Sign this petition keeping Government control OUT of healthcare

[OutlawzPrez]

Originally Posted by Z31Fanatic

Here we go, your new fascist government are using union thugs to confront the pissed off people at a Tampa town hall meeting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kxaGfClPws

We are the silent majority no more. Ordinary people standing up for what is right! People are getting fed up with all this nonsense & wrekless spending. Our founding fathers had principles for small gov't NOT big gov't.

[OutlawzPrez]

THIS JUST IN...

Obama's personal physician for 20 years is against his health care plan.

Watch Huckabee tonight on Fox News.

[Z31Fanatic]

Lol, His doctor said that since they first introduced the plan but you never heard it on the news.

Also, a lot of people bitched about Bush's spending and now the dems do the same thing.

550 million $ for new planes for the congress http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124960404730212955.html

[Z31Fanatic]

Here an update on the great universal healthcare that France uses

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124958049241511735.html

Also, the western europe is shifting to the right. The conservatives won the european elections which were held 2 months ago.
People are tired of paying huge taxes and the high unemployement and all the benefits that the lazy bums and immigrants get from the government.

[bastid]

Originally Posted by TrboChicsRock

If you think that working hard is the sure-fire way of having great health insurance, then you don't get out much. There are plenty of people out there, including myself, who pay a lot for health insurance that won't cover even half of their medical bills. I'm currently sitting on $7k in bills that my insurance won't cover and I don't even have any serious medical problems. That doesn't even include the bill I currently have to pay for my premium that is due right now that I have a hard time paying since they have a hard time paying my current claims.

I think the issue you are getting at is health insurance coverage reform. I agree with the notion that insurance companies should be very clear about what is and is not covered based on the premiums that you pay.

I can go to Independence Blue Cross and see exactly what coverage I have and how much I'm expected to pay. If I don't like it, I can up my coverage just like I can up my coverage on my car insurance. I believe I'm paying just shy of $150/mo for medical, non-cosmetic dental, and optical. I get routine packets of information regarding coverage changes. It's pretty transparent. If I ever feel like there's something wrong with my plan, I can opt out and look elsewhere for insurance. My employer offers a few different plans. I go for routine physicals and occasionally to a specialist if need be (fractured my thumb 2 winters ago while snowboarding). I've paid approximately $28 out of pocket in 5 years on top of my premiums, and I'm very happy with my insurance (as is everyone else who I work with and know).

Originally Posted by TrboChicsRock

I work just as hard, if not harder than everyone on this forum. I work full time while taking 18 credits a semester and maintaining a 4.0 GPA all at the same time. So you're looking at 15 hour long days only to come home and do homework/study.

Nice work. I was in the same boat when I was in school (plus summer classes to boot!). Hopefully it'll provide you a nice leg up once it's all said and done :D

Originally Posted by TrboChicsRock

There is a legitamite need to a better health insurance system and all everyone has done in here is complain. I don't see anyone coming up with any better ideas.

1. Tort reform. This is an absolute MUST so physicians don't have to play the "cover your ass" game and over-treat out of fear. This reduces costs of insurance companies that can be used to offer a wider spectrum of care to those who need it and more affordable plans to those who don't have one.

2. More patient responsibility. Increase deductibles so that "frequent flier" hypochondriac patients do not abuse the system because they have a $10 copay and can see as many doctors as they please. You increase the deductibles as you cheapen the health-plans to even $100-250, and you will find that the throughput of patients will primarily be the sick and not the abusers.

3. Crack down hard on Medicare/Medicaid Fraud. It's costing our country $35 BILLION annually.

4. Provide interest free student loans to those wishing to pursue medicine. Incentivize people to want to become physicians again so that we don't reach a shortage of 100,000+ primary care physicians by 2020 as predicted. You can't add 40 million people to an already overworked system. It's like trying to shoot more water through the same diameter hose. There's only so much you can do in a limited amount of time without sacrificing quality of care.

There's a start...

