C5Z... now with headers... post 410

[Antonio]

I can help you with the detail bud if you wanna try it. I'll bring the buffer and what not and we'll see what happens. Only thing is I'm not sure how soon I'd be able to get out there

[one8turbo]

Originally Posted by ITSTOCK

Fair enough. even if I don't understand your logic. A LOT of people sell their cars after minor incidences because they start realizing everything "wrong" with the car, even though they aren't usually noticeable to others. After looking at all of the pictures closely in this thread, and your critique of the car, I don't personally think that you'll ever be happy with the car again (I've been through it before), so I suggest you sell it and move on. But first, at least take their advice and get paint correction done on the entire car. The new owner will appreciate it even if you don't.

Ive been keeping up with this thread but i havent posted yet. I think what was said above is something you need to realize. Ill definitely say they could have done a better job on the car but no matter what you WILL still notice flaws when you have body work like that done. I would say 9/10 times if a car has paint work done any one who knows what to look for will be able to find what was painted pretty easily. If it really bothers you that much, get the problems they are willing to fix fixed, get the car buffed, and sell it. In all honesty youll walk out to it every day and be pissed off about the work that was done to it. Ive also been there and its very annoying. Ive sold cars for similar reasons.

[AWD GS]

i agree the paint issue is the biggest problem. there is no way to 100% match the paint especially for paint that is 10 years old and faded to the sun. keep in mind also that paint on different materials (ie metal body to plastic bumpers) will not match either. on brand new cars, the bumpers do not match the body 100%. its hard to tell because its all from the same batch of paint but its just the materials its being painted on.

looking at the pictures i think they could have done a better job blending but that doesnt mean the right side of the car is going to match the left side.

[jpalamar]

Took my car to a detailer last night. Was advised there is nothing they can do to make the paint match.

Got a call from my adjuster on my way home. He told me he was gonna cover the damamge that was missed and to repair the rear 1/4.

The shop wants me to drop the car off again so they can repair the overpray and some of the issues. Nothing in detail was discussed though. I honestly don't see any reason to being that the paint doesn't match anyway.

Set an appointment at County Corvette in WC for Saturday @ 10am to look at the repairs and give me an estimate on how much to fix it properly. Will give me a reason to head over to DE to get some good wines and a pizza at Grottos.

[cmr076]

Originally Posted by jpalamar

Took my car to a detailer last night. Was advised there is nothing they can do to make the paint match.

Got a call from my adjuster on my way home. He told me he was gonna cover the damamge that was missed and to repair the rear 1/4.

The shop wants me to drop the car off again so they can repair the overpray and some of the issues. Nothing in detail was discussed though. I honestly don't see any reason to being that the paint doesn't match anyway.

Set an appointment at County Corvette in WC for Saturday @ 10am to look at the repairs and give me an estimate on how much to fix it properly. Will give me a reason to head over to DE to get some good wines and a pizza at Grottos.

county vette is next door to oakes, may be worth setting up an appt with him to talk about a paint correction... he has worked on some cars for me and made look new when other detailers were saying the car was beyond repair (the back wheels on my mini were "destroyed" from a brake pad falling apart, the metal on the pad backing fused to the wheel... the other detailers i took it to said i needed new wheels, nick made them look brand new!)

see the first 4 pics here: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1283771

[92awdtsi]

nothing against anyones paint correction skills, but if the color is "that" far off. There is literally nothing anyone can do about fixing that. When wet sanding and buffing you only take a very slim layer of clear coat off (sanding flat) and then buff back to a shine. Thus "reanimating" the shine. The only way to fix a color difference is with the actual mixture of the basecoat itself. Most colors (basecoats) will have anywhere from 3-10 variants of the same color/paint code. It all depends on the person mixing the tints to get that right and even the best can't get everything perfect. Just my .02

[jpalamar]

Here are some new shots from today. You can really see the new body work contracting with the origional color.

Just and FYI... the whole side that was painted is the same shade as the bumper. None if it matches the rest of the car. Figured you guys that are saying bumpers don't always match but neither does the rest.

