Track Racing OR AutoX?

[jpalamar]

Mark almost made me poo myself when he took me for a ride in his Mustang last year. He got some skills.

[Elliott18t]

Originally Posted by jpalamar

Mark almost made me poo myself when he took me for a ride in his Mustang last year. He got some skills.

yes he does, I am hoping to get the GTI in there this year. I can pull on him in the street... doubt it in an autox course lol

[Scapegoat]

driving is fun, helping out and standing around is not. perhaps if i went with people instead of myself i'd have had more fun.

if you get competitive then you're there for a solid reason. if you're just going to go... it's dull. I just hate waiting around. I don't mind waiting an hour at a HPDE if i've just been out for 45 minutes though.

[Elliott18t]

yeah, can't imagine it being to fun without someone... unless that is your thing.

[Chris B.]

At SCCA Events, I've noticed that the time passes more quickly if you make it a social event and make new friends easily. I never attended SCCA events regularly enough to know everyone there. I have attended AutoX events put on by other groups regularly and was able to get to know all the other regulars at the event. It was more enjoyable that way.

However, if you attend track days regularly, you also get to know all the regular people who attend those events too.

The main reason I don't do SCCA AutoX any more is it seems that I waste an entire day for four sub 60 second runs and ends up costing me at least $10-$12 for each of those runs due to the total cost of entry fees. The time it takes out of my day to set up the car, do my runs, and do my work assignment seems a lot less well used than my time at a track day where I'm out on the track for 2 to 3.5 hours a day in 20 to 30 minute sessions and I can try many different variations in lines, braking points, etc....

[JB'sLGT]

AutoX is like a car meet with legal racing. You talk to people, check out their cars, they check out yours, you run your car, level up your driver mod, talk some smack. Overall it's a fun day for any car guy. When I used to chase cones I loved watching the cars rip by.

Larger, more populated SCCA regions have larger venues, so you'll get more seat time. North Jersey races at the Meadowlands, South Jersey at a large airfield in Atlantic City, and Philly has multiple large venues including Citizens Bank Park.

[Scapegoat]

Originally Posted by JB'sLGT

AutoX is like a car meet

ah, that explains why i think it's boring

[Elliott18t]

philly had its first event this past sunday at CBP. Definitely one of the larger setups I have seen them do.

[Khellen]

Originally Posted by Scapegoat

ah, that explains why i think it's boring

Frisbee also sucks to play alone. Just a heads up!

[igo4bmx]

Originally Posted by Scapegoat

what people fail to mention about auto cross...

it's boring... it's ****ing boring. you spend the entire day there... that sounds like fun? well, it's not! Unless by fun you mean spending 4-6 hours out in the sun watching other people race for a few minutes at a time while maybe chasing after a cone or 10. All that for maybe 20 minutes of track time.

Maybe if you were going to take it seriously and want to see your name nationally in some autox publication, and you're going to chase after autocross events, it might be worth it then... it might even be fun (or downright tedious). And has Chris mentioned, it's ****ing expensive per minute of track time. in fact, it'd be expensive if it was free. I don't know about you, but i don't want to waste an entire day standing around in the heat doing diddly squat.

don't get me wrong... i've autocrossed both of my cars... to get a feel for them right after i purchased them. am i frank hart? no, i just have a better understanding of my car and how horribly it nose dives into turns.

So you might not be able to hit up an HPDE every weekend, or maybe you can if you've got the monies... but your day will be better spent (2-4 hours driving time!), you'll learn more (if you've got an instructor), and i guarantee you'll have a ton of fun. Oh, and you don't have to worry about anyone else's ****.

racing is expensive, more so if you're serious about it.

do an auto cross and drive your car to the limit of your ability so you know where you stand in a relatively safe venue (just don't kill anyone else) and then hit the tracks.

I will assure you that since you have not done many autox events you most likely have not driven your car to the limits.
Autox is nice because it's cheap, and you get to quickly learn your car and if you're good, you can drive 10/10 in your effort and driving and have a ton of fun. I agree you do wait a long time especially since you have to work at events as well.
One of the best things I did in autox is to 1- ride passenger with someone GOOD in autox and 2- have an instructor drive your car. I thought autox was ok at first, but after a ride along i found out what I COULD do and it made me more interested.
Track (which I do as well) is great- tons of seat time, but alot of wear and tear and possible danger (i.e. car crashes). it is tons of fun as well. I know people who done both, some love track and hate autox , some love autox and hate track.



FWIW - do you guys know how expensive hitting a wall would cost for you?
example - car crash into a wall and you spill oil fluids.
costs- the car, the cleanup and OVERTIME for the employees there, the repair or replacement of the wall
keep in mind this is real costs you will have to pay for in a track event, so when you even insure for track insurance, don't forget in an event of a crash, you pay for the damages to the track and costs to repair!

[Chris B.]

Originally Posted by igo4bmx

FWIW - do you guys know how expensive hitting a wall would cost for you?
example - car crash into a wall and you spill oil fluids.
costs- the car, the cleanup and OVERTIME for the employees there, the repair or replacement of the wall
keep in mind this is real costs you will have to pay for in a track event, so when you even insure for track insurance, don't forget in an event of a crash, you pay for the damages to the track and costs to repair!