Originally Posted by TrboChicsRock

You know, I don't use any of my local fire departments, maybe I should petition to have them stop using my tax dollars to pay firemen and provide them with equipment.

I see your point here, however I believe it's somewhat apples to oranges. In my opinion, a more similar analogy is that I would be unwilling to pay for fire services to put out fires in households who did not pay for the service where the tenants were leaving lit cigarettes around the house with the gas turned on high. Patients in this country are just as negligent in the increasing costs of healthcare as insurers. I will NOT pay for someone else's laziness or unwillingness to take care of themselves.

Originally Posted by TrboChicsRock

The biggest reason I've seen against this is that people don't want their tax dollars to go towards something they won't use.

If I got something out of the government plan and was actually enrolled, I don't think I would mind paying for it. I do mind paying for a plan that I never have any intention of enrolling in, and therefore never see any benefit from it.

Originally Posted by TrboChicsRock

But I can guarantee that the amount of money that you guys pay in taxes cover nowhere near your percentage of the bills the goverment has to pay for things you use: road construction, education, fire departments, police departments, military, social security, medical research, the list goes on.

Many of your examples are largely budgeted and funded on the state state and local level, of which are generally taxed on a flat rate (which I agree with). A very small percent of federal tax dollars are allocated for transportation, law enforcement, etc.

http://centeronbudget.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=1258
http://www.fcnl.org/pdfs/taxDay08.pdf

[Proven]

Originally Posted by TrboChicsRock

If you think that working hard is the sure-fire way of having great health insurance, then you don't get out much. There are plenty of people out there, including myself, who pay a lot for health insurance that won't cover even half of their medical bills. I'm currently sitting on $7k in bills that my insurance won't cover and I don't even have any serious medical problems. That doesn't even include the bill I currently have to pay for my premium that is due right now that I have a hard time paying since they have a hard time paying my current claims.

I work just as hard, if not harder than everyone on this forum. I work full time while taking 18 credits a semester and maintaining a 4.0 GPA all at the same time. So you're looking at 15 hour long days only to come home and do homework/study. So obviously, working hard does not equal good health insurance coverage. And as far as being healthy? Well, I'm far from being fat, I've never smoked or done a single drug in my entire life and I eat well and exercise. I don't think it gets much better than that.

There is a legitamite need to a better health insurance system and all everyone has done in here is complain. I don't see anyone coming up with any better ideas.



You know, I don't use any of my local fire departments, maybe I should petition to have them stop using my tax dollars to pay firemen and provide them with equipment.

The biggest reason I've seen against this is that people don't want their tax dollars to go towards something they won't use. But I can guarantee that the amount of money that you guys pay in taxes cover nowhere near your percentage of the bills the goverment has to pay for things you use: road construction, education, fire departments, police departments, military, social security, medical research, the list goes on.

Trust me, there are A LOT of things that I don't agree with that our government does. This definitely isn't one of them.

Awesome read, and people like you are exactly why Obama wants to do this. Unfortunately the guy who does drugs, doesn’t pay child support, does nothing but cause trouble will also benefit BUT the good it will do out weights the negative.

[bastid]

Originally Posted by Proven

...the good it will do out weights the negative.

Source please. Hard numbers, preferably.

[Proven]

Originally Posted by OutlawzPrez

I don't want the gov't taxing me for this. Healthy people who take care of themselves will have to pay for the burden of those who smoke, are obese, etc. So even If I decide to get my own healthcare they are still going to take money out of my paycheck for this universal healthcare. "Does that sound fair?"

Who knows, eventually I may get tired of paying for both & just settle for the lower quality coverage to save money since I'll be taxed anyway & get fined $2500 yearly if I don't have any. If the gov't only taxed people who enrolls in this program then I wouldn't oppose it as much. "Free" health care isn't really free since we must pay for it with taxes; expenses for health care would have to be paid for with higher taxes or spending cuts in other areas such as defense, education, etc.

... Your opinions?

If you have a current health insurance plan your already paying extra for people who smoke or are obese.