[mcperson2k]

Wow, yeah, that definitely looks awful. All the people going against you about color matching were starting to sway my mind, but that definitely is ****. Who ever gave you the keys to drive that home has some balls.

[one8turbo]

okay okay, i will say that theres NO WAY that should be off that much. 10 year old clear or not it should be closer than that.

[AWD GS]

i agree. guaranteed its not going to be 100% match but that is WAY off. i would demand a repaint. I had the same thing happen to my rear bumper where it was completely different white. the shop looked at it and agreed and at least they paid out of pocket to respray the bumper.

[ITSTOCK]

It looks like they used the wrong color code in that picture.

You should have posted that in the beginning and there would be no second guessing! That's NOT right...obviously.

Has your car ever been repainted before this? Actually, your untouched by them car looks like the right shade, millennium. And the new color looks like the newer velocity. It is just hard to tell though with that crappy picture.

[VETTE_50_TH]

Totaled.

These pics suck too. You need proper lighting to show how bad it actually is. Also, i find it moderately humorous you park your car in a dirt patch and complain so much about the littlest things. LOL

[schaffer]

so whole repaint on the shop?

[rocknrace03]

it looks like they just mixed the color code and didnt enter the vin or something. for every color a manufacturer sprays. there are like 15 variances based on when the car was actually made ( what month) should have sprayed a color test panel and gotten it closer. always rush rush rush these days....

[EklipzGSXkid]

All they needed to do was use a dupont camera to take a picture of the actual paint on the car, Which would bring up a code for the exact color on what ever panel they used the camera on..... Would probably be different then the original paint code mixture anyways due to the paint being older.

[DC2.2GSR]

Originally Posted by rocknrace03

it looks like they just mixed the color code and didnt enter the vin or something. for every color a manufacturer sprays. there are like 15 variances based on when the car was actually made ( what month) should have sprayed a color test panel and gotten it closer. always rush rush rush these days....

Paint variants are not noted by the VIN. On newer cars the VIN can be coded to show the original color, but not always. Even so, the VIN tells nothing specific about the paint code variations. For that, you reference color chips.

The paint manufacturer supplies the shop with color variation chips that are used for reference. Not all colors have available variations and sometimes there are no color chips available. Only a handful I've ever encountered have as many as 15 variants, the most common being GM's WA5111 White because it's the most common and is used on just about every GM vehicle in modern history.

What's most common is 2-4 variants. Most of the time it's an obvious choice but sometimes there is no clear match. That's when spray-outs are made. Other than when there's an extremely close set of variants and no clear correct choice, there's rarely a need to make a spray-out because the colors just match.

Originally Posted by EklipzGSXkid

All they needed to do was use a dupont camera to take a picture of the actual paint on the car, Which would bring up a code for the exact color on what ever panel they used the camera on..... Would probably be different then the original paint code mixture anyways due to the paint being older.

It's a PPG shop, not Dupont. There is no camera.

The color eye cameras that are available from the various paint manufacturers only compare to known colors and pick close matches. It's a tool for lazy people who can't be bothered to open a trunk or hood or look in the door jamb or glove box for a paint code. The camera doesn't even guarantee a match, only gets you in the ballpark. The only time it's even necessary is when the paint code is missing from the car and when a quick phone call to a dealer can't decode the VIN to tell you the paint code.

SOP is to find the code, type it in the computer, pick the correct vehicle or sub-brand, then find the note about the location of the color in the chip decks. You find the right deck, flip through until you find the color and you're set. When you're referencing color codes and looking through a color chip deck that you can walk right over and hold up against the panel, there's no need for a color eye. The only time they ever use a paint supplier with a color eye camera is when it's an antique color with no code, a custom mixed color that someone else did, or when it's a random object that a customer brings in and wants something color matched to.

And yes, I know you've done paint work before. I quoted you but I'm explaining for the people who don't understand the process.

__________________________


At this point, I couldn't care any less about your interaction with the shop or your insurance company. I'm simply pointing out the facts and correcting some incredible misinformation, presumptions and wildly high expectations that you and people in this thread are posting.

