Movie: Sicko

[Broken5hift]

talk about eye opening. The true Michael Moore style movie making. The movie really shines a light on how pathetic not only our healthcare is, but how ****ty our government is. I was arguing with halfhorsepower of this stuff in a recent thread but wtf, i cant really stand by my previous comments after watching the movie. Has anyone else seen it yet? i was wondering if anyone else had a take on this

[K-Rex]

fake post ftl

Edit: In before the lock!

[Broken5hift]

cancer, get it.

[K-Rex]

Originally Posted by Broken5hift

cancer, get it.

What an asinine thing to say. Seriously, think about it. If you have ever know anyone with it cancer, I think you would agree.

However, after the last thread about this, I think you can clearly see where I thought you were being facetious.

[Snoozie]

fake post? i dont get it? i though that the movie just came out.......

[bencollinz]

i thought it was a great documentary.
i've handed it out to everyone i know.

(yes, moore leaked the video to internet)

[Intercooled T]

Originally Posted by bencollinz

i thought it was a great documentary.
i've handed it out to everyone i know.

(yes, moore leaked the video to internet)

That's b/c not many people would pay to actually see it. I think the person above meant 'fake post' in the sense that Broken5hift was only saying it to start a thread war maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I interpreted it lol

[wrx_snobordr]

I haven't seen it and will not watch it most likely because Moore always only shows one side of the issue.

I have seen snippets of it and he doesn't disappoint. He makes it seem like Canada and the UK are far and away much better than the USA and all we would need to do is adopt one of their systems and we would be fine, but its not even close to the truth.

He avoids how in Britian doctors are essentially Gov employees, they make a salary and have no incentive to work harder. They are actually very close to striking, last I heard, because they are very underpaid. Also, the plan is not all inclusive.

Canada, the wait times are insane, they have 25% fewer doctors per capita who make substantially less money, 25% fewer specialized machines per capita and a tax rate that is near double ours. It doesn't cover dental and doesn't cover all fees either, only 70%.

We cannot cut doctors salaries, the union is way to strong for one and two I don't want a disgruntled doctor working on me, I want them as happy as a pig in ****. We coul raise taxes but that would mean we are going towards a socialized system which means the Gov would have to buy out every major carrier to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars.

Other things I have read he failed to mention were social aspects. He mentioned our infant mortality rate, but did he mention we also have the highest birth rate of mothers out of wedlock and mothers who drink/smoke/do drugs/overeat while pregnant in the world? NO! Huge issue.

He mentioned our life expectancy and how it isn't that great. But did he mention how as Americans we work more, sleep less, smoke more, over eat more, have more gang violence and have more drug use, to name a few unfortunate things that we lead or are close to leading the world in that are causes of death?

A one sided movie does not make a documentary. A documentary shows both sides, weighs all the factors and makes an educated, pragmatic solution. I don't even have to watch the movie to know he did none of these things.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by wrx_snobordr

I haven't seen it and will not watch it most likely because Moore always only shows one side of the issue.

I have seen snippets of it and he doesn't disappoint. He makes it seem like Canada and the UK are far and away much better than the USA and all we would need to do is adopt one of their systems and we would be fine, but its not even close to the truth.

He avoids how in Britian doctors are essentially Gov employees, they make a salary and have no incentive to work harder. They are actually very close to striking, last I heard, because they are very underpaid. Also, the plan is not all inclusive.

Canada, the wait times are insane, they have 25% fewer doctors per capita who make substantially less money, 25% fewer specialized machines per capita and a tax rate that is near double ours. It doesn't cover dental and doesn't cover all fees either, only 70%.

We cannot cut doctors salaries, the union is way to strong for one and two I don't want a disgruntled doctor working on me, I want them as happy as a pig in ****. We coul raise taxes but that would mean we are going towards a socialized system which means the Gov would have to buy out every major carrier to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars.

Other things I have read he failed to mention were social aspects. He mentioned our infant mortality rate, but did he mention we also have the highest birth rate of mothers out of wedlock and mothers who drink/smoke/do drugs/overeat while pregnant in the world? NO! Huge issue.

He mentioned our life expectancy and how it isn't that great. But did he mention how as Americans we work more, sleep less, smoke more, over eat more, have more gang violence and have more drug use, to name a few unfortunate things that we lead or are close to leading the world in that are causes of death?

A one sided movie does not make a documentary. A documentary shows both sides, weighs all the factors and makes an educated, pragmatic solution. I don't even have to watch the movie to know he did none of these things.

you pretty much stole my thunder here. excellent work! one other thing id like to add, theres no fda outside of the us. so those drugs may be cheap but who knows wtf is in them or if its even what you are paying for?

