NJ's Chat Thwead: The Most Rad People, From the Least Rad State

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by Ciotti

Even a one armed instructor

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but can't the autocross instructors out drive pretty much everyone that shows up there?

[sean3]

Originally Posted by Ciotti

I made this same mistake and couldn't bring myself to pay for stock parts again that I had thrown away and the labor to have them installed and other mods cut off the car to fit into a class where I could be competitive so I've always been stuck in a class where I don't really belong which is SUPER frustrating.

What class do you belong in?

[Ciotti]

Originally Posted by thefro526

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but can't the autocross instructors out drive pretty much everyone that shows up there?

Not at all, our region has at least 30 drivers that in their own cars can and do run faster than we do when we instruct them. For a complete noob, after a full season of events you will usually be able to run dead on with what the instructors can when they jump in your car but we've certainly had drivers come in that are faster than us because they are so familiar with their car. I will admit that goes out the window if the instructor has a similar car or has driven your car a bunch of times which is what happens when I drive Sean's Mach 1 because it's setup is almost exactly the same as my Cobra.

[Ciotti]

Originally Posted by sean3

What class do you belong in?

If I had autocrossed before doing the springs I would have never done them or subs and stuck in FS for a while and then progressed to STX or STU where I would now have a fighting chance at PAX.



EDIT: Oops Double Penetration ERRRRRRR Double Post...

[sean3]

Originally Posted by Ciotti

If I had autocrossed before doing the springs I would have never done them or subs and stuck in FS for a while and then progressed to STX or STU where I would now have a fighting chance at PAX.



EDIT: Oops Double Penetration ERRRRRRR Double Post...

WRX>slowbra in STX/U

[Ciotti]

Originally Posted by sean3

Fastbra>WRX>slowmach in STX/U

Fixed it

[sean3]

Andre's WRX has beaten the "fastbra" twice this season...

[boostinsidewayz]

It's not fair when you set the course up yourself lol. I'm gonna run stx this weekend and see how it goes.

[Antonio]

ciotti - quick question. got a z06. was running SS class. now have suspension as well as engine mods. what class does that move me into? took a quick glance thru the rule book but couldn't come up with a definite answer. thanks!

[sean3]

Originally Posted by antonio

ciotti - quick question. Got a z06. Was running ss class. Now have suspension as well as engine mods. What class does that move me into? Took a quick glance thru the rule book but couldn't come up with a definite answer. Thanks!

ssm..

[got_tint?]

Got a wee bit bored and decided to type this - http://www.tristatetuners.com/forum/....php?p=1757662

[boostinsidewayz]

Originally Posted by thefro526

Look at that mustang though, and then look at what I drive. Nothing I have is fast enough to really accelerate quickly in such a small area.



I've considered driving autocross, and it's not really a balls thing as much as a time and money thing. Though, now that I have a helmet, I should come out and drive.

Btw, auto-crossing my BMW would be stupid at best. E46 subframes are known to have issues which I believe mine does from when I crashed it in the winter. I'm not trying to do anymore damage to a car that I owe more than 12-13k on.



I wasn't talking about Jetro.

It shows how much you know. I haven't slid Jetro since last year, it's not my spot to mess up.

I was talking about sliding street turns which is how I crashed the BMW over the winter.



Have you never read anything I've recently written about my drifting?

I make it blatantly obvious that I still suck. I don't have enough real seat time to have any legitimate experience.

There's no doubt in my mind that an instructor can out drive me in my own car, I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here.

I'm not entirely sure why you wrote the above post in such a malicious tone either. I was stating my opinions on autocross, and though I may have used my usual matter-of-fact tone, they're still opinions.

"Autocross is awesome" is an opinion.

For the record, I Suck at Drifting, and I also Suck at Driving.