I do think you'll end up switching, and you wont be disappointed.. If you are, then start a petition to stop it. If everything goes to hell because of this bill like you think I'll be backing you myself. Till then let change happen.

[Proven]

Originally Posted by bastid

Source please. Hard numbers, preferably.

Haha easy now.. The only source I have is that I feel there are more good people in this world then bad.

[bastid]

Originally Posted by Proven

Haha easy now.. The only source I have is that I feel there are more good people in this world then bad.

Well then. We are doomed

[Proven]

Originally Posted by Z31Fanatic

Here an update on the great universal healthcare that France uses

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124958049241511735.html

Also, the western europe is shifting to the right. The conservatives won the european elections which were held 2 months ago.
People are tired of paying huge taxes and the high unemployement and all the benefits that the lazy bums and immigrants get from the government.

Don't move to France or Europe then..

Without tax’es our country would look like ****, smell like ****, have no police, fire, etc etc. If Unemployment didn't exists the lower class will be increasing as the unemployed middle class cant pay their bills and have trouble finding another job. This in turn will raise your bills because % rates on credit cards and mortgages will start rising to make up for it. A larger lower class also means less people able to purchase goods, which means less business for business owners, which means more lay offs and the cycle continues.

"pay alittle now, or alot later"

[poolmike]

Originally Posted by Z31Fanatic

Lol, His doctor said that since they first introduced the plan but you never heard it on the news.

Also, a lot of people bitched about Bush's spending and now the dems do the same thing.

550 million $ for new planes for the congress http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124960404730212955.html

Classic. Look, we got 4 more years of Bush anyway. All I can hope for is that those planes get loaded with politicians, then crash.


So, for sheets and giggles I applied for health insurance today. For myself and my wife, I am 35 with health issues, she is 37 and healthy....I can get a decent plan for $400/month. Not bad. Almost makes me want to have it. Screw it, I'll let someone else pay my way.

[poolmike]

Originally Posted by Proven

Don't move to France or Europe then..

Without tax’es our country would look like ****, smell like ****, have no police, fire, etc etc. If Unemployment didn't exists the lower class will be increasing as the unemployed middle class cant pay their bills and have trouble finding another job. This in turn will raise your bills because % rates on credit cards and mortgages will start rising to make up for it. A larger lower class also means less people able to purchase goods, which means less business for business owners, which means more lay offs and the cycle continues.

"pay alittle now, or alot later"

Actually, without taxes...government would be forced to shrink and get out of the way for businesses to thrive, and the private sector would then take care of the country like it should. If unemployment didn't exist, I would never hear a fresh pink slip recipient say great things like 'oh, I'll just collect and take the summer off. I'll find a job this winter'. Look at it from all sides. As an employer, I am forced to pay into it for myself, yet I can never collect it, even when business is slow.

[Z31Fanatic]

Originally Posted by Proven

Don't move to France or Europe then..

Without tax’es our country would look like ****, smell like ****, have no police, fire, etc etc. If Unemployment didn't exists the lower class will be increasing as the unemployed middle class cant pay their bills and have trouble finding another job. This in turn will raise your bills because % rates on credit cards and mortgages will start rising to make up for it. A larger lower class also means less people able to purchase goods, which means less business for business owners, which means more lay offs and the cycle continues.

"pay alittle now, or alot later"

I wish I could understand what you are saying here.

You are not a union guy, are you?

[Z31Fanatic]

Originally Posted by poolmike

Classic. Look, we got 4 more years of Bush anyway. All I can hope for is that those planes get loaded with politicians, then crash.


So, for sheets and giggles I applied for health insurance today. For myself and my wife, I am 35 with health issues, she is 37 and healthy....I can get a decent plan for $400/month. Not bad. Almost makes me want to have it. Screw it, I'll let someone else pay my way.

Proven is volunteering to pay your bill since you don't want to

[OutlawzPrez]

Originally Posted by Proven

If you have a current health insurance plan your already paying extra for people who smoke or are obese.