[wrx_snobordr]

Originally Posted by Dave

you pretty much stole my thunder here. excellent work! one other thing id like to add, theres no fda outside of the us. so those drugs may be cheap but who knows wtf is in them or if its even what you are paying for?

Ha, sorry dude.

I didn't get into the whole FDA thing because it is complex. But since you mentioned it I guess I will shed a little light for some people. People want us to be able to ship "cheap" drugs in from Canada to help the poor. However, many of those drugs originate from areas of the world that have no FDA, as Dave mentioned, and Canada doesn't test them. So, if we shipped them in, we would have no way of knowing what we are getting short of checking every package. We are a sue happy people, think if the Gov sent poor old Bob Johnson an apparent heart medication and due to a lack of FDA regulation he got a pill that was sort of like Viagra. Well, Bob obviously has a heart problem so getting his blood going could cause a heart attack, LAW SUIT! Also, the remainer of those drugs, that don't come from companies that pirated American company patents and went to a non-UN regulated country to produce them, actually originate in America. they come from companies that produce generics. They ship them in bulk to Canada knowing they will not be redistributed in America, why compete with yourself? if they could then be sold to Americans, guess what, they will no longer be shipped to Canada. bye Bye cheap, regulated drugs, hello more placebos passed off as actual drugs.

[Broken5hift]

Originally Posted by Dave

you pretty much stole my thunder here. excellent work! one other thing id like to add, theres no fda outside of the us. so those drugs may be cheap but who knows wtf is in them or if its even what you are paying for?

9/11 ground zero worker went to cuba for healthcare help after the US wouldnt help her, she got the exact same medicine she uses here in the US that she pays $200 every two weeks for, for free in cuba, box with cool graphics and all.


the main point of the thread was to point out that my opinions before were one sided. seeing the movie and the other one sidedness of things has helped bring me more into a better neutral place of thought and opinion

[mr_eh]

Originally Posted by Broken5hift

9/11 ground zero worker went to cuba for healthcare help after the US wouldnt help her, she got the exact same medicine she uses here in the US that she pays $200 every two weeks for, for free in cuba, box with cool graphics and all.


the main point of the thread was to point out that my opinions before were one sided. seeing the movie and the other one sidedness of things has helped bring me more into a better neutral place of thought and opinion

and because you saw it on film it must be true!

seriously, take all of his movies with a grain of salt, they are for entertainment value. and edited as such...

as much as 9/11 was a conspiracy and he UNCOVERED the truth (lol) what changed?

nothing. he's a little richer. we're a little poorer.

[Broken5hift]

Originally Posted by mr_eh

and because you saw it on film it must be true!

seriously, take all of his movies with a grain of salt, they are for entertainment value. and edited as such...

as much as 9/11 was a conspiracy and he UNCOVERED the truth (lol) what changed?

nothing. he's a little richer. we're a little poorer.

the main point of the thread was to point out that my opinions before were one sided. seeing the movie and the other one sidedness of things has helped bring me more into a better neutral place of thought and opinion

reading works for you. honestly

[BradC]

Originally Posted by wrx_snobordr

I haven't seen it and will not watch it most likely because Moore always only shows one side of the issue.

I have seen snippets of it and he doesn't disappoint. He makes it seem like Canada and the UK are far and away much better than the USA and all we would need to do is adopt one of their systems and we would be fine, but its not even close to the truth.

He avoids how in Britian doctors are essentially Gov employees, they make a salary and have no incentive to work harder. They are actually very close to striking, last I heard, because they are very underpaid. Also, the plan is not all inclusive.

Canada, the wait times are insane, they have 25% fewer doctors per capita who make substantially less money, 25% fewer specialized machines per capita and a tax rate that is near double ours. It doesn't cover dental and doesn't cover all fees either, only 70%.

We cannot cut doctors salaries, the union is way to strong for one and two I don't want a disgruntled doctor working on me, I want them as happy as a pig in ****. We coul raise taxes but that would mean we are going towards a socialized system which means the Gov would have to buy out every major carrier to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars.

Other things I have read he failed to mention were social aspects. He mentioned our infant mortality rate, but did he mention we also have the highest birth rate of mothers out of wedlock and mothers who drink/smoke/do drugs/overeat while pregnant in the world? NO! Huge issue.