Also, how about we let this argument die now, because I'd rather not see this get anymore personal than you've already made it.

cars with less power, run in different classes and are most of the time lighter(240sx), or handle better(bmw). everything needs to be put in perspective.

if your excuse before was not having a helmet, thats very weak at best.

so you're telling me that "the ultimate driving machine" can handle taking some turns at under 40mph? again pretty weak. also take your car back and get the recall done.

i know you havent been at jetro, and i also know some of your other spots. crashing the bmw sucks, but imo its more of a reason to come to autocross, less easy to mess up a car.

no i havent read anything about your drifting

nothing was intended to be to personal(its just the internet), your posts were just the first few that i hadn't read.

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by boostinsidewayz

cars with less power, run in different classes and are most of the time lighter(240sx), or handle better(bmw). everything needs to be put in perspective.

if your excuse before was not having a helmet, thats very weak at best.

so you're telling me that "the ultimate driving machine" can handle taking some turns at under 40mph? again pretty weak. also take your car back and get the recall done.

i know you havent been at jetro, and i also know some of your other spots. crashing the bmw sucks, but imo its more of a reason to come to autocross, less easy to mess up a car.

no i havent read anything about your drifting

nothing was intended to be to personal(its just the internet), your posts were just the first few that i hadn't read.

I understood the concept of having the car in an appropriate class, though if I tried to Autocross my 240 I would be put in some horribly difficult class because of the coil-overs.

And no, having a helmet wasn't my excuse before, it was mainly money, though part of it was not having a Snell approved helmet.

I never refereed to my car as an "Ultimate Driving Machine". I'm quite sure it can handle turns at 40 mph, but I'm not trying to put unnecessary stress on my daily driver, especially when I know that it may already have issues that aren't resolved. Also, it's not a recall, or at least not so simply, it's a class action lawsuit, which means that if I wanted to use it to it's full potential I would have to get involved in it, and I believe my time has already come and past.

If you know I haven't been to Jetro then why reference it in your post? As for my other spot, the only one you know of is Florence, and I've only been back there once in the past 6 months, and probably won't be going back again. While autocross may be a less easy way to mess up a car, it doesn't seem fun to me.

In the same way that many of you do not think drifting is fun I do not feel that autocross would be fun for me. I'm not the kind of person that would enjoy driving in such a small technical course, and I would probably get frustrated a few minutes in and then not want to do it and realize that I wasted money to drive it.

As far as being personal or impersonal, it just seems that your post above was more of an attack than a response. Posts like that make me stop wanting to even try to have an intelligent conversation, because all I feel like I end up doing is explaining why I do what I do.

Everyone here is titled to their own opinion and opinions should not be stated as if they were factual information. This forum is for the open sharing of ideas, not the constant bashing of everyone else's. I know I may have a strong persona on the internet, and I know I may take a matter-of-fact tone when I speak, but it's because I'm confident in what I'm talking about.

This whole thing comes from my prior views on autocross. I do not feel that autocross is fun. I do not think that autocross is this awesome form of motor sport. I feel that autocross is for people who can't afford or who cannot go to a real track. I feel that spending money to do something I can do for free is not a worth while endeavor for me.

Now that I prefaced my ideas with "I feel" or "I do not think" can you guys please respect them and debate with me in a mature fashion.

I'm so tired of posting something up and instantly having people say, that's gay, or that's stupid, or what have you. It's getting far too repetitive. I don't even feel like I can post up anything I like in this chat thread without being bashed because it's not what the people in this thread like. Like sure, it's cool and all to mess around on the internet, but I'm tired of it and it's starting to get a bit hurtful especially the above post, where it's basically saying, "you're and idiot for saying the things you say, you're an idiot for doing what you do, and you're an idiot for not driving autocross."

[sean3]

Obviously you never referred to your car as "the ultimate driving machine", but that's what BMW markets their vehicles as.

Not having a helmet was never an excuse because we have loaners for free.

You wouldn't be in a "horribly difficult class" because of coilovers. You could run in D street prepared (man I really am the rule book guy...). Well on second thought that class has ultimate driving machines on race tires

[Antonio]

Originally Posted by sean3

Obviously you never referred to your car as "the ultimate driving machine", but that's what BMW markets their vehicles as.

Not having a helmet was never an excuse because we have loaners for free.