I do think you'll end up switching, and you wont be disappointed.. If you are, then start a petition to stop it. If everything goes to hell because of this bill like you think I'll be backing you myself. Till then let change happen.

Well if this passes I'll be paying double, "One for my private & another for gov't run health insurance". Now the gov't wants to put a federal TAX on foods that make you fat, sweets & etc for one way to help pay for this debt that our children & our grandchildren will end up paying for. Millions Will Lose Their Current Insurance. Period. President Obama wants Americans to believe they can keep their insurance if they like, but research from the government, private research firms, and think tanks show this is not the case. Proposed economic incentives, plus a government-run health plan like the one proposed in the House bill, would cause 88.1 million people to see their current employer-sponsored health plan disappear.

[Proven]

Originally Posted by OutlawzPrez

Now the gov't wants to put a federal TAX on foods that make you fat, sweets & etc for one way to help pay for this debt.

Glad you mentioned this. Yes, Obama said one of the ways to help pay for the plan is to tax sugary drinks, fast food, etc.

I THINK THAT IS A GREAT FRIGGING IDEA!!!!! People will eat less sh** and be more healthy. Yeah, I drink some soda here and there, yeah I treat myself to Wendy’s once in awhile. If I want to continue to eat poorly I should have to pay more into the plan, not those that eat healthy. Wasn’t one of your issues that you didn’t feel you had to pay for people who eat poorly (obese)? Well Obama came up with a solution to make those people pay more into the plan then the next guy. Some how, you think its a bad thing.

[Proven]

Originally Posted by OutlawzPrez

Well if this passes I'll be paying double, "One for my private & another for gov't run health insurance". Now the gov't wants to put a federal TAX on foods that make you fat, sweets & etc for one way to help pay for this debt that our children & our grandchildren will end up paying for. Millions Will Lose Their Current Insurance. Period. President Obama wants Americans to believe they can keep their insurance if they like, but research from the government, private research firms, and think tanks show this is not the case. Proposed economic incentives, plus a government-run health plan like the one proposed in the House bill, would cause 88.1 million people to see their current employer-sponsored health plan disappear.

If our grandchildren will be paying for this so will Obama's and every single other person for the bill.

You'll only be paying double if you don't go with the new plan, your correct. So why not go with the new plan and see how it is before figuring its going to be terrible? and starting a petition? I can understand being forced to take a new plan sucks... But, don't let "not being able to choose" cloud your judgment and think the new coverage will suck..

88.1 million people will be switching to the gov. plan, not loosing coverage.

[OutlawzPrez]

Originally Posted by Proven

If our grandchildren will be paying for this so will Obama's and every single other person for the bill.

You'll only be paying double if you don't go with the new plan, your correct. So why not go with the new plan and see how it is before figuring its going to be terrible? and starting a petition? I can understand being forced to take a new plan sucks... But, don't let "not being able to choose" cloud your judgment and think the new coverage will suck..

88.1 million people will be switching to the gov. plan, not loosing coverage.

I've seen the facts of both sides & that is why I AM FOR A REFORM, but against the Obama admins plan. Its common sense. Do you want to pay $200 for my medical insurance this month? Yes or No - Simple answer.

[poolmike]

Originally Posted by Proven

If our grandchildren will be paying for this so will Obama's and every single other person for the bill.

You'll only be paying double if you don't go with the new plan, your correct. So why not go with the new plan and see how it is before figuring its going to be terrible? and starting a petition? I can understand being forced to take a new plan sucks... But, don't let "not being able to choose" cloud your judgment and think the new coverage will suck..

88.1 million people will be switching to the gov. plan, not loosing coverage.

What about folks like myself? I choose to NOT have coverage and pay my own way. Now I will be stripped of one more liberty and be forced into paying for something I do not want or need, not to mention I will have to pay for folks that don't want to provide for themselves. So much for personal responsibility. Kick freedom to the curb for those who are not motivated enough to provide for themselves. You people are disgusting.