. that comment is false.

Hate to break it to ya... but a 1997 Mustang isnt a muscle car.

jk jk, we wont get into that in this thread. lol

But I'd be more inclined to say it was due to the color, not the make/model.

[Mr.Crx]

Originally Posted by 420sx

Word it however you want, Entrapment is putting someone in a position to do something where they ORDINARILY would NOT have done that.

What a lame BS excuse.
If you street raced, got caught, own up to it.
Nobody MADE you do it.
What happened to taking responsibility for ones actions?

So I suppose Tru Tv's "Bait Car" and NBC's "To catch a predator" are entrapment scenarios too?

[15psi88]

Let me help you with this.
Lets say the guy that wants to race is not a cop.
He gets up beside you rev's, cuts the bov loose, etc etc,..
You already said if he's annoying you, you're gonna throw it down a gear and peace.
He's obviously gonna follow your lead, and stay in it to catch you.
Now it's a race. Even though that's not what youintended.

So you would agree that if someone antagonizes you enough, something you would "normally" do would be to gtfo of dodge, and inadvertently race?

[ASIAN JUL]

Originally Posted by 420sx

Its the same line of thinking that allows police to get away with being unconstitutional.

"Well if youre not a murderer, youve got nothing to hide."
vs
"Well if you dont street race, you shouldnt have to worry about being entrapped."

I understand the comparison may be a bit off, but its that line of thinking that allows the government to continually take away our rights. We'll, I dont street race, so they can put whatever laws they want in to prevent street racing. Even if it includes entrapment.

No, no, no.

Cop revving at you to get you to commit a crime ≠ a cop investigating you unfairly after something you already supposedly committed the crime.

[turboman808]

Originally Posted by 420sx

Its the same line of thinking that allows police to get away with being unconstitutional.

"Well if youre not a murderer, youve got nothing to hide."
vs
"Well if you dont street race, you shouldnt have to worry about being entrapped."

I understand the comparison may be a bit off, but its that line of thinking that allows the government to continually take away our rights. We'll, I dont street race, so they can put whatever laws they want in to prevent street racing. Even if it includes entrapment.

Not really.

I am a libertarian and a constitutionalists. Not to mention I have a very big distaste for cops and courts in general if people haven't noticed.

But if you are ready and willing to do something that will get you into trouble and the cop only has to flash his lights to get you to do it then you are gonna have a real hard time proving entrapment.

Now if you got a pound of drugs in your trunk and they go searching your car when you told them they cannot you might have a case.


I am not sure what the law is on street racing but it is a criminal offense. Since you mention rights. By street racing they can prove that you are making the roads unsafe for everyone else and therefore violating the 4 amendment. However the cops is the one accusing you and he was street racing with you so thats a bit of a grey area.

I'm not telling you what to do. I am saying if you got caught and they arrested you your case is flawed and you won't win with this line of thinking. Sorry you just won't.

Your best bet if you got caught like this is to kiss the cops ass so they just give you a speeding ticket and don't charge you with a crime. You can get rid of speeding tickets very easy. Proving entrapment and accusing the cop of entrapment are another thing all together. You accuse the cops to their face of entrapment and it's not a clear cut case of it they will arrest you.

[marshallpre1]

Originally Posted by bmatyeah

lol, i have a ticket for "failure to stop completely" at a stop sign because i drive a red mustang. I down shifted stopped, put the car back in first, but i was young and did not know how to argue it.. Ive gotten 2 tickets for 7- 10 over. that comment is false.

I meant the older muscle cars circa 1960s-1970s. They race up and down the same road I'm on with their open headers and NEVER get pulled over. I guess it depends from town to town...

[420sx]

Originally Posted by Mr.Crx

So I suppose Tru Tv's "Bait Car" and NBC's "To catch a predator" are entrapment scenarios too?

Like I already said, the "Bait Car" is a passive bait. They set the trap, and let the criminal COME TO THEM. Revving your car at someone else excessively is not the same.

Originally Posted by 15psi88

Let me help you with this.
Lets say the guy that wants to race is not a cop.
He gets up beside you rev's, cuts the bov loose, etc etc,..
You already said if he's annoying you, you're gonna throw it down a gear and peace.
He's obviously gonna follow your lead, and stay in it to catch you.
Now it's a race. Even though that's not what youintended.

So you would agree that if someone antagonizes you enough, something you would "normally" do would be to gtfo of dodge, and inadvertently race?

I think in any instance where someone accepts to race, they should be convicted of it. I'm not arguing that. Im arguing the practice of getting them to accept the race. The manner in which it is done. I think there is a HUUUUGE population of people who DONT race on the streets at all, but like me, will drop a gear when provoked. I think its bull**** to target those people, rather than the antagonists TRYING to race.

Originally Posted by ASIAN JUL

No, no, no.

Cop revving at you to get you to commit a crime ≠ a cop investigating you unfairly after something you already supposedly committed the crime.

Youre still missing my point. ;)

My intention was not to draw a direct parallel. My intention was to highlight the way of thinking that you demonstrated, and why its retarded. Just because youre guilty of something doesnt give them the right to unfairly catch you in the act of it.

[supraghost]

i dont see how it would work anyway. if he beats you, just say you werent racing. if you beat him, your obviously faster anyway so how is he gonna pull you over


on the other hand, i saw an undercover minivan that pulled someone over in maryland last weekend. now that is what i call stealthy

[supraghost]

Originally Posted by 420sx

Just because youre guilty of something doesnt give them the right to unfairly catch you in the act of it.

ummm....