You wouldn't be in a "horribly difficult class" because of coilovers. You could run in D street prepared (man I really am the rule book guy...). Well on second thought that class has ultimate driving machines on race tires

could be worse. my previous car was ASP, I was endlessly getting frustrated in that class. Although it does push you to improve and you can watch what others are doing and learn from them.

[fitftw]

So I'm playing this game called Grandia that I downloaded from the PSOne collection on PSN. Came across this scene and was like :O

Keep in mind, the game was released in 1999.



Coincidence?

[boostinsidewayz]

im not one to tell you how to spend money, but i'm sure you've wasted 50 on worse things. i feel that if i had 50 to spend, it would be on autocross, not stickers.

sean already touched on the bmw thing. there was a bmw group that came to the sunday meet once and the guy said his 3 series bmw wasn't made for handling

because you act like there are places to go and street drift, i've been to plenty of places and the one you talked about most recently that i heard is one corner. the one where you hit the curb. how is that street drifting? one corner thats like saying that a bend in the road is autocross.

it doesnt seem fun, yet you've never tried it.

i always laughed at the people doing it at atco way back in the day. said the same type of stuff you are saying now. i was all about straight line racing. now i cant wait for the next autocross event.

autocross is a great way to learn how to actually drive your car. i don't want to go out on a real course yet, i dont have the money to waste trashing a car if i screw up. autocross is forgiving. to learn the limits of a car you have to go past them and learn from it. just like in drifting you cant know exactly how much angle you can get until youre right on the edge and spin out. then next time, a little less angle. people that think they can drive hard on the street are mistaken 99% of the time. and if someone is dumb enough to run at 100% on the street, i hope they don't hurt someone else.

you absolutely can not autocross on the street, it isnt possible and thats a fact.

This whole thing comes from my prior views on autocross. I do not feel that autocross is fun. I do not think that autocross is this awesome form of motor sport. I feel that autocross is for people who can't afford or who cannot go to a real track. I feel that spending money to do something I can do for free is not a worth while endeavor for me.

Now that I prefaced my ideas with "I feel" or "I do not think" can you guys please respect them and debate with me in a mature fashion.

I'm so tired of posting something up and instantly having people say, that's gay, or that's stupid, or what have you. It's getting far too repetitive. I don't even feel like I can post up anything I like in this chat thread without being bashed because it's not what the people in this thread like. Like sure, it's cool and all to mess around on the internet, but I'm tired of it and it's starting to get a bit hurtful especially the above post, where it's basically saying, "you're and idiot for saying the things you say, you're an idiot for doing what you do, and you're an idiot for not driving autocross."[/QUOTE]

[Antonio]

so let me get this straight...... You said autocross wouldn't be fun for you......even though you haven't tried it. Whatever, you may have a horribly closed minded view, but a view none the less. What irks me is when you say "people who autocross can't afford a real track, or are too scared"

That statement alone shows me nothing but immaturity and ignorance. I, for one, CAN afford a track, and DO have the balls to do full road course events (redline time attack) Does this make autocrossing inferior or less fun? No. It's a different form of motor sports...plain and simple. People who watch Formula 1 make fun of NASCAR because "they drive in circles". Does that mean that NASCAR is stupid, or any person can get into a stock car and within a day or two, do what they do? Hell no.

So, if I do road courses, why do I bother with autocrosses? Because I take what I learn from each type of racing and apply it to my overall knowledge to make me a better driver, on and off the track. There are elements in an autocross that you can't get in a road course. Road courses are smooth and easily laid out. Autocrosses require you to be more alert and aware of your surroundings, not only because there are no real "boundaries" of the road, but also because the road surface isn't perfect. That's just 1 example off the top of my head.

You can have your views and opinions of autocrossing, but when you begin passing judgement onto others because of what they enjoy doing...well.....that's just a douche thing to do. Again, not being personal to you, hell, I don't really know you. Do I want to fight you, No. Will I shake your hand and say hello if I met you, Yes. Did you put your foot in your mouth and insult a lot of people, Yes you did.

[Ciotti]

Originally Posted by sean3

Andre's WRX has beaten the "fastbra" twice this season...