I see the pictures and I see that the bumper is different than the hood, etc. but I think that "want" is overshadowing the facts of collision repair and a severe misunderstanding of modern body shop techniques/methods is contributing to it. There's a slight possibility that they put color over the whole bumper, but only if you asked them to repair more damage that wasn't on the estimate. According to the estimate that you posted, the only repair work that was done is to the right side.

As I've said already, unless there was damage to the left (driver's) side of the bumper, there was absolutely no color applied to that side. That's not how body shops repair bumpers, nothing gets painted as a whole panel unless it needs to be, and that's why the call it a blend. New basecoat color goes over the repair area only and there is no heavy overspray and there is no color changing to the opposite side during that process. The only thing to touch the opposite side of the repaired bumper is new clear, meaning that the mismatch is your original paint... your original paint that never matched and might possibly now have it's difference magnified by fresh, new clear coat.

Paint matching and color blending is not a precise science once you take the color off the scale where it's mixed by weight using a computer. It's all about the techniques used to hide the fact that there was work done. Once the blends are done using the basecoat, clear goes on and that's that. There's no funny business that goes on with the clear. It's simply a layer of clear urethane that goes on in two+ coats. Extra clear bends light in different ways and can sometimes alter the appearance of the blend the same way a layer of water does.

There seems to be this unfounded expectation that "pre-accident condition" means that you won't ever be able to tell that the car was worked on or that it will be utterly flawless and that's not the case at all. Regardless of what opinion you have of your 10+ year old car, the paint was not perfect. In good shape and waxed? Yeah, probably. Perfect? Not even close. New clear coat is perfect, and shown next to an old panel, there will be a difference.

I wonder what you'd say if the car was black? You've never seen fresh paint next to older paint on a black car I bet. Well I'll tell you it looks terrible. No matter how well taken care of, the old paint to new paint looks ridiculous. It's slightly faded and very slightly hazy compared to flawless gloss piano black that looks a mile deep. Does that mean that the shop did something wrong? No, in fact it means that they made a proper repair and disregarded the old sh*tty paint. The alternative would be to spend hours running a buffer and washing the car hundreds of times to truly match the old paint. However, if they did that then people would complain that it's not good paint work.

[Antonio]

silly question. If the 10 year old paint is sun faded compared to new paint, how come the old paint is darker than the new paint? not trying to stir anything, it's a serious question

[jpalamar]

My appointment with County Corvette went great. The shop tour was awesome.

I showed them the car and they are going to give me a written estimate on how much to fix in a few days.

They pointed out several spots that had dirt on it when sprayed that I didn't even see, were shocked the door handle and front bumper cover weren't painted, and said the color doesn't match likely because the basecoat is to thin.

Once I have this and the letter from the detail shop I'll talk to Excel again.

[DC2.2GSR]

Originally Posted by Antonio

silly question. If the 10 year old paint is sun faded compared to new paint, how come the old paint is darker than the new paint? not trying to stir anything, it's a serious question

Dark = new, light = old and faded isn't always the way it goes. There's no telling what kinds of materials were used on the car and what effect they may have had on the color. For all anyone knows the front bumper could have been repaired previously or have been replaced altogether. If there were inferior materials used it could have an effect on the color. It's possible that the bumper was previously painted with a different variant. Either way, the color match of the front bumper is most likely a pre-existing condition since according to his estimate there was no basecoat color on the left side of the bumper whatsoever, yet it still appears light.

What the other shop told him is true, that lighter color usually means not enough color. Do darken and get full coverage, you apply more coats. However, that doesn't apply to an area that received no new color and only clear, as is 99% probable in the case of his front bumper that only had color on the right side. If there was too little color over the repair areas it would appear severely off, and would be seen as a very light halo around the repair where the basecoat wasn't applied heavy enough to cover the light sealer. It's an easy mistake to make with light colors, but it's equally easy to shine the sun gun on the panel to make sure you have coverage. Repeating myself for the hundredth time just for absolute clarity, this wouldn't appear as lightness over the entire bumper because there isn't sealer and base over the whole thing, so in that respect the corvette shop would be completely wrong.

[Honduh]

I love this thread. I bet if this happened to someone else palamar would be in their thread calling them an idiot for thinking the new paint should match the old sun faded paint.