He mentioned our life expectancy and how it isn't that great. But did he mention how as Americans we work more, sleep less, smoke more, over eat more, have more gang violence and have more drug use, to name a few unfortunate things that we lead or are close to leading the world in that are causes of death?

A one sided movie does not make a documentary. A documentary shows both sides, weighs all the factors and makes an educated, pragmatic solution. I don't even have to watch the movie to know he did none of these things.

I'm agreeing with Dave that you echoed my thoughts to a T

[Broken5hift]

Originally Posted by wrx_snobordr

I haven't seen it and will not watch it most likely because Moore always only shows one side of the issue.

I have seen snippets of it and he doesn't disappoint. He makes it seem like Canada and the UK are far and away much better than the USA and all we would need to do is adopt one of their systems and we would be fine, but its not even close to the truth.

He avoids how in Britian doctors are essentially Gov employees, they make a salary and have no incentive to work harder. They are actually very close to striking, last I heard, because they are very underpaid. Also, the plan is not all inclusive.

Canada, the wait times are insane, they have 25% fewer doctors per capita who make substantially less money, 25% fewer specialized machines per capita and a tax rate that is near double ours. It doesn't cover dental and doesn't cover all fees either, only 70%.

We cannot cut doctors salaries, the union is way to strong for one and two I don't want a disgruntled doctor working on me, I want them as happy as a pig in ****. We coul raise taxes but that would mean we are going towards a socialized system which means the Gov would have to buy out every major carrier to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars.

Other things I have read he failed to mention were social aspects. He mentioned our infant mortality rate, but did he mention we also have the highest birth rate of mothers out of wedlock and mothers who drink/smoke/do drugs/overeat while pregnant in the world? NO! Huge issue.

He mentioned our life expectancy and how it isn't that great. But did he mention how as Americans we work more, sleep less, smoke more, over eat more, have more gang violence and have more drug use, to name a few unfortunate things that we lead or are close to leading the world in that are causes of death?

A one sided movie does not make a documentary. A documentary shows both sides, weighs all the factors and makes an educated, pragmatic solution. I don't even have to watch the movie to know he did none of these things.

im not saying michael moores movie is the new bible. im just saying it shows that we are on the wrong path and that things could be better. why we arent striving for it is rather depressing imo.

[wrx_snobordr]

Originally Posted by Broken5hift

im not saying michael moores movie is the new bible. im just saying it shows that we are on the wrong path and that things could be better. why we arent striving for it is rather depressing imo.

But striving for what? Universal care? It is not the great program he makes it out to be. It has problems and pitfalls just like we have. Comparing us to Cuba is laughable. They have a fraction of the population we have and still, you need to be in a metro area to receive care. People who live in huts on the outskirts get nothing, they don't have sheets on the beds, if they have beds. Also, its not free, that is a HUGE misconception, it is paid for, just by the gov, aka the people. You either pay for it directly or indirectly, either way, you are still funding it!

[Broken5hift]

Originally Posted by wrx_snobordr

But striving for what? Universal care?

striving for something better than we have now? are you saying what we have now is as good as it could be?

[wrx_snobordr]

Originally Posted by Broken5hift

striving for something better than we have now? are you saying what we have now is as good as it could be?

of course its not as good as it could be, but its also not nearly as bad as he makes it out to be. A few examples for you that you won't hear in his movie. The average American is very satisfied with their medical care. The number of people uninsured, put at 44 million, actually is a stretch of the truth. On average 12 million people are consistently uninsured for over a year. The rest of those 44 million are people may at one point or another not have coverage for one reason or another but are not consistently uninsured. Some may be young, like us, and choose not to enroll. Others may be between jobs or just started a new job and have not yet started the plan and of these 44 million, a large percentage of them are elidgible for Medicare/Medicade but just haven't enrolled.

There are ways to fix what we have. My uncle, who works for a large insurer who will go unnamed, was telling me about one program he is working on. They are going to make network "gift cards". Basically what will happen is this. A normal person, whithout insurance goes to a doctor and pays say 100 bucks. if you buy a "gift card" you have then just bought a $50 credit in that network and can get network rates. So now, you can go visit a doctor but go see him for $25 since you are getting the bulk rate.

[Nors]

Originally Posted by wrx_snobordr

I haven't seen it and will not watch it most likely because Moore always only shows one side of the issue.

Thread over. MM sucks.

[Broken5hift]

no im being serious. the movie helped show that things really can work outside of my AMERICA IS BEST NO MATTER WHAT thinking. i can admit when im wrong. and on this universal healthcare debate, i was wrong.

btw american unions are ****ing retarded. that opinion will never change, EVER.