I've had a ****ty season though you know that, I'm still getting used to not being able to do course walks and having to worry about running everything along with driving.

Originally Posted by Antonio

ciotti - quick question. got a z06. was running SS class. now have suspension as well as engine mods. what class does that move me into? took a quick glance thru the rule book but couldn't come up with a definite answer. thanks!

Originally Posted by sean3

ssm..

Sean, can you find out what parts he has and make sure that ssm is the right class for him?

Originally Posted by Antonio

so let me get this straight...... You said autocross wouldn't be fun for you......even though you haven't tried it. Whatever, you may have a horribly closed minded view, but a view none the less. What irks me is when you say "people who autocross can't afford a real track, or are too scared"

That statement alone shows me nothing but immaturity and ignorance. I, for one, CAN afford a track, and DO have the balls to do full road course events (redline time attack) Does this make autocrossing inferior or less fun? No. It's a different form of motor sports...plain and simple. People who watch Formula 1 make fun of NASCAR because "they drive in circles". Does that mean that NASCAR is stupid, or any person can get into a stock car and within a day or two, do what they do? Hell no.

So, if I do road courses, why do I bother with autocrosses? Because I take what I learn from each type of racing and apply it to my overall knowledge to make me a better driver, on and off the track. There are elements in an autocross that you can't get in a road course. Road courses are smooth and easily laid out. Autocrosses require you to be more alert and aware of your surroundings, not only because there are no real "boundaries" of the road, but also because the road surface isn't perfect. That's just 1 example off the top of my head.

You can have your views and opinions of autocrossing, but when you begin passing judgement onto others because of what they enjoy doing...well.....that's just a douche thing to do. Again, not being personal to you, hell, I don't really know you. Do I want to fight you, No. Will I shake your hand and say hello if I met you, Yes. Did you put your foot in your mouth and insult a lot of people, Yes you did.

VERY well put



And for the record one weekend at a track is at least $1,000 no matter how you slice it ($300 - $400 entrance fee, half a set of tires $300 - 400, full set of brake pads $100, gas, food, etc... another $100) and us heavy high horsepower cars can actually eat up an entire set of tires pushing the cost up another $400. I've been running at autocrosses twice a month every month for 3 years and I've BARELY spent over $1,000 thus far TOTAL so from even just a bang for the buck standpoint I'll autocross every time!

[sean3]

That is true, you got shafted with the whole "run the event" thing

I looked at his build thread and he has a pretty built motor... Unless he wants to run some crazy prepared class, SSM is the only option.

The 300-400 dollar entry fee for a HPDE weekend gets you LOADS more time actually driving compared to an entire season of autocross (which costs 35*8=280+scca membership). You get multiple 20 minute sessions per day vs a whopping ~40 minutes total for a season of autocross assuming you do 8 events and get 8 runs lasting 40 seconds each. Of course with one HPDE you blow all your money at once and only get to drive two days vs waking up dreadfully early 8 times a year. AND with HPDEs you don't have to spend half your day standing in the blazing sun picking up cones.

Without a doubt the consumables cost is MUCH higher (to be expected when you're going over 40mph and getting more track time), but to say you'll go through an entire friggin set of tires or even half over the course of a single HPDE seems like an overestimate. I know there are people on Corral (MFE and 2k2GT off the top of my head) that get multiple events + street driving out of a single set of tires. And it's pretty lame to include "food" as a cost for open track events. I eat regardless of what I'm doing. Food doesn't magically cost more if you're spending the night at a hotel.

Another thing is that autocross is competitive where as HPDEs are not. Real competitive racing on a race track costs magnitudes more than both autox and HPDE. If you want to be competitive at autocross you HAVE to have dedicated wheels and Rcomps (or shaved summer tires if you run ST). If you do autocross "just for fun"... I have no idea how you find fun in losing.

And you haven't done autox twice a month for the past 3 years, even if you don't include the "off" months unless you were doing philly/NNJR events every single month the last 2 years. And how have you barely spent $1000 when you have set of tires that cost nearly $700 on the car right now and a pricey set of DBA rotors and hawk pads, plus entry fees for 3 years?