Not all tracks bill you when you hit the wall and the cost for cleanup varies depending on if you actually spilled any fluids, how much, and where it was.

Watkins Glen is known for being expensive to crash at. They bill you for the section of the wall and the paint to repaint it. Other tracks don't care as much.

My crash at NJMP where I hit the wall twice didn't cost me a penny as far as clean up and repair costs go. Many tracks don't have the walls close to the track in areas where you are likely to run off, so its not really an issue.

[igo4bmx]

Originally Posted by Chris B.

Not all tracks bill you when you hit the wall and the cost for cleanup varies depending on if you actually spilled any fluids, how much, and where it was.

Watkins Glen is known for being expensive to crash at. They bill you for the section of the wall and the paint to repaint it. Other tracks don't care as much.

My crash at NJMP where I hit the wall twice didn't cost me a penny as far as clean up and repair costs go. Many tracks don't have the walls close to the track in areas where you are likely to run off, so its not really an issue.

strange-
i know an evo guy who crashed at NJMP and was charged over 4 grand from the track.

[Chris B.]

Originally Posted by igo4bmx

strange-
i know an evo guy who crashed at NJMP and was charged over 4 grand from the track.

Was it HPDE or a race? Lets just say the flag station just before turn 1 had to change their underwear after I made contact with the wall there. They had to duck to avoid parts of the car that were flying in their direction.

[oneday]

Cost transference varies from organization to organization. If you at an SCCA sanctioned PDX or race the SCCA's insurance covers track damage and medical (the $4K Evo bill also included EMS fees because the actual bill from the track for clean up and wall damage was not over $4K). NASA offers similar protection for it's participants. Read each club's Terms & Conditions and waiver to find out if you are responsible for damages you cause.

[DJI203]

Originally Posted by Chris B.

In the long run, track days are much cheaper per minute of seat time than most AutoX events. However, it wouldn't hurt to do AutoX too and get good instruction during those autoX events.

For example, track days can be as low as $1.60 per minute of track time just in event fees. A SCCA AutoX is about $10 per minute of seat time just in event fees. When you include wear & tear and track day insurance, track days are still cheaper per minute than most AutoX events. Usually a CRX is an inexpensive car to run at a HPDE.

+1

Per minute track is better value. And during auto-x you end up standing longer on your feet chasing cones than actual driving. I did both but stuck with DE's. And as someone else mentioned the 2 arent even comparable. Track is million times more fun than auto-x. Auto-x is great for car control but there's no better feeling passing a faster car through the turns..

[JB'sLGT]

If all you're concerned about is $ per seat time, then you're missing everything that makes autox great.

Obviously, there is more to racing than how many minutes you spend behind the wheel. If that were not true, why is drag racing so popular amongst pros and amateurs?

[DJI203]

Originally Posted by JB'sLGT

If all you're concerned about is $ per seat time, then you're missing everything that makes autox great.

Obviously, there is more to racing than how many minutes you spend behind the wheel. If that were not true, why is drag racing so popular amongst pros and amateurs?

Nobody is questioning the popularity. The point about $/min is that contrary to the belief that auto-x is cheaper, by the minute it really is not. Clearly for the same fixed dollar you get more events / days with auto-x but just merely offering up another view.

I don't think anyone tracks because of seat time. But between spending a day in a parking lot or hitting up world famous courses like Laguna or VIR, I prefer the latter (and yes I've done both) because I genuinely think it's more fun.

[JB'sLGT]

I'm sitting here doing math and I'm finding that the $ per seat time argument isn't holding up when you look at a full 10 event season of autox vs 10 track day expenses, including entry fees, gas, tires, pads, rotors, insurance (?), and lodging (?).

Using my actual data from last year
# of AutoX events: 5 (due to health and other reasons)
Total time spent driving at events: 42.65 minutes
Entry fees: $175
Fuel cost driving to, from, and at events: $90
Tolls: $40
Tires: $0. on my 3rd season with my Z1s, which I also daily from March to early November, depending on weather trends. Original purchase price $800. plus mount and balance $90.
Pads: $0. installed HPSes 4 years ago and have a third of life left. Original purchase price was $200 for all 4 corners.
Rotors $300. I installed these in February of last year but the originals had 90k miles on them. I hardly consider this an autox expenditure.

Totalling that up, last year I spent $7.15 for every minute spent of actual driving at autoxes.

I'm very interested to hear what you guys are spending per year on all your track days and how many events you do.

[Elliott18t]

how did you not go through a set of tires yet? im guessing because you only did 5 events?

[JB'sLGT]

Originally Posted by Elliott18t

how did you not go through a set of tires yet? im guessing because you only did 5 events?

Depends if you drive or over drive your car. I actually did 6 events last year, 5 with South Jersey and 1 with Philly. In the year prior I did a lot more with South Jersey, North Jersey, and Philly.

The tires are due to be replaced later this season though.